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broncofaninfla
01-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Analysis: Divergent paths for Broncos' Moreno, Jets' Greene


By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post


Posted: 01/19/2010 01:00:00 AM MST




Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14217751#ixzz0d61LNXeB (http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14217751#ixzz0d61LNXeB)



Eleven months ago, they were simply RB 10 and RB 22 at the NFL's scouting combine.

RB 10 was Iowa's Shonn Greene, the Big Ten's offensive player of the year and the only runner in the Football Bowl Subdivision to rush for at least 100 yards in every game of the 2008 season — 13 games in all.
He finished with 1,850 yards on 6 yards a carry to go with 20 touchdowns. He won the Doak Walker Award.
When all of the breakdowns were done, folks loved what he did in 2008 but were concerned he had just 69 carries combined in his two other collegiate seasons and missed another because of academics in 2007, and then had to regain admission to Iowa in 2008 after a stint in junior college.
RB 22 was Knowshon Moreno, who had topped 1,300 yards rushing in each of his two college seasons, including six 100-yard games in 2007 to go with seven in 2008.
Greene, at 227 pounds, ran 4.65 seconds on the electronic clock in the 40-yard dash at the combine. Moreno, at 217 pounds, ran 4.62. Hand-timed, Greene ran a 4.55 at his pro day in Iowa City to go with a 39-inch vertical jump.
Coming off what he said at the time was a case of the flu that had him down to about 211 pounds for his pro day, Moreno ran a 4.6 hand-timed in his on-campus workout.
So, given what Greene has done in this postseason — two 100-yard rushing games — as the Jets have bullied their way into the AFC championship game, the question is rattling around about why Moreno was the 12th pick of the draft by the Broncos and Greene had to wait until the first pick of the third round for the Jets to take him.
From a football perspective, Greene looked like a pro runner in 2008 because he maintained his speed late in games and simply overpowered defenses as the game wore on. He ran with a good lean, extending himself forward when he ran and protected himself because of it.
The concerns were his ability to pass block, but the Jets ran the ball


almost 60 percent of the time in the regular season. They also use plenty of two-back looks and play action, so that isn't as big a concern for them as it would be for a team that opens up the formation and works out of the shotgun like the Broncos and others do.

Some teams were very concerned Greene's body of work was largely just one season — Hawkeyes coaches briefly even considered moving him to defense in 2006 — and that he had flunked out of Iowa in 2007 to miss that season.
But he returned in 2008 to dominate.
Moreno was among the most proficient pass blockers at the position in the draft, which would push him up the board for teams whose running backs coaches, like the Broncos', had a big voice in the draft room.
That's because rookie backs get on the field when they can block well enough for a quarterback.
Moreno showed good balance when he ran at Georgia, bounced off glancing blows in college and was a quality finisher. He took a lot of hits, however, with a running style more suited to a bigger back than he is.
Often, in the end zone view of his college games, observers could see both numbers on the front of his jersey in traffic, and that's usually an upright runner. Moreno powered through those hits in the SEC but will have to adjust in the NFL with linebackers who are 40 pounds heavier than he is.
That seemed evident as he closed out a rookie year when he routinely struggled after halftime. His numbers will improve some as the Broncos' offensive front does, but the fade in the second half of both games and the season is a concern.
But Greene showed enough power and closing speed to snap off a 53-yard touchdown run in the team's 18th game of the season.
Both runners have written just the first chapter of their respective careers, but Greene, taken 53 slots after the Broncos selected Moreno, has certainly put up a couple of more early exclamation points.

Northman
01-19-2010, 04:42 PM
I was always higher on Greene than i was Moreno. But i hope we get something out of Moreno if and when McD figures out which players are acceptable for his "system".

CoachChaz
01-19-2010, 04:48 PM
I wonder what Moreno could have doen behind Furguson, Faneca, Mangold, Moore and Woody.

Clady is the only guy we have that would start over any of them and it's not because Furguson sucks.

BroncoAV06
01-19-2010, 05:16 PM
I agree Chaz. It is way to easy for people to just look at numbers and say bam this guy was a bust. No where in the artical did he mention the offensive line problems the Broncos had and the fact that after the regular season I heard many folks mention the Jets as the top offensive line in football.

As frustrated as I am with the Broncos I want to see what Moreno can do with some blocking. My opinion on him is different then most people on here of him. Could easily of said why did the Broncos not take Percy Harvin etc.

rationalfan
01-19-2010, 05:20 PM
moreno looks good. but doesn't have that "special" quality you expect from a first round draft pick. and he doesn't have greene's breakaway speed.

arapaho2
01-19-2010, 05:46 PM
again heres my problem

WE NEEDED DEFENSIVE HELP..IMPACT PLAYERS...WE PASSED ON ORAKPO TO DRAFT A RB WE DIDNT NEED TO ADDRESS AT 12#

there were three defensive players selected in the 1st round after moreno that made the probowl

green was drafted 65th....one spot below quinn who we traded two 3rds to reach

even with no name backs...the run game wasnt as big a issue as defense
we can expect all the great things for moreno...build a power block line and maybe he willamount to something

all i see is we could have had doom and orakpo rushing the passer for the next decade..and drafted a back in later rnds or this year

SOCALORADO.
01-19-2010, 05:52 PM
I was always higher on Greene than i was Moreno. But i hope we get something out of Moreno if and when McD figures out which players are acceptable for his "system".

If you were higher on Greene than Moreno, then i had Greene on Mt Everest!!

There was NO RB in last years draft i was higher on than Greene.

Oh well. Dont even get me started on the USC LBs.
*sighs, nods head*

dogfish
01-19-2010, 05:55 PM
yea, it's really not a valid comparison given the drastic difference in run blocking. . .


but i said before the draft that shonn greene was being undervalued and would be a steal if he dropped to the third round where he was being projected. . . people worry too much about 40 times, and not enough about how guys perform on the field. . .

SOCALORADO.
01-19-2010, 05:56 PM
yea, it's really not a valid comparison given the drastic difference in run blocking. . .


but i said before the draft that shonn greene was being undervalued and would be a steal if he dropped to the third round where he was being projected. . . people worry too much about 40 times, and not enough about how guys perform on the field. . .

Greene runs like Emmitt Smith. I am not sayin he is as good, but his style is very much the same. He also gets stronger as the game goes into the 2nd half.

tomjonesrocks
01-19-2010, 06:04 PM
I am more concerned at this point who the Chargers draft to replace LT with. They draft very well, and it won't be hard to dobetter than Moreno. At the place on the board he was drafted, with the needs on this team, he was a poor selection. The jury is in.

titan
01-19-2010, 07:39 PM
If you were higher on Greene than Moreno, then i had Greene on Mt Everest!!

There was NO RB in last years draft i was higher on than Greene.

Oh well. Dont even get me started on the USC LBs.
*sighs, nods head*

I've always been a fan of drafting very productive college players who play in big time conferences. Greene and the USC linebackers maybe didn't stack up with others at their positions from a pure physical talent standpoint but all were extremely productive in college.

That said I did like the Moreno pick at the time (extremely productive at Georgia) but thought the broncos had a good chance to get him at #18.

The draft is fascinating to me - those split second decisions on who to take affects a franchise for years. Hoping McD learned some lessons, as he claims he has, from last year's draft and we see a better draft this year (though I think it's too early to write off the 2009 class)

rationalfan
01-19-2010, 07:41 PM
have to admit, i'm very tired of the "we should have drafted orakpo" thought trap. it's over. forget about it. denver also should have drafted ed reed in 2002 rather than lelie. it's easy to grade the past. too easy.

but i also have to ask this: would orakpo have been a good fit in the 3-4? from my limited redskins watching (just the game vs. denver), i don't think so. also, he greatly benefitted from the presence of haynesworth and carter (you know, leave the least worrisome player the least blocked). part of me thinks john engleberger would have had ten sacks on that redskins team.

Lonestar
01-19-2010, 08:30 PM
have to admit, i'm very tired of the "we should have drafted orakpo" thought trap. it's over. forget about it. denver also should have drafted ed reed in 2002 rather than lelie. it's easy to grade the past. too easy.

but i also have to ask this: would orakpo have been a good fit in the 3-4? from my limited redskins watching (just the game vs. denver), i don't think so. also, he greatly benefitted from the presence of haynesworth and carter (you know, leave the least worrisome player the least blocked). part of me thinks john engleberger would have had ten sacks on that redskins team.


woulda, shoulda, coulda.. many will harp on that for decades..

WARHORSE
01-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Everyone is a genius on what should have happened during the 2009 draft once the season is done.



Lame as lame can be.

hamrob
01-19-2010, 10:10 PM
Moreno = Mike Bell

Moreno has neither size or speed.

His only chance is to cut once and hit the hole...ala TD and TD was faster IMO.

Moreno likes to dance behind the line instead of running down hill. He sees himself as a star (like he was in college)...he's only average in the pros.

Many folks called this one prior to draft. He's just about as poor a pick as was Moss. And Ayers....what a waste! And Smith, and Quinn...I need some aspirin!

hamrob
01-19-2010, 10:15 PM
Everyone is a genius on what should have happened during the 2009 draft once the season is done.



Lame as lame can be.Go back and look at the threads prior to the draft...many said that Moreno was a 2nd or 3rd round talent. We needed Defense and went with Moreno.

I'll say it right now....if we pick McClain...it will be mistake. He's a stud in college with a great surrounding cast (ala Matt Stafford etc. at GA.), but his speed is less than great and he's a straight line player. He'll probably run a 4.7 at the combine...but teams will reach. Let's try not to be the victems of this one.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-19-2010, 10:27 PM
Ya know...historically, most NFL players weren't gods in year 1. I know this is a fast food, ATM society, but why not give the rooks a chance to develop for more than 8 months before we label em busts. Our line sucked after week 6. Moreno will be fine. So will Ayers...and likely Smith. I am still confused on Quinn though.

Nomad
01-19-2010, 10:35 PM
Ya know...historically, most NFL players weren't gods in year 1. I know this is a fast food, ATM society, but why not give the rooks a chance to develop for more than 8 months before we label em busts. Our line sucked after week 6. Moreno will be fine. So will Ayers...and likely Smith. I am still confused on Quinn though.

You forgot to throw in 'internet' and 'I want it now'!!:D

topscribe
01-19-2010, 10:37 PM
Moreno = Mike Bell

Moreno has neither size or speed.

His only chance is to cut once and hit the hole...ala TD and TD was faster IMO.

Moreno likes to dance behind the line instead of running down hill. He sees himself as a star (like he was in college)...he's only average in the pros.

Many folks called this one prior to draft. He's just about as poor a pick as was Moss. And Ayers....what a waste! And Smith, and Quinn...I need some aspirin!

Actually, Moreno is faster. And he does weigh 217 . . . about TD's size.

I became concerned about KM's dancing, but then I got to thinking: Would he
dance if he saw some crease, somewhere? Everything to the right of Clady
had gone to hell, and it just didn't look as if there were a lot of places to run.
I would like to see the line to at least a reasonable job, and KM with a camp
under his belt, before I make up my mind there . . .

-----

Mike
01-19-2010, 10:46 PM
I will wait and see what Moreno looks like behind a halfway decent o-line before coming to any conclusions on the kid.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 12:46 AM
woulda, shoulda, coulda.. many will harp on that for decades..


this comeing from the guy who cried for a couple years about needing dline help and how we drafted cutler...thats rich:coffee:

broncofaninfla
01-20-2010, 10:17 AM
The thing that seperates Greene from Moreno is Greene has better vision. On several occasions last week, he made something out of nothing, something Moreno has failed to do to date. Greene just sees the holes better than Moreno and squeezes through the tight ones. Also you don't see Greene go down with arm tackles. The Jets have a better scheme and oline than Denver does but they also have a better back in Greene at this stage.

claymore
01-20-2010, 10:39 AM
Moreno has been the only bright spot this year.

arapaho2
01-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Moreno has been the only bright spot this year.


its not that i dont like moreno...i think he will turn out to be ok, if used right

its the fact defense was our number one concern going into the draft..not running backs...we sit here today bitching about we need a better dline....when we had aurgueably the best de/olb pass rusher in the draft..fall into our laps at 12...and we pass and draft a rb

i know theres a hindsight is 20-20 crowd...but comeon man..when your 31st in qb sacks...31st in turnovers...30th in scoreing def.....you dont draft a rb when the best pass rusher is sitting there like a gift from above

silkamilkamonico
01-20-2010, 02:29 PM
Moreno will be ok. He reminds me of a guy like Addai for the Colts. The unfortunate thing with Moreno is he certainly does not make us "set" at the RB position, and Denver is going to continue to have to get a good young quality RB to replace Buckhalter.

dogfish
01-20-2010, 02:34 PM
its not that i dont like moreno...i think he will turn out to be ok, if used right

its the fact defense was our number one concern going into the draft..not running backs...we sit here today bitching about we need a better dline....when we had aurgueably the best de/olb pass rusher in the draft..fall into our laps at 12...and we pass and draft a rb

i know theres a hindsight is 20-20 crowd...but comeon man..when your 31st in qb sacks...31st in turnovers...30th in scoreing def.....you dont draft a rb when the best pass rusher is sitting there like a gift from above

you might if you think the guy is injury-prone, may not fit your scheme well because you already have a WOLB and you want a bigger SOLB to bang with TEs in the running game, you know the draft is very deep in pass rushers and you need a RB also. . .


besides which, orakpo wouldn't help our defensive line one bit, unless we're planning to switch back to the 4-3. . .