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arapaho2
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14226415?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29



Josh McDaniels took only 51 weeks to agree with me about Mike Nolan.
On Jan. 26, 2009, the Broncos' new head coach hired Nolan as his defensive coordinator, and I vehemently opposed the choice. On Jan. 18, 2010, McDaniels and Nolan "parted." In this case, "parted" is a synonym for "fired." McDaniels uttered a few words afterward; Nolan said he knew he was out of here beforehand.
Their conversation on Monday morning in McDaniels' office probably went something like this:


"Hi Mike. How's it going?"


"That probably depends on our talk."


"I'm not happy with the way you coached, Mike."


"We're not on the same page, Josh."


"Mike, don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out."


I publicly and humbly apologize to Mike Nolan.
Thank you for coming to Denver (for a second time). Sorry to see you go.
Nolan proved me wrong. He was the right defensive coordinator for the Broncos. He did an exceptional job with a patchwork defense that had only one starter from 2008 — Champ Bailey — return in his same position in 2009.
Nolan switched the Broncos from the 4-3 to the 3-4 and greatly helped Elvis Dumervil and D.J. Williams adjust to new positions. Nolan had to integrate 15 new Broncos into the system. He didn't get much out of a defensive line that hadn't been particularly perked up during the offseason (despite all the begging from those of us outside the organization), and the linemen wore down late in the season.


Yet, here are Nolan's positive accomplishments:
Dumervil led the NFL in sacks and was named to his first Pro Bowl, and Williams is an alternate to the Pro Bowl.


The Broncos improved from 29th overall on defense to seventh.


The Broncos went from getting 13 turnovers last season to 30 this season


The defense gave up 324 points, well below the 448 the Broncos were torched for in 2008.


The Broncos allowed 20 or fewer points eight times.
Taken as a whole, the defense certainly was more impressive than any in recent years.



Here are the offense's negative achievements:
The Broncos' offense cascaded from No. 2 overall in the league in Mike Shanahan's final season to 15th in McDaniels' first season.


The Broncos dropped from 6,333 yards to 5,463, from third in passing to 12th, from 12th in rushing to 18th and from being sacked 13 times to being sacked 34 times.


The Broncos scored 20 or fewer points nine times and scored 27 or more points only four times. They changed players, playbooks, schemes and a quarterback. Taken as a whole, the Broncos' offense certainly was less impressive than in recent years.


But McDaniels will have "his people" in place next season. Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner never were "his people." As I wrote several weeks ago, those two coaching holdovers from the previous staff would be gone, so those moves weren't surprising. Nolan was "his people" for one season, so his quick "parting" indeed was a surprise. Keith Burns is the last Shanahan Man standing . . . for the moment.


It took Nolan almost a full day to find another coordinator's position.
McDaniels won't be blaming the 2010 season on Dennison's offensive line, Turner's running backs or Nolan's defense.


If the coach hires, as expected, Dean Pees for the Broncos' merry-go-round defensive coordinator's amusement ride, he won't be blaming the former New England assistant. McDaniels and Pees were coordinators together, and Pees coached his brother at Kent State and once tried to hire his father as an assistant. Pees said last week after leaving the Patriots he wanted to take off some time to consider his future. I guess time's up.


And McDaniels won't be blaming his brother Ben, who will have a bigger role with the team, or his assistant Mark Thewes (a high school teammate) or assistant coach Roman Phifer (who played for the Patriots) or video director Steve Scarnecchia (who was with the Patriots and is the son of the Patriots' offensive coordinator) or college scout Adam Peters (who worked in the Patriots' personnel department) or former Patriots' players Jabar Gaffney, Daniel Graham, Lonnie Paxton, Brandon Gorin and LaMont Jordan, or the other players from New England who will come this offseason.


The Denver Broncoiots?


Who will be blamed if next season is similar to this season? All the rascals have been, or will be — hello, Brandon Marshall — thrown out.
Did the wrong coach leave the building at Dove Valley on Monday?
Next January, I will be apologizing to Josh McDaniels, or he'll have to agree, again, with me. Look out for that door.

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 01:06 PM
What's the count now on Woody's columns in which he has to admit within the first paragraph that "I was wrong a year ago".

Why does anyone pay any attention to this wind-bag anymore?

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 01:23 PM
probably less then the count of blind faithful who wont look at the real picture concerning a young headstrong, selfish coach who would destroy a team just so everyone on board is a yes man

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
look at how many of his staff and players have patriot ties....its doesnt take much to see what he's doing

MasterShake
01-20-2010, 01:27 PM
look at how many of his staff and players have patriot ties....its doesnt take much to see what he's doing

Just like a lot of Shannahan and Kubiaks new staff have some ties to Denver. You work well with who you work well with.

I see more evidence that Nolan wanted out as opposed to being shown the door. It seemed like a mutual parting. Its all hearsay right now anyway.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 01:42 PM
Just like a lot of Shannahan and Kubiaks new staff have some ties to Denver. You work well with who you work well with.

I see more evidence that Nolan wanted out as opposed to being shown the door. It seemed like a mutual parting. Its all hearsay right now anyway.


i look at it like nolan wanted controll of the defense, he was a great pickup and should have been given it.....mcd wanted it done his way...sees pees is released and free.....meets with nolan and says were gonna do it my way..under my control....nolan said find someone else to do it your way...

shank
01-20-2010, 01:46 PM
i look at it like nolan wanted controll of the defense, he was a great pickup and should have been given it.....mcd wanted it done his way...sees pees is released and free.....meets with nolan and says were gonna do it my way..under my control....nolan said find someone else to do it your way...

i WOULD think that, if nolan wasn't hired in miami so quickly. there was something going on there as well.


the truth is that right now i don't give two shits about how it happened, i'm just pissed that nolan won't be the denver broncos DC in 2010, cause he did a very good job.

Ravage!!!
01-20-2010, 01:53 PM
it doesn't take long to make a phone call. If Nolan and McD had already been 'tense' with one another during the season... as some reports have stated... then Nolan going into that Monday meeting might very well have known how things were already going to go. He knew Pees was coming available just as much as McD did.

So how is making a phone call to Miami going to take so much time, once you find out that you and McD have a "mutual understanding" that you are parting ways? It's not like we are sending carrier pigeons now days or anything.

Medford Bronco
01-20-2010, 01:54 PM
sometimes I feel that people here no matter what want to just trash, blow up and pour gasoline on everything that happens, every move etc.

Yes I like Nolan as well but he did not want to be here.

I went off the other day as well but my rationalization has come full circle in the last few days.

If McD is successful this year then most will be back on board and not want to crucify him.

I will give him more than one year before blowing it all up big time.

Just my take, its not right or wrong, just my humble opinion.

I would think McD knows more football than people on a message board no? ;)

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 04:22 PM
I would think McD knows more football than people on a message board no? ;)

Um, no. ;)

Northman
01-20-2010, 04:36 PM
For the first time in a long time Woody actually had something useful and accurate to say.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:05 PM
look at how many of his staff and players have patriot ties....its doesnt take much to see what he's doing

Hmm, trying to get a group together that dominated NFL football basically through the entire decade?

SOunds good to me, especially considering how terrribly average Denver Bronco football has been this last decade.

It amazes me how people here are perfectly content with "average".

Have some balls people.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:07 PM
For the first time in a long time Woody actually had something useful and accurate to say.

Not really, especially considering how far off from the truth his attempt at the McDaniel-Noaln conversation was.

Next Woody's going to try and blame Mike Shanahan for Wade Phillips failures as a head coach.

Northman
01-20-2010, 05:21 PM
Not really, especially considering how far off from the truth his attempt at the McDaniel-Noaln conversation was.

Next Woody's going to try and blame Mike Shanahan for Wade Phillips failures as a head coach.

He was in terms of the defense and offense is concerned. All other is speculation but there's plenty of that in every journalists articles. But his breakdown of the stats and the changes are dead on.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 05:23 PM
Hmm, trying to get a group together that dominated NFL football basically through the entire decade?

SOunds good to me, especially considering how terrribly average Denver Bronco football has been this last decade.

It amazes me how people here are perfectly content with "average".

Have some balls people.

then i guess Steve Scarnecchia the former patriot video manager was a vital part in the patriot success.....wait!!!! he was wasnt he

and joshes bro...or his high school buddy they played a crucial part

funny though josh took away all these key figures in the pats past success...and they still managed to make the post season

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 05:24 PM
He was in terms of the defense and offense is concerned. All other is speculation but there's plenty of that in every journalists articles. But his breakdown of the stats and the changes are dead on.


some people wouldnt see the truth if it hit them right in the eye

JONtheBRONCO
01-20-2010, 05:30 PM
Too bad our defense didn't shine all season, otherwise, this article would get a "hell ya" stamp of approval. But, it didn't. Nolan was a great, I'll miss him dearly, but i'll look on both sides of the fence. Sketchy on both parties, and in the end, it is what it is. So I'll take whoever is next, whther it's Dean or Don, I'm on board. I'm not concerned about the defensive coordinator anyway, I'm concerned about what all of us have been concerned about the past 5 years. DEFENSIVE. LINE.

My god, does it matter who the coordinator is anyway? I mean look at the guys we've had. We found the coach, he's gone. We've never found the defensive line. And we're in the same spot we are in every year week 17. Our run defense? Nowhere to be found. A pass rush? Not in Denver. Get us a beefstack at NT and a solid run playing defensive end and then talk to me about who the defensive coordinator is next January.

Nolan, you will be missed. But even you couldn't make up for a thin DL.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:31 PM
He was in terms of the defense and offense is concerned. All other is speculation but there's plenty of that in every journalists articles. But his breakdown of the stats and the changes are dead on.

No he wasn't. He offered the idea that there would be change on defense. Nolan chose to go to Miami. The "conversation" was hardly anywhere near what happened.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:33 PM
then i guess Steve Scarnecchia the former patriot video manager was a vital part in the patriot success.....wait!!!! he was wasnt he

and joshes bro...or his high school buddy they played a crucial part

funny though josh took away all these key figures in the pats past success...and they still managed to make the post season

Funny how you use situations like that against Josh and his "success" in New England, but would probably steer clear from the illegal activity in dealing with John Elway and our 2 SuperBowls.

I'm glad you care more about hating on McDaniels than the Brocnos actually succeeding.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:33 PM
some people wouldnt see the truth if it hit them right in the eye

Hypocritical irony at it's best.

How perfect.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 05:34 PM
look at how many of his staff and players have patriot ties....its doesnt take much to see what he's doing

Trying to build a winner by bringing in staff and personel that come from a winning franchise??

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:35 PM
Trying to build a winner by bringing in staff and personel that come from a winning franchise??

"some people wouldnt see the truth if it hit them right in the eye"

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 05:39 PM
then i guess Steve Scarnecchia the former patriot video manager was a vital part in the patriot success.....wait!!!! he was wasnt he

and joshes bro...or his high school buddy they played a crucial part

funny though josh took away all these key figures in the pats past success...and they still managed to make the post season

Haley brought in coaches he is familiar with

Pete Carroll is bringing in coaches he is familiar with

Shanahan brought in a running backs coach he is familiar with

Kubs brought in a OC he is familiar with

DAMN - what is the common denominator here - FAMILIAR WITH

roomemp
01-20-2010, 05:43 PM
"some people wouldnt see the truth if it hit them right in the eye"

I wonder if the Texans questioned Kubiak when he started to bring in his own guys. I wonder if the Redskins are questioning Shanny for bringing in his guys. Probably not. Why???? Because they are proven winners. I just don't understand why some people fail to see McDaniels through the same light.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 05:46 PM
Haley brought in coaches he is familiar with

Pete Carroll is bringing in coaches he is familiar with

Shanahan brought in a running backs coach he is familiar with

Kubs brought in a OC he is familiar with

DAMN - what is the common denominator here - FAMILIAR WITH


I should have probably read your post first :salute:

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 05:58 PM
I wonder if the Texans questioned Kubiak when he started to bring in his own guys. I wonder if the Redskins are questioning Shanny for bringing in his guys. Probably not. Why???? Because they are proven winners. I just don't understand why some people fail to see McDaniels through the same light.

Because a lot of these posters would rather have talent and average teams then actually trying to develop a winning organization.

It's funny how the majority of these are all over Cutler's jockstrap, who QB'd Denver to the worst 3 year tenure in their last 20 years.

But "hey, at least we aren't 4-12".

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 06:03 PM
But "hey, at least we aren't 4-12".

Yet... 2010 is just starting. ;)

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 06:08 PM
Yet... 2010 is just starting. ;)


Well, it's been my main point all along. Until McDaniels pumps out teams that are failures on the field, I will support him. Shanahan had talent all over the roster and couldn't get it done. It's pretty much the very reason why I haven't been against McDaniels in all these moves.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 06:14 PM
Well, it's been my main point all along. Until McDaniels pumps out teams that are failures on the field, I will support him. Shanahan had talent all over the roster and couldn't get it done. It's pretty much the very reason why I haven't been against McDaniels in all these moves.

If you ask JR, we're "devoid of talent". Other than one or two players per team, all teams are relatively the same, talent wise. That's why there is a salary cap and profit sharing in the NFL. The biggest difference between teams in the NFL, is coaching and a little luck with the injury bug.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 06:27 PM
Funny how you use situations like that against Josh and his "success" in New England, but would probably steer clear from the illegal activity in dealing with John Elway and our 2 SuperBowls.

I'm glad you care more about hating on McDaniels than the Brocnos actually succeeding.

because im smart enough, and knowledgeable of the game enough to know

agreeing to pay elway the money which was claimed on the salary cap at a later date so we can put up the hard cash in order to get the stadium going


is a lot differant then filming the other coaches hand signals and signs from behind them to use to gain a on the field edge

to bad you dont seem to be

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 06:32 PM
I wonder if the Texans questioned Kubiak when he started to bring in his own guys. I wonder if the Redskins are questioning Shanny for bringing in his guys. Probably not. Why???? Because they are proven winners. I just don't understand why some people fail to see McDaniels through the same light.

because shanny is a hof coach

this isnt so much about the none football staff he's bringing in ...its about the fact we had a great defnsive coach who turned this defesne around..and he's gone soon after another pats coach is unemployed....lookin at the staff we might see a common denominator

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 06:50 PM
because shanny is a hof coach

this isnt so much about the none football staff he's bringing in ...its about the fact we had a great defnsive coach who turned this defesne around..and he's gone soon after another pats coach is unemployed....lookin at the staff we might see a common denominator


LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR YOU

Haley brought in coaches he is familiar with

Pete Carroll is bringing in coaches he is familiar with

Shanahan brought in a running backs coach he is familiar with

Kubs brought in a OC he is familiar with

DAMN - what is the common denominator here - FAMILIAR WITH

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 07:32 PM
because im smart enough, and knowledgeable of the game enough to know

agreeing to pay elway the money which was claimed on the salary cap at a later date so we can put up the hard cash in order to get the stadium going


is a lot differant then filming the other coaches hand signals and signs from behind them to use to gain a on the field edge

to bad you dont seem to be

What's your excuse for McDaniels outcoaching Shanahan with a backup QB who hasn't started since high school well after they were moved past the hand signal scandal? Jay Cutler wasn't really the franchise QB Shanahan needed to succeed?

Good thing you know the game well enough to put the pieces together on that one.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 07:33 PM
because shanny is a hof coach

this isnt so much about the none football staff he's bringing in ...its about the fact we had a great defnsive coach who turned this defesne around..and he's gone soon after another pats coach is unemployed....lookin at the staff we might see a common denominator

What's your excuse for Shanahan getting 1 playoff win in his career without the G.O.A.T? Norv Turner has had more playoff victories in 1 post season than Shanahan has in his career without Elway. And please don't insinuate Rivers is as good as John Elway. That's absurd.

Ouch. That one hurts.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 07:58 PM
because shanny is a hof coach

this isnt so much about the none football staff he's bringing in ...its about the fact we had a great defnsive coach who turned this defesne around..and he's gone soon after another pats coach is unemployed....lookin at the staff we might see a common denominator

If coach wants to bring in his own guys.....Does it really matter??

Nolan is a good defensive coach but he is not the defensive saint that everyone is making him out to be.

We still had the 26th ranked rushing defense this year.
Thats not too great

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 08:06 PM
If a NEW HC is NOT suppose to bring in his own guys, keep the players he feels he wants, bring in new players he wants, put in his own scheme, etc, etc. etc. - what is the sense of CHANGING HC's in the first place?????

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:17 PM
No he wasn't. He offered the idea that there would be change on defense. Nolan chose to go to Miami. The "conversation" was hardly anywhere near what happened.

Uh, way to clearly miss the point of my post. :lol:

roomemp
01-20-2010, 08:21 PM
If a NEW HC is NOT suppose to bring in his own guys, keep the players he feels he wants, bring in new players he wants, put in his own scheme, etc, etc. etc. - what is the sense of CHANGING HC's in the first place?????

Yep......Perfectly said. Changing the HC means changing everything. I am cool with that. Give the man the tools he needs to suceed. Don't set him up to fail

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 08:22 PM
Uh, way to clearly miss the point of my post. :lol:

LMAO You're point of speculation? Great way to establish an argument.

Here's another argument. McDaniels is a genius for taking Nolan, implementing his system for the following year, and then getting rid of him when Nolan stated he intentionally threw the defense under a bus the last half of the season.

If you can speculate, I can too.

:lol:

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:24 PM
LMAO You're point of speculation? Great way to establish an argument.

Here's another argument. McDaniels is a genius for taking Nolan, implementing his system for the following year, and then getting rid of him when Nolan stated he intentionally threw the defense under a bus the last half of the season.

If you can speculate, I can too.

:lol:

Well, you've definitely mastered that brother. :beer::lol:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-20-2010, 08:24 PM
The dude has been with 5 teams since 2000.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 08:35 PM
Well, you've definitely mastered that brother. :beer::lol:

I give what I get.

That's all this place is is speculation. That, and irrational "facts".

"Who cares if Jay Cutler loses games. The guy can throw a football through a brick wall."

He may be able to throw a football through a brick wall, but he can't throw it through defenders chests in the redzone.

"Who cares, the guy has serious talent. We may never be a perenniel SuperBowl contender, but at least we won't go 4-12."

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:39 PM
What's your excuse for Shanahan getting 1 playoff win in his career without the G.O.A.T? Norv Turner has had more playoff victories in 1 post season than Shanahan has in his career without Elway. And please don't insinuate Rivers is as good as John Elway. That's absurd.

Ouch. That one hurts.

Is Rivers as good as Elway? Uh no. Who really is? However, do you consider Rivers a franchise Qb? Do you consider Rivers better than any QB Denver has had post Elway?

Medford Bronco
01-20-2010, 08:42 PM
Is Rivers as good as Elway? Uh no. Who really is? However, do you consider Rivers a franchise Qb? Do you consider Rivers better than any QB Denver has had post Elway?

Yes I consider Rivers better than any QB Denver has had post Elway. It aint even close IMHO

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:43 PM
I give what I get.

That's all this place is is speculation.

Than why do we as a board argue about it? Kind of goes back to my point about it all being a waste of time even discussing it. We all are getting into disagreements about speculation. Sounds totally pointless to me. Maybe i should just not even discuss those issues anymore and just hijack threads since its all nonsense and speculation on all parts. lol


"Who cares if Jay Cutler loses games. The guy can throw a football through a brick wall."

He may be able to throw a football through a brick wall, but he can't throw it through defenders chests in the redzone.

"Who cares, the guy has serious talent. We may never be a perenniel SuperBowl contender, but at least we won't go 4-12."

I have no idea where you were going with this. Is it pro-Jay or anti-Jay? lol

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 08:52 PM
Is Rivers as good as Elway? Uh no. Who really is? However, do you consider Rivers a franchise Qb? Do you consider Rivers better than any QB Denver has had post Elway?

Thank you for help supporting my point of Jay Cutler not being a franchise QB, and Shanahan was clearly wrong with that personel move. Again.

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:54 PM
Thank you for help supporting my point of Jay Cutler not being a franchise QB, and Shanahan was clearly wrong with that personel move. Again.


You didnt answer the question. Am i to take it that you dont think that Shanahan could of succeeded to making the playoffs with Rivers at the helm?

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 08:55 PM
Than why do we as a board argue about it? Kind of goes back to my point about it all being a waste of time even discussing it. We all are getting into disagreements about speculation. Sounds totally pointless to me. Maybe i should just not even discuss those issues anymore and just hijack threads since its all nonsense and speculation on all parts. lol


So you can discuss, but I can't? nonsense. You're not held on a higher chair around this place. Nobody is.



I have no idea where you were going with this. Is it pro-Jay or anti-Jay? lol

It's more, the irony of people all of a sudden coming out of the woodworks about how unhappy they are about the organization, when the truth is, it should have happened about 6 years ago.

I'm thinking the general Denver fanbase is about 6 years behind the times.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 08:57 PM
You didnt answer the question. Am i to take it that you dont think that Shanahan could of succeeded to making the playoffs with Rivers at the helm?

You want my to answer my question again that I answered in the quoted post?

"That's absurd".

Rivers is a top 5 QB in the NFL. Matt Cassell isn't. I see you clearly missed the boat with that one as well.

Northman
01-20-2010, 09:01 PM
So you can discuss, but I can't? nonsense. You're not held on a higher chair around this place. Nobody is.

I never said that, i was talking about everyone on the board. But, i get tired of people telling me that one article is all speculation which doesnt fit their agenda and then try to call other articles fact. Thats all i was getting at.




It's more, the irony of people all of a sudden coming out of the woodworks about how unhappy they are about the organization, when the truth is, it should have happened about 6 years ago.

I'm thinking the general Denver fanbase is about 6 years behind the times.


I totally agree with this and have stated that Shanahan was either held on too long or given the hook to soon as he was started to rebuild the last im couple of years. But at the same time it isnt like McD's shit doesnt stink and not every move that he makes is a great one in some people's minds.

Northman
01-20-2010, 09:03 PM
You want my to answer my question again that I answered in the quoted post?

"That's absurd".

Rivers is a top 5 QB in the NFL. Matt Cassell isn't. I see you clearly missed the boat with that one as well.


You are struggling tonight dude. Who is talking about Matt Cassell. I sure as hell wasnt. You made a statement about Turner making the playoffs more than Shanahan. I pointed out that Turner actually had a QB to work with while Denver did not. My question is do you think Shanahan couldnt have made the playoffs with Rivers. It wasnt that difficult of a question bro.

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 09:09 PM
I never said that, i was talking about everyone on the board. But, i get tired of people telling me that one article is all speculation which doesnt fit their agenda and then try to call other articles fact. Thats all i was getting at.

And I'm getting at the fact that everybody does it. I remember when the article comes up about how Marshall was suspended in training camp or whatever. Before the facts came out. You had half the posters on this board trashing McDaniels about how he's trying to push Marshall around. Then the facts come out. Speculation from people that have a hate McDaniels agaenda. It's just the way the board works.







I totally agree with this and have stated that Shanahan was either held on too long or given the hook to soon as he was started to rebuild the last im couple of years. But at the same time it isnt like McD's shit doesnt stink and not every move that he makes is a great one in some people's minds.

The problem was it took him 7 years before he figured out Denver needed to rebuild. He sold that "1 player away" BS year after year from Griese to Plummers final days.

I would easily say, that if there wasn't so much biased hatred towards McDaniels, and baised speculation, you woul,d have more people like me with more criticism.

The problem is people all of a sudden feel the need to start throwing harsh criticism around to McDaniels, like everything has been beautiful in Denver and all of a sudden this. I look at it like this. McDaniels is stuck taking out the trash this organization has become because Shanahan was left on far too long.

Yea, it's going to be ugly for a couple more years. It's been ugly for the last 10 years.

arapaho2
01-21-2010, 12:28 AM
If coach wants to bring in his own guys.....Does it really matter??

Nolan is a good defensive coach but he is not the defensive saint that everyone is making him out to be.

We still had the 26th ranked rushing defense this year.
Thats not too great

26th compared to last years 27th? not so good

how about this years 3rd ranked pass d..compared to last yrs..26th

or this years 12th ranked scoreing d..compared to last years 30th?

or this years 3rd place in turnovers created..compared to last years 31st...is that not great either?

i guess the overall 7th ranked def..isnt so great either...i mean compared to last years 29th place:coffee:.....yeah that one place improvement in run defense kinda kills the whole "our defense was better thingy"

arapaho2
01-21-2010, 12:40 AM
LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR YOU

Haley brought in coaches he is familiar with

Pete Carroll is bringing in coaches he is familiar with

Shanahan brought in a running backs coach he is familiar with

Kubs brought in a OC he is familiar with

DAMN - what is the common denominator here - FAMILIAR WITH


let me repeat this for you

would haley fire or release a Dc that completly turned his defense from 29th to 7th in one season...because some former co worker was unemployed?...doubt it

would carrol push out a very sought after dc who improved the defense immensly...just cause a former co worker needed a job?...doubt it

shannahan brought in a RB coach he worked with for over a decade..on a team that needed a...rb coach....he did not fire a coach a year after he took over the team,,,that was superb in his duties...just so he could bring in turner

kubs did not bring in dennisen four years ago when he took over the job...he did not bring in dennisen because kyle wouldnt knuckle under to him

and bringing in a familier coach because YOU NEED ONE..is alot differant then chaseing away a great coach cause your bud was released and needed a job

what part are you not getting?

Lonestar
01-21-2010, 03:33 AM
probably less then the count of blind faithful who wont look at the real picture concerning a young headstrong, selfish coach who would destroy a team just so everyone on board is a yes man


Come on now who was the king of yes men, mike and his merry bad of lackeys. Despite what a few think the team he inherited was not all that great. put up some great numbers and failed to get into the playoffs with an easier schedule.

Mike did a pretty good job overall sorry to see him go but it is not the end of the world. one stat he did not mention was our running defense was IIRC#26.

Let me add in here sure the pass defense was better, mostly because they could run at will and kill the clock.
Would you pass the ball if you can gain 5.0 yards per carry ONLY DET was worse.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go


This hack has been writing crap for decades can't actually believe anyone stomachs it.

silkamilkamonico
01-21-2010, 03:57 AM
You are struggling tonight dude. Who is talking about Matt Cassell. I sure as hell wasnt. You made a statement about Turner making the playoffs more than Shanahan. I pointed out that Turner actually had a QB to work with while Denver did not. My question is do you think Shanahan couldnt have made the playoffs with Rivers. It wasnt that difficult of a question bro.

If Rivers was Shanahan's QB, he very well should have. It took Shanahan 6 years to find Cutler, who he thought was his QB, who in turn apparently wasn't because he couldn't even give Denver a winning record in 3 seasons.

Perhaps we should have fired Shanahan, hired a guy who could get us a franchise QB for Shanahan, and then re-hired Shanahan, so wouldn't have to worry about being one of the most overrated head coaches in the NFL through basicall the entire 2000s tenure.

Northman
01-21-2010, 07:05 AM
If Rivers was Shanahan's QB, he very well should have. It took Shanahan 6 years to find Cutler, who he thought was his QB, who in turn apparently wasn't because he couldn't even give Denver a winning record in 3 seasons.

Perhaps we should have fired Shanahan, hired a guy who could get us a franchise QB for Shanahan, and then re-hired Shanahan, so wouldn't have to worry about being one of the most overrated head coaches in the NFL through basicall the entire 2000s tenure.


It took Shanahan a while to find his QB because we spent a great portion of that time drafting in the bottom of the rounds. Despite the problems we had Shanahan still was able to field a competitive team. But in the last couple of years of his tenure he was able to move up in the draft and finally get the guy he needed or felt he needed. Im certainly no Cutler apologist but you do have to look at Shanahan's time objectively. The biggest problem with Mike was that he spent a long time just trying to patch up instead of rebuild which in turn was too little too late for him. But in the end the only reason Turner has been successful at making the playoffs is because he inherited a team built to compete with a franchise QB in place. Shanahan wasnt so fortunate after Elway retired.

studbucket
01-21-2010, 10:03 AM
Why would anyone read Woody Paige or the Denver Post anymore?

All they've been doing for the past 1-2 years is just proving that they can't provide real football news or analysis, especially Woody Paige. With the rise of sites like National Football Post and Move The Sticks, there's no reason to pay attention to the local windbags or local rag; The best football minds are available 24/7 for free on the internet, and I'm not sure why anyone would think it's even remotely a good idea to get your football news from somewhere else; specifically people that know little about the game and write with an agenda.

arapaho2
01-21-2010, 11:58 AM
Come on now who was the king of yes men, mike and his merry bad of lackeys. Despite what a few think the team he inherited was not all that great. put up some great numbers and failed to get into the playoffs with an easier schedule.

Mike did a pretty good job overall sorry to see him go but it is not the end of the world. one stat he did not mention was our running defense was IIRC#26.

Let me add in here sure the pass defense was better, mostly because they could run at will and kill the clock.
Would you pass the ball if you can gain 5.0 yards per carry ONLY DET was worse.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go


This hack has been writing crap for decades can't actually believe anyone stomachs it.


sure shanny was head strong...when you win back to back superbowls it kinda gives you the right to be so....and again tha problem last year was defense...i already showed numerous times what the defense allowed...i also showed you ortons bad record when the defense allowed the same..i have little doubt that had cutler been here with the same offense....we go to the post season


as for your defense...AGAIN you keep insisting the pass defense was so good because our rush d was so bad.....yet in 2008 our pass defense and rush defense were equally bad

and our pass defense this year isnt good because ...how did you put it?.."mostly because they could run at will and kill the clock."....yet surprisenly the defense faced more passing attempts then rushing...510 to 456....so why werent teams running more?...how did our pass def get so good...when they faced more passing attempts then rushing????

silkamilkamonico
01-21-2010, 01:51 PM
It took Shanahan a while to find his QB because we spent a great portion of that time drafting in the bottom of the rounds. Despite the problems we had Shanahan still was able to field a competitive team. But in the last couple of years of his tenure he was able to move up in the draft and finally get the guy he needed or felt he needed. Im certainly no Cutler apologist but you do have to look at Shanahan's time objectively. The biggest problem with Mike was that he spent a long time just trying to patch up instead of rebuild which in turn was too little too late for him. But in the end the only reason Turner has been successful at making the playoffs is because he inherited a team built to compete with a franchise QB in place. Shanahan wasnt so fortunate after Elway retired.

I'm not sure I can even say Cutler was his QB. Forget playoffs, Shanahan and Cutler couldn't even field a winning record together. And before anyone throws out "defense", Kurt Warner did it, Trent Green did it, Peyton Manning did it, hell even Jake PLummer did it in Arizona. All won despite a god forsaken defense, and in some cases, no running game.

Shanahan's problem was stagnant results. There was no development, or progression. He had 8-8, 9-7 teams year after year after year. He didn't improve on those at all. He had 1 good season in the 2000's where the team didn't end up finishing where they were expected. Even that season finished with a disappointing playoff blowout loss at home. And then he blows that team up.

Shanahan had 10 years to get it right after Elway retired. Some coaches get 2 years max in the NFL to get it right.

How much f'n time was Shanahan supposed to get. Denver couldn't, and shouldn't, wait around forever trying to get him to figure it out.

The 2000's has been a terrible decade for Denver in the grand scheme of things. 1 playoff win. 1 Division title. 1. Both worse in the AFCWest.

People don't remember if you've been competitive every year. They remember if you played well in the playoffs and won the meaningful games.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm not sure I can even say Cutler was his QB. Forget playoffs, Shanahan and Cutler couldn't even field a winning record together. And before anyone throws out "defense", Kurt Warner did it, Trent Green did it, Peyton Manning did it, hell even Jake PLummer did it in Arizona. All won despite a god forsaken defense, and in some cases, no running game.

Shanahan's problem was stagnant results. There was no development, or progression. He had 8-8, 9-7 teams year after year after year. He didn't improve on those at all. He had 1 good season in the 2000's where the team didn't end up finishing where they were expected. Even that season finished with a disappointing playoff blowout loss at home. And then he blows that team up.

Shanahan had 10 years to get it right after Elway retired. Some coaches get 2 years max in the NFL to get it right.

How much f'n time was Shanahan supposed to get. Denver couldn't, and shouldn't, wait around forever trying to get him to figure it out.

The 2000's has been a terrible decade for Denver in the grand scheme of things. 1 playoff win. 1 Division title. 1. Both worse in the AFCWest.

People don't remember if you've been competitive every year. They remember if you played well in the playoffs and won the meaningful games.

Great post - this was exactly what Mike Evans was talking about yesterday on FM104.3thefan - he said he is totally amazed as to how many fans were OK with overlooking all of Shanahan's wrongs - overlooking many of Shanahan's draft busts, and personnel moves, etc., BUT are now so quick to judge Coach McDaniels on his FIRST year.

Lonestar
01-21-2010, 02:02 PM
sure shanny was head strong...when you win back to back superbowls it kinda gives you the right to be so....and again tha problem last year was defense...i already showed numerous times what the defense allowed...i also showed you ortons bad record when the defense allowed the same..i have little doubt that had cutler been here with the same offense....we go to the post season


as for your defense...AGAIN you keep insisting the pass defense was so good because our rush d was so bad.....yet in 2008 our pass defense and rush defense were equally bad

and our pass defense this year isnt good because ...how did you put it?.."mostly because they could run at will and kill the clock."....yet surprisenly the defense faced more passing attempts then rushing...510 to 456....so why werent teams running more?...how did our pass def get so good...when they faced more passing attempts then rushing????


so how do you defend being .! of a yard per carry from being dead last in rushing defense. a full 1.7 yards per carry from being the best.

sorry but the last half of the season we could not stop the run and therefore IIRC lost games because they could not get off the field. Running begets TOP if you consistently lose at the TOP issue you consistently lose games.

believe what you will it is obvious to me your disdain for Josh has you turned inside out and are unable to Rationally see what is happened or about to happen.

So lets agree to disagree.:salute:

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 05:22 PM
let me repeat this for you

would haley fire or release a Dc that completly turned his defense from 29th to 7th in one season...because some former co worker was unemployed?...doubt it

would carrol push out a very sought after dc who improved the defense immensly...just cause a former co worker needed a job?...doubt it

shannahan brought in a RB coach he worked with for over a decade..on a team that needed a...rb coach....he did not fire a coach a year after he took over the team,,,that was superb in his duties...just so he could bring in turner

kubs did not bring in dennisen four years ago when he took over the job...he did not bring in dennisen because kyle wouldnt knuckle under to him

and bringing in a familier coach because YOU NEED ONE..is alot differant then chaseing away a great coach cause your bud was released and needed a job

what part are you not getting?

Forgive me - I did not REALIZE that you had inside information - that you were TOLD EXACTLY that Nolan was let go SOLELY because McDaniels wanted to bring in Pees.

Also, wanted to bring you current on Shanahan's latest coaching hires:

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins_Hire_Bruney__Slowik_To_Defensive_Coaching _Staff_101642.jsp

Redskins Add Burney, Slowik To Coaching Staff

Slowik has coached both on the professional and collegiate level for more than three decades. He enters his 18th season as an NFL assistant and spent four seasons (2005-08) working under Shanahan with the Denver Broncos.

Slowik originally joined the Broncos as defensive backs coach (2005-06), before being promoted to the team’s defensive coordinator and defensive backs coach in 2007. The following season (2008) he served solely as the Broncos’ defensive coordinator.

Slowik has been a defensive coordinator in the NFL for 10 seasons, working in that capacity for Denver (2007-08), Green Bay (2004), Cleveland (1999) and Chicago (1993-98). Under his direction, six players have earned a total of 11 Pro Bowl appearances.

“Bob is someone who I have worked with for several years and he has a great knowledge of the defensive side of the ball,” Shanahan said. “He has been very successful as both a position coach and a coordinator in this league. He will be instrumental in working with our defensive backs.”

Burney spent seven seasons working under current Redskins executive vice president/head coach Mike Shanahan in Denver (2002-08), following stints with Carolina (1999-2001) and Cleveland/Baltimore (1994-98).

“Jacob brings a great background of mentoring defensive linemen and helping them reach their fullest potential,” Shanahan said. “He will play a big part in preparing this team to play in one of the most physical conferences in the NFL.”

NightTrainLayne
01-21-2010, 05:29 PM
Forgive me - I did not REALIZE that you had inside information - that you were TOLD EXACTLY that Nolan was let go SOLELY because McDaniels wanted to bring in Pees.

Also, wanted to bring you current on Shanahan's latest coaching hires:

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins_Hire_Bruney__Slowik_To_Defensive_Coaching _Staff_101642.jsp

Redskins Add Burney, Slowik To Coaching Staff

Slowik has coached both on the professional and collegiate level for more than three decades. He enters his 18th season as an NFL assistant and spent four seasons (2005-08) working under Shanahan with the Denver Broncos.

Slowik originally joined the Broncos as defensive backs coach (2005-06), before being promoted to the team’s defensive coordinator and defensive backs coach in 2007. The following season (2008) he served solely as the Broncos’ defensive coordinator.

Slowik has been a defensive coordinator in the NFL for 10 seasons, working in that capacity for Denver (2007-08), Green Bay (2004), Cleveland (1999) and Chicago (1993-98). Under his direction, six players have earned a total of 11 Pro Bowl appearances.

“Bob is someone who I have worked with for several years and he has a great knowledge of the defensive side of the ball,” Shanahan said. “He has been very successful as both a position coach and a coordinator in this league. He will be instrumental in working with our defensive backs.”

Burney spent seven seasons working under current Redskins executive vice president/head coach Mike Shanahan in Denver (2002-08), following stints with Carolina (1999-2001) and Cleveland/Baltimore (1994-98).

“Jacob brings a great background of mentoring defensive linemen and helping them reach their fullest potential,” Shanahan said. “He will play a big part in preparing this team to play in one of the most physical conferences in the NFL.”

Oh wow. Slowik won't be running the defense, but with him running the secondary and Burney coaching the D-line. . ..Shanny didn't learn his lesson me-thinks.

Maybe Haslett can overcome it, but to me, Burney's results as a D-line coach were about the worst in the league. . .of course, Shanny'd never actually give him much to work with either.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 05:34 PM
Oh wow. Slowik won't be running the defense, but with him running the secondary and Burney coaching the D-line. . ..Shanny didn't learn his lesson me-thinks.

Maybe Haslett can overcome it, but to me, Burney's results as a D-line coach were about the worst in the league. . .of course, Shanny'd never actually give him much to work with either.

I really need someone to CONVINCE me that Haslett had ANY say in these hirings :D

LRtagger
01-22-2010, 04:44 PM
26th compared to last years 27th? not so good

how about this years 3rd ranked pass d..compared to last yrs..26th

or this years 12th ranked scoreing d..compared to last years 30th?

or this years 3rd place in turnovers created..compared to last years 31st...is that not great either?

i guess the overall 7th ranked def..isnt so great either...i mean compared to last years 29th place:coffee:.....yeah that one place improvement in run defense kinda kills the whole "our defense was better thingy"

You are conveniently leaving out a lot of key factors with these rankings. It's like Mike Nolan was the only human being on the planet that contributed to the pass defense and he had nothing to do with our terrible run defense.

Here are a couple things I would like to point out that may have also contributed:

1. McDaniels has always been known as a guy who knows the QB position better than anyone. Perhaps his knowledge of QBs and the way they make their decisions contributed to how the secondary was coached. I can almost guarantee you it helped against NE, so why not assume it helped the rest of the year against the pass?

2. Marlon McCree, Dre Bly, Marquand Manuel, Calvin Lowry, Karl Paymah vs. Andre Goodman, Ty Law, Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, David Bruton. I don't think I need to elaborate here.

3. Ed Donatell. In case you don't know who he is, he was our secondary coach during the SB years. He has also helped turn around several NFL defenses as DC and was my favorite hire this offseason. I have little doubt that he contributed greatly to how this secondary performed.

4. Bob Slowik was our DC last year. I don't care WHO we brought in for 2009, it would have been an improvement over 2008 by default.

Also let me give you something else to think about...

Ron Fields anchored the line. Does anyone disagree that Nolan is the person who brought Fields in? Do we know if Nolan convinced McDaniels that Fields could do the job on this line and that McD didn't need to bring in another guy? Perhaps this was a reason we did not draft a NT. I can't say that's true, but I don't think anyone can deny it with facts. Fields played as well as he could, but was still a liability to our run defense.

We can't know for sure who decided to keep players from last year's roster along the line, who decided on what FAs we would bring in and what players we would draft. But what Ron Fields does prove is that Nolan at least had SOME roster input.

The point I am getting at is I have a hard time with some posters who discredit McDaniels for everything that was good about the 2009 Broncos and blame him for everything that was bad. Am I defending McDaniels? No. I am trying to provide a level headed and unbiased opinion.

McDaniels made plenty of mistakes last year, but he also did a lot to improve on some of Shanahan's failures. These people who wanted him gone before his plane even hit the tarmac in Denver and twisted every story to backhand McDaniels are getting a bit tiresome.

If people want McDaniels gone, fine. But don't try to spin every little thing to blame or discredit McDaniels. The guy did some things good and some things bad, but don't pretend that he only had a hand in things that went bad and had nothing to do with things that went well. I expect the defense to improve next year with or without Nolan. It's what we should ALL expect. I'm just not ready to write off our 2010 D simply because one man is gone. We have a lot of other men who contributed to the 2009 defensive improvement that are seemingly getting no credit right now.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-22-2010, 04:49 PM
Great post LR - it is totally refreshing to read a "common sense" post :salute:

Broncolingus
01-22-2010, 05:11 PM
Man...I don't think McD and Woodrow are going to be BFFs anytime soon.

Superchop 7
01-22-2010, 05:14 PM
Carol.......Mike Evans was getting flamed for his opinion from callers.

If you want a balanced opinion......listen to Sandy Clough (sp?)

For those of you thinking Shanny is screwing up the Redskins defense.......you are right....he is.

Haslett was probably nailing a cheerleader at the time of the hires. (Waiting to see who gets this comment)

The other problem with Haslett is that he isn't in firm control of the players. They tend to do what "they" want under his leadership.

Do the Broncos even have a PR department ?

Could have fooled me.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-22-2010, 05:18 PM
Carol.......Mike Evans was getting flamed for his opinion from callers.

If you want a balanced opinion......listen to Sandy Clough (sp?)

For those of you thinking Shanny is screwing up the Redskins defense.......you are right....he is.

Haslett was probably nailing a cheerleader at the time of the hires. (Waiting to see who gets this comment)

The other problem with Haslett is that he isn't in firm control of the players. They tend to do what "they" want under his leadership.

Do the Broncos even have a PR department ?

Could have fooled me.

You directed this post at me because :confused:

Also, I have listened to Clough, and he is so PRO Cutler, it is not funny
Balanced opinion - no way, unless his opinions are the same as yours.

Superchop 7
01-22-2010, 07:39 PM
Because you used Evans as an example.

Few people agree with him.