PDA

View Full Version : Pees may find trouble in Denver (column)



titan
01-20-2010, 11:44 AM
From the Boston Herald:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1226848&position=1

Dean Pees may find trouble in Denver
Tough act to follow
By Ron Borges

It seems it’s not just star players that Josh McDaniels can’t get along with in Denver. He can’t get along with top-shelf coaches either, a fact that opened the door for recently departed Patriots [team stats] defensive coordinator Dean Pees to safely walk out of New England last week without a job or real worries about long-term unemployment.

Less than two weeks after McDaniels acted in a way he would never tolerate from his players - like a petulant child - when he refused to provide his team its best chance to win its final game by benching Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler, he called in defensive coordinator Mike Nolan and told him in no uncertain terms his Broncos would not be blitzing next season like they did this year.

The blitz, especially in some run situations, has long been a staple of Nolan’s approach to defense, and it has served him and his teams well. That included McDaniels’ Broncos, who were 29th in the league in defense a year ago but finished seventh this season, their first under Nolan, despite a late-season slide that coincided with a less than brilliant 2-8 finish to McDaniels’ roller coaster first season as a head coach.

There will not be a second season of that union because after that meeting Nolan and McDaniels decided what had always been the NFL equivalent of a shotgun marriage - McDaniels hired Nolan at the suggestion of the agent they both share, Bob LaMonte, despite the fact they barely knew each other - had to end.

By then, the Buffalo Bills and Miami Dolphins formally asked permission to interview Nolan and the Chicago Bears sent out feelers. Barely 24 hours later Nolan was hired in Miami, where he joins the Johnny Appleseed of the Belichick coaching tree, Dolphins executive vice-president of football operations Bill Parcells.

Parcells started it all for Belichick, who had been a little known assistant coach until Parcells elevated him to linebacker coach and finally defensive coordinator with the New York Giants nearly 25 years ago. The rest is history.

Now so is Nolan’s time in Denver and Pees’ in New England. The timing looks, well, a bit too convenient. Pees leaves suddenly saying he doesn’t know what he’s going to do next but he’d be surprised if he isn’t coaching football this fall. Nolan leaves Denver and lands a job in 24 hours. Before Nolan’s plane has hit the tarmac at Miami International Airport, Pees is trumpeted as the front runner for the Broncos’ opening. These are, of course, all coincidences.

Nolan will bring a different scheme to Miami than what Rex Ryan is running with the Jets, but it is similarly aggressive. It is also out of the same base 3-4 front advocated by Parcells, Belichick, McDaniels, Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini in Cleveland and Scott Pioli in Kansas City. At least these guys stick together, even when they’re living apart.

Nolan’s departure now appears to have opened the door for Pees, who a week ago said he left the Patriots voluntarily but made a point of saying he would be “surprised” if he wasn’t coaching this fall. Sources in Denver claimed last night that McDaniels was in his office trying to decide between the 60-year-old Pees, who has had a long-time association with his family as head coach at Kent State where he offered a job to McDaniels’ father and recruited his brother, Ben, and 46-year-old linebacker coach Don Martindale, a former Oakland Raiders assistant hired last year by McDaniels. Martindale has not coordinated a defense since he left Western Illinois in 1999. They say Pees is the leading candidate in the same way Secretariat once led the Belmont Stakes.

McDaniels’ problem with Nolan was that he’d grown up (sort of) under Belichick’s less wild-eyed defensive philosophy. He was never comfortable with the amount of run blitzes Nolan favored or his gambling style against the pass. He wanted to tone things down, sticking with the 3-4 but with more control. Pees is well suited to provide that.

Whether it ends up being Pees or Martindale, this will be the fifth defensive coordinator in the past five years in Denver, a rate of turnover that is startling.

As for Miami, the Dolphins allowed 390 points last season under departed coordinator Paul Pasqualoni, the third highest total in the AFC. Nolan figures to bring that number down, just as he did in earlier stints coordinating defenses for the Giants, Redskins, Jets and Ravens.

Dean Pees’ job, assuming he lands it, will be a bit more dicey.

Nolan inherited an under-productive group in Denver and greatly improved it and is now inheriting a similarly slipshod unit in Miami with the intention of quickly making it competitive with the Patriots and the Jets. Poor Pees will take over a defense that improved 22 places in defensive ranking in one year under Nolan.

Tough act to follow, but apparently not as tough as staying in Foxboro had become for him.

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 11:58 AM
Report: McDaniels told Nolan there would be less blitzing (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/20/report-mcdaniels-told-nolan-there-would-be-less-blitzing/)

Posted by Mike Florio on January 20, 2010 11:42 AM ET
As folks in Denver try to figure out why Mike Nolan is no longer the team's defensive coordinator, Ron Borges of the Boston Herald reports that the divorce was caused not by Bill Parcells sniffing around for someone to run Miami's defense, but by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels trying to tell Nolan how to do his job.

Per Borges, McDaniels told Nolan "in no uncertain terms" that the Broncos would be blitzing less frequently in 2010 (http://bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1226848&position=1) then they did in 2009.

And so the two men decided to part ways.

A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees, and that Pees possibly was motivated to add to the coaching staff a guy with NFL head-coaching experience, who could be a viable candidate to take over the Broncos on an interim basis if the 2-8 momentum to end McDaniels' first season continues into his second.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 12:08 PM
kind of a knock on the head of those thinking josh does no wrong:listen:

we can sit back and look at this past season...look at games where the defense swarmed and blitzed and attacked..and we won...and sit back annd look at games where we said ..WHY ARE'NT WE BLITZING...WHERES THE PRESSURE...and wonder if that was by joshes orders

nolan was right to leave as would any great dc...you want to coach your style...your way, and not say this is my philosophy..this is my scheme...my way...the way i do it...after years and years of progression and adaptation..my defense...but i will not allow a offensive coach the power to override my scheme and change it to something else entirely

JONtheBRONCO
01-20-2010, 12:20 PM
We won't need to blitz as much when we actually have a front 7 who can play the run...

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 12:27 PM
Is there someone who watched a lot of the 49ers under Nolan around?

My impression (very uninformed since I don't see much of the 49ers here) is that under Nolan the 49ers did very little blitzing. Played a lot more of a "keep 'em in front of us" approach and didn't attack a lot.

Based on this article my impression must be waaaaaayyyy the hell off base, because this intimates that Nolan is a "go-get-'em, attack the QB" type of DC. I do remember that it seemed we did a lot more blitzing early on in the season and did less and less as the season wore on. We also seemed to be a lot more successful when we did. . . whoever cut it out, whether Nolan or McD or both, I wish they'd learn their lesson. Shanny did the same thing the last ten years. . hardly allowed any blitzing. Defenses need to attack the opposing QB in the NFL imo.

Also. .. why is it that the reporters in Denver always seem to be the last to know what's going on?

titan
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
If you don't have the horses up front you've got to blitz, in my opinion. I liked that about Nolan's defenses. But maybe the Pees approach will be better long term. Pees, too, with his experience can help with the critical free agent and draft analysis to beef up the front 7.

dogfish
01-20-2010, 12:32 PM
he called in defensive coordinator Mike Nolan and told him in no uncertain terms his Broncos would not be blitzing next season like they did this year.

i really, REALLY hope borges is pulling this out of his ass (something he has a bit of a rep for). . . 'cuz if that IS the case, WTF is JMFMCD thinking?? rivers picking the san diego turf out of his facemask was one of the highlights of the entire season! if we go back to that bob slowick, ray rhodes gigantic poosy defensive philosophy-- the ol' bend and then break, sit back and watch them pick you apart-- i swear i will probably lose my damn mind. . .

seriously, if josh implements that shitty, loser defensive approach again, i hope bowlen throws him right out on his ass!

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 12:35 PM
i really, REALLY hope borges is pulling this out of his ass (something he has a bit of a rep for). . . 'cuz if that IS the case, WTF is JMFMCD thinking?? rivers picking the san diego turf out of his facemask was one of the highlights of the entire season! if we go back to that bob slowick, ray rhodes gigantic poosy defensive philosophy-- the ol' bend and then break, sit back and watch them pick you apart-- i swear i will probably lose my damn mind. . .

seriously, if josh implements that shitty, loser defensive approach again, i hope bowlen throws him right out on his ass!

What is it with offensive-minded coaches who don't like their defenses to blitz? Some kind of transferrence I guess. :lol:

shank
01-20-2010, 01:37 PM
i really, REALLY hope borges is pulling this out of his ass (something he has a bit of a rep for). . . 'cuz if that IS the case, WTF is JMFMCD thinking?? rivers picking the san diego turf out of his facemask was one of the highlights of the entire season! if we go back to that bob slowick, ray rhodes gigantic poosy defensive philosophy-- the ol' bend and then break, sit back and watch them pick you apart-- i swear i will probably lose my damn mind. . .

seriously, if josh implements that shitty, loser defensive approach again, i hope bowlen throws him right out on his ass!

that could be my last straw as well... that sends me asking for a membership ID in the claymore club.

i'm so disenchanted with McD and the broncos right now, it's sad.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 01:46 PM
It seems TOTALLY unrealistic to me that two writers OUTSIDE of Denver appear to KNOW EXACTLY what was said by Coach McD to Nolan:rolleyes:

dogfish
01-20-2010, 02:04 PM
It seems TOTALLY unrealistic to me that two writers OUTSIDE of Denver appear to KNOW EXACTLY what was said by Coach McD to Nolan:rolleyes:

you honestly think mcD lost all his connections in the new england media when he moved out here? come on, carol, don't just automatically assume that something is false just because it may not be one-hundred percent flattering to josh or the broncos. . .

i'm not saying that it IS true, necessarily-- i think borges is a hack. . . but is it plausible to think that maybe josh wanted that information out there to explain nolan's departure, and so he let it leak to somebody he knows in the media? of course it is-- it's naive to think that coaches, front office people and team execs don't use the media that way, to disseminate information that they want out there but may not want to have their names directly attatched to for whatever reason. . . happens all the time, it's part of the way business is conducted in the NFL. . .

i have no idea whteher this is the case here or not, but it most certainly isn't "TOTALLY unrealistic," as you put it. . .

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 02:15 PM
you honestly think mcD lost all his connections in the new england media when he moved out here? come on, carol, don't just automatically assume that something is false just because it may not be one-hundred percent flattering to josh or the broncos. . .

i'm not saying that it IS true, necessarily-- i think borges is a hack. . . but is it plausible to think that maybe josh wanted that information out there to explain nolan's departure, and so he let it leak to somebody he knows in the media? of course it is-- it's naive to think that coaches, front office people and team execs don't use the media that way, to disseminate information that they want out there but may not want to have their names directly attatched to for whatever reason. . . happens all the time, it's part of the way business is conducted in the NFL. . .

i have no idea whteher this is the case here or not, but it most certainly isn't "TOTALLY unrealistic," as you put it. . .


Considering the way McD has been villified in the Denver media it's even more likely that if McD wanted to leak something, that he'd give the scoop to someone outside of Denver.

But this article doesn't have the feel of a leak from McD. . .. seems pretty critical, but who knows.

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 02:21 PM
Nolan was fantastic at using blitz packages to create pressure on oppossing teams. Granted we had to use it more than one would like but that was because of the lack of talent on the DL. Every team blitzes, some more than others, Denver was actually pretty damn good at it last year. If Mcd wants to blitz less, you can add this to another philosophy that I don't agree with. Take the 4 remaining teams left this season, 3 rely heavily on the blitz, only Minnesota brings the pressure with a base defensive line consistently.

Miami is going to be very happy with Nolan next season.

dogfish
01-20-2010, 02:31 PM
Considering the way McD has been villified in the Denver media it's even more likely that if McD wanted to leak something, that he'd give the scoop to someone outside of Denver.


that was my feeling as well. . .

SOCALORADO.
01-20-2010, 02:37 PM
Nolan was fantastic at using blitz packages to create pressure on oppossing teams. Granted we had to use it more than one would like but that was because of the lack of talent on the DL. Every team blitzes, some more than others, Denver was actually pretty damn good at it last year. If Mcd wants to blitz less, you can add this to another philosophy that I don't agree with. Take the 4 remaining teams left this season, 3 rely heavily on the blitz, only Minnesota brings the pressure with a base defensive line consistently.

Miami is going to be very happy with Nolan next season.

Nolan is well known in the NFL as the best 3rd down blitz package creator out there. He has alot of exotic blitzs and ILB delays and stunts, some of which you saw this last season.

T.K.O.
01-20-2010, 03:10 PM
well on the bright side IF we hire pees....the patriots gave up 285 points last year and the broncos gave up 324....so it just might be an upgrade !
not to mention we will have the coaches on the same page which is a big + on any team:salute:

Hoser
01-21-2010, 06:29 PM
kind of a knock on the head of those thinking josh does no wrong:listen:

we can sit back and look at this past season...look at games where the defense swarmed and blitzed and attacked..and we won...and sit back annd look at games where we said ..WHY ARE'NT WE BLITZING...WHERES THE PRESSURE...and wonder if that was by joshes orders

nolan was right to leave as would any great dc...you want to coach your style...your way, and not say this is my philosophy..this is my scheme...my way...the way i do it...after years and years of progression and adaptation..my defense...but i will not allow a offensive coach the power to override my scheme and change it to something else entirely

I actually remember the Eagles game where we wouldn't stop blitzing and McNabb kept burning us on it, and I kept screaming how we need to stop blitzing. Then in the 2nd half we finally stopped and held them to 3 points.

I think our success sort of lived and died on the run game. We were terrible after Ryan Harris went down because really more than anything an offensive line is based on communication. We were I think 2nd in the NFL in rushing at the end of our 6-0 start, and then after he went down against Baltimore we plummeted all the way to 18th in the NFL by the time the season was over. Don't forget the one game he managed to come back from injury against KC we had our best game rushing on the year with 220+ yards.

When we could run the ball like in all 8 of our wins we kept our offense on the field and our defense rested. In the games where we lost it was either because Chris Simms was a pile of stink, or we couldn't run the ball.

Next year I'm hoping we draft either G Mike Iupati or C Maurkice Pouncey and beef the hell out of our O-line and can actually run the ball well like we did those first 6 games.

Don't worry guys, it'll be okay! :D

Woohoo first post!

Hoser
01-21-2010, 06:30 PM
well on the bright side IF we hire pees....the patriots gave up 285 points last year and the broncos gave up 324....so it just might be an upgrade !
not to mention we will have the coaches on the same page which is a big + on any team:salute:

The Patriots under Pees have actually never surrendered more than 20 points per game, despite going through 22 starters including 4 rookies in 2008.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 06:39 PM
The Patriots under Pees have actually never surrendered more than 20 points per game, despite going through 22 starters including 4 rookies in 2008.

I've got to believe that Bellichick had something to do with that. Much like they also scored a gazillion points a game with McDaniels as their O-coordinator but our offense with him running it couldn't even average 20 PPG.

I'd bet that their defense was just as successful with Crennell and Mangina running it, too. Too bad they really haven't done anything since then, though. I could be wrong (and i hope i am if we hire Pees) but you just can't use any former Patriots' performance history (as a coach or player) as a measuring stick of how they'll be elsewhere. They've NEVER measured up.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 06:47 PM
I've got to believe that Bellichick had something to do with that. Much like they also scored a gazillion points a game with McDaniels as their O-coordinator but our offense with him running it couldn't even average 20 PPG.

I'd bet that their defense was just as successful with Crennell and Mangina running it, too. Too bad they really haven't done anything since then, though. I could be wrong (and i hope i am if we hire Pees) but you just can't use any former Patriots' performance history (as a coach or player) as a measuring stick of how they'll be elsewhere. They've NEVER measured up.

Well of course Bill has something to do with it, but the point is that the coordinator is going to pick up a lot of stuff from him. That's how coaching trees work.

And I'm really not sure how much you can draw from the other people from Bill that left.

Crennell went to the Browns (who suck) and actually gave them a 10 win season. Mangini went to the Jets and actually got them to the playoffs and were looking pretty good in 08 until Favre got injured. Weiss went to college so that's totally different. They were also head coaches, so I think a DC making a lateral move could work out well.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 06:55 PM
Well of course Bill has something to do with it, but the point is that the coordinator is going to pick up a lot of stuff from him. That's how coaching trees work.

And I'm really not sure how much you can draw from the other people from Bill that left.

Crennell went to the Browns (who suck) and actually gave them a 10 win season. Mangini went to the Jets and actually got them to the playoffs and were looking pretty good in 08 until Favre got injured. Weiss went to college so that's totally different. They were also head coaches, so I think a DC making a lateral move could work out well.

Okay. Crennell - fired. Mangina - fired. Weiss - fired. Yep, that says it all. Especially if, as you say, Crennell and Mangina were relatively successful (10 wins and the playoffs). Did either team actually improve, though or did they all still suck ass when the coaches were fired? Herm Edwards got that same Jets team to the playoffs where they beat the Sparklers in SD without Brett Favre (Chad Pennington).

If you think that what any Bellichick assistant did anywhere to this point has been anything short of failure, than I don't know what to tell you.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 06:59 PM
Okay. Crennell - fired. Mangina - fired. Weiss - fired. Yep, that says it all. Especially if, as you say, Crennell and Mangina were relatively successful (10 wins and the playoffs). Did either team actually improve, though or did they all still suck ass when the coaches were fired? Herm Edwards got that same Jets team to the playoffs where they beat the Sparklers in SD without Brett Favre (Chad Pennington).

If you think that what any Bellichick assistant did anywhere to this point has been anything short of failure, than I don't know what to tell you.

I never said they weren't failures, but like I said, Pees isn't leaving to be a head coach, it's a lateral move to being a DC, so you can't draw comparisons to how they did to him.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 07:04 PM
I never said they weren't failures, but like I said, Pees isn't leaving to be a head coach, it's a lateral move to being a DC, so you can't draw comparisons to how they did to him.

True, but when you see a trend developing that everyone who leaves NE is a "hot commodity" because of the success of that franchise and yet NONE have been successful themselves thusfar (I'm not just talking about guys who've left to be HCs, I'm talking players, coaches, and GMs) then it begins to show a trend.

Throw up a spreadsheet that graphs the overall success of ex-Patriots since 2000 and I'm betting it looks something like this:

\
\
\
\
\
\

:D

Dean
01-21-2010, 07:05 PM
Before the season, I had serious doubts about our defensive front 3. Watching them through the season my opinion of Fields is a little better but the D-ends versus the run are terrible.

If we don't blitz and use players who IMO are backups rather than true starters. How are we going to counter the matchup advantages our opponents will have? If we are to play mano-a-mano defense, we need better manos.

Our blitzes are all that saved us through the first half of the season. It doesn't take much of an offensive coordinator to use those mismatches to his advantage. In order to play the Pats defense, we need the pats D-line.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Before the season, I had serious doubts about our defensive front 3. Watching them through the season my opinion of Fields is a little better but the D-ends versus the run are terrible.

If we don't blitz and use players who IMO are backups rather than true starters. How are we going to counter the matchup advantages our opponents will have? If we are to play mano-a-mano defense, we need better manos.

Our blitzes are all that saved us through the first half of the season. It doesn't take much of an offensive coordinator to use those mismatches to his advantage.

Don't worry, Dean. McDaniels and Pees will completely remake the D-line this year and it will be all better. Well, maybe it'll take next year, too.

Either way, we'll have a completely rebuilt franchise by the end of next season, then we'll see........ :flypig:

Hoser
01-21-2010, 07:17 PM
True, but when you see a trend developing that everyone who leaves NE is a "hot commodity" because of the success of that franchise and yet NONE have been successful themselves thusfar (I'm not just talking about guys who've left to be HCs, I'm talking players, coaches, and GMs) then it begins to show a trend.

Throw up a spreadsheet that graphs the overall success of ex-Patriots since 2000 and I'm betting it looks something like this:

\
\
\
\
\
\

:D

I dunno, Thomas Dimitroff and Ozzie Newsome are both pretty good GM's for the Falcons and Ravens. BB hasn't really been in New England long enough to create a big coaching tree you can follow.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 07:21 PM
Don't worry, Dean. McDaniels and Pees will completely remake the D-line this year and it will be all better. Well, maybe it'll take next year, too.

Either way, we'll have a completely rebuilt franchise by the end of next season, then we'll see........ :flypig:

I'm hoping if Pees and McDaniels get together they can draw Jarvis Green out of New England. Fields did okay this year as a NT but our DE's were awful. Green would be an excellent starter for a few years while we find some players in the draft.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 07:24 PM
I dunno, Thomas Dimitroff and Ozzie Newsome are both pretty good GM's for the Falcons and Ravens. BB hasn't really been in New England long enough to create a big coaching tree you can follow.

Weis, Crennell, Mangina, McDaniels. 4 coordinators that moved on to head coaching this decade. I don't think there's another coach in history (including Bill Walsh) who had that many assistant move on to HC jobs that fast.

Dimitroff's Falcons have had one good season. I really don't consider Ozzie Newsome as a Bellichick product because he's been a football guy all his life. They crossed paths, but he was never a "protege".

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 07:25 PM
I'm hoping if Pees and McDaniels get together they can draw Jarvis Green out of New England. Fields did okay this year as a NT but our DE's were awful. Green would be an excellent starter for a few years while we find some players in the draft.

We need a true NT. Green might help, but I'd be willing to bet the majority of his success was based on Wilfork lining up next to him.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 07:29 PM
Weis, Crennell, Mangina, McDaniels. 4 coordinators that moved on to head coaching this decade. I don't think there's another coach in history (including Bill Walsh) who had that many assistant move on to HC jobs that fast.

Dimitroff's Falcons have had one good season. I really don't consider Ozzie Newsome as a Bellichick product because he's been a football guy all his life. They crossed paths, but he was never a "protege".

Dimitroff's Falcons just had their first back to back winning seasonsever

Again, no point in bringing up the assistant to HC swaps because that's not what Pees would be doing.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 07:31 PM
We need a true NT. Green might help, but I'd be willing to bet the majority of his success was based on Wilfork lining up next to him.

Sure Wilfork helps but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pick him up.

spikerman
01-21-2010, 07:33 PM
The Broncos had the same weaknesses on defense last year, primarily the defensive line. We, the fans knew it. Opposing teams knew it. EVERYBODY knew it. Well, almost everybody it seems. Not only did McDaniels choose not to address the line with anything but backup quality players, he almost completely ignored it imo. I'm not sure how much of a priority DL is to the kid.

Ziggy
01-21-2010, 07:46 PM
The Broncos had the same weaknesses on defense last year, primarily the defensive line. We, the fans knew it. Opposing teams knew it. EVERYBODY knew it. Well, almost everybody it seems. Not only did McDaniels choose not to address the line with anything but backup quality players, he almost completely ignored it imo. I'm not sure how much of a priority DL is to the kid.

The D line had 3 new starters, and some backups. No, McD didn't go get Haynseworth for 100 million, or Canty, who busted in New York, but he upgraded. The fact that he had to upgrade with backups tells you just how talent depleted this defensive line was. There wasn't a ton of options out there last season to address the D line at good value. There should be this year. If he doesn't make a hard run at a couple of them, I'll agree with your assessment of McDaniels priority. Until then, I think he just got value at the postions that value was out there for.

LRtagger
01-21-2010, 08:24 PM
Didn't see it posted. Don't know about you all but I trust Schefter more than any other reporter when it comes to the Broncos.

Straight from SCHEFTER:

"Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on."

HORSEPOWER 56
01-21-2010, 08:53 PM
Didn't see it posted. Don't know about you all but I trust Schefter more than any other reporter when it comes to the Broncos.

Straight from SCHEFTER:

"Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on."

probably about as close to the truth as we'll ever actually get, but if the defense that went from 29th to 7th under Nolan ends up back in suckville, McDaniels' "other option" won't look so good - no matter who that option is.

It's McDaniels' reputation on the line now, not Nolan's.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 09:05 PM
probably about as close to the truth as we'll ever actually get, but if the defense that went from 29th to 7th under Nolan ends up back in suckville, McDaniels' "other option" won't look so good - no matter who that option is.

It's McDaniels' reputation on the line now, not Nolan's.

That #7 ranking is kind of deceiving. The Broncos' passing rank was #3, due
principally to the work of Champ, Goodman, Dawkins, Hill, and Dumervil (which is
why three of them are headed for the Pro Bowl).

The rushing defense was a different story. Its #26 ranking is what dragged the
overall ranking down to #7.

If you have trouble stopping the run, you are not a very good defense. So
Nolan left with some unfinished business that does not look particularly good
on his résumé.

That, too, is deceiving because I believe that was a weakness in talent, not
coaching. But I also believe that doesn't give McDaniels all that much to live
up to . . .

-----

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 09:23 PM
Fact: this writer was suspended for plagiarism in 2007 by the Boston Globe. He no lon ger works for the outfit. He works for the Herald. Think New York Daily Post. Yes, tabloid.

Fact: this writer has been involved in numerous physical altercations, most notably with boxing reporter Michael Katz.

Fact: he cites no source in the article.

But, go ahead and believe this crap over Adam Schefter's report.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 09:30 PM
Fact: this writer was suspended for plagiarism in 2007 by the Boston Globe. He no lon ger works for the outfit. He works for the Herald. Think New York Daily Post. Yes, tabloid.

Fact: this writer has been involved in numerous physical altercations, most notably with boxing reporter Michael Katz.

Fact: he cites no source in the article.

But, go ahead and believe this crap over Adam Schefter's report.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I wish you would quote the post to which
you're alluding. I haven't read the entire thread, and I'm not about to go back
and scour it to see what you are talking about. That could be the case for
others, too . . .

Oh, and I have never gotten the chance to welcome you to the board. :beer:

-----

Hoser
01-21-2010, 09:34 PM
probably about as close to the truth as we'll ever actually get, but if the defense that went from 29th to 7th under Nolan ends up back in suckville, McDaniels' "other option" won't look so good - no matter who that option is.

It's McDaniels' reputation on the line now, not Nolan's.

Just for everyones sake can we say the 12th ranked D? Would you really care if we had somehow had a magical defense that gave up a 98 yard drive everytime but picked the opponent off in the endzone and never ever gave up points but was 32nd in the NFL in yards? No, you certainly wouldn't, so points are what matter. We gave up the 12th most points, so lets stick with that. People were doing the same thing with our offense last year saying we were the #2 offense in 2008 when we were really the 16th scoring offense.

So lets go with he took the 30th D to the 12th D just cause it'll make more sense. I'm not saying it takes away from what he did any less, it just bothers me a little when defenses or offenses are ranked on yards.

Now then, when we say he took the 30th ranked D to 12th, I really don't think it should all be attributed to him.

Did he take...

Marlon McCree (Out of the NFL)
Calvin Lowry (Out of the NFL)
Nate Webster (Out of the NFL)
Dewayne Robertson (Out of the NFL)
Ebenezer Ekuban (Out of the NFL)
John Engleberger (Out of the NFL)

From 30th to 12th?

NoooOooOooO

He took a retooled D with 3 Pro Bowlers and a reserve Pro Bowler in DJ and some legit starters from 30th to 12th. Did he help us a lot? Yes. But any D-coordinator worth his salt should be able to take our defense and make it respectable.

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 09:34 PM
I don't mean to be offensive, but I wish you would quote the post to which
you're alluding. I haven't read the entire thread, and I'm not about to go back
and scour it to see what you are talking about. That could be the case for
others, too . . .

Oh, and I have never gotten the chance to welcome you to the board. :beer:

-----

Uh, you know...the original article posted, which I apparently made the mistake of assuming that that was the topic of the thread.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 09:41 PM
Uh, you know...the original article posted, which I apparently made the mistake of assuming that that was the topic of the thread.

Why the hostility?

topscribe
01-21-2010, 09:42 PM
Uh, you know...the original article posted, which I apparently made the mistake of assuming that that was the topic of the thread.

Oh, okay. I just didn't take it from the first post. That is why, when you get
down to the third page or so, it may be a good idea to at least indicate to what
you are alluding at that point.

I dropped out of Clairvoyance 101 in my freshman year . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/wink-2.gif

-----

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 09:49 PM
My apology. I thought the original post was the topic of the thread.

Any comment on the actual subject of my original post?

Hoser
01-21-2010, 09:55 PM
My apology. I thought the original post was the topic of the thread.

Any comment on the actual subject of my original post?

It's not much of an apology if there's still a little backhanded dash of sarcasm ;)

And I dunno, I didn't really read the full article, I was too lazy. I was just reading peoples reactions, comments, etc. I think Pees will be fine and I like him so I guess it's good the article was written by a bad journalist :D

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:16 PM
It's not much of an apology if there's still a little backhanded dash of sarcasm ;)

And I dunno, I didn't really read the full article, I was too lazy. I was just reading peoples reactions, comments, etc. I think Pees will be fine and I like him so I guess it's good the article was written by a bad journalist :D

With that said, why should I apologize to someone who either a.) Doesn't have the wherewithall to actually read a thread, and b.) doesn't know what the topic of the thread is?

Now that you know what the topic of the thread is and have surely gone back and read the article that the thread is about, do you have any comment?

spikerman
01-21-2010, 10:18 PM
With that said, why should I apologize to someone who either a.) Doesn't have the wherewithall to actually read a thread, and b.) doesn't know what the topic of the thread is?

Now that you know what the topic of the thread is and have surely gone back and read the article that the thread is about, do you have any comment?

Come clean, are you the author of "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? :D

Hoser
01-21-2010, 10:21 PM
With that said, why should I apologize to someone who either a.) Doesn't have the wherewithall to actually read a thread, and b.) doesn't know what the topic of the thread is?

Now that you know what the topic of the thread is and have surely gone back and read the article that the thread is about, do you have any comment?

I dunno, maybe the same reason he wasn't a jerk to you?

And I commented already. I said if all that is true it's good cause I'm not really fond of what the article is preaching.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 10:21 PM
With that said, why should I apologize to someone who either a.) Doesn't have the wherewithall to actually read a thread, and b.) doesn't know what the topic of the thread is?

Now that you know what the topic of the thread is and have surely gone back and read the article that the thread is about, do you have any comment?

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I was only trying to be helpful.

I just don't always have the time to read everything, as you apparently do, because I work . . . :coffee:

-----

Hoser
01-21-2010, 10:24 PM
Here comes the sob story where he's the father of 19 previously homeless children and only has 20 minutes a day to devote to the Broncos...

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I was only trying to be helpful.

I just don't always have the time to read everything, as you apparently do, because I work . . . :coffee:

-----

Well then. Now that you know what the thread is about and have read my original post, do you have any comments that aren't personal in nature?

If not, please take your agenda elsewhere.

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:31 PM
Come clean, are you the author of "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? :D

Any on topic thoughts?

spikerman
01-21-2010, 10:31 PM
Well then. Now that you know what the thread is about and have read my original post, do you have any comments that aren't personal in nature?

If not, please take your agenda elsewhere.

Top has been here as long, or longer, than anyone here. I don't think this is a path you want to follow. I'm guessing by your attitude that you're either a Raiders' fan or 12.

spikerman
01-21-2010, 10:32 PM
Any on topic thoughts?

Nope, just the one posted above.

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:36 PM
Top has been here as long, or longer, than anyone here. I don't think this is a path you want to follow. I'm guessing by your attitude that you're either a Raiders' fan or 12.

I apparently don't understand how this place works.

I was under the impression that when an article was posted we would discuss said article.

I apologize for not knowing that reading threads is optional and making things personal is par for the course.

I will try better next time to not read the thread and make things personal.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 10:43 PM
Fact: this writer was suspended for plagiarism in 2007 by the Boston Globe. He no lon ger works for the outfit. He works for the Herald. Think New York Daily Post. Yes, tabloid.

Fact: this writer has been involved in numerous physical altercations, most notably with boxing reporter Michael Katz.

Fact: he cites no source in the article.

But, go ahead and believe this crap over Adam Schefter's report.

I believe this is your post that you want people to respond to.

I know nothing about this writer's personal life, and I am not sure what that has to do with the article he wrote.

I have not read all of the posts here, but I don't believe everyone is believing this over Schefter's report - the same report I posted that Vic Lombardi had on his Twitter last night.

Also, I really have not read any of your posts in which you are discussing the contents of said article.

red98
01-21-2010, 10:46 PM
I apparently don't understand how this place works.

I was under the impression that when an article was posted we would discuss said article.

I apologize for not knowing that reading threads is optional and making things personal is par for the course.

I will try better next time to not read the thread and make things personal.

Nah, you're doing great! The backhanded, sardonic comments going back and forth in this thread are an Irishman's dream.:D

topscribe
01-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Well then. Now that you know what the thread is about and have read my original post, do you have any comments that aren't personal in nature?

If not, please take your agenda elsewhere.

No agenda. But I understand.

You're having a bad night . . . :)

-----

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:51 PM
I believe this is your post that you want people to respond to.

I know nothing about this writer's personal life, and I am not sure what that has to do with the article he wrote.

I have not read all of the posts here, but I don't believe everyone is believing this over Schefter's report - the same report I posted that Vic Lombardi had on his Twitter last night.

Also, I really have not read any of your posts in which you are discussing the contents of said article.

The writer of the original article seems very much on topic.

I am not.

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:54 PM
You guys are very quick to nake personal comments, whereas I was commenting on the topic of the thread.

Again, I apologize for being off topic.

The topic is now me. Please discuss.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 10:54 PM
The writer of the original article seems very much on topic.

I am not.

AND :confused:

red98
01-21-2010, 10:55 PM
I apparently don't understand how this place works.

I was under the impression that when an article was posted we would discuss said article.

I apologize for not knowing that reading threads is optional and making things personal is par for the course.

I will try better next time to not read the thread and make things personal.

Oh, as to your original post in this thread, I agree that Borges talks out his bum sometimes, but if you think about it, he and Scheft are just spinning the same story different ways.

Scheft says it wasn't "blitzing" but doesn't mention if there was a difference in opinion about the scheme.

Borges says it was "blitzing" as if it was their only difference as regards scheme.

Since Nolan is gone with no regrets from McD, one can presume they had a difference of opinion of some sort for sure.


(I'd really like to see the D line addressed in this off-season, whatever scheme we run)

Welcome to BF!

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 10:57 PM
AND :confused:

Wow.

This is apparently very hard to understand.

I am not the topic of the thread.

The writer and his opinion piece are.

But why read the OP?

j3phr3y
01-21-2010, 11:02 PM
Fact: this writer was suspended for plagiarism in 2007 by the Boston Globe.


Just read up on this here
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1359
this guy shouldn't have a job.

Hoser
01-21-2010, 11:02 PM
You guys are very quick to nake personal comments, whereas I was commenting on the topic of the thread.

Again, I apologize for being off topic.

The topic is now me. Please discuss.

Top just asked you to be clear what exactly you were referring to since it wasn't clear and somebody could have easily posted links to other articles or quotes throughout the thread to offer a differing argument.

You're the one that jumped out with the snide remarks. It would have been much easier to just say "Sorry, I was referring to the original poster". And leave it at that.

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 11:03 PM
Oh, as to your original post in this thread, I agree that Borges talks out his bum sometimes, but if you think about it, he and Scheft are just spinning the same story different ways.

Scheft says it wasn't "blitzing" but doesn't mention if there was a difference in opinion about the scheme.

Borges says it was "blitzing" as if it was their only difference as regards scheme.

Since Nolan is gone with no regrets from McD, one can presume they had a difference of opinion of some sort for sure.


(I'd really like to see the D line addressed in this off-season, whatever scheme we run)

Welcome to BF!

This writer is the only story. There are no sources and no articles addressing the same topic.

He made this story, without sources.

Schefter was simply saying nothing he had heard said this was true. I think there's a huge difference between Schefter and Borges.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 11:05 PM
Top just asked you to be clear what exactly you were referring to since it wasn't clear and somebody could have easily posted links to other articles or quotes throughout the thread to offer a differing argument.

You're the one that jumped out with the snide remarks. It would have been much easier to just say "Sorry, I was referring to the original poster". And leave it at that.

I think this pretty well wraps up this phase of the discussion.

He probably is beginning to feel a bit "ganged up on."

Probably best to get :focus: now . . .

-----

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 11:08 PM
I think this pretty well wraps up this phase of the discussion.

He probably is beginning to feel a bit "ganged up on."

Probably best to get :focus: now . . .

-----

With all of the time discussing me, have you read the original post yet?

Denver Native (Carol)
01-21-2010, 11:09 PM
This writer is the only story. There are no sources and no articles addressing the same topic.

He made this story, without sources.

Schefter was simply saying nothing he had heard said this was true. I think there's a huge difference between Schefter and Borges.

I agree there is a huge difference between Schefter and Borges. However, I believe what Borges wrote was his opinion, which is not unusual for writers to write their own opinion. Read the different sports articles on the Denver Post, and many of them just contain opinions only.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 11:11 PM
With all of the time discussing me, have you read the original post yet?

Nope. You're doing fine.

Carry on . . . :coffee:

-----

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 11:12 PM
I agree there is a huge difference between Schefter and Borges. However, I believe what Borges wrote was his opinion, which is not unusual for writers to write their own opinion. Read the different sports articles on the Denver Post, and many of them just contain opinions only.

Then I. Ask you this question. Other than Borges' opinion have you seen anywhere else that Nolan was let go for blitzing too much?

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 11:15 PM
Nope. You're doing fine.

Carry on . . . :coffee:

-----

I suggest you read the thread before fully commenting.

That's usually how this works.

red98
01-21-2010, 11:16 PM
This writer is the only story. There are no sources and no articles addressing the same topic.

He made this story, without sources.

Schefter was simply saying nothing he had heard said this was true. I think there's a huge difference between Schefter and Borges.

There is definitely a huge diff between them!

I just think maybe Borges maybe spun it too much.

At least one local Broncos writer also said there was a "difference of opinion" betwen Nolan and McD.

(My postion is that McD should do whatever he thinks is best, because it's his ass on the line)

topscribe
01-21-2010, 11:16 PM
I suggest you read the thread before fully commenting.

That's usually how this works.

Thank you, professor.

Now, do you have anything to discuss on the topic? :D



*touché*

-----

sakic_avs
01-21-2010, 11:25 PM
There is definitely a huge diff between them!

I just think maybe Borges maybe spun it too much.

At least one local Broncos writer also said there was a "difference of opinion" betwen Nolan and McD.

(My postion is that McD should do whatever he thinks is best, because it's his ass on the line)

I haven't seen another report about blitzing other than this one. Have you?

That leads me to believe its a lot of speculation by a terrible writer who's lucky to have a job.


Thank you, professor.

Now, do you have anything to discuss on the topic? :D



*touché*-----

I do, and did post on topic, repeatedly. Go read the thread and get back to us.

topscribe
01-21-2010, 11:32 PM
I do, and did post on topic, repeatedly. Go read the thread and get back to us.

Nah. Be my guest.

Have a good night. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

j3phr3y
01-21-2010, 11:35 PM
http://m2.wnymedia.net/files/2009/11/slapfight.jpg

Lonestar
01-22-2010, 12:38 AM
OK FOLKS LETS GET



:focus::

topscribe
01-22-2010, 12:41 AM
OK FOLKS LETS GET



:focus::

Kinda late to the party, arncha? :laugh:

-----

Lonestar
01-22-2010, 12:45 AM
Been busy elsewhere. Just noticed the pissing contest.

topscribe
01-22-2010, 12:47 AM
Been busy elsewhere. Just noticed the pissing contest.

My friend, I didn't even have it unzipped . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/Wink.gif

But I think everyone's gone now. Grab a broom . . .

-----

Hoser
01-22-2010, 12:51 AM
My friend, I didn't even have it unzipped . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/Wink.gif

But I think everyone's gone now. Grab a broom . . .

-----

You clean up pee with a broom?

Weird....

topscribe
01-22-2010, 12:52 AM
You clean up pee with a broom?

Weird....

ROTF!! :lol:

-----

Lonestar
01-22-2010, 01:04 AM
Just read up on this here
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1359
this guy shouldn't have a job.


A cyberspace episode of “24”
Cold, Hard Football Facts for March 6, 2007

This is the story of the little Internet post that took but 24 hours to bloody a Big Bad Bully. It's a pretty compelling case study for those folks interested in the dynamics of the new media and how it interacts with old media.

It's also a story we need to tell in the interest of disclosure.

The Cold, Hard Football Facts are being credited by most for uncovering the copy that led to the suspension of the Boston Globe’s Ron Borges. We certainly played a role.

But the truth is that we were merely the outlet that got the allegations into the hands of the Globe and others in the media around the country … and then got a boatload of people to write about it, talk about it, and, more importantly, complain about it.

But we didn’t exactly dig up the story ourselves.

The credit for that bit of journalistic bulldoggery goes to a random Seattle Seahawks fan from parts unknown who we’ve probably never met and probably never will.

Here’s how the story unfolded – like an intense little episode of “24” that played out in the borderless battleground of cyberspace and ended with an old-media leviathan bloodied and bowed.

We couldn’t begin to identify everywhere the story went. But the basics of how it unfolded are fairly well defined.

7:05 p.m. (Sunday, March 4) (B-hour)
A guy who operates under the handle “SeattleStatman” launches this thread on the Patriots page of the ESPN message boards.

“I noticed the entire first page of the (Borges) article," he writes, "is stolen from a previous article written by a Seahawks beat writer.”

7:36 p.m. (B+31 minutes)
A poster on the same thread named “Roninent73” sends an e-mail to the Cold, Hard Football Facts with links to the two stories.

8:53 p.m. (B+1 hour, 48 minutes)
“Kurt O” sends us another e-mail with the same links.

9:40 p.m. (B+2:35)
After interrupting what should have been a pleasurable evening of watching “The Dark Ages” on the History Channel, the Cold, Hard Football Facts publish a story with a comparison of the two articles sent to us that evening. Our story essentially amounted to copying and pasting both articles and placing them side by side. And, you know, attributing where they came from.

10:04 p.m. (B+2:59)
The Cold, Hard Football Facts send an e-mail blast to several thousand readers and hundreds of sports media members around the country with links to our report.

10:13 p.m. (B+3:08)
Reader Steve Downer fires off the first of what will be a wave of mostly angry e-mails sent to Boston Globe executives over the next 20-odd hours. At the same minute, “Roninent73” on the ESPN message boards announces that “CHFF is after Borges now.”

10:26 p.m. (B+3:21)
The CHFF report quickly starts to spread through the voracious chat-board community with a thread on the Web site PatriotsPlanet.net. “Our long regional nightmare is over” reads the thread title, highlighting in no uncertain terms how the public in the Boston area felt about the belligerent Globe reporter.

10:55 p.m. (B+3:50)
Executive editor Dave Zeeck of the Tacoma News Tribune is the first in the media to respond to us. His message is short: “Thanks; we’ll look further.”

11:31 p.m. (B+4:26)
“Seattlefan2007” is the first to get the article into the hands of Washington football fans with a link on ESPN’s Seahawks message board.

11 p.m. to 1 a.m.
After missing its first showing, the Cold, Hard Football Facts catch a repeat showing of “The Dark Ages” on the aforementioned History Channel. E-mails from readers begin to trickle into Globe and CHFF cardboard-box world headquarters overnight.

6:40 a.m. (Monday, March 5) (B+11:35)
Popular BostonSportsMedia.com becomes the first alternative sports media outlet to link to the Cold, Hard Football Facts report.

7:13 a.m. (B+12:08)
CHFF publisher Kerry J. Byrne takes a phone call from Boston sports radio WEEI producer Steve Ciaccio. Within minutes, Byrne, an occasional WEEI guest, is on the air discussing the story with hosts John Dennis and Gerry Callahan.

Monday a.m.
People stumble into work and look for ways to avoid doing their jobs. Hundreds of chat boards, Web sites and forums from coast to coast get lit up like the CHFF crew at our annual holiday party with posts, links and e-mails about the story flying through cyberspace.

11:08 a.m. (B+16:03)
Blogger Adam Reilly of the Boston Phoenix becomes perhaps the first non-sports media member to hop on the bandwagon.

around 11:10 a.m. (B+16:05)
Byrne completes a phone call with a sports-industry insider who revealed to us that Borges had culled the copied copy from a network used by football writers to exchange notes and information. The Globe and Tacoma News Tribune later confirm that is, in fact, where the copied copy changed hands. (Which apparently means that we beat the old media on that story, too.)

11:50 a.m. (B+16:45)
Popular sports site Deadspin.com reports on “Borges’ Cut-And-Paste Job.”

1:23 p.m. (B+18:18)
As plagiarism talk gobbles up space on Boston Globe message boards, an e-mailer named Dave sends us this message: “You'll find it funny how quickly the Globe is deleting any reference to Borges' plagiarism off of their message boards. I've seen at least a dozen disappear in the last 30 minutes.”

1:51 p.m. (B+18:46)
Popular site ProFootballTalk.com wonders “Is Borges down for the count?” (playing off our original lede and our frequent boxing metaphors when discussing Borges, a former prize pugilist).

2:10 p.m. (B+19:05)
Media heavyweight Editor & Publisher, which touts itself as “America’s Oldest Journal Covering the Newspaper Industry,” reports that “Plagiarism Allegations Hit ‘Boston Globe’ Football Writer.”

2:17 p.m. (B+19:12)
Boston Herald media reporter Jessica Heslam weighs in for the first time.

3:15 p.m. (B+20:10)
Blogger David Scott becomes the first in the media to demand that the Globe fire or suspend Borges.

5:45 p.m. (B+22:40)
Borges serves as a human piñata on the popular “Whiner Line” on sports radio WEEI in Boston.

7:54 p.m. (B+24:49)
The Boston Globe announces that it has suspended Ron Borges for two months, without pay – just 24 hours and 49 minutes after some guy named “SeattleStatman” posted his links on an ESPN message board.

***
Postscript: Borges briefly returned to work at the Boston Globe in May 2007. However, within days he was gone from the newspaper.

Dean
01-22-2010, 07:59 AM
What is your point? He plagarized. He didn't write false information. Whether it was his or another persoms ideas they were still factual.

sakic_avs
01-22-2010, 08:46 AM
What is your point? He plagarized. He didn't write false information. Whether it was his or another persoms ideas they were still factual.

If they are factual, where are the sources?

Not one person, including the writer has produced a source.

Superchop 7
01-22-2010, 11:11 AM
:rolleyes:
Before the season, I had serious doubts about our defensive front 3. Watching them through the season my opinion of Fields is a little better but the D-ends versus the run are terrible.

If we don't blitz and use players who IMO are backups rather than true starters. How are we going to counter the matchup advantages our opponents will have? If we are to play mano-a-mano defense, we need better manos.

Our blitzes are all that saved us through the first half of the season. It doesn't take much of an offensive coordinator to use those mismatches to his advantage. In order to play the Pats defense, we need the pats D-line.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

Hammer hits nail.

I was wondering what the hell was going on with Nolan during the KC game, now I know, he was doing what the head coach wanted, no run blitz.

It's a good thing we shut down KC's run game with that approach, Josh certainly knows defense. (His dad is a high school coach)

I laugh every time I hear a media guy say that they had a problem with their "philosophies" like it was a discussion between Joel Collier and Buddy Ryan.

Someone please get the word out to Rex Ryan than blitzing is a bad approach, his defense is rated pretty low.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-22-2010, 11:34 AM
I prefer to believe people who have MUCH more insite on the Broncos, such as Schefter and Vic Lombardi:

http://twitter.com/VicLombardi

Despite what you've read, the blitz package had nothing to do with McD-Nolan divorce. Just two different coaching styles. 10:34 AM Jan 20th from UberTwitter

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

Hearing Broncos-Mike Nolan breakup had nothing to do with blitzing more or less. Nolan had another option, so did McDaniels. Each moved on. 9:56 AM Jan 20th from web

ALSO:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Glazer-Denver-Broncos-Mike-Nolan-parting-ways-011810

It’s unknown why the two decided to part ways but Nolan now becomes the hottest defensive coaching candidate on the open market. Teams that need coordinators include the Dolphins, Bills and Bears.

CoachChaz
01-22-2010, 11:46 AM
Even if we dwell on the blitzing, it's really just like any other scheme on either side of the ball. if you do something long enough...teams are going to expose it. The blitzing did eventually hurt us against the run...but on the other hand, what other choice did we have?

Just comes down to not having enough everall talent...yet. I believe that will change

Denver Native (Carol)
01-22-2010, 12:06 PM
Nolan is gone, regardless what the reason was - can't be changed - time to move on.

Dean
01-22-2010, 09:39 PM
Yes, but now and then one has to ask himself whether we are moving on or falling back. At this point, I don't see anything that I can look at and tell myself that we are definitely on the up swing.

What was a strong offense is now weak. A bottom dweller defense made strides but now loses the architect of that resurgence.

Yes, it's too early to be sure but it looks like last year's draft was weak and we mortgaged a first round pick from this year.

I look for something to hang my hat on but all that's there is turmoil and questions. I'm a coach and I realize that you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs but where is evidence of the omelet?

Lonestar
01-22-2010, 09:49 PM
Coach you say that we have not progressed with the offense it is worse than before.

Are you telling me that you thought we should have:


kept jay at all costs.

kept jay hoping he would come around.

kept jay and gotten rid of Josh.

stayed with mikes Offense.


Because we both know that jay would not have been a good fit in this O if his HEAD was not in it. I also suspect that he and Josh would have been at each others throats all year.



You do not feel this Offense being brand new to EVERYONE but gaffney, morris and Josh did not make any progress over the season.

That IF we fix our achiles heels on the LOS. that we will not be better.

That a year under there belts will no allow EVERYONE to have more confidence playing it.

Even an omelet needs time to cook.

Dean
01-22-2010, 10:31 PM
Coach you say that we have not progressed with the offense it is worse than before.

Are you telling me that you thought we should have:


kept jay at all costs.

kept jay hoping he would come around.

kept jay and gotten rid of Josh.

stayed with mikes Offense.


Because we both know that jay would not have been a good fit in this O if his HEAD was not in it. I also suspect that he and Josh would have been at each others throats all year.



You do not feel this Offense being brand new to EVERYONE but gaffney, morris and Josh did not make any progress over the season.

That IF we fix our achiles heels on the LOS. that we will not be better.

That a year under there belts will no allow EVERYONE to have more confidence playing it.

Even an omelet needs time to cook.

I don't remember mentioning Cutler or making any impication about him.

No, I do not think the offense made progress over the season. Do you?

Last year it appeared that our Achilles Heel was the D-line. Did he fix that?

I don't order confidence omelets. I get the solid evidence W :D ones.



I have got to post this. http://www.drewlitton.com/

sakic_avs
01-23-2010, 02:52 AM
Just curious. Has anyone found the source for the author's gross assumptions?

Lonestar
01-23-2010, 06:13 AM
Yes, but now and then one has to ask himself whether we are moving on or falling back. At this point, I don't see anything that I can look at and tell myself that we are definitely on the up swing.

What was a strong offense is now weak. A bottom dweller defense made strides but now loses the architect of that resurgence.

Yes, it's too early to be sure but it looks like last year's draft was weak and we mortgaged a first round pick from this year.

I look for something to hang my hat on but all that's there is turmoil and questions. I'm a coach and I realize that you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs but where is evidence of the omelet?


Coach you say that we have not progressed with the offense it is worse than before.

Are you telling me that you thought we should have:


kept jay at all costs.

kept jay hoping he would come around.

kept jay and gotten rid of Josh.

stayed with mikes Offense.


Because we both know that jay would not have been a good fit in this O if his HEAD was not in it. I also suspect that he and Josh would have been at each others throats all year.



You do not feel this Offense being brand new to EVERYONE but gaffney, morris and Josh did not make any progress over the season.

That IF we fix our achiles heels on the LOS. that we will not be better.

That a year under there belts will no allow EVERYONE to have more confidence playing it.

Even an omelet needs time to cook.


I don't remember mentioning Cutler or making any impication about him.

No, I do not think the offense made progress over the season. Do you?

Last year it appeared that our Achilles Heel was the D-line. Did he fix that?

I don't order confidence omelets. I get the solid evidence W :D ones.



I have got to post this. http://www.drewlitton.com/

Perhaps you did not mention him by name but what else could you have been aluding to in the hilited comment. it certainly was not the running game the only thing we had going for us in 08 was jay to royal and marshal with an occasional shot to scheffler.

that was our offense last year except for Hillis being the leading rusher.

As for do I think our O made progress this year? Absolutely we are a better O than we were going into TC. considering the massive changes in scheme and personnel that had to learn it.

We will be stronger next year because everyone will have time in the offseason to study film and they can build on that in the spring OTAs and TC for a much better start next season.

As for the DL No he did not fix mikes achillies heel. and that is what it was a failure of the past ten years to address it with competent day one picks. HIS DC wanted fields and who knows for sure if he wanted anyone else. Just like Bates wanted the 3 we got in 2007, so mike got them for him.

The GM and Josh got him what he asked for sure in Fields beyond that NO one here knows what he asked for in DL help.

Rome was not built in a day and Omelets take time to cook.

I still need to ask did you expect Josh to stay with mikes O when he came in? Would you have been comfortable with him keeping the D?

If you did then why fire mike?

If Pat did not want change he would have kept mike but he KNEW that things had to change and I believe he signed on for Joshes O and his ideas on how to make this a great team again.

That is what I believe and IF you do not get it then we will have to agree to disagree.

Dean
01-23-2010, 09:01 AM
Perhaps you did not mention him by name but what else could you have been aluding to in the hilited comment. it certainly was not the running game the only thing we had going for us in 08 was jay to royal and marshal with an occasional shot to scheffler.

that was our offense last year except for Hillis being the leading rusher.

I was alluding to the fact that we were lower this year in in almost every offensive catagory except field position. If you like I can post them again. I'm not trying to be a smart alect but IMO they tell the story of where we currently are at.


As for do I think our O made progress this year? Absolutely we are a better O than we were going into TC. considering the massive changes in scheme and personnel that had to learn it.

We will be stronger next year because everyone will have time in the offseason to study film and they can build on that in the spring OTAs and TC for a much better start next season.

Training camp? From game 1 to game 16 I saw no progress. Maybe we will be stronger; maybe we won't. I was discussing what had occurred during the games that count.


As for the DL No he did not fix mikes achillies heel. and that is what it was a failure of the past ten years to address it with competent day one picks. HIS DC wanted fields and who knows for sure if he wanted anyone else. Just like Bates wanted the 3 we got in 2007, so mike got them for him.

The GM and Josh got him what he asked for sure in Fields beyond that NO one here knows what he asked for in DL help.

That was simply an example I used to show that there is past history to show that there is no guarantee our most glaring weakness will be addressed.


Rome was not built in a day and Omelets take time to cook.

. . . but you can see and smell them cooking. Where is the evidence? If I am wrong, show me the concrete evidence.


I still need to ask did you expect Josh to stay with mikes O when he came in? Would you have been comfortable with him keeping the D?

If you did then why fire mike?

My guess is he wanted a better team. To me, it looks like he came up snake eyes and that is what is behind my posts. I want the team to do well at least as badly as the next guy and far more than most.


If Pat did not want change he would have kept mike but he KNEW that things had to change and I believe he signed on for Joshes O and his ideas on how to make this a great team again.

IMO Pat wanted positive change and my original statement was that I didn't see any evidence of it.


That is what I believe and IF you do not get it then we will have to agree to disagree.

That's not a problem. I don't mind that anyone, even old friends, disagree with me but I will state my opinion and expect them to state theirs.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-23-2010, 11:35 AM
Just curious. Has anyone found the source for the author's gross assumptions?

The following from his article have been stated by others also:

McDaniels hired Nolan at the suggestion of the agent they both share

AND

By then, the Buffalo Bills and Miami Dolphins formally asked permission to interview Nolan and the Chicago Bears sent out feelers.

For the rest in his article, I would imagine that it is either Borges' opinions, or he is assuming the rest.

frauschieze
01-23-2010, 12:03 PM
Just curious. Has anyone found the source for the author's gross assumptions?

:doh:

Do you know how sources work for journalism? Why they are rarely revealed?

You can whine about sources for Borges' article all you want, but the fact is, you're never going to find out. Let it go already.

TXBRONC
01-23-2010, 12:27 PM
Training camp? From game 1 to game 16 I saw no progress. Maybe we will be stronger; maybe we won't. I was discussing what had occurred during the games that count.

I agree the offense did not show any improvement as the year wore on. If fact over the last quarter of the season the running game actually got worse.

turftoad
01-23-2010, 12:40 PM
I think the article is spot on.

claymore
01-25-2010, 04:01 PM
Ravens reel in Pees
Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2010 3:56 PM ET
We recently reported that former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees was not a candidate to assume the same position in Denver because he had lined up something else.

Per a league source, Pees will be the new linebackers coach in Baltimore.

The status of Ravens linebackers coach Vic Fangio, who has worked for the team since 2006, isn't known.


Permalink 0 Comments Latest stories in: Baltimore Ravens, Denver Broncos, Latest News and Rumors, NFL Mobile Exclusives - Rumors, New England Patriots, Top Stories
Previous: Bills should have hired Gailey earlier

claymore
01-25-2010, 04:02 PM
So we either didnt want Pee's or... He would rather be a LB'er coach than our DC.

Nomad
01-25-2010, 04:08 PM
So we either didnt want Pee's or... He would rather be a LB'er coach than our DC.

Should be a easy job being he'll have Lewis and Suggs as his LBers...he won't have to do anything and still get paid pretty good!!

Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2010, 04:58 PM
So we either didnt want Pee's or... He would rather be a LB'er coach than our DC.

I have not found any article that said Coach McD had stated he was going to interview Pees, any article that said Coach McD stated that he was leaning towards Pees - I think it was all SPECULATION by press, that Coach McD would bring Pees to Denver, as they both had worked together at NE.

claymore
01-25-2010, 05:01 PM
I have not found any article that said Coach McD had stated he was going to interview Pees, any article that said Coach McD stated that he was leaning towards Pees - I think it was all SPECULATION by press, that Coach McD would bring Pees to Denver, as they both had worked together at NE.

Pure speculation. There was speculation that we reached out and he said no. Then this surfaced today.

NightTrainLayne
01-25-2010, 05:03 PM
So, with this I have to wonder if McD isn't wanting to interview someone in the playoffs. Martindale still hasn't officially been named the DC. Obviously, Pees wasn't seriously considered.

You'd think that if McD was sold on Martindale that he'd have already made it official.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2010, 05:17 PM
So, with this I have to wonder if McD isn't wanting to interview someone in the playoffs. Martindale still hasn't officially been named the DC. Obviously, Pees wasn't seriously considered.

You'd think that if McD was sold on Martindale that he'd have already made it official.

I think it was Reggie Rivers last night who stated that Coach McD could be waiting to interview an assistant(s) from the remaining teams.

LRtagger
01-25-2010, 05:21 PM
So, with this I have to wonder if McD isn't wanting to interview someone in the playoffs. Martindale still hasn't officially been named the DC. Obviously, Pees wasn't seriously considered.

You'd think that if McD was sold on Martindale that he'd have already made it official.

Perhaps they are still hashing out a contract.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-25-2010, 05:36 PM
Pees is replacing Fangio at Baltimore, but I can not find any information on why Fangio was replaced at Baltimore?????????

Lonestar
01-25-2010, 05:39 PM
Pees is replacing Fangio at Baltimore, but I can not find any information on why Fangio was replaced at Baltimore?????????


Lewis threatened to shot him or have him shot by one of his buds:laugh:

spikerman
01-25-2010, 06:38 PM
I think it was Reggie Rivers last night who stated that Coach McD could be waiting to interview an assistant(s) from the remaining teams.
That would be interesting since both remaining teams play a 4-3. hmmmm

frauschieze
01-25-2010, 06:50 PM
It may be that Pees didn't want another DC job because of the health issues he's had the last year. Taking a step down to being a LB coach should decrease his stress level.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-25-2010, 06:51 PM
I nominate that the thread title be changed to "Pees may have trouble finding Denver".

:whoo:

Cugel
01-25-2010, 07:47 PM
Before the season, I had serious doubts about our defensive front 3. Watching them through the season my opinion of Fields is a little better but the D-ends versus the run are terrible.

If we don't blitz and use players who IMO are backups rather than true starters. How are we going to counter the matchup advantages our opponents will have? If we are to play mano-a-mano defense, we need better manos.

Our blitzes are all that saved us through the first half of the season. It doesn't take much of an offensive coordinator to use those mismatches to his advantage. In order to play the Pats defense, we need the pats D-line.

It takes some time to train 3-4 DEs -- according to the Steelers' defensive coaches.

The idea is that you can get better play out of guys who are good against the run, but not much as pass-rushers because 3-4 DEs mostly just take up blockers and allow the LBs to make plays (worked for Dumervil).

I don't know that going out and using high draft choices on a 3-4 DE like KC did two years in a row is a good idea either. They are spending $50 million guaranteed on Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey -- which isn't working out that great. In fact it's looking a lot like those other two "mistakes by the lake" -- Cleveland's Gerrard Warren and Courtney Brown taken #4 and #1 in the draft in successive years.

We'll see of course if the Broncos can find better DEs, but what they really need is a total STUD NT like a Haloti Ngata. Problem is every other 3-4 team wants the same thing and the one guy who might very well be that: # Ndamukong Suh (DT)
# 2. Detroit or Gerald McCoy (DT) will probably go 1-2 in the draft.

Neither one is coming to Denver. Which leaves the question -- will there be a NT worth drafting with the #10 or #11 pick?

Medford Bronco
01-25-2010, 07:58 PM
It takes some time to train 3-4 DEs -- according to the Steelers' defensive coaches.

The idea is that you can get better play out of guys who are good against the run, but not much as pass-rushers because 3-4 DEs mostly just take up blockers and allow the LBs to make plays (worked for Dumervil).

I don't know that going out and using high draft choices on a 3-4 DE like KC did two years in a row is a good idea either. They are spending $50 million guaranteed on Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey -- which isn't working out that great. In fact it's looking a lot like those other two "mistakes by the lake" -- Cleveland's Gerrard Warren and Courtney Brown taken #4 and #1 in the draft in successive years.

We'll see of course if the Broncos can find better DEs, but what they really need is a total STUD NT like a Haloti Ngata. Problem is every other 3-4 team wants the same thing and the one guy who might very well be that: # Ndamukong Suh (DT)
# 2. Detroit or Gerald McCoy (DT) will probably go 1-2 in the draft.

Neither one is coming to Denver. Which leaves the question -- will there be a NT worth drafting with the #10 or #11 pick?

Can we steal Dick Lebeau to be our D coordinator. lol

LRtagger
01-25-2010, 08:46 PM
I nominate that the thread title be changed to "Pees may have trouble finding Denver".

:whoo:

"Dean Pees on the Ravens, not Broncos"

:first:

T.K.O.
01-25-2010, 10:17 PM
I nominate that the thread title be changed to "Pees may have trouble finding Denver".

:whoo:

still better than" having trouble peeing in denver":beer: