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View Full Version : McDaniels Future Will be Determined in the Next 6 Months



Ziggy
01-21-2010, 10:58 AM
The offseason is in full swing for our beloved Broncos. Amidst the controversy that continues to swirl around Dove Valley, there are two absolutes.

1. The Broncos absolutely must improve the interior offensive line.
2. The Broncos absolutely must improve the defensive line.

Teams cannot win in the NFL consistently without quality talent and depth in the trenches. Anyone wondering how the New York Jets have worked thier way into the AFC championship game with a rookie head coach and QB? Look no further than thier offensive and defensive lines. Put those 2 lines on any team in the league, and you have a shot at going deep into the playoffs. Why was Minnesota 1 player away from being a serious Super bowl contender? Look no further than the offensive and defensive lines.

The Broncos have exactly 2, arguably 3 solid pieces in place along the offensive and defensive lines. That's 2 or 3 pieces in an 8 piece puzzle. That doesn't work. While you may start the season 6-0 with some luck, good coaching, and smoke and mirrors, the end result will always be exposure and failure. It's been happening in Denver for years. Why? Look no further than the offensive and defensive lines. See a pattern forming here?

The question is, is McDaniels willing to bite the bullet, forgo the sexy draft picks and free agents, and focus on the grinders and bullies that win games? I firmly believe that the approach he takes with the draft and free agency this offseason will either solidify his job security, or earn him an early exit. The Broncos need 2 or 3 starting quality offensive lineman, and 3 starting quality D lineman. I don't expect it all to happen in one offseason, but I do expect a big step to be taken in that direction.

If the Denver Broncos don't enter the 2010 season without at least 3 major upgrades along the LOS, next year will be another year of mediocrity and late season collapse at best. There's no hiding the major deficiencies on this team any longer. Talk all you want about qb's, receivers, rb's, lb'ers and secondary, but they don't win games without having talent in the trenches.

Now, if anyone thinks we can go out and sign Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour and Julius Peppers, it's not going to happen. Guys like that will be either re-signed or franchised. There are some quality lineman in both free agency and the draft that would be major upgrades for us here. Bowlen will have to open the checkbook, and possibly overspend for a few, but he's done it before. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I love my Broncos, but they have truly been insane the over the last decade with thier approach to free agency and the draft. Let's hope that it changes this year.

SoCalImport
01-21-2010, 11:33 AM
Great post. I'm in total agreement with all of it, but the title.
We could all fall in love with changes made and players signed in the off season, but Coach McD's future will be determined by wins and losses next season.

Ziggy
01-21-2010, 11:35 AM
Great post. I'm in total agreement with all of it, but the title.
We could all fall in love with changes made and players signed in the off season, but Coach McD's future will be determined by wins and losses next season.

Thanks. I think Bowlen gives him 3 years regardless, but hopefully we will never have to find out.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-21-2010, 11:42 AM
I'm sure he's going to beef up the trenches, that's all he's talked about so far.

Shazam!
01-21-2010, 12:35 PM
Tch. Barring anything less than a 6 win Season, McDaniels will be here in 2011. Bet on it.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 12:36 PM
Has anyone found any reliable draft predictions for the Broncos?

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-21-2010, 12:38 PM
I hope we draft a NT in the first round, gaurds and a center after that, and then late in the draft take a risk on a QB of the future.

NightTrainLayne
01-21-2010, 12:50 PM
Has anyone found any reliable draft predictions for the Broncos?

I think it's a bit early to get too reliable. Wait and see what we do in free agency. What happens with Marshall, etc.

WARHORSE
01-21-2010, 12:50 PM
The offseason is in full swing for our beloved Broncos. Amidst the controversy that continues to swirl around Dove Valley, there are two absolutes.

1. The Broncos absolutely must improve the interior offensive line.
2. The Broncos absolutely must improve the defensive line.

Teams cannot win in the NFL consistently without quality talent and depth in the trenches. Anyone wondering how the New York Jets have worked thier way into the AFC championship game with a rookie head coach and QB? Look no further than thier offensive and defensive lines. Put those 2 lines on any team in the league, and you have a shot at going deep into the playoffs. Why was Minnesota 1 player away from being a serious Super bowl contender? Look no further than the offensive and defensive lines.

The Broncos have exactly 2, arguably 3 solid pieces in place along the offensive and defensive lines. That's 2 or 3 pieces in an 8 piece puzzle. That doesn't work. While you may start the season 6-0 with some luck, good coaching, and smoke and mirrors, the end result will always be exposure and failure. It's been happening in Denver for years. Why? Look no further than the offensive and defensive lines. See a pattern forming here?

The question is, is McDaniels willing to bite the bullet, forgo the sexy draft picks and free agents, and focus on the grinders and bullies that win games? I firmly believe that the approach he takes with the draft and free agency this offseason will either solidify his job security, or earn him an early exit. The Broncos need 2 or 3 starting quality offensive lineman, and 3 starting quality D lineman. I don't expect it all to happen in one offseason, but I do expect a big step to be taken in that direction.

If the Denver Broncos don't enter the 2010 season without at least 3 major upgrades along the LOS, next year will be another year of mediocrity and late season collapse at best. There's no hiding the major deficiencies on this team any longer. Talk all you want about qb's, receivers, rb's, lb'ers and secondary, but they don't win games without having talent in the trenches.

Now, if anyone thinks we can go out and sign Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour and Julius Peppers, it's not going to happen. Guys like that will be either re-signed or franchised. There are some quality lineman in both free agency and the draft that would be major upgrades for us here. Bowlen will have to open the checkbook, and possibly overspend for a few, but he's done it before. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I love my Broncos, but they have truly been insane the over the last decade with thier approach to free agency and the draft. Let's hope that it changes this year.


As true as true can be.

The JETS Oline drives people five yards off the ball. ANYONE can run behind that line, and anyone can win behind that line.


The good thing is this draft has alot of tackles/olinemen. Use our first rounder at 10 to draft BPA, or trade down. When we get our first and third for Marshall, we use all those picks to draft along the LOS.

WARHORSE
01-21-2010, 12:50 PM
Has anyone found any reliable draft predictions for the Broncos?

Reliable draft predictions?:coffee:

Medford Bronco
01-21-2010, 12:55 PM
Thanks. I think Bowlen gives him 3 years regardless, but hopefully we will never have to find out.

3 years unless next season is 4-12 then he might not last.

I think he must at least by 7-9 or better for year 3.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-21-2010, 12:59 PM
Guys, the Broncos are going 11-5 in 2010 and winning the super bowl.

EastCoastBronco
01-21-2010, 01:03 PM
As true as true can be.

The JETS Oline drives people five yards off the ball. ANYONE can run behind that line, and anyone can win behind that line.


The good thing is this draft has alot of tackles/olinemen. Use our first rounder at 10 to draft BPA, or trade down. When we get our first and third for Marshall, we use all those picks to draft along the LOS.

I wonder how many face palms the Steelers front office has done since letting Faneca go? Guys like him, Jeff Saturday and Hutchison in Minnesota are invaluable. Through their play and then mentorship they are your ties to the future.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 01:04 PM
I think it's a bit early to get too reliable. Wait and see what we do in free agency. What happens with Marshall, etc.

I agree that it is early - just wondered if the projected drafts for the Broncos follow the same as Ziggy stated - OL/DL. I feel, to have an immediate impact on OL/DL, FA would be the better way to go - any good OL/DL FA's available?

Lonestar
01-21-2010, 01:13 PM
There are loses and then there are loses.

I like niether, but losing at home, losing by not showing up mentailly for the game, getting blown out and losing trap games.
Losing a tight game against a quaity team is the other side of the spectrum.

I can deal with the latter a lot easier than the former.

Until we address the NT with someone that can stand tall and not get moved and requires Double/Triple teaming, we will find winning hard to be consistebt at.

On the other side we need at least 2 on the OLINE OLG and center that are big enough to be able to NOT be pushed back into the passing pocket.

Then we also need quality backups for most spots on the LOS both sides.

So will we win it all not likely. We will have a winning season time will tell.

As long as we are making progress from a total rebuild, I think Pat will see him through.

Y'all know they are talking about run blitzes right. NOT blitzing to pressure on QB or sacking him.

BTW the old adage is "live by the blitz die by the blitz."


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Mike
01-21-2010, 01:14 PM
I agree that it is early - just wondered if the projected drafts for the Broncos follow the same as Ziggy stated - OL/DL. I feel, to have an immediate impact on OL/DL, FA would be the better way to go - any good OL/DL FA's available?

Kiper's mock has Denver taking Dez Bryant, WR.

NFL.com's mock has us taking Rolando McClain, ILB.

That's all that I have read so far. Far from reliable though.

Nomad
01-21-2010, 01:18 PM
Kiper's mock has Denver taking Dez Bryant, WR.

NFL.com's mock has us taking Rolando McClain, ILB.

That's all that I have read so far. Far from reliable though.

I like Ziggy's Mock draft in the other forum and I would be especially unhappy with Byrant as the first.

dogfish
01-21-2010, 01:21 PM
Has anyone found any reliable draft predictions for the Broncos?

there's no such thing. . .

Northman
01-21-2010, 01:46 PM
I dont think the next 6 months will determine anything. You have to go by whats done on the field. If he finishes 8-8 or worse next year than the axe might be falling.

dogfish
01-21-2010, 02:06 PM
I dont think the next 6 months will determine anything. You have to go by whats done on the field. If he finishes 8-8 or worse next year than the axe might be falling.

so you don't agree with ziggy's premise that whether or not we add more talent in the trenches is likely to determine how competitive we are?


i certainly wouldn't say that it's written in stone, because it never is-- and it's at least conceivable that we could add a lot of skill position upgrades (QB would be the obvious choice here, if we were somehow to acquire a quality vet) and, along with continued development of existing talent and improved familiarity with scheme, manage to win another game or two next year. . .

however, i think he's probably right. . . defensive linemen in particular tend to take time to develop, and even OLs need to build continuity and familiarity. . . if mcD doesn't lay the foundation for future success THIS offseason, there's a very decent chance that when (if) he does decide to get serious about addressing it, he may be putting pieces in place for the next coach. . .

i'd say that waiting too long to rebuild the lines was one of shanahan's main failures. . . he picked three prospective DLs in '07, and if they'd panned out he'd probably still be the coach of the broncos-- but when they didn't, he ended up not being here long enough to try again. . . he did leave josh a real nice pair of bookend offensive tackles, though. . .

e-Lou-sive1
01-21-2010, 02:12 PM
I to was mislead by the title thinking someone had some insight to what has transpired the last few days.Mc D has his work cut out for him not only with draft choices but free agents as well ,If he is smart he will already have something in the works and weighing his choices.He needs to get a high draft pick or an outstanding FA that
becomes available to get nothing out of the deal and let Marshall and Scheffler walk away would be ridiculous just because he has given up on them.I would rather acquire a Pro Bowl seasoned player than to pick up a rookie draft pick and hope to work him the rotation which could take a year for him to understand the system.I have a feeling some big name players will be dumped and with the new FA rule I see our chances better than average picking up someone that would compliment what we already have on offense/defense.Mc D knows he has to get it right this time If he wants a contract extension to which he can build his dynasty otherwise he might never get another HC opportunity.

Lonestar
01-21-2010, 02:29 PM
so you don't agree with ziggy's premise that whether or not we add more talent in the trenches is likely to determine how competitive we are?


i certainly wouldn't say that it's written in stone, because it never is-- and it's at least conceivable that we could add a lot of skill position upgrades (QB would be the obvious choice here, if we were somehow to acquire a quality vet) and, along with continued development of existing talent and improved familiarity with scheme, manage to win another game or two next year. . .

however, i think he's probably right. . . defensive linemen in particular tend to take time to develop, and even OLs need to build continuity and familiarity. . . if mcD doesn't lay the foundation for future success THIS offseason, there's a very decent chance that when (if) he does decide to get serious about addressing it, he may be putting pieces in place for the next coach. . .

i'd say that waiting too long to rebuild the lines was one of shanahan's main failures. . . he picked three prospective DLs in '07, and if they'd panned out he'd probably still be the coach of the broncos-- but when they didn't, he ended up not being here long enough to try again. . . he did leave josh a real nice pair of bookend offensive tackles, though. . .


pretty good post . let me add that WAS mike downfall, not drafting any I repeat and day one picks on the DL since price.that IIRC was 1997 or 8. that is a very long time.

As for OLINE he thought he could live with the ZBS and featherweight players forever not realizing that other teams would start to Defense it as more and more teams came online with it.

He did not plan for the future except for his vision of the O, and by almost completely ignoring the D except for LB's, it was an EPIC fail for the team.

He wanted to win with aging, expensive FA that got him just good enough each year to allow him to get off with the "we are one or two players away" routine he did for 5-6 years.

We had virtually NO depth on this squad for the longest time. and had 10-35 million each year tied up in dead cap space.

I like the tact that Josh is taking grabbing some leaders for the locker room and drafting their replacements last year. now lets see how he does this offseason and shoring up areas OG, C that we ALL thought were golden last year. and the NT and maybe 1 DE that we ALL knew we had an issues with LIKE FOREVER.

I do not believe we need 3 replacement starters for the DL, because if we get one stud and one studette there the OLINE will have to double team them and that will improve the other DE enough to make it vialble for the year thus being able to not allow OG to slid into the LB area and engage them consistently.

so of we can get a biggie OG in rounds 2-4 he very well could start if we get a veteran center next to him that would also improve Kuper and IF Harris comes back stronger this OLINE could be damned fine.

But that does not address backups which IMO we need big time. so look for more OG/OT back ups to be drafted in later rounds.

as for NT I think we need to get one with number 1 and the other 2-4 that is left over.

Same goes for DE maybe the #2 pick if they do not use it for OG. I believe the existing DL players could make for pretty good back ups let the competition begin. I would hope that Baker would make it in the mix as his run stopping in college was almost record breaking IIRC. NOw can he play in the NFL I'm not sure.

Ziggy
01-21-2010, 03:52 PM
I agree that it is early - just wondered if the projected drafts for the Broncos follow the same as Ziggy stated - OL/DL. I feel, to have an immediate impact on OL/DL, FA would be the better way to go - any good OL/DL FA's available?

Carol, I'll be making a thread soon in the draft/FA forum that lists the top lineman available in the upcoming draft/ free agency period.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 04:42 PM
My thinking is in line with yours, Ziggy (no pun intended).

I believe the Broncos have 3 solid pieces on the OL: Clady, Harris, and Kuper.
We all, I'm sure, hoping Seth Olsen turns into a fourth. To pick up an Iupati
and/or a Pouncey would be a windfall.

I believe the DL is a bit of a jigsaw puzzle. Many of the pieces are already there,
IMO, but not yet assembled correctly. Fields has done a credible, but not
outstanding, job at NT, but he may be a better DE, where he would be
considered large (as opposed to light at NT), and he could use his quickness.
Same with Marcus Thomas, who I believe has yet to show his best wares . . .
he belongs at DE, IMO.

Chris Baker has been waiting in the wings, and when he shows he is ready to
do some damage, he could back up NT well, while busting heads at DE
because of his own quickness. Another player who many feel will develop into
an outstanding DE is McBean, who has quietly been improving.

It is my belief the Broncos should go after Green Bay's Ryan Pickett with
everything in their arsenal . . . and the Pack may be somewhat vulnerable
there because they have to pay Raji . . . and it would be a coup to also land
Johnny Jolly, but getting both would not seem feasible.

But just imagine: an OL of Clady (325), Iupati (330), Pouncey (330), Kuper
(305), and Harris (300 but plays like 320). Hochstein and Olsen would provide
quality depth.

A DL of Pickett (NT 330), Fields (DE 314), and Baker (DE 329) or Thomas (DE
316), backed by McBean and Peterson (who also did a credible but journeyman
job and would be good as a backup).

In that admittedly idealistic arrangement, the Broncos would still need a
backup OT (Polumbus has to go) and a couple good journeyman defensive
linemen.

To me, once below the surface, it begins to appear doable . . .

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 04:46 PM
It is my belief the Broncos should go after Green Bay's Ryan Pickett with
everything in their arsenal . . . and the Pack may be somewhat vulnerable
their because they have to pay Raji . . . and it would be a coup to also land
Johnny Jolly, but getting both would not seem feasible.

-----

Pickett is the ticket! If we can only sign one big-time FA this offseason, it's either him or Wilfork (if he becomes available). If we're making the 3-4 the staple in Denver, we have to solidify the NT position.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 04:52 PM
Pickett is the ticket! If we can only sign one big-time FA this offseason, it's either him or Wilfork (if he becomes available). If we're making the 3-4 the staple in Denver, we have to solidify the NT position.

Thanks for the response. I just noticed I misspelled "there." :redface:

But I like that slogan: Pickett is the ticket!

Maybe whip up some picketing signs . . . whoa, we have a real play on words going here . . . :laugh:

-----

Northman
01-21-2010, 05:31 PM
so you don't agree with ziggy's premise that whether or not we add more talent in the trenches is likely to determine how competitive we are?


i certainly wouldn't say that it's written in stone, because it never is-- and it's at least conceivable that we could add a lot of skill position upgrades (QB would be the obvious choice here, if we were somehow to acquire a quality vet) and, along with continued development of existing talent and improved familiarity with scheme, manage to win another game or two next year. . .

however, i think he's probably right. . . defensive linemen in particular tend to take time to develop, and even OLs need to build continuity and familiarity. . . if mcD doesn't lay the foundation for future success THIS offseason, there's a very decent chance that when (if) he does decide to get serious about addressing it, he may be putting pieces in place for the next coach. . .

i'd say that waiting too long to rebuild the lines was one of shanahan's main failures. . . he picked three prospective DLs in '07, and if they'd panned out he'd probably still be the coach of the broncos-- but when they didn't, he ended up not being here long enough to try again. . . he did leave josh a real nice pair of bookend offensive tackles, though. . .


No. I dont.

Look at what happened last year. Everyone thought we would be 4-12. Ive seen it plenty of times when a team looks bad or good on paper and then they do a direct reversal. So, if we sign big names or draftees for the interior lines that doesnt guarantee anything. We can speculate (my new favorite word around here) all day long about how it MIGHT be. But at the end of the day its about what happens on the field. The fact that dipshit couldnt even use the ZBS this year is proof enough of that. :lol:

Ziggy
01-21-2010, 05:52 PM
No. I dont.

Look at what happened last year. Everyone thought we would be 4-12. Ive seen it plenty of times when a team looks bad or good on paper and then they do a direct reversal. So, if we sign big names or draftees for the interior lines that doesnt guarantee anything. We can speculate (my new favorite word around here) all day long about how it MIGHT be. But at the end of the day its about what happens on the field. The fact that dipshit couldnt even use the ZBS this year is proof enough of that. :lol:

Because the ZBS has worked so well in the red zone for the last decade? If you don't understand where games are really won, then there's no reasoning with you.

Ziggy
01-21-2010, 05:53 PM
Pickett is a solid NT, but the Pack will do everything they can to keep him. A second option would be Aubrayo Franklin of the 49'ers. He was also underrated this season, and did a great job at holding up along the LOS.

Northman
01-21-2010, 05:55 PM
Because the ZBS has worked so well in the red zone for the last decade? If you don't understand where games are really won, then there's no reasoning with you.

With the players we have the ZBS worked to their abilities. If you dont know what kind of players you have to work with than your really dont know football. Stick that in your ******* pipe.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 07:11 PM
Pickett is a solid NT, but the Pack will do everything they can to keep him. A second option would be Aubrayo Franklin of the 49'ers. He was also underrated this season, and did a great job at holding up along the LOS.

I don't know if they'll do "everything they can" which means "pay him a lot of money". They just spent a high 1st round pick on a NT (Raji) in last years draft. I doubt they'll spend that much on just the NT position (pay for two starters).

topscribe
01-21-2010, 07:18 PM
Pickett is a solid NT, but the Pack will do everything they can to keep him. A second option would be Aubrayo Franklin of the 49'ers. He was also underrated this season, and did a great job at holding up along the LOS.

True, the Pack will do everything they can do, but how much can they do? How
much money do they want wrapped up in one position? That's why I believe, if
the Broncos do everything they can, they have more to do it with than the Pack.

Plus, Pickett is looking at a backup role now, and he's still starting material. He
just might be developing a wandering eye . . .

-----

Ziggy
01-21-2010, 07:26 PM
Raji plays DE on running downs and NT on passing downs, so they're not really tying all the money up in one position. I hope you're both right though, and they let him walk.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 07:52 PM
Raji plays DE on running downs and NT on passing downs, so they're not really tying all the money up in one position. I hope you're both right though, and they let him walk.

Oh, I don't expect the Packers to allow Pickett just to walk. But they have only
so much ammunition to work with. I think the Broncos have more. The advantage
the Pack has is incumbency: Pickett is already a Packer, and players don't
really usually like to change colors, all things being equal. The advantage the
Broncos may have is that Pickett knows he's #2 on that line now, and that he
would be #1 on Denver's. So Denver would have those advantages and the
money.

At least, that looks like a likely scenario. But we both know it doesn't always
work out like on paper . . .

-----

dogfish
01-21-2010, 08:28 PM
we'll see if the packers are willing to spend the cash the retain both pickett and DE johnny jolly-- i'm guessing they may want to choose between the two since they just invested so much in raji. . . either one would be a solid addition, and jolly is younger than pickett. . . franklin reportedly played very well this year, but i would think the niners will push hard to re-sign him-- and i'm not at all convinced that bowlen wants to get in any bidding wars right now. . .

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 08:49 PM
and i'm not at all convinced that bowlen wants to get in any bidding wars right now. . .

With the way it looks at Dove Valley these days, if McDaniels tells Bowlen he wants a guy, Bowlen will probably open the check book.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 09:59 PM
G Mike Iupati
C Maurkice Pouncey
DE Arthur Jones

I think we'd be in business if we could somehow draft all 3 of those guys

Lonestar
01-21-2010, 11:03 PM
Oh, I don't expect the Packers to allow Pickett just to walk. But they have only
so much ammunition to work with. I think the Broncos have more. The advantage
the Pack has is incumbency: Pickett is already a Packer, and players don't
really usually like to change colors, all things being equal. The advantage the
Broncos may have is that Pickett knows he's #2 on that line now, and that he
would be #1 on Denver's. So Denver would have those advantages and the
money.

At least, that looks like a likely scenario. But we both know it doesn't always
work out like on paper . . .

-----

Hey if is me I'm out of the ice box where your guaranteed to freeze your ass off playing, practicing in 5-8 games year, if not more with the bear on the agenda. Come to play in DEN where it might be only 2-3 games including KC. it really freezes in SAN or OAK.

we all know that he will be a HOT commodity for most other teams also. But the Pack can't tie up to much money in him.

TXBRONC
01-22-2010, 01:03 PM
3 years unless next season is 4-12 then he might not last.

I think he must at least by 7-9 or better for year 3.

I don't think McDaniels can go 8-8 or worse and not be on the hot seat.

Superchop 7
01-22-2010, 07:50 PM
Beefing up the lines is "definately" the smartest way to go.

Broncolingus
01-22-2010, 08:09 PM
....there are two absolutes.

1. The Broncos absolutely must improve the interior offensive line.
2. The Broncos absolutely must improve the defensive line.



Great Post, Zig...:salute: Couldn't agree more...

BTW, this is something that many (most) who've been here for a while have been saying year, after year, after year, after year...

Superchop 7
01-22-2010, 08:43 PM
Brandon Carter just jumped from FA to 6th round. (pats self on back)

John Jerry is in the 4th rd,

According to Walters, we pick Canfield in the 3rd......just missing on Snead (who also jumped up the board and goes to the Bills)

Taylor Mays jumped back into the 1st round. (switching to 4-3 this year messed him up)

They have Brandon Spikes sitting pretty in the 2nd

Cody is also sitting pretty around pick 25

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 04:54 PM
The offseason is in full swing for our beloved Broncos. Amidst the controversy that continues to swirl around Dove Valley, there are two absolutes.

1. The Broncos absolutely must improve the interior offensive line.
2. The Broncos absolutely must improve the defensive line.

Teams cannot win in the NFL consistently without quality talent and depth in the trenches. Anyone wondering how the New York Jets have worked thier way into the AFC championship game with a rookie head coach and QB? Look no further than thier offensive and defensive lines. Put those 2 lines on any team in the league, and you have a shot at going deep into the playoffs. Why was Minnesota 1 player away from being a serious Super bowl contender? Look no further than the offensive and defensive lines.

The Broncos have exactly 2, arguably 3 solid pieces in place along the offensive and defensive lines. That's 2 or 3 pieces in an 8 piece puzzle. That doesn't work. While you may start the season 6-0 with some luck, good coaching, and smoke and mirrors, the end result will always be exposure and failure. It's been happening in Denver for years. Why? Look no further than the offensive and defensive lines. See a pattern forming here?

The question is, is McDaniels willing to bite the bullet, forgo the sexy draft picks and free agents, and focus on the grinders and bullies that win games? I firmly believe that the approach he takes with the draft and free agency this offseason will either solidify his job security, or earn him an early exit. The Broncos need 2 or 3 starting quality offensive lineman, and 3 starting quality D lineman. I don't expect it all to happen in one offseason, but I do expect a big step to be taken in that direction.

If the Denver Broncos don't enter the 2010 season without at least 3 major upgrades along the LOS, next year will be another year of mediocrity and late season collapse at best. There's no hiding the major deficiencies on this team any longer. Talk all you want about qb's, receivers, rb's, lb'ers and secondary, but they don't win games without having talent in the trenches.

Now, if anyone thinks we can go out and sign Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour and Julius Peppers, it's not going to happen. Guys like that will be either re-signed or franchised. There are some quality lineman in both free agency and the draft that would be major upgrades for us here. Bowlen will have to open the checkbook, and possibly overspend for a few, but he's done it before. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I love my Broncos, but they have truly been insane the over the last decade with thier approach to free agency and the draft. Let's hope that it changes this year.

Now that the bulk of free agency and the draft are over, I'm bumping this thread. Has McD adressed the trenches like we said he had to?
1. Jamal Williams
2. Jarvis Green
3. Justin Bannan
4. Zane Beadles
6. JD Walton
7. Eric Olsen
8. 1st round tender on Chris Kuper
9. Matt McChesney
10. Dustin Frye

You tell me.

Lancane
04-25-2010, 04:58 PM
The fact that Bowlen allowed McDaniels to draft a franchise quarterback, let alone one of the most controversial quarterbacks as such, tells me that Bowlen is likely to give him the full four years...even if we went 1-15 I believe McDaniels would be given the full length of his tenure.

Tned
04-25-2010, 05:44 PM
The fact that Bowlen allowed McDaniels to draft a franchise quarterback, let alone one of the most controversial quarterbacks as such, tells me that Bowlen is likely to give him the full four years...even if we went 1-15 I believe McDaniels would be given the full length of his tenure.

I think if Bowlen has bought into the tear it down and rebuild it "my way" (McDaniels way) than he has to understand it will take some time and might give him time, no matter how bad we are this year.

When he fired Shanahan, he said we weren't too far away from getting back to the promised land, but that clearly wasn't based on turning over almost the entire roster, including trading Cutler and Marshll, the two biggest stars on the team.

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 06:03 PM
I think if Bowlen has bought into the tear it down and rebuild it "my way" (McDaniels way) than he has to understand it will take some time and might give him time, no matter how bad we are this year.

When he fired Shanahan, he said we weren't too far away from getting back to the promised land, but that clearly wasn't based on turning over almost the entire roster, including trading Cutler and Marshll, the two biggest stars on the team.

are you serious?

pat would not have brought in a NE model Rookie HC if he thought we were a few players away.

I'm sure he thought that Josh could make both jay and marshall into model players as he had a lot of success as QB, OC coaching in NE.

YOU can bet your ass that Josh told him what had to be done on this team before he took the job, and I'm sure that included making it a TEAM first mentality with few if any ME players.

Pat may not have gotten the full picture in this but you can bet that Joe Ellis Knew what was coming down the pike.

They did not status quo on O and to ONLY fix the D.

DID Pat realize the jay was going to become the consummate cry baby and force the owner to trade him. I'm sure not be those became the facts of life. Soon after he was brought into tow, or just maybe right after mike was fred for failing to turn the team around.

I often wonder if Josh would have taken another job if he would have known that jay and BM were going to be DICKS about losing the ME first and wanting to join the TEAM.

Mr D
04-25-2010, 06:03 PM
*looks at thread title*

*realizes OP brings nothing new and pretty much repeating what the whole world and media is saying*

*shakes head in disgust at how far off base from reality these people are*

underrated29
04-25-2010, 06:07 PM
I think if Bowlen has bought into the tear it down and rebuild it "my way" (McDaniels way) than he has to understand it will take some time and might give him time, no matter how bad we are this year.

When he fired Shanahan, he said we weren't too far away from getting back to the promised land, but that clearly wasn't based on turning over almost the entire roster, including trading Cutler and Marshll, the two biggest stars on the team.




Why does everyone think we will be bad this year???

This is the 2nd thing that baffles me.


Last year with a new everything and a tough ass schedule we went 8-8.

This year, we have exp. a new solid OL and a much much much easier schedule. I see not doubt that we end up 11-5. 10-6 at worst. I think we start out at .500 but then go on a 6 game win streak to finish out the season. Possibly even better depending on how thomas,decker and tebers play.

Tned
04-25-2010, 06:15 PM
are you serious?

pat would not have brought in a NE model Rookie HC if he thought we were a few players away.

I'm sure he thought that Josh could make both jay and marshall into model players as he had a lot of success as QB, OC coaching in NE.

YOU can bet your ass that Josh told him what had to be done on this team before he took the job, and I'm sure that included making it a TEAM first mentality with few if any ME players.

Pat may not have gotten the full picture in this but you can bet that Joe Ellis Knew what was coming down the pike.

They did not status quo on O and to ONLY fix the D.

DID Pat realize the jay was going to become the consummate cry baby and force the owner to trade him. I'm sure not be those became the facts of life. Soon after he was brought into tow, or just maybe right after mike was fred for failing to turn the team around.

I often wonder if Josh would have taken another job if he would have known that jay and BM were going to be DICKS about losing the ME first and wanting to join the TEAM.

If I wasn't serious I wouldn't have posted it.

Bowlen also said that the new headcoach wouldn't have all the power, that GB duties would be separated. Than, he fires the Goodmans and puts Xanders in control, which we can all see is a similar arrangment to when Shanahan called all the shots.

Bowlen said that we weren't that far away from competing. Do you honestly believe he was talking about gutting the entire team and starting over when he said that? Do you 'seriously' believe that?

As to Jay, your inner hate for him is showing once again. He didn't become a cry baby until McDaniels tried to trade for the one year wonder, Cassel. If you want to go down that rode again, I'm all for it, if not, let it go, man...

Tned
04-25-2010, 06:17 PM
Why does everyone think we will be bad this year???

This is the 2nd thing that baffles me.


Last year with a new everything and a tough ass schedule we went 8-8.

This year, we have exp. a new solid OL and a much much much easier schedule. I see not doubt that we end up 11-5. 10-6 at worst. I think we start out at .500 but then go on a 6 game win streak to finish out the season. Possibly even better depending on how thomas,decker and tebers play.

I have never said we would be bad this year. I was simply responding to my thought on where Bowlen's expectations are and whether or not McDaniels would still be around if we had a horrible year.

OrangeHoof
04-25-2010, 06:34 PM
It wasn't offense that won those first six games, it was defense. People didn't know what the Broncos were going to do in a 3-4 until they had some film. Once they figured us out, the season went downhill. I wouldn't judge last season by the 8-8 record, but the 2-8 finish. Was there a major injury that caused our defense's decline or were we simply exposed and the rest of the league learned from it?

So, we replace last year's retreads on the DL with this year's retreads. This is an upgrade? I remain unconvinced.

But on offense, this team is going to really struggle in 2010 unless these young lineman step up in a big hurry. No Marshall, no Scheffler. I see major problems moving the ball.

Broncolingus
04-25-2010, 06:40 PM
McDaniels Future Will be Determined in the Next 6 Months

I think Tebow (barring any miracle) will be more than a year...

...I can't even venture a guess as to what the Donkey's will be like this year until after camp and who's on the field at the start of the season.

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 07:32 PM
*looks at thread title*

*realizes OP brings nothing new and pretty much repeating what the whole world and media is saying*

*shakes head in disgust at how far off base from reality these people are*

The only reality on a sports forum is that your opinion is no more or less important than anyone elses. If you don't like what you're reading, feel free to move on.

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
It wasn't offense that won those first six games, it was defense. People didn't know what the Broncos were going to do in a 3-4 until they had some film. Once they figured us out, the season went downhill. I wouldn't judge last season by the 8-8 record, but the 2-8 finish. Was there a major injury that caused our defense's decline or were we simply exposed and the rest of the league learned from it?

So, we replace last year's retreads on the DL with this year's retreads. This is an upgrade? I remain unconvinced.

But on offense, this team is going to really struggle in 2010 unless these young lineman step up in a big hurry. No Marshall, no Scheffler. I see major problems moving the ball.

Last year's starters on the Dline are all likely to be backups at best to more talented players this season. That's not an upgrade in your book?

jhildebrand
04-25-2010, 07:37 PM
The only reality on a sports forum is that your opinion is no more or less important than anyone elses. If you don't like what you're reading, feel free to move on.

This should be repeated in every thread!

We are all going off of our own opinions and views here. If any one of us actually knew what we were talking about, we would be on the sidelines or front office at some competitive level i.e. College or Pros.

jhildebrand
04-25-2010, 07:41 PM
Why does everyone think we will be bad this year???

This is the 2nd thing that baffles me.


Last year with a new everything and a tough ass schedule we went 8-8.

This year, we have exp. a new solid OL and a much much much easier schedule. I see not doubt that we end up 11-5. 10-6 at worst. I think we start out at .500 but then go on a 6 game win streak to finish out the season. Possibly even better depending on how thomas,decker and tebers play.

I think for many, myself included, finishing the season 2-8 doesn't bode well and can easily carry into this season. Now there is even more turnover. 9 of 11 starters on D are well into their 30's. We couldn't even sweep KC and Oak last year. Couldn't beat Washington. KC and Oakland did far more to improve their teams. There is a lot to point to. Luckily that is why they play the games :D

Northman
04-25-2010, 07:46 PM
I think for many, myself included, finishing the season 2-8 doesn't bode well and can easily carry into this season. Now there is even more turnover. 9 of 11 starters on D are well into their 30's. We couldn't even sweep KC and Oak last year. Couldn't beat Washington. KC and Oakland did far more to improve their teams. There is a lot to point to. Luckily that is why they play the games :D

Aside from the chemistry thing you pointed out which plays a MAJOR role into why this team has struggled for the last what? 4-5 years? Different coaches, different QB's, different water boys, etc. This team needs to settle in on who the starters are, let them play and build chemistry otherwise it will just be an never ending cycle of mediocrity like it has been. Now add that we still have to contend with the division leader SD with K.C and Oakland now improving their teams it will make things far more difficult than people want to admit. For me, its playoffs or bust this year. The grace period is over and we should be making progress now.

underrated29
04-25-2010, 07:54 PM
It wasn't offense that won those first six games, it was defense. People didn't know what the Broncos were going to do in a 3-4 until they had some film. Once they figured us out, the season went downhill. I wouldn't judge last season by the 8-8 record, but the 2-8 finish. Was there a major injury that caused our defense's decline or were we simply exposed and the rest of the league learned from it?

So, we replace last year's retreads on the DL with this year's retreads. This is an upgrade? I remain unconvinced.

But on offense, this team is going to really struggle in 2010 unless these young lineman step up in a big hurry. No Marshall, no Scheffler. I see major problems moving the ball.




While I do agree this played a part in the decline. Teams getting film on us. I think the most important part of the schedule was during the 2-8 run. That was the hardest part.


If you do not believe me, you can go back and look, but I posted that before the season started I thought we would start out 6-0 and our first loss was to Balt and then we would only win 3 more games. Obviously I was not exactly right in my prediction, but my reasoning was we had TOUGH teams during the 2-8 stretch. Balt,Pit,Indy,Bolts,KC in KC, WAS, PHILLY, etc....Thats tough. And we hung in there in the phily, indy,was games.



Next year we will do much better. Watch and see.

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 08:08 PM
How many years have the Broncos faded in the 2nd half of the season? It wasn't a new thing that came about last season. It's been going on for the better part of a decade. This team has been soft. There's no other way to put it. The whole point of this thread was to discuss whether or not McD would make changing it a priority. I think he has, and will continue to do so. It can't be done overnight, but I think we're headed in the right direction.

Tned
04-25-2010, 08:39 PM
How many years have the Broncos faded in the 2nd half of the season? It wasn't a new thing that came about last season. It's been going on for the better part of a decade. This team has been soft. There's no other way to put it. The whole point of this thread was to discuss whether or not McD would make changing it a priority. I think he has, and will continue to do so. It can't be done overnight, but I think we're headed in the right direction.

What's wierd is that about 1/2 of the starters were replaced and more than half of the roster, virtually the entire coaching staff replaced, but the team followed the same fast start, back end collapse it has for years.

Ravage!!!
04-25-2010, 08:42 PM
I was told that the much more "intense" training camps and hard practices were going to keep us from fading. That the "shanahan" easy camps and fading was gone.

But its just the same ol' thing. Seems that maybe it wasn't this "soft camps" that so many people hitched their wagon too.

Shazam!
04-25-2010, 08:44 PM
"McDaniels Future Will be Determined in the Next 6 Months"

I agree Denver must get better up front on both sides, but unless the Broncos fail epicly, he'll be back in 2011.

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 08:46 PM
What's wierd is that about 1/2 of the starters were replaced and more than half of the roster, virtually the entire coaching staff replaced, but the team followed the same fast start, back end collapse it has for years.

Why does that seem wierd? McD didn't even have a full offseason to replace Shanny's guys with his own. He changed some out, but didn't have a lot to choose from. Sometimes we have to make changes, without being able to make changes with the resources we want to. When that happens, we can't always expect the desired results right away. Now that he has had 2 drafts and free agent seasons, I expect some change. Still, not a complete turnaround, but a step or 2 in the right direction.

Tned
04-25-2010, 08:50 PM
Why does that seem wierd? McD didn't even have a full offseason to replace Shanny's guys with his own. He changed some out, but didn't have a lot to choose from. Sometimes we have to make changes, without being able to make changes with the resources we want to. When that happens, we can't always expect the desired results right away. Now that he has had 2 drafts and free agent seasons, I expect some change. Still, not a complete turnaround, but a step or 2 in the right direction.

As I said, half of the starters were new, over half the overall roster, virtually all of the coaching staff, the TC regimen, weekly practices, etc.

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 08:54 PM
As I said, half of the starters were new, over half the overall roster, virtually all of the coaching staff, the TC regimen, weekly practices, etc.

I see what you're saying. I guess I assumed it was as much of a talent and size problem as anything.

Tned
04-25-2010, 08:58 PM
I see what you're saying. I guess I assumed it was as much of a talent and size problem as anything.

Maybe, but there are lots of other teams that lack talent, but they don't start 6-0, 6-1, 5-1, 5-2, etc. on such a consistant basis, before fading down the stretch. They simply struggle all year long.

Size, that's obviously a possibility. The small, fast defense and line could fade in the second half. But, we did upgrade in size at most of our undersized positions.

Ravage!!!
04-25-2010, 08:59 PM
I think it has to do with the training in the thin air. I think that it wears on the body as the seasong goes, and its a disadvantage that we naturally have.

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 09:58 PM
If I wasn't serious I wouldn't have posted it.

Bowlen also said that the new headcoach wouldn't have all the power, that GB duties would be separated. Than, he fires the Goodmans and puts Xanders in control, which we can all see is a similar arrangment to when Shanahan called all the shots.

Bowlen said that we weren't that far away from competing. Do you honestly believe he was talking about gutting the entire team and starting over when he said that? Do you 'seriously' believe that?

As to Jay, your inner hate for him is showing once again. He didn't become a cry baby until McDaniels tried to trade for the one year wonder, Cassel. If you want to go down that rode again, I'm all for it, if not, let it go, man...

So did Josh twist his arm to et this power back or just maybe Pat changed his mind and allowed it to happen.

Pat is a savvy Buisness man and I suspect when he originally said it he was leery of giving "total control to moon guy.

PLus IIRC Xman is the GM and both he, Josh and Joe Ellis report directly to Pat.

But then I might have missed the memo that Josh has total control after goodmans were fired because they meddled in others affairs that were not in their perview.

If you saw that please by alll means send me a copy.

The only thing I have heard even remotely detrimental from Pat about Josh was his comment after last years draft saying that we made some rookie mistakes.

Now if there were more please I'd like to hear about them also.

Tempus Fugit
04-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Maybe, but there are lots of other teams that lack talent, but they don't start 6-0, 6-1, 5-1, 5-2, etc. on such a consistant basis, before fading down the stretch. They simply struggle all year long.

Size, that's obviously a possibility. The small, fast defense and line could fade in the second half. But, we did upgrade in size at most of our undersized positions.

When teams figure out that your 3-4 NT can't stop the run, the jig is up.

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 10:07 PM
I think for many, myself included, finishing the season 2-8 doesn't bode well and can easily carry into this season. Now there is even more turnover. 9 of 11 starters on D are well into their 30's. We couldn't even sweep KC and Oak last year. Couldn't beat Washington. KC and Oakland did far more to improve their teams. There is a lot to point to. Luckily that is why they play the games :D


Please tell me why being in your 30's is a problem?

For the most part those that are or near 30 are not an issue. Most of them play at the LOS and those like Champ and Dawkins have learned enough that being in the right spot when you need to be often wins over pure speed.

It is not like Williams is the ONLY guy out there that can play NT now he has a couple three gigs that can and WILL spell him. BTW he missed about half of last year on IR whicH i'm told is not a problem and he has fresh legs again.

last year we had a "rookie" NT that was a back up in SFO who had never played 3-4 before coming to OTAs last year. not to mention he was about 40 pounds smaller than the average NT in the NFL.

Lonestar
04-25-2010, 10:12 PM
I was told that the much more "intense" training camps and hard practices were going to keep us from fading. That the "shanahan" easy camps and fading was gone.

But its just the same ol' thing. Seems that maybe it wasn't this "soft camps" that so many people hitched their wagon too.


That was what they thought and now have modified that regimen to address that . NEXT?

You really do not think that mike the groin pull shanahan had a better better idea with Club Dove Valley do you?

When an all pro CB comes to camp and has to work out with the fatties until he can meet the new guys standards I guess he was TO used to CDV.

Tned
04-25-2010, 10:14 PM
When teams figure out that your 3-4 NT can't stop the run, the jig is up.

Just to help you catch up, since you sometimes seem to have trouble following the topic of the conversation, was why the 2009 team followed the same fast start, and late fade as the last five or so Shanny teams. None of the Shanny teams had 3-4 NT's.

Mr D
04-25-2010, 10:16 PM
The only reality on a sports forum is that your opinion is no more or less important than anyone elses. If you don't like what you're reading, feel free to move on.

Nice way to respond to one line of my post - so you admit that you're bringing nothing new and pretty much repeating what the rest of the world is saying?

Cool, we agree on something. :lol:

Ziggy
04-25-2010, 10:25 PM
Nice way to respond to one line of my post - so you admit that you're bringing nothing new and pretty much repeating what the rest of the world is saying?

Cool, we agree on something. :lol:

The rest of your post wasn't worth responding to, and still isn't.

Tned
04-25-2010, 10:27 PM
So did Josh twist his arm to et this power back or just maybe Pat changed his mind and allowed it to happen.

Pat is a savvy Buisness man and I suspect when he originally said it he was leery of giving "total control to moon guy.

PLus IIRC Xman is the GM and both he, Josh and Joe Ellis report directly to Pat.

But then I might have missed the memo that Josh has total control after goodmans were fired because they meddled in others affairs that were not in their perview.

If you saw that please by alll means send me a copy.

The only thing I have heard even remotely detrimental from Pat about Josh was his comment after last years draft saying that we made some rookie mistakes.

Now if there were more please I'd like to hear about them also.

Ok, I am going to try and weave my way through all your sarcastic drivel to understand the points you are trying to make.

Are you saying that you believe that there is a clear separation in duties, like Bowlen said there would be, and that McDaniels is nothing more than the HC, and that Xanders makes all personnel and football operation decisions as a fully empowered GM would do?

Ravage!!!
04-25-2010, 10:34 PM
That was what they thought and now have modified that regimen to address that . NEXT?

You really do not think that mike the groin pull shanahan had a better better idea with Club Dove Valley do you?

When an all pro CB comes to camp and has to work out with the fatties until he can meet the new guys standards I guess he was TO used to CDV.

Uhmmm..yeah...... keep making all your excuses :lol:

Ignore the fact that McD had one of the biggest cliff falls in NFL history, and blame that on more of your nicknames

Tempus Fugit
04-25-2010, 11:10 PM
Just to help you catch up, since you sometimes seem to have trouble following the topic of the conversation, was why the 2009 team followed the same fast start, and late fade as the last five or so Shanny teams. None of the Shanny teams had 3-4 NT's.

1.) As a moderator, why do you feel it's your duty to continually make these stupid personal cracks? I don't mind them, as long as you're not going to play the victim again when I respond in kind, as you've done in the past, but I would love to know why you do it. Also, we should probably make sure that Atwater reads your post, so he'll have a better understanding of why I was such a "pit bull" in that other thread.

2.) I understand full well that they didn't run the 3-4 in the past. That would make since, since they were changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4. My post was about last year. You know, the one being compared to earlier seasons in the thread pattern I was responding to. Teams began destroying the Broncos on the ground because they realized that the Broncos didn't have the NT to slow them down (there was more to it than that, but that simplification should have been enough for the sort of throw away line I posted). That's a big part of why 6-0 became 8-8, and it was something I talked about on this site before the season even began.

BroncoWave
04-25-2010, 11:29 PM
Nice way to respond to one line of my post - so you admit that you're bringing nothing new and pretty much repeating what the rest of the world is saying?

Cool, we agree on something. :lol:

Dude, what is your deal? If you don't like the thread, get the **** out.

Lonestar
04-26-2010, 12:28 AM
Ok, I am going to try and weave my way through all your sarcastic drivel to understand the points you are trying to make.

Are you saying that you believe that there is a clear separation in duties, like Bowlen said there would be, and that McDaniels is nothing more than the HC, and that Xanders makes all personnel and football operation decisions as a fully empowered GM would do?

Pat gets reports from Josh Xman and Joe. Therefore contrary to popular belief Josh is not totally in charge of the Broncos fate. Like mike used to be.

Pat got rid of the ONE man rule and initially installed basically 5 (4 see below) man rule. With Josh being the HC, the bates (2), Xman sharing the GM duties and Joe covering the finical part.

But maybe it was bates being co GM with Xman. and jr being scout. Not exactly sure with this but it was one or the other.

With all of them reporting to Pat.

When the bates jr started to have power sharing/reporting issues with Xman, it was decided by Pat that it could not continue.

Instead of firing bates jr. it was thought that there would be bad blood between Xman and Bates sr. and they were both fired.

I think I got that correct.

The final outcome was Josh, Joe and Xman reporting to Pat on a more or less equal footing.

Does that mean that Xman controls all of the GM duties I suspect not but I suspect he has the veto power over players or decisions, and that because they all report to Pat he has final say on who is drafted, signed as FA and released.

That does not mean that he is in on every bit of minutiae, BUT I'll bet dollars to donut that he was fully on board for bringing in Tebow, trading BM etc.

Not like in the past where mike made all of the decisions and then told Pat what he had done if Pat asked since they had a total trust thingy going on, till I suspect toward the final days.

IMHO What that all boils down to is PAt is beginning to trust Joshes decisions and has Joe and Xman there to keep the EYE ball on what is happening.

Xman and Josh seem to have a single purpose and think much alike so there does not seem to be an issue in getting Josh the players he thinks he needs.

Josh placed a lot of the praise on the GM XMan and his scouting crew for having the war room and draft board ready to go right after the season ended and there were minor tweaks since as they interviewed players and brought some of them in.

Tned
04-26-2010, 07:10 AM
1.) As a moderator, why do you feel it's your duty to continually make these stupid personal cracks? I don't mind them, as long as you're not going to play the victim again when I respond in kind, as you've done in the past, but I would love to know why you do it. Also, we should probably make sure that Atwater reads your post, so he'll have a better understanding of why I was such a "pit bull" in that other thread.

I am the admin of the board, but I only moderate when it's an emergency and there is no other mod available and it's something that can't wait. We have a moderator team that does the moderation. However, just because I am the admin doesn't mean I get to be abused more than the next guy or that you or anyone else can take shots whenever they want.

If you have an issue with one of my posts, you should hit the report post button, and I will do the same if I have issues with any of yours, and the mod team will review them.

I know you got upset because I didn't agree with you the other night, but that doesn't give you the right to follow me around and take pot shots at me. This is a message board, lots of us have different opinions on the issues that are discussed. You can't take it personal and lash out, because someone disagrees with you, even if that person is a mod or administrator.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
04-26-2010, 07:26 AM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/RedHillian/thread-going.jpg

Tned
04-26-2010, 07:39 AM
Pat gets reports from Josh Xman and Joe. Therefore contrary to popular belief Josh is not totally in charge of the Broncos fate. Like mike used to be.

Pat got rid of the ONE man rule and initially installed basically 5 (4 see below) man rule. With Josh being the HC, the bates (2), Xman sharing the GM duties and Joe covering the finical part.

But maybe it was bates being co GM with Xman. and jr being scout. Not exactly sure with this but it was one or the other.

With all of them reporting to Pat.

When the bates jr started to have power sharing/reporting issues with Xman, it was decided by Pat that it could not continue.

Instead of firing bates jr. it was thought that there would be bad blood between Xman and Bates sr. and they were both fired.

I think I got that correct.

The final outcome was Josh, Joe and Xman reporting to Pat on a more or less equal footing.

Does that mean that Xman controls all of the GM duties I suspect not but I suspect he has the veto power over players or decisions, and that because they all report to Pat he has final say on who is drafted, signed as FA and released.

That does not mean that he is in on every bit of minutiae, BUT I'll bet dollars to donut that he was fully on board for bringing in Tebow, trading BM etc.

Not like in the past where mike made all of the decisions and then told Pat what he had done if Pat asked since they had a total trust thingy going on, till I suspect toward the final days.

IMHO What that all boils down to is PAt is beginning to trust Joshes decisions and has Joe and Xman there to keep the EYE ball on what is happening.

Xman and Josh seem to have a single purpose and think much alike so there does not seem to be an issue in getting Josh the players he thinks he needs.

Josh placed a lot of the praise on the GM XMan and his scouting crew for having the war room and draft board ready to go right after the season ended and there were minor tweaks since as they interviewed players and brought some of them in.

I find it ironic that when Shanahan praised the Goodmans or Ted Sunquist for their part in the draft, contract negotiations, etc., it was discounted as lip service and that Shanny did it all (even though Shanahan denied it), but when McDaniels does it, then that is 'proof' that Xanders controls all player/personnel operations? :confused:

What you describe sounds exactly like what the arrangement was with Sundquist and Shanahan, isn't it? I am not aware of Sundquist reporting to Shanahan, I was under the impression he reported to Bowlen. Is this not correct?

I'll agree that there is no way for us to know what really is happening behind the scenes, just like there was no way to know what was happening when Shanahan was the coach.

jhildebrand
04-26-2010, 11:15 PM
Aside from the chemistry thing you pointed out which plays a MAJOR role into why this team has struggled for the last what? 4-5 years? Different coaches, different QB's, different water boys, etc. This team needs to settle in on who the starters are, let them play and build chemistry otherwise it will just be an never ending cycle of mediocrity like it has been. Now add that we still have to contend with the division leader SD with K.C and Oakland now improving their teams it will make things far more difficult than people want to admit. For me, its playoffs or bust this year. The grace period is over and we should be making progress now.

I agree with you. However, when 9 of 11 of the starters on D are over 30, it is hard to do that because at some point functional obsalescence sets in.

That is why I would be more open minded with McDaniels if there were a major youth movement on both sides of the ball.

You either say you are built to win now and PRODUCE or you build long term.

jhildebrand
04-26-2010, 11:17 PM
I was told that the much more "intense" training camps and hard practices were going to keep us from fading. That the "shanahan" easy camps and fading was gone.

But its just the same ol' thing. Seems that maybe it wasn't this "soft camps" that so many people hitched their wagon too.

:lol: I insisted for months...no...years it was camp med that Shanahan ran.

At this point, I just want to know why we don't gas D's at home. If any team should utilize a no huddle or hurry up offense at times it should be us. That could have helped in the Buffalo game a few years back or Oakland last season.

BroncoSojia
04-27-2010, 01:09 AM
*looks at thread title*

*realizes OP brings nothing new and pretty much repeating what the whole world and media is saying*

*shakes head in disgust at how far off base from reality these people are*

Check the date

Northman
04-27-2010, 07:33 AM
How many years have the Broncos faded in the 2nd half of the season? It wasn't a new thing that came about last season. It's been going on for the better part of a decade. This team has been soft. There's no other way to put it. The whole point of this thread was to discuss whether or not McD would make changing it a priority. I think he has, and will continue to do so. It can't be done overnight, but I think we're headed in the right direction.

Well, technically the team was already headed in the right direction. Although i agree that this team has had the same collapse in the second half of seasons there's no question that one of the biggest problems was 3rd down conversions. In 08' we were 5th in the league in 3rd conversions made. In 09' we dropped all the way down to 22nd in conversions made. Although scoring is still an issue the fact that our 3rd down conversion rate dropped so badly is actually a regression. And that was with having healthier backs as well. Obviously we know why some of the said players are here no longer but some of that was due to the HC. Now, McD has done some good things one being he is started to address some line needs that Denver has sorely needed. Last year he also went out and got a bonafide DC who improved us immensely even with some of the lack of talent there. Of course, he and Nolan butted heads and now he is gone so its still unclear of whether or not Martindale can perform at the same level. Basically it comes down to this, while McD has done some good things for the team he has also done some negative things that probably could of been avoided had he been a little more humble. So who knows if we are truly on the right track. For every good move there is a questionable one that goes along with it. Gmoney thinks that even if McD goes 7-9 this that his job will be saved but i dont see how. McD was brought in to win now, not 5 years down the road. His leash is only so long and i believe Bowlen knows that. At best McD will have 3 years to right the ship but that also includes making the playoffs which right now is questionable. Time will tell.

Northman
04-27-2010, 07:34 AM
I agree with you. However, when 9 of 11 of the starters on D are over 30, it is hard to do that because at some point functional obsalescence sets in.

That is why I would be more open minded with McDaniels if there were a major youth movement on both sides of the ball.

You either say you are built to win now and PRODUCE or you build long term.

Excellent post and i just addressed that with my last post. ;)