PDA

View Full Version : New Information On The Nolan Affair



topscribe
01-20-2010, 10:37 AM
From NFL.com:



Nolan’s jump from Denver to Miami clarified

Posted: January 19th, 2010 | Steve Wyche

With speculation surrounding why Mike Nolan decided to leave the Broncos for
a lateral move to become the Dolphins’ defensive coordinator, here’s some
clarity from what I’ve learned after speaking to sources close to the situation:

* There is no acrimony between Nolan and Broncos coach Josh McDaniels.
The Dolphins sent the Broncos a written request to interview Nolan. McDaniels
approached Nolan with the request and, in a nutshell, asked him if he’d rather
be in Miami or Denver. Nolan said he would like to interview with the Dolphins.
McDaniels then granted Nolan permission and wished him well.

* The Broncos have allowed their assistants to interview for jobs with other
teams this offseason, taking the position that if a coach has an opportunity
for a promotion, it wouldn’t stand in the way. That it did the same for Nolan
to make a lateral move was somewhat interesting.

* Possibly factoring into Nolan’s decision, his contract with the Broncos
supposedly was set to expire after next season, as will a lot of the team’s
assistant coaches’ deals. With the possibility of a work stoppage, Nolan
foresaw being able to negotiate a contract that would pay him through a
lockout with the Dolphins, should the NFL and the NFL Players Association not
be able to finalize a labor deal before the 2011 season.

* With a deal coming together so quickly with the Dolphins –- one day after
Nolan split from Denver –- parameters of a deal had to have been in place
before or shortly after he left the Broncos.


http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/01/19/nolans-jump-from-denver-to-miami-clarified/


Kind of a knock in the head to those who want to blame McDaniels, isn't it?

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 10:46 AM
From NFL.com:



http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/01/19/nolans-jump-from-denver-to-miami-clarified/


Kind of a knock in the head to those who want to blame McDaniels, isn't it?

-----

The thought of the Broncos releasing their DC because it was the nice thing to do is ridiculous.

SOCALORADO.
01-20-2010, 10:49 AM
The thought of the Broncos releasing their DC because it was the nice thing to do is ridiculous.

I just high 5'd you. Take a picture.

shank
01-20-2010, 10:50 AM
The thought of the Broncos releasing their DC because it was the nice thing to do is ridiculous.

i agree. i'm not saying i blame mcd for forcing nolan to leave, but i definitely blame him for letting him leave. nolan is a great DC, he should have fought to keep him in denver.

claymore
01-20-2010, 10:52 AM
I just high 5'd you. Take a picture.

I did a screen capture, printed 2 copies. 1 for my wallet, and one for my safe deposit box. :D

topscribe
01-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Before, McDaniels couldn't get along with anybody.

Now, he is a bad guy because he's a nice guy.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :tsk:

-----

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 11:00 AM
There was only one year left on Nolan's contract.

How much do we gain by hand-cuffing him to us for a year? One year from now we're in the same spot anyway, or we get started with a new DC now and are already through the change by next off-season?

I don't know the answer, but it's not like Nolan had a long-term contract with us, and according to this article, Nolan saw value in having a contract guaranteed through the 2011 season.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 11:03 AM
'The Dolphins sent the Broncos a written request to interview Nolan. McDaniels
approached Nolan with the request and, in a nutshell, asked him if he’d rather
be in Miami or Denver. Nolan said he would like to interview with the Dolphins.
McDaniels then granted Nolan permission and wished him well.'

So, if this is correct, when Coach ask Nolan if he'd rather be in Miami or Denver, and Nolan stated he would like to interview with the Dolphins, the Coach should have said - "I don't care what you would like to do, you are STAYING with the Broncos"????? - Boy, would that have made a GREAT working relationship.

To me it is obvious that Nolan and the Dolphins had contact before the request came to the Broncos, and it was basically a "done deal". You just do not hammer out all the details in 5 minutes. Nolan had his mind made up BEFORE the request came in, and I don't believe anything that Coach McD said would have CHANGED Nolan's mind.

Buff
01-20-2010, 11:08 AM
i agree. i'm not saying i blame mcd for forcing nolan to leave, but i definitely blame him for letting him leave. nolan is a great DC, he should have fought to keep him in denver.

If he wanted to leave then he wanted to leave. I also believe there is some truth to what Klis wrote about Nolan wanting more autonomy and McD wanting to be more hands on.

No need to force a relationship that wasn't going to work long term.

claymore
01-20-2010, 11:09 AM
Before, McDaniels couldn't get along with anybody.

Now, he is a bad guy because he's a nice guy.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :tsk:

-----
Poor McDaniels. :rolleyes:


There was only one year left on Nolan's contract.

How much do we gain by hand-cuffing him to us for a year? One year from now we're in the same spot anyway, or we get started with a new DC now and are already through the change by next off-season?

I don't know the answer, but it's not like Nolan had a long-term contract with us, and according to this article, Nolan saw value in having a contract guaranteed through the 2011 season.

There was only one year left on Marshalls deal we should have let him go to?

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 11:10 AM
From NFL.com:



http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/01/19/nolans-jump-from-denver-to-miami-clarified/


Kind of a knock in the head to those who want to blame McDaniels, isn't it?

-----

How is this a knock in the head to those blaming Mcd? Why did Nolan want to leave? Why did the others? Why is the list of people who want to stay with Mcd getting smaller and smaller?

LordTrychon
01-20-2010, 11:10 AM
But the 'reason' he wanted to leave was for a contract through the 2011 potential stoppage. That's complete speculation. They're 'guessing' that it's the reason Nolan wanted out... and yes, I believe Carol is right. He had already decided he wanted to leave.

Is it possible that he simply wanted to leave because we wouldn't extend him? Yes.

Is it certain?

No.

He certainly did want to leave though.

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 11:13 AM
To me it is obvious that Nolan and the Dolphins had contact before the request came to the Broncos, and it was basically a "done deal". You just do not hammer out all the details in 5 minutes. Nolan had his mind made up BEFORE the request came in, and I don't believe anything that Coach McD said would have CHANGED Nolan's mind.

If tampering would have occured, trust me, boy wonder would have cried foul, face it he's proven he loves to do that.

Nolan wanted out so I'm glad he got his wish but you have to wonder why? Why did yet another coach who loves this city and it's fans opt out?

topscribe
01-20-2010, 11:14 AM
How is this a knock in the head to those blaming Mcd? Why did Nolan want to leave? Why did the others? Why is the list of people who want to stay with Mcd getting smaller and smaller?

I guess it would be a good idea for you to start reading some reports, etc.?

I mean reading out of them, not into them . . .

-----

Tom Nalen
01-20-2010, 11:14 AM
I say if you don't want to be coaching here, then screw you. We need coaches who are committed to the team for long-term. Not someone who would spent the year here while the players and other coaches knew he would rather be coaching a different defense. Thanks Nolan for the 26th ranked rush defense and good luck in Miami -_-

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 11:20 AM
I guess it would be a good idea for you to start reading some reports, etc.?

I mean reading out of them, not into them . . .

-----

I could say the same back to you. I do read the reports, I watch every game, I watch every press conference and do it all over again in my free time.

Go ahead and keep a blind eye on Mcd. I'll continue to call it like I see it.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 11:21 AM
Here is Mark Cooper's take on the coaching moves

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mark_cooper/coaching-moves-this-weeks-picks/

Congrats to Coaches Dennison, Nolan and Turner. It’s part of the game. I like how the press and everyone jumps to conclusions and wants to point a finger for a coaching change and make a big deal out of it. That’s coaching. One of the main reasons I didn’t go into coaching after football. Someone else is in control of your destiny. Personal choice, that’s all.

Coach Turner is working his way to a head job and deservedly so as the associate head coach in Washington. Rick Dennison and Gary Kubiak go way back to the days we all played together here in the 80’s and he’ll be Gary’s offensive coordinator….kinda figured that was coming. I also think Rick will be a head coach at some point too. Smart guy. Played against him.

Coach Nolan….difference of approach than the head coach? Maybe, but it’s Coach McDaniels Team. He makes the calls and has to live and die by them. The NFL (Not For Long) League is not very forgiving for players and coaches. I run a business like a team, if I can upgrade my staff or have someone that’s not on the same page, you have to make a change.

The NFL is worse. You win or you get fired, traded or cut. (been there done that) Dan Reeves and I didn’t see things the same way and I asked to be cut or traded. Tampa was where I landed. Look at all the head coaching changes already. Tougher business than you’d think. It’s easy to second guess folks, but when you’re in the head coaches seat…it’s always hot. I say, CONGRATS and good luck to each of them. Thanks for your time here. Each has a lot to offer under the right scenario for them.

claymore
01-20-2010, 11:24 AM
I say if you don't want to be coaching here, then screw you. We need coaches who are committed to the team for long-term. Not someone who would spent the year here while the players and other coaches knew he would rather be coaching a different defense. Thanks Nolan for the 26th ranked rush defense and good luck in Miami -_-
You have to have a good environment to attract and keep top talent. If we (Broncos) truly cared about people wanting to stay or go once they were under contract then Marshall Sheff, and probably Hillis would all have been released.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 11:25 AM
I could say the same back to you. I do read the reports, I watch every game, I watch every press conference and do it all over again in my free time.

Go ahead and keep a blind eye on Mcd. I'll continue to call it like I see it.

I think now you're making blind accusations. Although I have thrown my support
behind McDaniels, I have had relatively little to say in the controversy. When I
have spoken, I have tried to show some balance, and every single thing I have
said has not necessarily been complimentary toward McDaniels. So I don't
appreciate your "blind eye" insinuation at all.

I was making an observation, not taking a position. Had the blog indicated
other than it did, I might as well have said, "Kind of a knock in the head to
those who want to absolve McDaniels of any blame, isn't it?"

I have been known to present evidence contrary to what I had previously
had argued.

-----

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Poor McDaniels. :rolleyes:



There was only one year left on Marshalls deal we should have let him go to?

Player's contracts and the CBA are completely different than Coaching contracts. To compare the two is silly.

Coaches are ALWAYS unrestricted free agents. There's no ability to trade or gain draft picks in RFA.

If Nolan wanted to leave, then the best we could hope for is to hand-cuff him to us for another year until his contract ran out. And how productive is he going to be if he doesn't want to be here?

topscribe
01-20-2010, 11:47 AM
duh...because top said so



Refer to Post #19 and try to read something.

Damn. :tsk:

Contribute to the thread.

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 11:52 AM
Player's contracts and the CBA are completely different than Coaching contracts. To compare the two is silly.

Coaches are ALWAYS unrestricted free agents. There's no ability to trade or gain draft picks in RFA.

If Nolan wanted to leave, then the best we could hope for is to hand-cuff him to us for another year until his contract ran out. And how productive is he going to be if he doesn't want to be here?

He would have been productive. It is his livlihood to produce results. If he quit, and the defense sucked it would ave looked bad at him and been a blotch on his resume.

Coaches are not always UFA. Until they fulfil their contractual requirements, or are fired they are RFA's, and their is no trade deadline.

A smart HC that had this organization in mind would have garnered a draft pick in return for Nolans services, or... Made him fullfill the remainder of his contract.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 11:56 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/19/report-nolan-left-denver-after-dolphins-sought-permission-to-interview-him/

The sudden departure of defensive coordinator Mike Nolan from the Broncos raised plenty of eyebrows around the league.

Why would Nolan want out of Denver? And why would Broncos coach Josh McDaniels let him go?

Steve Wyche of NFL.com has some answers. But, as is often the case in matters of this nature, the answers only give rise to more questions.

Per Wyche, the Dolphins submitted to the Broncos a written request to interview Nolan. McDaniels then asked Nolan whether he prefers to be with the Broncos or the Dolphins, and Nolan chose the Dolphins.

So McDaniels and the Broncos let him walk.

But how exactly did Nolan know that he'd get the job in Miami? And why in the hell would the Dolphins submit a request to interview Denver's defensive coordinator for the very same job in Miami?

Usually, such requests are made when the position would entail a promotion, like when McDaniels allowed offensive line coach Rick Dennison to leave Denver to become the offensive coordinator of the Texans, or when McDaniels eventually decided to allow running backs coach Bobby Turner to augment his position with the title of associate head coach in D.C.

So we're supposed to believe that the Dolphins took a shot in the dark in the hopes the Broncos would allow Nolan to make a lateral move to a team with which Denver potentially competes every year for wild-card positioning and/or home-field advantage, and Nolan took a leap of faith that by walking from the Broncos he'd have an equivalent job in Miami.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Dolphins contacted Nolan to work out a tentative deal, if Miami could persuade the Broncos to let Nolan walk. Of course, that would be tampering, but the Broncos apparently didn't have the desire to claim that the Dolphins had unauthorized contact with Nolan.

Even if that's precisely what occurred.

SOCALORADO.
01-20-2010, 11:57 AM
He would have been productive. It is his livlihood to produce results. If he quit, and the defense sucked it would ave looked bad at him and been a blotch on his resume.

Coaches are not always UFA. Until they fulfil their contractual requirements, or are fired they are RFA's, and their is no trade deadline.

A smart HC that had this organization in mind would have garnered a draft pick in return for Nolans services, or... Made him fullfill the remainder of his contract.

Man, i must be in the "Twilight Zone". Another high 5!!!!!!!!!!!

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 11:57 AM
Player's contracts and the CBA are completely different than Coaching contracts. To compare the two is silly.

Coaches are ALWAYS unrestricted free agents. There's no ability to trade or gain draft picks in RFA.

If Nolan wanted to leave, then the best we could hope for is to hand-cuff him to us for another year until his contract ran out. And how productive is he going to be if he doesn't want to be here?


really? chuck had a year left in his contract to

Malcolm Glazer got what he so desperately desired a few years ago when that noted West Coast auctioneer, Al Davis, bartered away Jon Gruden to the over-eager Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner for a staggering price: two first-round draft choices, a pair of second-rounders and a Warren Sapp-hefty $8 million
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2006-10-10-gruden-deal_x.htm

if nolan wanted to leave for job security...AND OUR BOY WONDER TRUELY WANTED HIM TO STAY...it dont take a rocket scientist to figure out ...maybe we should extend his contract

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:00 PM
really? chuck had a year left in his contract to

Malcolm Glazer got what he so desperately desired a few years ago when that noted West Coast auctioneer, Al Davis, bartered away Jon Gruden to the over-eager Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner for a staggering price: two first-round draft choices, a pair of second-rounders and a Warren Sapp-hefty $8 million
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2006-10-10-gruden-deal_x.htm

if nolan wanted to leave for job security...AND OUR BOY WONDER TRUELY WANTED HIM TO STAY...it dont take a rocket scientist to figure out ...maybe we should extend his contract

And the Seahawks could have got in trouble for talking to Dungy because even though he is retired... The Colts OWN his rights.

SOCALORADO.
01-20-2010, 12:07 PM
And the Seahawks could have got in trouble for talking to Dungy because even though he is retired... The Colts OWN his rights.

So Dungy is sorta the same situation as Nolan in that Nolan is under contract, and must get permission to "interview" with the phins from MCD so he can explain to the phins how he took the 29th ranked defense and improved it to the 7th ranked defense, even though his defense was left out on the field for endless 3 and outs by MCDs offense, and that now hes being rewarded by not being able to blitz anymore with superstar players like Dumervil but he really, really wants to stay in DEN so he can continue to......shoot.
Even i cant make that sound legit. Sorry josh.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:09 PM
really? chuck had a year left in his contract to

Malcolm Glazer got what he so desperately desired a few years ago when that noted West Coast auctioneer, Al Davis, bartered away Jon Gruden to the over-eager Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner for a staggering price: two first-round draft choices, a pair of second-rounders and a Warren Sapp-hefty $8 million
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2006-10-10-gruden-deal_x.htm

if nolan wanted to leave for job security...AND OUR BOY WONDER TRUELY WANTED HIM TO STAY...it dont take a rocket scientist to figure out ...maybe we should extend his contract

Who knows? Maybe McDaniels did offer to sweeten the contract? :whoknows:

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:10 PM
So Dungy is sorta the same situation as Nolan in that Nolan is under contract, and must get permission to "interview" with the phins from MCD so he can explain to the phins how he took the 29th ranked defense and improved it to the 7th ranked defense, even though his defense was left out on the field for endless 3 and outs by MCDs offense, and that now hes being rewarded by not being able to blitz anymore with superstar players like Dumervil but he really, really wants to stay in DEN so he can continue to......shoot.
Even i cant make that sound legit. Sorry josh.

I am speculating and going off of memory, but you could almost see the defense drop off. I wonder if that was McD's influence, asking him to tone it down etc...

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 12:10 PM
Refer to Post #19 and try to read something.

Damn. :tsk:

Contribute to the thread or ****.

-----

like i never seen you do the same....hi pot..wheres kettle?

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:12 PM
like i never seen you do the same....hi pot..wheres kettle?

Get on topic.
----

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 12:14 PM
really? chuck had a year left in his contract to

Malcolm Glazer got what he so desperately desired a few years ago when that noted West Coast auctioneer, Al Davis, bartered away Jon Gruden to the over-eager Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner for a staggering price: two first-round draft choices, a pair of second-rounders and a Warren Sapp-hefty $8 million
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2006-10-10-gruden-deal_x.htm

if nolan wanted to leave for job security...AND OUR BOY WONDER TRUELY WANTED HIM TO STAY...it dont take a rocket scientist to figure out ...maybe we should extend his contract

Didn't the NFL change the rules on this afterwards. I thought that draft picks could no longer be used as compensation for coaches.

JONtheBRONCO
01-20-2010, 12:14 PM
i agree. i'm not saying i blame mcd for forcing nolan to leave, but i definitely blame him for letting him leave. nolan is a great DC, he should have fought to keep him in denver.

Yeah, lets keep a guy who would rather be somewhere else. Thats worked great for us.

SOCALORADO.
01-20-2010, 12:15 PM
I am speculating and going off of memory, but you could almost see the defense drop off. I wonder if that was McD's influence, asking him to tone it down etc...

Its obvious that there was more going on than we really knew. ANd Nolan just up and leaving a job in a place where he historically is/was well liked and more importantly VERY successful isnt just a odd quirk.
Nolan left because of defensive coaching philosophies.
The fact that Nolan was the defensive coordinator kept me from being critical of MCD up until now.
Nolan to me was as much the HC as MCD was in many ways. I liked having two HCs runing both units respectively. I thought it was a brilliant move and would allow for better success in MCds 1st 3 years.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Didn't the NFL change the rules on this afterwards. I thought that draft picks could no longer be used as compensation for coaches.

That is what I thought, but I didn't say anything because I wasn't sure.

-----

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 12:17 PM
Who knows? Maybe McDaniels did offer to sweeten the contract? :whoknows:

-----


look top we can sugar coat it to favor mcd all we want...what we do know is ..joshes wanted more control....there are now reports that state josh wanted alot less blitzing and attacking....thats not nolans way to play soft..he's a attacking coach.....

so he said i would like to pursue other options...mcd knew pees was free and would do it his way...gave the nod...its just another one of joshes battle of wills and pissing contest at the expense of the team

Nomad
01-20-2010, 12:17 PM
Good take from Mark Cooper!! As he said McDaniels will live or die by his ways!! I myself hope he succeeds because that means the BRONCOS succeed!!

I'm not going to act like I know much about NFL business. If Nolan left for the reasons top posted from the article then I don't blame him!

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 12:19 PM
Didn't the NFL change the rules on this afterwards. I thought that draft picks could no longer be used as compensation for coaches.


i dunno...i know it happened before though

Tom Nalen
01-20-2010, 12:19 PM
You have to have a good environment to attract and keep top talent. If we (Broncos) truly cared about people wanting to stay or go once they were under contract then Marshall Sheff, and probably Hillis would all have been released.

Yeah but maybe Mike Nolan was less valuable to the team than Marshall. I still believe Marshall will be a Bronco next season, but Scheff and Hillis are gone. (Most likely to the Redskins) I think we also target a QB in the first round of the draft. And one thing a rookie QB could use is a top tier WR. I think the players were more responsible for the better Defense than the coach was.

rcsodak
01-20-2010, 12:22 PM
If he wanted to leave then he wanted to leave. I also believe there is some truth to what Klis wrote about Nolan wanting more autonomy and McD wanting to be more hands on.

No need to force a relationship that wasn't going to work long term.

Yes, of course, you're right, buff....


.....because afterall....Bill 'the tuna' would NEVER want to get HIS hands in anyone's way....

:lol::tsk::coffee:

rcsodak
01-20-2010, 12:23 PM
How is this a knock in the head to those blaming Mcd? Why did Nolan want to leave? Why did the others? Why is the list of people who want to stay with Mcd getting smaller and smaller?

Does a person have to copy/paste that entire article again, or can you just re-read it? :confused:

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:23 PM
Yeah but maybe Mike Nolan was less valuable to the team than Marshall. I still believe Marshall will be a Bronco next season, but Scheff and Hillis are gone. (Most likely to the Redskins) I think we also target a QB in the first round of the draft. And one thing a rookie QB could use is a top tier WR. I think the players were more responsible for the better Defense than the coach was.

Wow, Its probably just me, but I thought of Nolan as thee most valuable Bronco (other than Bowlen).

rcsodak
01-20-2010, 12:28 PM
You have to have a good environment to attract and keep top talent. If we (Broncos) truly cared about people wanting to stay or go once they were under contract then Marshall Sheff, and probably Hillis would all have been released.

But all three of your examples are quoted as saying they love the city/team/fans.

I think your sensability is getting clouded by your over-reactive judgement of McD. Try stepping away for a while, clay......

....a little longer....









...just a little longer........










.....keeeeeeeeep goin'..........

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 12:30 PM
i dunno...i know it happened before though

Yeah. I'm aware it happened before too, and I'm about 90% sure the NFL outlawed it afterwards.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
look top we can sugar coat it to favor mcd all we want...what we do know is ..joshes wanted more control....there are now reports that state josh wanted alot less blitzing and attacking....thats not nolans way to play soft..he's a attacking coach.....

so he said i would like to pursue other options...mcd knew pees was free and would do it his way...gave the nod...its just another one of joshes battle of wills and pissing contest at the expense of the team

How was I "sugar coating" it? I was providing another possible scenario since
it is all speculation at this point, anyway. But I do have to disagree with your
second paragraph. I do not necessarily agree with everything I've seen out of
McDaniels, and I do believe he has made mistakes, but I do not for a heartbeat
believe he intentionally does anything "at the expense of the team."

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:32 PM
But all three of your examples are quoted as saying they love the city/team/fans.

I think your sensability is getting clouded by your over-reactive judgement of McD. Try stepping away for a while, clay......

....a little longer....









...just a little longer........










.....keeeeeeeeep goin'..........

Marshall Sheff and Hillis? Saying they loved city/team/fans??? LMFAO!

Marshall said he hates Denver and cant wait to be traded. Sheff got benched for mumbling that he cant wait to leave Denver. Hillis??? No one has heard anything from him since last year.

I bet you money there are clips of how much Nolan loves the Broncos/Denver area.

Tom Nalen
01-20-2010, 12:32 PM
Wow, Its probably just me, but I thought of Nolan as thee most valuable Bronco (other than Bowlen).

Oh dont get me wrong, he was valuable to us last season. But if we give him props for going 6-0, we also have to give him some blame for the late season collapse. There were way too many times that our defense allowed too many points where even any offense could not dig out of. Nolan has as much blame as any other coach last season.

rcsodak
01-20-2010, 12:33 PM
look top we can sugar coat it to favor mcd all we want...what we do know is ..joshes wanted more control....there are now reports that state josh wanted alot less blitzing and attacking....thats not nolans way to play soft..he's a attacking coach.....

so he said i would like to pursue other options...mcd knew pees was free and would do it his way...gave the nod...its just another one of joshes battle of wills and pissing contest at the expense of the team

:confused:

Huh?

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:34 PM
Yeah. I'm aware it happened before too, and I'm about 90% sure the NFL outlawed it afterwards.

Even if they outlawed it,( which Id like an article just for my own FYI) we still had him under contract, and owned his rights.

It is very hard to believe that Nolan would tank on purpose because he was pissed about staying another year.

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:36 PM
Oh dont get me wrong, he was valuable to us last season. But if we give him props for going 6-0, we also have to give him some blame for the late season collapse. There were way too many times that our defense allowed too many points where even any offense could not dig out of. Nolan has as much blame as any other coach last season.

Makes you wonder if JMCD started telling Nolan to be more conservative around the bye week.

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 12:37 PM
Even if they outlawed it,( which Id like an article just for my own FYI) we still had him under contract, and owned his rights.

It is very hard to believe that Nolan would tank on purpose because he was pissed about staying another year.

It's not about him tanking on purpose. It's about trying to build an organization and a DC that's only expected to be here next season isn't a good fit for building for the future. . ..especially if his philosophy doesn't match the head coach's.

yardog
01-20-2010, 12:37 PM
Makes you wonder if JMCD started telling Nolan to be more conservative around the bye week.

:cool:

rcsodak
01-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Marshall Sheff and Hillis? Saying they loved city/team/fans??? LMFAO!

Marshall said he hates Denver and cant wait to be traded. Sheff got benched for mumbling that he cant wait to leave Denver. Hillis??? No one has heard anything from him since last year.

I bet you money there are clips of how much Nolan loves the Broncos/Denver area.

I would like quotes from them, clay. I'm sure you can garner them up.

Because I KNOW I can.

Btw....Sheff was heard mumbling he can't wait "for the season to end"!


I'll patiently wait.....







still waiting.....







....stiiiiiiiiilllll waiting......

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Even if they outlawed it,( which Id like an article just for my own FYI)

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/01/17/Bucs/NFL_nixes_draft_picks.shtml


TAMPA -- Jon Gruden led the Bucs to a franchise-record 12 victories, a division title and a berth in Sunday's NFC Championship Game against the Eagles. You would have to agree the trade Tampa Bay made with the Raiders for the rights to Gruden is an unqualified success.

Now such a deal is against league rules.

The league Thursday banned the type of trade that enabled the Bucs to sign Gruden. The new policy was announced in a memo to all 32 teams by commissioner Paul Tagliabue, league spokesman Greg Aiello said.

Tagliabue acted after the competition committee concluded that such coach-for-picks trades might be undermining the purpose of the draft.

The co-chairman of the competition committee is Bucs general manager Rich McKay, whose team has reaped the benefits of such a trade.

The Bucs ended a 36-day coaching search by trading two first-round picks, two second-round picks and $8-million to the Raiders for the rights to Gruden, who had a year left on his contract.

Three weeks ago, the Bucs attempted to receive compensation from the Cowboys for the rights to hire Bill Parcells, revealing the two-time Super Bowl-winning coach had signed a four-year contract to coach Tampa Bay a year ago.

But the contract never was submitted to the league office for approval and Tagliabue ruled no compensation was owed.

McKay declined comment Thursday.

The league's owners can decide whether to restore the right to trade draft picks for coaches at their annual meeting March 22-26 in Phoenix.

The league's new policy is not restricted to head coaches. It prevents draft picks from being used to sign anyone under contract with another team, including assistants, front-office personnel or scouts.

Gruden is the latest success story for teams that have been bold enough to package draft picks to hire coaches under contract with other teams.

In 1997, the Jets sent draft picks to New England to acquire the rights to Parcells. Two years later, Parcells led the Jets to the AFC Championship Game.

In 2000, the Patriots sent draft picks to the Jets to hire coach Bill Belichick, who was under contract. Last season, Belichick led New England to the Super Bowl XXXVI title.

This is not the first time the competition committee recommended the league reconsider its policy of swapping picks for coaches. Three years ago it presented its concerns to ownership about teams attempting to receive compensation for assistants.

After firing Tony Dungy and having Parcells renege on a deal to coach Tampa Bay and remain retired, Bucs owners targeted coaches under contract.

First, they offered the 49ers a package of undisclosed draft picks for the rights to Steve Mariucci, who ultimately walked away from an offer to become coach and general manager.

That prompted Bucs vice presidents Joel and Bryan Glazer to call Raiders general partner Al Davis and offer a king's ransom of top picks for the rights to Gruden.

Both teams benefited. The Raiders host Tennessee in the AFC Championship Game while the Bucs travel to Philadelphia for the NFC title game.

rcsodak
01-20-2010, 12:43 PM
Even if they outlawed it,( which Id like an article just for my own FYI) we still had him under contract, and owned his rights.

It is very hard to believe that Nolan would tank on purpose because he was pissed about staying another year.

Coaches don't do well when they're on their final contract year. They're considered "lame duck" coaches by the players. That leads to them not being listened to as much.

This was mentioned because of Norv and Wade. I imagine the same goes for coordinators.

ps. still waiting for your quotes.....

Dirk
01-20-2010, 12:44 PM
there are now reports that state josh wanted alot less blitzing and attacking....thats not nolans way to play soft..he's a attacking coach.....

Can you provide these please?

Sorry...see them posted now.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 12:45 PM
If tampering would have occured, trust me, boy wonder would have cried foul, face it he's proven he loves to do that.

Nolan wanted out so I'm glad he got his wish but you have to wonder why? Why did yet another coach who loves this city and it's fans opt out?

Ummmmm. I thought the original post gave some insite into that

missingnumber7
01-20-2010, 12:46 PM
I think Nolan was looking for a HC opportunity to come about after this season. After the collapse it wasn't about to come so he sees a greener pasture with a coach the he might get along with better.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:46 PM
Oh dont get me wrong, he was valuable to us last season. But if we give him props for going 6-0, we also have to give him some blame for the late season collapse. There were way too many times that our defense allowed too many points where even any offense could not dig out of. Nolan has as much blame as any other coach last season.

Nolan can't be blamed for the lack of talent on the DL.

I think he did a fine job for what he had to work with.

-----

Tom Nalen
01-20-2010, 12:46 PM
Makes you wonder if JMCD started telling Nolan to be more conservative around the bye week.

That, as a fan, we will never know. It is all just speculation from here. From just plain memory, I dont recall the Broncos playing conservative defense, but I may be wrong. In the start of the season, we played a few soft teams that we were able to push around, but when we got to the Ravens, the Steelers, the Colts, and the Eagels, we could just not contain. Our blitzes were being picked up and Dawkins, although he has great leadership, missed many assignments or missed the initial tackle.

What our D really needs to sustain a 16 game season is a big and talented DT.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 12:50 PM
Wow, Its probably just me, but I thought of Nolan as thee most valuable Bronco (other than Bowlen).

Your right about one thing....It was just you :beer:

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:52 PM
That, as a fan, we will never know. It is all just speculation from here. From just plain memory, I dont recall the Broncos playing conservative defense, but I may be wrong. In the start of the season, we played a few soft teams that we were able to push around, but when we got to the Ravens, the Steelers, the Colts, and the Eagels, we could just not contain. Our blitzes were being picked up and Dawkins, although he has great leadership, missed many assignments or missed the initial tackle.

What our D really needs to sustain a 16 game season is a big and talented DT.

While continuing this discussion might belong in a different thread, I believe you
are correct in your final sentence. While Fields did credible job, it was not
outstanding. If the Broncos could lure, say, a Ryan Pickett, it could release
possibly the most talented players on the DL to DE, i.e., Marcus Thomas and
Fields himself. That, plus the continued development of McBean, whom many
believe still has a considerable upside, might do the trick.

-----

Nomad
01-20-2010, 12:54 PM
While continuing this discussion might belong in a different thread, I believe you
are correct in your final sentence. While Fields did credible job, it was not
outstanding. If the Broncos could lure, say, a Ryan Pickett, it could release
possibly the most talented players on the DL to DE, i.e., Marcus Thomas and
Fields himself. That, plus the continued development of McBean, whom many
believe still has a considerable upside, might do the trick.

-----

Whatever happened to that Chris Baker kid?? Or is he even worth mentioning??

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:56 PM
I would like quotes from them, clay. I'm sure you can garner them up.

Because I KNOW I can.

Btw....Sheff was heard mumbling he can't wait "for the season to end"!


I'll patiently wait.....







still waiting.....







....stiiiiiiiiilllll waiting......
Keep waiting. Or you can just look it up yourself.

Coaches don't do well when they're on their final contract year. They're considered "lame duck" coaches by the players. That leads to them not being listened to as much.

This was mentioned because of Norv and Wade. I imagine the same goes for coordinators.

ps. still waiting for your quotes.....
Thanks for your speculative opinion.

That, as a fan, we will never know. It is all just speculation from here. From just plain memory, I dont recall the Broncos playing conservative defense, but I may be wrong. In the start of the season, we played a few soft teams that we were able to push around, but when we got to the Ravens, the Steelers, the Colts, and the Eagels, we could just not contain. Our blitzes were being picked up and Dawkins, although he has great leadership, missed many assignments or missed the initial tackle.

What our D really needs to sustain a 16 game season is a big and talented DT.
We couldnt push around the raiders the chiefs or the redskins either. We didnt get real pressure after the BYE. Its somethingI tlaked about with my father a bunch because he couldnt believe the turnaround/fall off in the D.

Dawkins is a great leader, but I think we over paid for him.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:57 PM
Whatever happened to that Chris Baker kid?? Or is he even worth mentioning??

Forgot about him. Tremendous upside, but very raw.

Perhaps we'll see more of him this year? He could be an answer to the talent problem.

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:57 PM
Your right about one thing....It was just you :beer:

Could be. But If you asked last week, Im sure there arent many Broncos that people would rather have here over Nolan.

claymore
01-20-2010, 12:59 PM
It's not about him tanking on purpose. It's about trying to build an organization and a DC that's only expected to be here next season isn't a good fit for building for the future. . ..especially if his philosophy doesn't match the head coach's.

Having a full year to find a replacement is better than having a couple months. IMO, unless there is a stallion DC that you have to act on right away, which isnt the case.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 12:59 PM
Dawkins is a great leader, but I think we over paid for him.

Pity's sake, Clay. I don't.

He's an All-Pro. And it's almost consensus that he was the Broncos' greatest
coup this year, with the greatest impact on the team . . .

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Pity's sake, Clay. I don't.

He's an All-Pro. And it's almost consensus that he was the Broncos' greatest
coup this year, with the greatest impact on the team . . .

-----

5 years 17 million for a 13 year Safety?

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 01:16 PM
Found the following - it is quite lengthy

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache%3AkO-cv29hd5kJ%3Awww.insidefootball.com%2Fantitampering policy.pdf+coaches+anti+tampering+rules&hl=en&gl=us

topscribe
01-20-2010, 01:28 PM
5 years 17 million for a 13 year Safety?

If the Broncos are to do anything next year (and I believe they can, provided
they plug a couple holes), it will be because Dawkins is in the backfield . . .

-----

JDL
01-20-2010, 01:41 PM
Report: McDaniels told Nolan there would be less blitzing
Posted by Mike Florio on January 20, 2010 11:42 AM ET

As folks in Denver try to figure out why Mike Nolan is no longer the team's defensive coordinator, Ron Borges of the Boston Herald reports that the divorce was caused not by Bill Parcells sniffing around for someone to run Miami's defense, but by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels trying to tell Nolan how to do his job.

Per Borges, McDaniels told Nolan "in no uncertain terms" that the Broncos would be blitzing less frequently in 2010 than they did in 2009.

And so the two men decided to part ways.

A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees, and that Pees possibly was motivated to add to the coaching staff a guy with NFL head-coaching experience, who could be a viable candidate to take over the Broncos on an interim basis if the 2-8 momentum to end McDaniels' first season continues into his second.

claymore
01-20-2010, 01:45 PM
If the Broncos are to do anything next year (and I believe they can, provided
they plug a couple holes), it will be because Dawkins is in the backfield . . .

-----

Dawkins is awesome. I wish he was younger.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 01:46 PM
Report: McDaniels told Nolan there would be less blitzing
Posted by Mike Florio on January 20, 2010 11:42 AM ET

As folks in Denver try to figure out why Mike Nolan is no longer the team's defensive coordinator, Ron Borges of the Boston Herald reports that the divorce was caused not by Bill Parcells sniffing around for someone to run Miami's defense, but by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels trying to tell Nolan how to do his job.

Per Borges, McDaniels told Nolan "in no uncertain terms" that the Broncos would be blitzing less frequently in 2010 than they did in 2009.

And so the two men decided to part ways.

A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees, and that Pees possibly was motivated to add to the coaching staff a guy with NFL head-coaching experience, who could be a viable candidate to take over the Broncos on an interim basis if the 2-8 momentum to end McDaniels' first season continues into his second.

Frankly, if it is true, regarding what McDaniels allegedly said to Nolan, it would
raise the hairs on the back of my neck, were I Nolan. Nolan is not a DC-in-
training. If anybody in the league knows what he is doing on defense, Nolan
does. The thought of it just rankles me at the moment . . .

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 01:52 PM
Frankly, if it is true, regarding what McDaniels allegedly said to Nolan, it would
raise the hairs on the back of my neck, were I Nolan. Nolan is not a DC-in-
training. If anybody in the league knows what he is doing on defense, Nolan
does. The thought of it just rankles me at the moment . . .

-----

I guess that describes my year. "Rankled" :lol:

Ravage!!!
01-20-2010, 01:54 PM
This is just from some NFL blgger. This isn't fact, its speculation. How is this supposed to change the minds of anyone?

topscribe
01-20-2010, 02:03 PM
This is just from some NFL blgger. This isn't fact, its speculation. How is this supposed to change the minds of anyone?

Are you talking about the initial post or JDL's?

In the case of the initial post, the NFL blogger happens to be Sam Wyche. While
it still must be classified as speculation, it is based on "sources close to the
situation," so it appears to be more solid than anything else, so far.

-----

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 02:03 PM
Poor McDaniels. :rolleyes:



There was only one year left on Marshalls deal we should have let him go to?

Apples and oranges.

Had marshall not been in a contract year with the prospect of a gazillion dollar deal a year away. Do you suppose he would have had the year he did?

Perhaps yes because he is a consumate PRO?

All he would have had to do is drop a few easy catches (short arm), then Orton would statred to look at him less.

Since there were more options than marshall out there, but even BM is not that stupid.

Now what other options did Josh have to design and call plays on defense?


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Tned-Mobile
01-20-2010, 02:08 PM
Before, McDaniels couldn't get along with anybody.

Now, he is a bad guy because he's a nice guy.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :tsk:

-----

So, your saying if Moreno says to him, "hey Coach, I know your a nice guy, and I love it here, but I think I have a great opportunity to further my career in Buffalo. Can you release me so I can head up north? Thanks coach," that being a 'nice guy', McDaniels should honor Moreno's request?

claymore
01-20-2010, 02:11 PM
Apples and oranges.

Had marshall not been in a contract year with the prospect of a gazillion dollar deal a year away. Do you suppose he would have had the year he did?

Perhaps yes because he is a consumate PRO?

All he would have had to do is drop a few easy catches (short arm), then Orton would statred to look at him less.

Since there were more options than marshall out there, but even BM is not that stupid.

Now what other options did Josh have to design and call plays on defense?


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
I think he would have a good year because he is a Pro Bowl player. A specimen who had 2 great years the previously.
Apples and oranges? A contract is a contract.

I have no idea what you mean or are getting at with your last question.

claymore
01-20-2010, 02:12 PM
So, your saying if Moreno says to him, "hey Coach, I know your a nice guy, and I love it here, but I think I have a great opportunity to further my career in Buffalo. Can you release me so I can head up north? Thanks coach," that being a 'nice guy', McDaniels should honor Moreno's request?

That would sure be nice of him.

shank
01-20-2010, 02:14 PM
So, your saying if Moreno says to him, "hey Coach, I know your a nice guy, and I love it here, but I think I have a great opportunity to further my career in Buffalo. Can you release me so I can head up north? Thanks coach," that being a 'nice guy', McDaniels should honor Moreno's request?

good point.


and if nolan wanted out purely because he wanted a longer-term contract... then McD and crew should have at least started a discussion regarding the idea of extending nolan's contract here in denver, especially after the defensive turnaround. it would have only got better as nolan got more guys that fit what he wants to do.

i'm mighty steamed.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 02:17 PM
So, your saying if Moreno says to him, "hey Coach, I know your a nice guy, and I love it here, but I think I have a great opportunity to further my career in Buffalo. Can you release me so I can head up north? Thanks coach," that being a 'nice guy', McDaniels should honor Moreno's request?

You should read the rest of the thread . . .

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 02:19 PM
You should read the rest of the thread . . .

-----

Why? the counter argument is "apples and Oranges".

topscribe
01-20-2010, 02:21 PM
Why? the counter argument is "apples and Oranges".

This is just one big vicious cycle, isn't it? It should be obvious to anyone whose
I.Q. exceeds their shoe size that I haven't taken a position on this.

Damn.

-----

claymore
01-20-2010, 02:23 PM
This is just one big vicious cycle, isn't it? It should be obvious to anyone whose
I.Q. exceeds their shoe size that I haven't taken a position on this.

Damn.

-----

I didnt state it to you directley. I only hold you personally accountable for Ortons high ankle sprain! :D

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 02:24 PM
I'm going to throw something semi wild out here.

What if Nolan took the job here knowing that it was indeed another chance of getting a HC job either here IF Josh stepped on his crank. Or elsewhere because frankly taking the worst defense in the history of the NFL and making any imporvement at all would make him a hero.

Perhaps he saw that inspite of all the rookie H/C mistakes Josh made, he was told Joshes job was secure here and he saw a chance to go elsewhere as his best chance.

Perhaps it was to much for his EGO to handle another year to take orders from someone almost half his age.

IIrC the NFL no longer allows "coaching" draft choice compensation since the Gruden deal went down. But I could be wrong.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Buff
01-20-2010, 02:26 PM
So, your saying if Moreno says to him, "hey Coach, I know your a nice guy, and I love it here, but I think I have a great opportunity to further my career in Buffalo. Can you release me so I can head up north? Thanks coach," that being a 'nice guy', McDaniels should honor Moreno's request?

Not really a good comparison at all. Aside from the obvious fact that players and coaches contracts are handled differently... It appears that both sides had certain disagreements in terms of philosophy and both sides had other options. Why would McD take a hard line with a coach who wanted to work elsewhere? He would be setting himself up for failure.

claymore
01-20-2010, 02:28 PM
Not really a good comparison at all. Aside from the obvious fact that players and coaches contracts are handled differently... It appears that both sides had certain disagreements in terms of philosophy and both sides had other options. Why would McD take a hard line with a coach who wanted to work elsewhere? He would be setting himself up for failure.

I think a coach has more to lose by tanking it than a good player does.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 02:31 PM
I'm going to throw something semi wild out here.

What if Nolan took the job here knowing that it was indeed another chance of getting a HC job either here IF Josh stepped on his crank. Or elsewhere because frankly taking the worst defense in the history of the NFL and making any imporvement at all would make him a hero.

Perhaps he saw that inspite of all the rookie H/C mistakes Josh made, he was told Joshes job was secure here and he saw a chance to go elsewhere as his best chance.

Perhaps it was to much for his EGO to handle another year to take orders from someone almost half his age.

IIrC the NFL no longer allows "coaching" draft choice compensation since the Gruden deal went down. But I could be wrong.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Probably wasn't the greatest match to begin. Nolan is an experienced DC and
an experienced HC. Josh is an inexperienced HC and has never been a DC.

What I was hoping for, long before this, was that Josh had handed the full
reins of the defense to Nolan and gotten out of the way, with Nolan only
having to report back to Josh on what he was doing to keep Josh in the loop.

It is becoming apparent that Josh did not allow that to happen. Which, if so,
is regrettable, IMO.

-----

Buff
01-20-2010, 02:32 PM
I think a coach has more to lose by tanking it than a good player does.

It just doesn't make good business sense in any industry to keep a disgruntled employee around.

If McD would have forced Nolan to honor his contract in a situation that he wasn't comfortable with, then that would have made him a disgruntled employee. If we've learned anything about McD, it's that he wants everyone heading in the same direction.

shank
01-20-2010, 02:35 PM
It just doesn't make good business sense in any industry to keep a disgruntled employee around.

If McD would have forced Nolan to honor his contract in a situation that he wasn't comfortable with, then that would have made him a disgruntled employee. If we've learned anything about McD, it's that he wants everyone heading in the same direction.

is it good business practice to cause your employees to be disgruntled by not allowing them to do their job? especially when the employee has shown that he is very competent at his job, and would only get better as he got more fitting pieces to his defense?

if a little adaptability on josh's part would have kept nolan in town, i'd have voted for it.

T.K.O.
01-20-2010, 02:37 PM
or..... maybe nolan would rather surf than ski ?:beer:

Buff
01-20-2010, 02:59 PM
is it good business practice to cause your employees to be disgruntled by not allowing them to do their job? especially when the employee has shown that he is very competent at his job, and would only get better as he got more fitting pieces to his defense?

if a little adaptability on josh's part would have kept nolan in town, i'd have voted for it.

First of all, I think McD was the one who had final say on most, if not all, of the defensive free agents who were brought in.

Second, while the defense was vastly improved over 2008, any defense would have been an improvement. We still couldn't stop the run down the stretch and were ranked in the lower third of the league. It's not like we were worldbeaters on defense. And we don't really know how much of a hand McD had in calling the defense.

Third, we don't even know if anyone was disgruntled. All we know is that Miami asked for permission to interview Nolan. If McD went to Nolan and asked him about his interest in the Miami job and Nolan said he was interested--then that's reason enough to part ways right there. Even if we kept him around for another year he was obviously going to bolt for greener pastures eventually. His employment history tells us that.

I don't know, I just don't see this as being a huge deal.

JDL
01-20-2010, 03:00 PM
A fair analysis is probably that there was some disagreement between McDaniels and Nolan. Nolan is a veteran DC and NFL coach and probably was a bit uncomfortable working for someone so much younger or taking direction from someone less experienced than he in directing a defense.

I think McDaniels probably favors a military style chain of command (much more vertical.) He wants to be in charge of every aspect of the team with those under him following his orders. It can be a controversial but effective style of management. I've seen it first hand in the private sector, civilian employees much more use to the pyramid style management, have a hard time adjusting.

I think this is probably simply a case where McDaniels felt that the defense collapsed down the stretch (which it did - but the last game was a bit of a misnomer, as the O gave up 14pts itself.) McDaniels had an idea of where he wanted to go and being a veteran coach like Nolan is, he was probably not enthralled with any suggestions (read by a vet coach as interference.) His agent probably reached out to Miami, Miami reciprocated and the wheels were set in motion.

You can't have a coach who doesn't want to be there. They won't put in the long hours and effort necessary. I truly think a lot of these problems are age related, not ability related. He's so much younger than most of the guys he's trying to direct. Obviously, he can't let under-coaches run rough shod over him, he has to do what's in the team's best interest, so it probably wasn't a very good match to have such a veteran coach under such a young coach cutting his teeth. I understand the reasoning (it was supposed to provide him a coach who had head coaching experience and could guide him.)

Anyway, I do believe that BOTH parties wanted the split and for their own reasons. But, sooner or later the discord in the organization has to stop. It has to become a place players and coaches WANT to come to, if not it will deteriorate into a 2nd class organization. People have to believe they can work with McDaniels and right now whether you think he has ANY level of fault or not, he has developed a dangerous image as someone that is difficult to work for. If you continuously have personnel and coaching issues, you will get that. It does really seem like McDaniels would have been better off starting with a team that had no concept of success rather than one who had its own concept. He's having to destroy attachments to a certain way of doing things that have had mixed results sure, but in the grand scheme of things, some success. It seems to be a hard sell for him to make and he is struggling to get everyone to fall in line.

Mind you there are plenty of coaches that work this way, it is a legitimate modus operandi in the NFL, but a tough for one for a young coach to pull off so early in his NFL head coaching career. Imo, it will probably undo him here in Denver. I don't think Denver is a football town with the patience to wait around for success in a league where 1-15 teams can become playoff teams overnight. We'll see though.

Best of luck to Nolan and hopefully Pees can maintain some respectability (he's not awful, but he is definitely a significant downgrade from Nolan.)

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 03:15 PM
Perhaps in their sit down chat after a week off, Josh thought the huge gashes a few) had on us was because we blitzed so much and told him he wanted to see less of it.

I can see it going downhill from there.

No one knows for sure what really happened other than the two in the room.

As for taking the word of some writter in NE of what happened. Well that makes zero sense IMHO. What inside sources could possibly have in DEN?


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 03:29 PM
Perhaps in their sit down chat after a week off, Josh thought the huge gashes a few) had on us was because we blitzed so much and told him he wanted to see less of it.

I can see it going downhill from there.

No one knows for sure what really happened other than the two in the room.

As for taking the word of some writter in NE of what happened. Well that makes zero sense IMHO. What inside sources could possibly have in DEN?


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

There's the telephone . . .

I'm sure Denver's "sources" respond to NFL.com as well as anybody. In fact,
because of the apparent rift between some of the Denver media and the
Broncos FO, a credible "outside" reporter such as Sam Wyche might find it a
bit easier to get information?

-----

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-20-2010, 03:31 PM
Josh doesn't keep people here that don't want to be here, he never has and I doubt he ever will.

Accountability sound familiar?

He just wants to build a tough, smart, physical football team that plays well under pressure. You don't turn a finesse squad into that in one offseason, nor in two offseasons. Rome wasn't built in a day folks, do you want it done fast or do you want it done right? I know the american thing to say is 'fast', mcdonalds over a diner but McD has a vision for this team and I agree with every move he's made so far. He's changing the culture of this organization and i'm on board with all of it.Peace Nolan, have fun playing with the fishes.

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 03:33 PM
maybe he was told we needed to get a lot bigger on the DL and that we had to get someone to replace fields while he did a good job there we were getting gashed by the run and run stopping starts in the NT spot.

I know that he was brought here by Nolan and this and other things just did not set well with him.

Time will tell.

claymore
01-20-2010, 03:44 PM
Josh doesn't keep people here that don't want to be here, he never has and I doubt he ever will.

Accountability sound familiar?

He just wants to build a tough, smart, physical football team that plays well under pressure. You don't turn a finesse squad into that in one offseason, nor in two offseasons. Rome wasn't built in a day folks, do you want it done fast or do you want it done right? I know the american thing to say is 'fast', mcdonalds over a diner but McD has a vision for this team and I agree with every move he's made so far. He's changing the culture of this organization and i'm on board with all of it.Peace Nolan, have fun playing with the fishes.

It takes time. And thats why im pissed. He is acting like he has to have it built by this year. And he is fixing everything vs fixing the worst parts first.

If your roof leaks you dont repave your driveway first...

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 03:45 PM
Found the following - it is quite lengthy

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache%3AkO-cv29hd5kJ%3Awww.insidefootball.com%2Fantitampering policy.pdf+coaches+anti+tampering+rules&hl=en&gl=us

Assistant Coaches. These rules govern cases involving assistant coaches:Under Contract During Season. During a club’s playing season, includingpostseason if applicable (excluding Pro Bowl), the following actions areprohibited concerning an assistant coach who is under contract, unless theinvolved coach has been dismissed by his club: (1) No assistant coach maydiscuss or accept employment for the current or a future season with anotherclub in the League; (2) no club, directly or through an intermediary, mayrequest permission to discuss employment with an assistant coach for thecurrent or a future season; and (3) no employer club may grant another clubpermission to discuss employment with one of its assistant coaches for thecurrent or a future season. This prohibition applies to employment withanother club in any capacity, including head coach, except for the postseasonprocedure described in paragraph two below.Under Contract After Season. If an assistant coach’s playing season,including postseason if applicable (excluding Pro Bowl), is over and he isunder contract to his club for the succeeding season or seasons, one of theprovisions below—“Head-Coaching Opportunity” or “Lateral Move”—whichever is applicable, must be observed:1. Two Tiers of Coaching Staffs. For purposes of this Anti-Tampering Policy,each coaching staff is divided into two tiers: (1) head coach, and (2) all assistantcoaches.Although each individual club is permitted to use whatever structure and titles itdesires for its coaching staff, the two tiers described here will be adhered to foradministration of this Policy.2. Head-Coaching Opportunity. If a club is interested in discussing its headcoaching position with an assistant coach whose playing season (excluding ProBowl) is over, and who is contractually obligated to another club, the assistantcoach’s employer club must permit the coach the opportunity to discuss, andpossibly accept, such employment through March 1 of any year. After March 1,the employer club is under no obligation to grant such permission, but it may bevoluntarily granted at the employer club’s discretion during the off-season. The following postseason procedure applies if a club (the inquiring club)is interested in discussing its vacant head coaching position with anassistant coach whose employer club is participating in the playoffs: a) The owner or operating head of the inquiring club may contact the owner oroperating head of the employer club to request written permission to discussits head coaching position with an assistant coach.
Page 8
NFL Anti-Tampering Policy8b) If the employer club elects to grant permission to the inquiring club, the one(1) interview between the inquiring club and the assistant coach must beconducted at any location acceptable to the employer club and at a time thatis convenient for the employer club. For clubs that have byes in the WildCard weekend, interviews of its coaches must be conducted prior to theconclusion of Wild Card games. For assistant coaches of clubs thatparticipate in a Wild Card game and advance to the Divisional Playoffs,interviews must be conducted after the Wild Card games and prior to theconclusion of Divisional Playoff games. An inquiring club is permitted onlyone interview with an assistant coach while his team is competing in thepostseason, and there shall be no other direct or indirect contact between anyemployee or agent of the inquiring club and the assistant coach or anyrepresentative or agent of the assistant coach. No initial interviews may berequested nor granted after the Divisional Playoff weekend for any assistantcoach whose team is still participating in the postseason. However, in anyyear in which there is at least a two-week break between the conferencechampionship games and the Super Bowl, an assistant coach who (i) haspreviously interviewed for another club’s head coaching job and (ii) whosecurrent employer-club is participating in the Super Bowl may have a secondinterview with a club with which he has previously interviewed for an openhead coach position provided that (i) the current employer-club elects togrant permission for a second interview, and (ii) the interview will takeplace at a time and location that is acceptable for the current employer-club,but no later than the Sunday preceding the Super Bowl.c) No contract shall be executed, and no agreement to execute a contract, or anannouncement of a contract or of an agreement for employment, shall bepermitted until after the conclusion of the employer club’s playing season.d) If a club elects to grant permission for one of its assistant coaches tointerview for a head coaching position, it must grant permission to allinquiring clubs that seek to interview him. Permission cannot be grantedselectively.e) If a club elects to grant permission for one of its assistant coaches tointerview with an inquiring club or clubs, it may deny permission foranother member of its staff, provided that the denial is applicable to allinquiring clubs.3. Lateral Move. If a club is interested in discussing an assistant coachingposition with an assistant coach who is contractually obligated to anotherclub at any time prior to the opening of the employer club’s trainingcamp, it will be considered a lateral move, and the employer club is underno obligation to grant the coach the opportunity to discuss the positionwith the interested club. At the discretion of the employer club, however,such permission may be voluntarily granted.
Page 9
NFL Anti-Tampering Policy9Expired Contract. If an assistant coach’s contract has expired and hecontinues to work for his club during the off-season, the employer clubmust not deny the coach the opportunity to discuss or accept employmentwith another club, regardless of whether the coach continues to receivecompensation on a non-contract basis from his club and regardless ofwhether the request for permission occurs post March 1.Contract Due to Expire. The employer club retains the exclusive right to anassistant coach’s contract during the period after the conclusion of the lastNFL season covered by such contract and the applicable deadline specifiedon the schedule below. • Clubs Not in Playoffs. 12:01 A.M. on the second Tuesday after the club’s final game of the regular season. • Clubs in Playoff. 12:01 A.M. on the second Tuesday after the club’s final playoff game, including Super Bowl if applicable, but in no event after theexpiration date specified in the coach’s contract.[NOTE: The exclusivity provided for in this section will apply only in theevent that another club seeks to offer a lateral move to a coach. It does notapply if another club seeks to offer a head coaching job to an assistant. If anemployer club’s season has ended, the club may waive its right to exclusivityunder this section.]March 1 Deadline. After March 1 of any year, if a club seeks permission todiscuss employment with an assistant coach who is under contract for thesucceeding season or seasons to another club to offer him a position as itshead coach, the employer club is under no obligation to grant the coach theopportunity to discuss the position with the interested club. At the discretionof the employer club, however, such permission may be voluntarily granted.Inquiries Concerning Assistant Coaches. Clubs may verify through theLeague office the contractual status of any assistant coach in whom they areinterested, provided such request for verification occurs after the conclusionof all regular season or postseason games of the coach’s club. Suchcontractual information is limited to term of employment; no financial orother details will be divulged. No prior permission from the employer club isrequired for an inquiring club to ascertain contractual status from the Leagueoffice.Contract Provisions. Under no circumstances may an assistant coach’scontract contain a right of first refusal in favor of the employer club or anyother restrictive contractual provisions inconsistent with this Policy. Theemployer club is not prevented, however, from tendering a competitive offerto an assistant coach.
Page 10
NFL Anti-Tampering Policy10Protocol. Any contacts by a club seeking to employ an assistant coach—either with the employer club of the person sought, or directly with the clubemployee sought (or his representative)—are subject to the provisions of thesection on “Protocol,” page 5. Similarly, contacts by club employees seekingassistant coaching jobs with other clubs are subject to the provisions of thesection on “Protocol.” Despite provisions of the “Protocol” section, page 5,all in-season discussions, requests for permission, or contacts of any kindconcerning the future employment of an assistant coach with a club otherthan his employer club are prohibited, except as provided in the postseasonprocedure described in paragraph two (2) above.Contract Requirement. All assistant coaches in the NFL must be undercontract in order to perform coaching duties at training camps and during therest of the playing season. Any assistant coach not under contract by the timepreseason training camp begins will not be permitted to participate inpractice sessions, game coaching, and other team activities until such time ashis written contract is executed and approved by the League office. Personswho are not full-time employees of the club may perform coaching dutiesduring training camp even though they are not under contract, but they mustsign an agreement that they will abide by the Constitution and Bylaws and allother applicable rules and policies of the National Football League. Anypersons performing full-time coaching duties during the regular season andpostseason must be under contract, even if they are not year-round employeesof the club.Pre-Employment Contact. Clubs interviewing candidates for a head coachingposition are responsible for making them aware of the League’s tamperingprohibitions and should warn them against making any improper contact withanother club’s employees, including any contact during the period prior to acandidate’s official acceptance of a head coaching position


Report: McDaniels told Nolan there would be less blitzing
Posted by Mike Florio on January 20, 2010 11:42 AM ET

As folks in Denver try to figure out why Mike Nolan is no longer the team's defensive coordinator, Ron Borges of the Boston Herald reports that the divorce was caused not by Bill Parcells sniffing around for someone to run Miami's defense, but by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels trying to tell Nolan how to do his job.

Per Borges, McDaniels told Nolan "in no uncertain terms" that the Broncos would be blitzing less frequently in 2010 than they did in 2009.

And so the two men decided to part ways.

A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees, and that Pees possibly was motivated to add to the coaching staff a guy with NFL head-coaching experience, who could be a viable candidate to take over the Broncos on an interim basis if the 2-8 momentum to end McDaniels' first season continues into his second.


There's the telephone . . .

I'm sure Denver's "sources" respond to NFL.com as well as anybody. In fact,
because of the apparent rift between some of the Denver media and the
Broncos FO, a credible "outside" reporter such as Sam Wyche might find it a
bit easier to get information?

-----
it was the borges quote I was talking about posted just above your quote. I think there ere enough folks on/near the team here that would had leaked it locally before going to NE if it were true.

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 03:48 PM
It takes time. And thats why im pissed. He is acting like he has to have it built by this year. And he is fixing everything vs fixing the worst parts first.

If your roof leaks you dont repave your driveway first...

Hey I want the new Escalde to have a way to the house. No way I'm parking it on the street or Highway in front of the house.


Since it hardly ever rains here I've got enough pots and pans.:laugh::laugh:

claymore
01-20-2010, 03:53 PM
Hey I want the new Escalde to have a way to the house. No way I'm parking it on the street or Highway in front of the house.


Since it hardly ever rains here I've got enough pots and pans.:laugh::laugh:

I know people that drive denali's and live in Shanti's.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 03:54 PM
There was only one year left on Nolan's contract.

How much do we gain by hand-cuffing him to us for a year? One year from now we're in the same spot anyway, or we get started with a new DC now and are already through the change by next off-season?

I don't know the answer, but it's not like Nolan had a long-term contract with us, and according to this article, Nolan saw value in having a contract guaranteed through the 2011 season.

Maybe, just maybe, you appreciate everything he did for you and offer him a contract extension to lock him up long term instead of allowing another team to do so? Just a thought for a guy who took your defense from bottom 2 to top 10 in most categories including producing 3 defensive probowlers and the league sack leader. Maybe, just maybe, that's a guy you at least try to keep around.

The fact is, Nolan is gone. I really don't care if he left of his own free will or was fired. he's one more piece of what was supposed to be the "puzzle" to improving this team that now remains to be filled. For the first time in God only knows how long, I was excited about my DC in Denver. I guy I respected. Now we're back to square one, again. I frankly don't give two shits as to the why. It happened and I don't have to like it.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 03:57 PM
Josh doesn't keep people here that don't want to be here, he never has and I doubt he ever will.

Accountability sound familiar?

He just wants to build a tough, smart, physical football team that plays well under pressure. You don't turn a finesse squad into that in one offseason, nor in two offseasons. Rome wasn't built in a day folks, do you want it done fast or do you want it done right? I know the american thing to say is 'fast', mcdonalds over a diner but McD has a vision for this team and I agree with every move he's made so far. He's changing the culture of this organization and i'm on board with all of it.Peace Nolan, have fun playing with the fishes.

NOBODY WANTS TO BE HERE anymore than they WANT to be with any NFL franchise that will pay them and give them a chance to play. When oh when will Broncos fans learn this. :tsk:

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 04:16 PM
Josh doesn't keep people here that don't want to be here, he never has and I doubt he ever will.

Accountability sound familiar?

He just wants to build a tough, smart, physical football team that plays well under pressure. You don't turn a finesse squad into that in one offseason, nor in two offseasons. Rome wasn't built in a day folks, do you want it done fast or do you want it done right? I know the american thing to say is 'fast', mcdonalds over a diner but McD has a vision for this team and I agree with every move he's made so far. He's changing the culture of this organization and i'm on board with all of it.

Peace Nolan, have fun playing with the fishes.

I agree 100% with this.

Everyone that thought we would be a playoff team where fooling themselves, and after the 6-0 start I was almost convinced we would be.

But when you look at just how devoid of talent this team real was, yes I know jay and BM were "pro bowlers" and the OLINE was supposedly the best in the NFL. After one season I think we all realize that jay isn't all the shintz that he was supposed to be and our loin folded when it counted trying to do what all OLINES can do "BLOCK" that guy in front of them.

Now did dennison fail in teaching them the power game or where the players the one at fault. yes I know they were not designed for it but is it not the coaches fault for convincing Josh not to make the change if he knows it is going to fail?


Look there was a lot of reason for failure this past year, and the buck does stop at the top But I believe that Josh has a plan that Pat and the CFO bought into when he was hired and he should be allowed to see it through.

the doom and gloom choir will continue to sing in harmony about Josh being the root of all evil. But they have to move on to embrace changes from the old ways. or be left behind to snipe at any failure no matter how minor.

What I find funny is that they were not to be found the past few years as the Broncos they loved so dearly, were crumbling.

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 04:39 PM
The more I read these threads the more I realize the pro Mcd people are going to read and see what they want to see and ignore the obvious. I am neither a pro or anti Mcd guy, I'm pro Bronco. I have been very critical of Mcd BUT I've been supportive when I feel he merits it. I was the same with Shanahan. The list of people wanting out of Denver continues to grow and the common denominator is our head coach Mcd, there is no ignoring that. The most recent was Nolan but if recent events are any indication, there will be more. The facts are we are losing good people, people other teams are swiping up without hesitation and the list of people who want to be here is getting smaller by the day. I, like everybody else, only want players and coaches here who want to be here, problem who's going to be left?

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 04:50 PM
I really wish folks would stop saying this team is "devoid of talent". 5 Players are going to the probowl. We are no more devoid of talent than any other team in the league right now, except maybe at the QB position.

I know that everyone seems to think that our O-line became complete garbage overnight, and even if they're right (which I don't believe for a second) we have one of the deepest WR corps I've ever seen, solid RBs, the BEST defensive secondary in the league, and a solid LB corps.

We are a LOT better off than a lot of other teams out there. You think because we need a G, C, and a NT to fit the 3-4 that we're completely devoid of talent? G is the EASIEST spot to fill on the offense. We have two EXCELLENT OTs. Young and talented RBs and WRs.

Our problem hasn't been talent in a long time. It's been coaching.

claymore
01-20-2010, 04:51 PM
The more I read these threads the more I realize the pro Mcd people are going to read and see what they want to see and ignore the obvious. I am neither a pro or anti Mcd guy, I'm pro Bronco. I have been very critical of Mcd BUT I've been supportive when I feel he merits it. I was the same with Shanahan. The list of people wanting out of Denver continues to grow and the common denominator is our head coach Mcd, there is no ignoring that. The most recent was Nolan but if recent events are any indication, there will be more. The facts are we are losing good people, people other teams are swiping up without hesitation and the list of people who want to be here is getting smaller by the day. I, like everybody else, only want players and coaches here who want to be here, problem who's going to be left?

We are the light house durring the Storm.

Northman
01-20-2010, 04:53 PM
i agree. i'm not saying i blame mcd for forcing nolan to leave, but i definitely blame him for letting him leave. nolan is a great DC, he should have fought to keep him in denver.


Why? According to some it was all McD's doing in terms of the success of the defense anyway. Nolan was just standing on the sidelines. :lol:

Buff
01-20-2010, 04:53 PM
The more I read these threads the more I realize the pro Mcd people are going to read and see what they want to see and ignore the obvious. I am neither a pro or anti Mcd guy, I'm pro Bronco. I have been very critical of Mcd BUT I've been supportive when I feel he merits it. I was the same with Shanahan. The list of people wanting out of Denver continues to grow and the common denominator is our head coach Mcd, there is no ignoring that. The most recent was Nolan but if recent events are any indication, there will be more. The facts are we are losing good people, people other teams are swiping up without hesitation and the list of people who want to be here is getting smaller by the day. I, like everybody else, only want players and coaches here who want to be here, problem who's going to be left?

By that same token, I think the people who are anti McD frame the stories how they want to frame them and ignore the inconvenient truth that maybe things aren't as bad as the national media would lead us to believe.

I laid it out in a post yesterday where essentially there are 7 people who have exited or want out of Denver: Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Scheffler, Turner, Dennison and Nolan. Turner and Dennison got promotions and left to coach with good friends... Those don't strike me as indictments of the coach. Cutler turns the ball over too much, Marshall is too selfish and we can debate the merits of Scheffler and Hillis.

Granted, I would like to curb some of the drama and the "he said she said" stuff, but at the end of the day I think people get all worked up into a frenzy over the media headlines--but what has the organization really lost? Has McD really mismanaged these things as badly as some want us to believe?

Time will tell.

Northman
01-20-2010, 04:54 PM
If he wanted to leave then he wanted to leave. I also believe there is some truth to what Klis wrote about Nolan wanting more autonomy and McD wanting to be more hands on.

No need to force a relationship that wasn't going to work long term.

Surely you jest.

Buff
01-20-2010, 04:55 PM
I really wish folks would stop saying this team is "devoid of talent". 5 Players are going to the probowl. We are no more devoid of talent than any other team in the league right now, except maybe at the QB position.

I know that everyone seems to think that our O-line became complete garbage overnight, and even if they're right (which I don't believe for a second) we have one of the deepest WR corps I've ever seen, solid RBs, the BEST defensive secondary in the league, and a solid LB corps.

We are a LOT better off than a lot of other teams out there. You think because we need a G, C, and a NT to fit the 3-4 that we're completely devoid of talent? G is the EASIEST spot to fill on the offense. We have two EXCELLENT OTs. Young and talented RBs and WRs.

Our problem hasn't been talent in a long time. It's been coaching.

Show me a coach who could win with the 2007 and 2008 defenses. I don't think one exists.

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 04:55 PM
By that same token, I think the people who are anti McD frame the stories how they want to frame them and ignore the inconvenient truth that maybe things aren't as bad as the national media would lead us to believe.

I laid it out in a post yesterday where essentially there are 7 people who have exited or want out of Denver: Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Scheffler, Turner, Dennison and Nolan. Turner and Dennison got promotions and left to coach with good friends... Those don't strike me as indictments of the coach. Cutler turns the ball over too much, Marshall is too selfish and we can debate the merits of Scheffler and Hillis.

Granted, I would like to curb some of the drama and the "he said she said" stuff, but at the end of the day I think people get all worked up into a frenzy over the media headlines--but what has the organization really lost? Has McD really mismanaged these things as badly as some want us to believe?

Time will tell.

Amen Brother!


Er... Right on!

Buff
01-20-2010, 05:01 PM
Surely you jest.

What is it that you disagree with?

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 05:06 PM
Show me a coach who could win with the 2007 and 2008 defenses. I don't think one exists.

Show me a coach that couldn't win with the 2009 defense (ranked 7th in the league) ahem - Josh McDaniels.


You could say that the 2007 and 2008 defenses were poor, but really was it talent, or was it Slowik? Indianapolis has had one of the worst defenses in the league since Peyton Manning has been there. Their defensive woes haven't stopped them from being a perennial playoff team for the last decade.

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 05:07 PM
I really wish folks would stop saying this team is "devoid of talent". 5 Players are going to the probowl. We are no more devoid of talent than any other team in the league right now, except maybe at the QB position.

I know that everyone seems to think that our O-line became complete garbage overnight, and even if they're right (which I don't believe for a second) we have one of the deepest WR corps I've ever seen, solid RBs, the BEST defensive secondary in the league, and a solid LB corps.

We are a LOT better off than a lot of other teams out there. You think because we need a G, C, and a NT to fit the 3-4 that we're completely devoid of talent? G is the EASIEST spot to fill on the offense. We have two EXCELLENT OTs. Young and talented RBs and WRs.

Our problem hasn't been talent in a long time. It's been coaching.

Since I suspect you were referring to me let me highlight the pertinent lines in my quote below.


I agree 100% with this.

Everyone that thought we would be a playoff team where fooling themselves, and after the 6-0 start I was almost convinced we would be.

But when you look at just how devoid of talent this team really was, yes I know jay and BM were "pro bowlers" and the OLINE was supposedly the best in the NFL. After one season I think we all realize that jay isn't all the shintz that he was supposed to be and our loin folded when it counted trying to do what all OLINES can do "BLOCK" that guy in front of them.

Now did dennison fail in teaching them the power game or where the players the one at fault. yes I know they were not designed for it but is it not the coaches fault for convincing Josh not to make the change if he knows it is going to fail?


Look there was a lot of reason for failure this past year, and the buck does stop at the top But I believe that Josh has a plan that Pat and the CFO bought into when he was hired and he should be allowed to see it through.

the doom and gloom choir will continue to sing in harmony about Josh being the root of all evil. But they have to move on to embrace changes from the old ways. or be left behind to snipe at any failure no matter how minor.

What I find funny is that they were not to be found the past few years as the Broncos they loved so dearly, were crumbling.

I was referring to 2008.

This team had ZERO back up in mikes last year here had Harris went down then just how good do you think jay would have done.

Our RB core for the most part is no longer in the NFL.

The defense for the most part was total joke in talent. having lousy coaches then did not help matters.

Yes, we had a passing game and we were outstanding between the 20's but sucked scoring. mike allowed jay and marshall to run amuck as his job was on the line, hoping they would save his ass. IMHO

Just a few examples of DEVIOD of talent. Care to rebut now?

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 05:08 PM
Why? According to some it was all McD's doing in terms of the success of the defense anyway. Nolan was just standing on the sidelines. :lol:


to whom are you referring.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 05:10 PM
By that same token, I think the people who are anti McD frame the stories how they want to frame them and ignore the inconvenient truth that maybe things aren't as bad as the national media would lead us to believe.

I laid it out in a post yesterday where essentially there are 7 people who have exited or want out of Denver: Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Scheffler, Turner, Dennison and Nolan. Turner and Dennison got promotions and left to coach with good friends... Those don't strike me as indictments of the coach. Cutler turns the ball over too much, Marshall is too selfish and we can debate the merits of Scheffler and Hillis.

Granted, I would like to curb some of the drama and the "he said she said" stuff, but at the end of the day I think people get all worked up into a frenzy over the media headlines--but what has the organization really lost? Has McD really mismanaged these things as badly as some want us to believe?

Time will tell.

GREAT post Buff -

Is there anyone on here who can PROVE that there was not a shakeup when Shanahan took over - can any one PROVE that he kept all coaches and players who were on the team before he took over??????????

Is that NOT want a new coach DOES - if a new coach does NOT make changes, then it makes NO SENSE to bring in a NEW coach

Today Mike Evans and some of the callers on FM104.3 the fan brought up some good points - Shanahan TOTALLY split the lockerroom with the Cutler/Plummer situation, which Rod Smith stated happened, Shanahan let players like Trevor Pryce, Al Wilson, Bertrum Barry, etc., etc., go

Northman
01-20-2010, 05:12 PM
What is it that you disagree with?

Nothing, i was in complete agreement with you. But some would turn a blind eye to the report about McDaniels wanting to step on Nolan's toes which helped make Nolan's decision to leave much easier.

Buff
01-20-2010, 05:12 PM
Show me a coach that couldn't win with the 2009 defense (ranked 7th in the league) ahem - Josh McDaniels.


You could say that the 2007 and 2008 defenses were poor, but really was it talent, or was it Slowik? Indianapolis has had one of the worst defenses in the league since Peyton Manning has been there. Their defensive woes haven't stopped them from being a perennial playoff team for the last decade.

Well, Slowik was undoubtedly a huge problem, but there was definitely a complete absence of talent as well. Look at all the guys (some starters) who got purged from last year's defense and never caught on with another team: Winborn, Webster, Engleberger, McCree, Robertson, Manuel, Lowry, etc.

Northman
01-20-2010, 05:13 PM
to whom are you referring.

You want names? Could take me a while to weed through all the posts again but there are a good chunk of people who believe that McD had more to do with the success of the defense than Nolan himself. I would not lie.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 05:14 PM
Since I suspect you were referring to me let me highlight the pertinent lines in my quote below.



I was referring to 2008.

This team had ZERO back up in mikes last year here had Harris went down then just how good do you think jay would have done.

Our RB core for the most part is no longer in the NFL.

The defense for the most part was total joke in talent. having lousy coaches then did not help matters.

Yes, we had a passing game and we were outstanding between the 20's but sucked scoring. mike allowed jay and marshall to run amuck as his job was on the line, hoping they would save his ass. IMHO

Just a few examples of DEVIOD of talent. Care to rebut now?

2nd ranked offense. O-line that gave up some of the fewest sacks in the NFL. Offense that ranked in the top half of the league regardless of who the RB was. Let's see, Dumervil was here, Champ was here, DJ was here, so there were some defensive playmakers.

My point is, it's not like McDaniels walked into the 0-16 Detroit Lions and miraculously made us 8-8 in one year. He took an 8-8 team and kept it 8-8. We'll see how it turns out when he finally gets all of "his guys" in here. this team is FAR FROM devoid of talent. If anything, his running off of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Nolan, and probably Dumervil too (if we were going to keep him, we'd probably at least tried to re-sign him by now) has made this team MORE DEVOID OF TALENT!

Tned-Mobile
01-20-2010, 05:19 PM
Not really a good comparison at all. Aside from the obvious fact that players and coaches contracts are handled differently... It appears that both sides had certain disagreements in terms of philosophy and both sides had other options. Why would McD take a hard line with a coach who wanted to work elsewhere? He would be setting himself up for failure.

Why take a hard line with a player that wants to play elsewhere? Many have made the case for guys like Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and others being kicked off the team, regardless of how, because they aren't 100% team focused -- they don't want to play here.

Anyway, yes, I was making an absurd point, because making the case that McDaniels is being 'nice' by letting a coach out of his contract to make a lateral move, and that no fan that was mad at him being 'mean' to players, should be upset about him being 'nice' to Nolan is also an absurd argument. It's just a silly defense for Nolan being allowed to leave to go elsewhere.

If McDaniels was unhappy with the job he was doing, fine. However, being 'nice' isn't a defense or excuse for letting a coach out of his contract to make a lateral move.

Buff
01-20-2010, 05:26 PM
Why take a hard line with a player that wants to play elsewhere? Many have made the case for guys like Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and others being kicked off the team, regardless of how, because they aren't 100% team focused -- they don't want to play here.

Anyway, yes, I was making an absurd point, because making the case that McDaniels is being 'nice' by letting a coach out of his contract to make a lateral move, and that no fan that was mad at him being 'mean' to players, should be upset about him being 'nice' to Nolan is also an absurd argument. It's just a silly defense for Nolan being allowed to leave to go elsewhere.

If McDaniels was unhappy with the job he was doing, fine. However, being 'nice' isn't a defense or excuse for letting a coach out of his contract to make a lateral move.

Players are assets--they are like currency in the NFL. You can't trade a coach for draft picks (unless he is named Jon Gruden).

Anyway, I don't think "nice" is the right term either. But I do think it's within the realm of possibility that McD would be willing to extend a contractual courtesy to a coach that he might not be willing to extend to a player. It probably made sense to let Nolan walk on a number of levels.

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 05:27 PM
Nothing, i was in complete agreement with you. But some would turn a blind eye to the report about McDaniels wanting to step on Nolan's toes which helped make Nolan's decision to leave much easier.

Again here we have speculation on what happened just like when it was jay said Josh said.

The reporters trying to get the scoop on the report and adding there own OPINION in.

We just do not know for sure what is the truth IF ANY is.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 05:27 PM
Why take a hard line with a player that wants to play elsewhere? Many have made the case for guys like Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and others being kicked off the team, regardless of how, because they aren't 100% team focused -- they don't want to play here.

Anyway, yes, I was making an absurd point, because making the case that McDaniels is being 'nice' by letting a coach out of his contract to make a lateral move, and that no fan that was mad at him being 'mean' to players, should be upset about him being 'nice' to Nolan is also an absurd argument. It's just a silly defense for Nolan being allowed to leave to go elsewhere.

If McDaniels was unhappy with the job he was doing, fine. However, being 'nice' isn't a defense or excuse for letting a coach out of his contract to make a lateral move.

If this is still based on my post, then it is not applicable because I have not
defended anybody to this point. This has drifted far, far from my original point,
which was a comment on the myopia of some posters, not an argument on
McDaniels' behalf, since I have not taken a solid position on the Nolan affair.

-----

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 05:30 PM
You want names? Could take me a while to weed through all the posts again but there are a good chunk of people who believe that McD had more to do with the success of the defense than Nolan himself. I would not lie.

If it floats your boat have a ball.

While I have not read through each post with a fine tooth comb, I do not remember any on on here that has creds that has said that.

I do however remember seeing someone say that Josh "probably" had the final say on FA's. which is to be expected.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 05:33 PM
It just doesn't make good business sense in any industry to keep a disgruntled employee around.

If McD would have forced Nolan to honor his contract in a situation that he wasn't comfortable with, then that would have made him a disgruntled employee. If we've learned anything about McD, it's that he wants everyone heading in the same direction.


it also doesnt make much business sense to pull controll, and start dictating your way or the highway, from the best branch excecutive you have...the only one showing a remarkable improvment and for all intents and purposes the one excec that saved the company from a total collapse

does it?

Tned-Mobile
01-20-2010, 05:36 PM
Players are assets--they are like currency in the NFL. You can't trade a coach for draft picks (unless he is named Jon Gruden).

Anyway, I don't think "nice" is the right term either. But I do think it's within the realm of possibility that McD would be willing to extend a contractual courtesy to a coach that he might not be willing to extend to a player. It probably made sense to let Nolan walk on a number of levels.

Like I said, if this was an alternative to firing him, or McD was glad to see him want out, then it's great. Works for both sides. Short of that, NFL teams typically don't let coaches leave for lateral moves. If a coach (head coach or coordinator) is talented and doing a good job, you don't send him to the competition out of the goodness of your heart.

On the flip side, when someone like Heimerdinger was allowed to leave here (assistant head coach offense) to go to Tenn as an OC, it was because he had failed miserably as the OC, so the organization was more than willing to 'grant' him his desire to leave.

topscribe
01-20-2010, 05:39 PM
Like I said, if this was an alternative to firing him, or McD was glad to see him want out, then it's great. Works for both sides. Short of that, NFL teams typically don't let coaches leave for lateral moves. If a coach (head coach or coordinator) is talented and doing a good job, you don't send him to the competition out of the goodness of your heart.

On the flip side, when someone like Heimerdinger was allowed to leave here (assistant head coach offense) to go to Tenn as an OC, it was because he had failed miserably as the OC, so the organization was more than willing to 'grant' him his desire to leave.

In lieu of canning his ass. Yes, that might be regarded as "superficially nice." :D

-----

Buff
01-20-2010, 05:44 PM
Like I said, if this was an alternative to firing him, or McD was glad to see him want out, then it's great. Works for both sides. Short of that, NFL teams typically don't let coaches leave for lateral moves. If a coach (head coach or coordinator) is talented and doing a good job, you don't send him to the competition out of the goodness of your heart.

On the flip side, when someone like Heimerdinger was allowed to leave here (assistant head coach offense) to go to Tenn as an OC, it was because he had failed miserably as the OC, so the organization was more than willing to 'grant' him his desire to leave.

True, but when you're dealing with a guy like Mike Nolan who is well respected in the league and is a 2nd generation NFL lifer--you might be more inclined to let him walk than some other assistant coach. That's why I think it makes sense on a number of levels--the reality is that it was probably mutual. But even if Nolan wanted to leave and McD wanted him to stay, I think McD may have been inclined to let Nolan get his wish as opposed to taking a hard line. It just doesn't make sense in that instance.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 05:46 PM
Show me a coach that couldn't win with the 2009 defense (ranked 7th in the league) ahem - Josh McDaniels.


You could say that the 2007 and 2008 defenses were poor, but really was it talent, or was it Slowik? Indianapolis has had one of the worst defenses in the league since Peyton Manning has been there. Their defensive woes haven't stopped them from being a perennial playoff team for the last decade.


thats the problem i have with the whole past year...we had a offense intact that would easily have won the west this year and last...if they were backed by the 7th ranked defense instead of the 29th

we scrape that offense...get alot worse

but rebuild the defense starting with a expert defensive coach....only to scrape that part right after the season

how is this making our team better??? i dont get it

as for the 08 it was a combination...mainly slowick but alot of manual and mcree, enngleberger and websters.....

but i wil say this..i would bet a stack of slightly sticky hustlers that nolan could have taken that exact same bunch from 08 and had them at least 15th

Buff
01-20-2010, 05:46 PM
it also doesnt make much business sense to pull controll, and start dictating your way or the highway, from the best branch excecutive you have...the only one showing a remarkable improvment and for all intents and purposes the one excec that saved the company from a total collapse

does it?

Well, to agree with that statement I'd have to buy your premise that Nolan is "one excec that saved the company from a total collapse." Which I don't.

shank
01-20-2010, 05:48 PM
Like I said, if this was an alternative to firing him, or McD was glad to see him want out, then it's great. Works for both sides. Short of that, NFL teams typically don't let coaches leave for lateral moves. If a coach (head coach or coordinator) is talented and doing a good job, you don't send him to the competition out of the goodness of your heart.

On the flip side, when someone like Heimerdinger was allowed to leave here (assistant head coach offense) to go to Tenn as an OC, it was because he had failed miserably as the OC, so the organization was more than willing to 'grant' him his desire to leave.

but nolan was doing (in most people's opinions) a very good job here in denver... so him leaving had to be either because McD decided so, or because McD is just that nice.

i'm going to guess that, for whatever reason, it's the former, and i'm not too happy about it.

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 05:50 PM
2nd ranked offense. O-line that gave up some of the fewest sacks in the NFL. Offense that ranked in the top half of the league regardless of who the RB was. Let's see, Dumervil was here, Champ was here, DJ was here, so there were some defensive playmakers.

My point is, it's not like McDaniels walked into the 0-16 Detroit Lions and miraculously made us 8-8 in one year. He took an 8-8 team and kept it 8-8. We'll see how it turns out when he finally gets all of "his guys" in here. this team is FAR FROM devoid of talent. If anything, his running off of Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Nolan, and probably Dumervil too (if we were going to keep him, we'd probably at least tried to re-sign him by now) has made this team MORE DEVOID OF TALENT!

Ok point by point

2nd ranked offense sure it was but it was the IIRC 19th ranked in scoring. so it was GREAT between the 20's or until jay fumbled or threw a pick.

doom was here sure was and played only sparingly when it was an obvious passing down, had 6 sacks IIRC.

We had two starters on D from 2008 play last year on D, Champ and DJ who if you remember was playing MLB the 3rd change in position in his 4 years here.

I'm not sure what you and most of the haters do not get, you can't win with out talent and having talent that will not buy into what you were hired to do here. Is not going to win you many games.

If stories were true Josh tried to peddle Scheffler and Hillis for Drafty choice before the draft. Smart move if he was going on Bobby turners assessment, of Hillis (rumor had it that Josh thought highly of Bobby and allowed "his" Rb's to get most of the reps and playing time).

frankly I think that maybe more truth than fiction. as we all know how good Hillis was when he was the last man standing last year, and Josh has said nothing but good things about him. In fact after a couple of the OTAs he commented that he may have not drafted Moreno if he would have know how good Hillis looked seeing him on the field was much better than just seeing him on film.

As for Scheffler I think once they found out no one wanted him they tried to incorporate him in the game but since he was a lousy blocker, well that sealed his fate. got just enough shots to show case him a bit.

Perhaps devoid of talent was a bit strong maybe shallow on talent would have been a better term. we did as you mentioned have DJ, Champ, and Doom all either playing out of position or underplaying them.

as for the O stars jay did not want to be here after mike left, marshall well if you think he is going to be anything but another TO well good for you.

as for rung coaches out of town, two of them wanted promotions, and since neither of them were going to be great at the direction we are going say la vie.

I think Josh wanted to incorporate some ZBS into the Power guard pulling scheme he used in NE. as well as mike trying to incorporate more of the guard pulling scheme that NE used into our scheme the past few years.

Now am I right or your bunch of Josh non believers?

Time will tell.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 05:50 PM
Well, to agree with that statement I'd have to buy your premise that Nolan is "one excec that saved the company from a total collapse." Which I don't.


then you need to examine the first six games to see who exactly won those?..was it the defense that allowed a mere 10 points in the entire six second halfs of the games...the defense that didnt allow but a couple second half 3rd down conversions..which nolan controlled

or the pathetic offense

Tned-Mobile
01-20-2010, 05:50 PM
True, but when you're dealing with a guy like Mike Nolan who is well respected in the league and is a 2nd generation NFL lifer--you might be more inclined to let him walk than some other assistant coach. That's why I think it makes sense on a number of levels--the reality is that it was probably mutual. But even if Nolan wanted to leave and McD wanted him to stay, I think McD may have been inclined to let Nolan get his wish as opposed to taking a hard line. It just doesn't make sense in that instance.

It makes sense for other teams all around the league, which is why they have rules about which coaches under contract are allowed to interview for other coaching positions.

Sorry, while I don't think McDaniels should be crucified for this, those making excuses for him are simply being McDaniels apologists when it isn't needed.

shank
01-20-2010, 05:56 PM
then you need to examine the first six games to see who exactly won those?..was it the defense that allowed a mere 10 points in the entire six second halfs of the games...the defense that didnt allow but a couple second half 3rd down conversions..which nolan controlled

or the pathetic offense

while i'm not agreeing with your earlier statement fully, you have a point.

what nolan did with the defense impressed me MUCH more than what McD did with our offense.

the main reason i'm holding back from agreeing fully, is we don't know how much influence McD actually had on the defense... but honestly, i'm guessing not very much. :whoknows:

Buff
01-20-2010, 06:01 PM
It makes sense for other teams all around the league, which is why they have rules about which coaches under contract are allowed to interview for other coaching positions.

Sorry, while I don't think McDaniels should be crucified for this, those making excuses for him are simply being McDaniels apologists when it isn't needed.

I'm just trying to look at the situation logically. I don't see myself as a McD apologist at all.

My only point in responding to your posts specifically was that there are guys you take a hard line with and guys you don't. It would be incredibly stupid for Josh McDaniels to try and force Mike Nolan's hand for a couple of reasons-- A.) Why would you want to create a toxic work environment and be in meetings with a guy everyday who you know doesn't want to be there? B.) Mike Nolan doesn't need Josh McDaniels or the job with the Broncos. He is very well connected in the league and probably knows guys on all 32 staffs--why would McD want to burn that bridge? What would he stand to gain by doing so? A disgruntled employee who wants to leave after next season.

So, again, "nice" isn't the right word. But Nolan probably gets considerations that the Bobby Turners and Rick Dennisons of the world do not get.

Buff
01-20-2010, 06:03 PM
the main reason i'm holding back from agreeing fully, is we don't know how much influence McD actually had on the defense... but honestly, i'm guessing not very much. :whoknows:

Based on what exactly? None of us even have the slightest clue. I'd be more inclined to lean the other way and say that McD probably had more of an influence on the defense than we know--but that's just wild speculation as well.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 06:03 PM
Ok point by point

2nd ranked offense sure it was but it was the IIRC 19th ranked in scoring. so it was GREAT between the 20's or until jay fumbled or threw a pick.

doom was here sure was and played only sparingly when it was an obvious passing down, had 6 sacks IIRC.

We had two starters on D from 2008 play last year on D, Champ and DJ who if you remember was playing MLB the 3rd change in position in his 4 years here.

I'm not sure what you and most of the haters do not get, you can't win with out talent and having talent that will not buy into what you were hired to do here. Is not going to win you many games.

If stories were true Josh tried to peddle Scheffler and Hillis for Drafty choice before the draft. Smart move if he was going on Bobby turners assessment, of Hillis (rumor had it that Josh thought highly of Bobby and allowed "his" Rb's to get most of the reps and playing time).

frankly I think that maybe more truth than fiction. as we all know how good Hillis was when he was the last man standing last year, and Josh has said nothing but good things about him. In fact after a couple of the OTAs he commented that he may have not drafted Moreno if he would have know how good Hillis looked seeing him on the field was much better than just seeing him on film.

As for Scheffler I think once they found out no one wanted him they tried to incorporate him in the game but since he was a lousy blocker, well that sealed his fate. got just enough shots to show case him a bit.

Perhaps devoid of talent was a bit strong maybe shallow on talent would have been a better term. we did as you mentioned have DJ, Champ, and Doom all either playing out of position or underplaying them.

as for the O stars jay did not want to be here after mike left, marshall well if you think he is going to be anything but another TO well good for you.

as for rung coaches out of town, two of them wanted promotions, and since neither of them were going to be great at the direction we are going say la vie.

I think Josh wanted to incorporate some ZBS into the Power guard pulling scheme he used in NE. as well as mike trying to incorporate more of the guard pulling scheme that NE used into our scheme the past few years.

Now am I right or your bunch of Josh non believers?

Time will tell.

you need to get your points correct first

for one in 08 we were the 16th ranked scoreing offense...not 19th..we are the 20th this year...despite not having ....all of cutler so called ints and fumbles in the redzone:coffee:

doom was the fulltime starting DE last year and 07...his problem was the bates and slowick hold and react philosophy for the DTs that allowed the qbs to step up..not his skills


as for scheff...it wasnt his lack of blocking that put him on the auction block..it was because he spoke to the media about his displeasure on the cutler deal...as for blocking...do you realize he isnt a blocking TE..he's better in the block the gates..teams have a blocking TE and a pass catching TE..grahm and scheffler...which ones which?

NightTrainLayne
01-20-2010, 06:12 PM
then you need to examine the first six games to see who exactly won those?..was it the defense that allowed a mere 10 points in the entire six second halfs of the games...the defense that didnt allow but a couple second half 3rd down conversions..which nolan controlled

or the pathetic offense

People's memory's are so short.

In the first six games:

Two games the offense put up a bunch of points (Cleveland, Oakland).

One Game Special Teams won the game according to some, but the offense still produced well also (San Diego).

Three games I'll grant that the defense won for us (Cincinatti, Dallas, New England). However, it's interesting to note that in both the Dallas and New England games we trailed by 10 points mid-way through the game and the offense did catch us back up. The defense didn't play lights-out in the first half of those two games.

We were playing pretty well on both sides of the ball during those first six games. Not as well on offense, but well enough.

Lonestar
01-20-2010, 06:15 PM
you need to get your points correct first

for one in 08 we were the 16th ranked scoreing offense...not 19th..we are the 20th this year...despite not having ....all of cutler so called ints and fumbles in the redzone:coffee:

doom was the fulltime starting DE last year and 07...his problem was the bates and slowick hold and react philosophy for the DTs that allowed the qbs to step up..not his skills


as for scheff...it wasnt his lack of blocking that put him on the auction block..it was because he spoke to the media about his displeasure on the cutler deal...as for blocking...do you realize he isnt a blocking TE..he's better in the block the gates..teams have a blocking TE and a pass catching TE..grahm and scheffler...which ones which?



OK I was wrong so 16 is so much better than 19. yep 19 points total for all year a shade of one per game.

As for DOOM I think you're partially correct he started 15 games and had a whooping 5 sacks, 16th on the team in tackles with 24. we all know he was pulled out of the lineup for non passing situations.

perhaps it was his big mouth that got him in the doghouse where else should he have been? as it was he did not prove anything on the field.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 06:22 PM
to further your cutler turnover part.. jrwiz

i do know this much....people can harp on cutler all they want...he threw 18 ints in 08...but threw the ball 614 times..a huge number..but he played his entire career in denver with a defense that ALLOWED 28 POINTS PER GAME...
we can say how much better orton is..which is a lie

ortons record alone in 09 is 0-5 when the defense allowed 28 points

in the last crucial 5 games the defense allowed 27 points per game..he was 1-4

cutler in 08 with the defense allowing 28 points per game..threw a int every 34 attempts....orton in the last 5 games with the defense allowing 27 points..threw a pick every 28 attempts

Dean
01-20-2010, 07:32 PM
Here is yet another account of what transpired from Pro Football Times.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/20/report-mcdaniels-told-nolan-there-would-be-less-blitzing/


PFT

ContactFeedsAdvertisingPrivacy PolicyReport: McDaniels told Nolan there would be less blitzing
Posted by Mike Florio on January 20, 2010 11:42 AM ET
As folks in Denver try to figure out why Mike Nolan is no longer the team's defensive coordinator, Ron Borges of the Boston Herald reports that the divorce was caused not by Bill Parcells sniffing around for someone to run Miami's defense, but by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels trying to tell Nolan how to do his job.

Per Borges, McDaniels told Nolan "in no uncertain terms" that the Broncos would be blitzing less frequently in 2010 than they did in 2009.

And so the two men decided to part ways.

A cynic might think that McDaniels simply wanted to hire former Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees, and that Pees possibly was motivated to add to the coaching staff a guy with NFL head-coaching experience, who could be a viable candidate to take over the Broncos on an interim basis if the 2-8 momentum to end McDaniels' first season continues into his second.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 08:00 PM
then you need to examine the first six games to see who exactly won those?..was it the defense that allowed a mere 10 points in the entire six second halfs of the games...the defense that didnt allow but a couple second half 3rd down conversions..which nolan controlled

or the pathetic offense

It was Marshall and Stokley making crazy great plays......ON OFFENSE

roomemp
01-20-2010, 08:16 PM
to further your cutler turnover part.. jrwiz

i do know this much....people can harp on cutler all they want...he threw 18 ints in 08...but threw the ball 614 times..a huge number..but he played his entire career in denver with a defense that ALLOWED 28 POINTS PER GAME...
we can say how much better orton is..which is a lie

ortons record alone in 09 is 0-5 when the defense allowed 28 points

in the last crucial 5 games the defense allowed 27 points per game..he was 1-4

cutler in 08 with the defense allowing 28 points per game..threw a int every 34 attempts....orton in the last 5 games with the defense allowing 27 points..threw a pick every 28 attempts

Orton didn't allow rushing defense to allow the following (598 rushing yards in the last 5 games of the season. I am just counting the opposing team's leading rusher. thats an average of 119 yards a game.

Orton's stats the last 5 games: 1325 yards 9 TD's and 6 Int's.........I would say that is not too shabby. Not great, but he is not the reason we lost down the stretch.

We lost because we couldn't rush the ball or stop the rush on defense.

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:22 PM
Again here we have speculation on what happened just like when it was jay said Josh said.

The reporters trying to get the scoop on the report and adding there own OPINION in.

We just do not know for sure what is the truth IF ANY is.

If thats the case maybe we ought to ban any articles on all things Broncos. It seems everyone is using them for their own agendas. If they are all speculative than they are pointless all together. Sounds like a huge waste of time for everyone at this point.

roomemp
01-20-2010, 08:28 PM
If thats the case maybe we ought to ban any articles on all things Broncos. It seems everyone is using them for their own agendas. If they are all speculative than they are pointless all together. Sounds like a huge waste of time for everyone at this point.

Actually most articles are a huge waste of time when you think about it. Its peoples opinions. Not facts. I think the majority of us know that we just read them because we are crazy dedicated Broncos fans and read anything that says Broncos on it. I imagine there are people on this site that can right a better piece than what Paige puts out there.

Northman
01-20-2010, 08:30 PM
Actually most articles are a huge waste of time when you think about it. Its peoples opinions. Not facts. I think the majority of us know that we just read them because we are crazy dedicated Broncos fans and read anything that says Broncos on it. I imagine there are people on this site that can right a better piece than what Paige puts out there.

Oh, i have no doubt about that.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-20-2010, 09:48 PM
Actually most articles are a huge waste of time when you think about it. Its peoples opinions. Not facts. I think the majority of us know that we just read them because we are crazy dedicated Broncos fans and read anything that says Broncos on it. I imagine there are people on this site that can right a better piece than what Paige puts out there.

True, but like almost all of the posters here love to say "McDaniels knows more about football than most of us ever will" or something like that, and take everything as gospel that leaves his lips, then why wouldn't we do the same for guys like Woody Paige who's been covering Denver sports since McDaniels was playing peewee football? Does he not know anything about journalism? Are his sources in Denver unreliable after all these years?

Why shouldn't I believe articles written by journalists whose job it is to cover the Broncos 365 days a year? We love them when they praise the team and love to hate them when they criticize, but does it make them wrong, either way? It gives us stuff to talk about at least. We can all say "we don't know what was really said, done, happened behind closed doors" all we want, but ya know, if it looks enough like a duck and quacks enough like a duck....


it might just be Josh McDaniels. :2cents:

nevcraw
01-20-2010, 10:29 PM
or..... maybe nolan would rather surf than ski ?:beer:

there's no surf in Miami.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-20-2010, 11:35 PM
http://twitter.com/VicLombardi

Despite what you've read, the blitz package had nothing to do with McD-Nolan divorce. Just two different coaching styles.

Timmy!
01-20-2010, 11:55 PM
http://gadgetsteria.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/angry-mob.jpeg

/thread

topscribe
01-21-2010, 01:04 AM
there's no surf in Miami.

Guess he'll have to buy a pair of water skis.

Maybe he would enjoy flying a kite in the next hurricane . . .

-----

topscribe
01-21-2010, 01:10 AM
True, but like almost all of the posters here love to say "McDaniels knows more about football than most of us ever will" or something like that, and take everything as gospel that leaves his lips, then why wouldn't we do the same for guys like Woody Paige who's been covering Denver sports since McDaniels was playing peewee football? Does he not know anything about journalism? Are his sources in Denver unreliable after all these years?

Why shouldn't I believe articles written by journalists whose job it is to cover the Broncos 365 days a year? We love them when they praise the team and love to hate them when they criticize, but does it make them wrong, either way? It gives us stuff to talk about at least. We can all say "we don't know what was really said, done, happened behind closed doors" all we want, but ya know, if it looks enough like a duck and quacks enough like a duck....


it might just be Josh McDaniels. :2cents:

Most of you probably weren't around when Woody began to cover Denver
sports. Don't let all his facelifts fool you.

Nonetheless, as a ninth grader, I was delivering the Rocky Mountain News, for
whom Woody was writing, when I first began to read his garba . . . uh, work.

I dunno . . . I can't figure whether he has gotten worse or I've gotten smarter . . . :confused:


*Actually, it wasn't that long ago. I think I was around 30 or something* :heh:

-----

topscribe
01-21-2010, 01:16 AM
People's memory's are so short.

In the first six games:

Two games the offense put up a bunch of points (Cleveland, Oakland).

One Game Special Teams won the game according to some, but the offense still produced well also (San Diego).

Three games I'll grant that the defense won for us (Cincinatti, Dallas, New England). However, it's interesting to note that in both the Dallas and New England games we trailed by 10 points mid-way through the game and the offense did catch us back up. The defense didn't play lights-out in the first half of those two games.

We were playing pretty well on both sides of the ball during those first six games. Not as well on offense, but well enough.

Actually, as it turned out, Denver's offense beat San Diego's offense in their
first game. If one takes away Denver's two ST TDs, then one would have to
take away SD's ST TD. Denver still wins by 4 points . . .

-----