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View Full Version : Relax, folks.



Shazam!
01-19-2010, 01:11 PM
Sure, Nolan helped rebuild a horrid defense. But with the massive personnel changes (more guys like Webster being jettisoned), players like Doom in positions more tailored to their talents and physical attributes was gonna be in the 34, changes on the Line, big leadership and Safety upgrade with Dawkins, the defense was going to be improved regardless of who was running it in the 34 transition. McDaniels would've went to a 34 no matter who was the Coordinator, so this all was going to happen no matter what.

People need to relax a little. We don't even know the whole story. This isn't the end of the world.

If Nolan wanted to go to Miami- Fine. Bye.

If Nolan wanted full control of the Defense, I can understand Josh wanting more input.

If Martindale is named the new Coordinator, good. I prefer promoting from within.

Sure, more change is a little frustrating, but there's nothing we can do about it.

We need to start thinking about the Draft.

There's also been rumors that Philadelphia is going to trade Donovan McNabb, who's in the last year of his contract and they're gonna go with Kolb or Vick as their QB in 2010. I'm surprised nobody started that Thread.

I'm just so sick of this ridiculous drama and divide between Broncos fans that's gone all the way back to 2006. This team is in rebuilding mode, we must face it, and changes are still coming.

Everything will be fine, people.

Dirk
01-19-2010, 01:18 PM
I'm with ya brotha!

I mean...nothing I can do about it anyway. Sit back and see how all the chips fall.

pnbronco
01-19-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm just so sick of this ridiculous drama and divide between Broncos fans that's gone all the way back to 2006. This team is in rebuilding mode, we must face it, and changes are still coming.

I have to totally agree with you here. It's like the whole Jake/Jay war started a snow ball that has turned into 10 Avalanches this year. Fans started fighting in nasty ways back then and it's just gotten worse and now everything is a crises.

Things will get better or they won't, if they don't then we will have more change. If they do, well good I'll enjoy the season more. Either way the only thing I can control is how hard I work in my own life.

Northman
01-19-2010, 02:00 PM
http://www.tccandler.com/images/columnpics/lombardi%20trophy.jpg

Ziggy
01-19-2010, 02:02 PM
http://www.tccandler.com/images/columnpics/lombardi%20trophy.jpg

Wrong forum.

Northman
01-19-2010, 02:03 PM
Wrong forum.

Your right, this is the Broncos area. Damn me to hell.

Nomad
01-19-2010, 02:06 PM
McD should be blamed for letting Kern go because ever since he left things around here have turned topsyturvy:)

broncofaninfla
01-19-2010, 02:06 PM
Your right, this is the Broncos area. Damn me to hell.

Broncos forum?? I thought this was the Patriots forum :D

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Saying relax because there is nothing you can do about it is the same as saying don't celebrate you did nothing to help them win. We are fans of the Broncos and we have a right to get upset or excited

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 02:13 PM
we did have the 26th worst run defense in the league you know ?
i realize we improved alot last year ...but its not like we shut out the raiders and chiefs at home or anything:shocked:

Northman
01-19-2010, 02:14 PM
we did have the 26th worst run defense in the league you know ?
i realize we improved alot last year ...but its not like we shut out the raiders and chiefs at home or anything:shocked:


When you can only manage to score 10 points a game almost any defense will break at that point.

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 02:16 PM
we did have the 26th worst run defense in the league you know ?
i realize we improved alot last year ...but its not like we shut out the raiders and chiefs at home or anything:shocked:

I don't think any of us think the team was awesome this year, it is another step backwards that is frustrating. When can we just move forward and get bettter?

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 02:18 PM
When you can only manage to score 10 points a game almost any defense will break at that point.

uhhh....no
it was jamarcuss freakin' russell and we lost by 1 point and then let the chiefs put a 40 burger on us at home....thats not on the offense this time....sorry

Northman
01-19-2010, 02:20 PM
uhhh....no
it was jamarcuss freakin' russell and we lost by 1 point and then let the chiefs put a 40 burger on us at home....thats not on the offense this time....sorry

Guess it must of been the defense than that brought us to 6-0. Sure wasnt the offense. :lol:

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 02:25 PM
I don't think any of us think the team was awesome this year, it is another step backwards that is frustrating. When can we just move forward and get bettter?

if you have a dc and head coach who are not seeing eye to eye the step backwards would be to continue doing what you are doing.
i really dont see how so many people can sit back and make judgements about something like this with such limited information.
nolan helped turn our d from horrible to middle of the road.
why can we not then assume we can improve again this year by bringing in someone who is familiar with the system we want to run and has proven successful working with the same system and in some cases people.
if you worked in a business and had done well...got offered your own location to build a similar business....would it not make sense to bring in the employees that helped you get the new position in the first place?:confused:

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 02:29 PM
if you have a dc and head coach who are not seeing eye to eye the step backwards would be to continue doing what you are doing.
i really dont see how so many people can sit back and make judgements about something like this with such limited information.
nolan helped turn our d from horrible to middle of the road.
why can we not then assume we can improve again this year by bringing in someone who is familiar with the system we want to run and has proven successful working with the same system and in some cases people.
if you worked in a business and had done well...got offered your own location to build a similar business....would it not make sense to bring in the employees that helped you get the new position in the first place?:confused:

If this was a one time deal with McD sure give him a pass but a pattern has formed with him. He has proven to be the problem, unless you believe it is everyone but me...

turftoad
01-19-2010, 02:30 PM
Sure, Nolan helped rebuild a horrid defense. But with the massive personnel changes (more guys like Webster being jettisoned), players like Doom in positions more tailored to their talents and physical attributes was gonna be in the 34, changes on the Line, big leadership and Safety upgrade with Dawkins, the defense was going to be improved regardless of who was running it in the 34 transition. McDaniels would've went to a 34 no matter who was the Coordinator, so this all was going to happen no matter what.

People need to relax a little. We don't even know the whole story. This isn't the end of the world.

If Nolan wanted to go to Miami- Fine. Bye.

If Nolan wanted full control of the Defense, I can understand Josh wanting more input.

If Martindale is named the new Coordinator, good. I prefer promoting from within.

Sure, more change is a little frustrating, but there's nothing we can do about it.

We need to start thinking about the Draft.

There's also been rumors that Philadelphia is going to trade Donovan McNabb, who's in the last year of his contract and they're gonna go with Kolb or Vick as their QB in 2010. I'm surprised nobody started that Thread.

I'm just so sick of this ridiculous drama and divide between Broncos fans that's gone all the way back to 2006. This team is in rebuilding mode, we must face it, and changes are still coming.

Everything will be fine, people.

Everything will be fine people.................... when McDumbass is gone.

frauschieze
01-19-2010, 02:34 PM
if you worked in a business and had done well...got offered your own location to build a similar business....would it not make sense to bring in the employees that helped you get the new position in the first place?:confused:

Sure, if the business plan was still relevant and the other competition hadn't figured out how to beat it.

G_Money
01-19-2010, 02:34 PM
It's easy to relax when every step is viewed individually.

When you combine them, that's when it gets scary.

McDaniels executes a power play that results in the firing of the draft gurus a month before the draft. This leads to him being woefully underprepared for the draft.

McDaniels spends a top-15 pick on a cornerback - not a Darelle Revis cornerback, but a guy who was totally lost in slot coverage. Hopefully he improves, but will he ever improve enough to be worth a top-15 pick?

He drafts a blocking TE in the second. This leads to an abundance of TEs on the team, which allows him to choose his TE over Shanahan's TE, and leading to Scheffler's ouster - except his guy can't catch or block that we've seen thus far.

He drafts a RB in the first and freezes out the RB/FB that Shanahan drafted, even when the extra 35 pounds and brute strength Hillis has would come in handy.

He swaps special teams centers for no apparent reason, other than his guy is his friend, and furthering grumbling in his own locker room before the season starts.

He trades Cutler because they can't coexist (for whatever reasons) and replaces him with Orton, who should fit a short passing game decently well, but can't stretch a defense, thus helping to destroy the running game because so many guys are in the box.

And then finishes off the running game by going away from the ZBS before he has the personnel to do so and thus losing his two ZBS coaches in the process.

He hires a DC who can actually stop the pass, but doesn't have the personnel to stop the run. This is the start of something potentially good. So naturally it gets sabotaged and the DC leaves after a year, from a city he previously coached in and professes admiration for.

And his feud with Marshall carries over to likely losing the services of one of a handful of guys in history with 3 100-catch seasons.

After a 6-0 start we stumble to a 2-8 finish with a lackluster O and no running D. We need OL and DL work. We need a WR and probably a LB and at some point a better QB, a new DC, a better offensive scheme and gameplan...

And whenever I turn around McDaniels is making it HARDER on himself. Throwing players overboard, losing coaches...

We might need to be patient to see results from what Josh wants to do.

But how long is patient? We're a laughingstock. At what point do you believe you hired Cam Cameron or Mike Shula to do a job instead of Bill Belichick?

When the coach's explanation for everything seems to be "hey, they didn't want to be here" I have to start asking "Well why the hell not?"

As much as Shanny screwed up people weren't running for the hills to avoid working with him or "parting ways" at every opportunity.

This doesn't feel like progress. It doesn't look like progress. And the only people who think it is progress are some folks on this board and a guy in a Broncos office.

Man do I hope you guys can see something I'm missing. It looks to me like T-minus-one-year to another rebuild - this time with the team and the head coach parting ways over a "difference of opinion."

~G

underrated29
01-19-2010, 02:35 PM
oh geeze. Its his attention to detail. Remember that thing that shanny never did. That everyone raved about this past summer. Mcd attention to detail.

Thats what this is. Nolan is moving down the bench because Mcd has the best attention to detail. we do not know what it is, but

Denver Native (Carol)
01-19-2010, 02:37 PM
If this was a one time deal with McD sure give him a pass but a pattern has formed with him. He has proven to be the problem, unless you believe it is everyone but me...

Shanahan is hired as HC in Washington, and he hires a running back coach who was on his staff in Denver - CHECK

After Shanahan is hired as HC, he brings his kid with him to be OC from Houston, so Kubs replaces him with a longtime player/coach from the Broncos, who he is familiar with - CHECK

YEP - it CERTAINLY is Coach McD's fault :confused::confused:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-19-2010, 02:39 PM
Seriously folks, calm the **** down, coaches move, coaches get hired. Quit sounding like a bunch of crying little kids over a defensive coordinator we had for one year whose defense was dismantled down the stretch. He was great for six weeks but so was the rest of the team. He's gone, get the **** over it already, he's gone.

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 02:41 PM
If this was a one time deal with McD sure give him a pass but a pattern has formed with him. He has proven to be the problem, unless you believe it is everyone but me...

i think we tend to look at these situations with....shall we say "tunnelvision"
there are so many factors involved, could nolan have wanted out simply because he hopes to find a hc position? could mcdaniels have wanted control over the draft on both sides of the ball? did the simple fact that the defense (though greatly improved)wore down and or gave up as the year progressed?
or 1000 other possibilities.
the simple fact is ,its mcdaniels butt on the line and in todays nfl he only has another year or 2 to implement his philosphy and system.
if it fails then he will realize he needs to make changes to his way of running things.
if it succeeds we will all be laughing about the time we thought he was ruining the team.
but it will be on him either way and he has to make the decisions (if he even made this one which it has been reported both guys decided it was best to part ways).
there where plenty of people who did not like the nolan signing last year and there will be plenty who dont like our new dc.
that wont change the fact that we may well see a more compitent and complete defensive unit in the orange and blue next season !
or we might not......;)

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 02:42 PM
Shanahan is hired as HC in Washington, and he hires a running back coach who on his staff in Denver - CHECK

After Shanahan is hired as HC, he brings his kid with him to be OC from Houston, so Kubs replaces him with a longtime player/coach from the Broncos, who he is familiar with - CHECK

YEP - it CERTAINLY is Coach McD's fault :confused::confused:

Really you are looking at 2 situations.... I believe all the questionable decissions have been expressed on this forum on many occassions and it is not just 2 of them.
I do not remember Shanahan driving a wedge between himself and the players and the other coaches and the fans.

gregbroncs
01-19-2010, 02:47 PM
As much as Shanny screwed up people weren't running for the hills to avoid working with him or "parting ways" at every opportunity.


~GHow many D coordinators did shanny go through? He had a new one every year for like 4 years because they could not work for him.

broncofaninfla
01-19-2010, 02:48 PM
It's easy to relax when every step is viewed individually.

When you combine them, that's when it gets scary.

McDaniels executes a power play that results in the firing of the draft gurus a month before the draft. This leads to him being woefully underprepared for the draft.

McDaniels spends a top-15 pick on a cornerback - not a Darelle Revis cornerback, but a guy who was totally lost in slot coverage. Hopefully he improves, but will he ever improve enough to be worth a top-15 pick?

He drafts a blocking TE in the second. This leads to an abundance of TEs on the team, which allows him to choose his TE over Shanahan's TE, and leading to Scheffler's ouster - except his guy can't catch or block that we've seen thus far.

He drafts a RB in the first and freezes out the RB/FB that Shanahan drafted, even when the extra 35 pounds and brute strength Hillis has would come in handy.

He swaps special teams centers for no apparent reason, other than his guy is his friend, and furthering grumbling in his own locker room before the season starts.

He trades Cutler because they can't coexist (for whatever reasons) and replaces him with Orton, who should fit a short passing game decently well, but can't stretch a defense, thus helping to destroy the running game because so many guys are in the box.

And then finishes off the running game by going away from the ZBS before he has the personnel to do so and thus losing his two ZBS coaches in the process.

He hires a DC who can actually stop the pass, but doesn't have the personnel to stop the run. This is the start of something potentially good. So naturally it gets sabotaged and the DC leaves after a year, from a city he previously coached in and professes admiration for.

And his feud with Marshall carries over to likely losing the services of one of a handful of guys in history with 3 100-catch seasons.

After a 6-0 start we stumble to a 2-8 finish with a lackluster O and no running D. We need OL and DL work. We need a WR and probably a LB and at some point a better QB, a new DC, a better offensive scheme and gameplan...

And whenever I turn around McDaniels is making it HARDER on himself. Throwing players overboard, losing coaches...

We might need to be patient to see results from what Josh wants to do.

But how long is patient? We're a laughingstock. At what point do you believe you hired Cam Cameron or Mike Shula to do a job instead of Bill Belichick?

When the coach's explanation for everything seems to be "hey, they didn't want to be here" I have to start asking "Well why the hell not?"

As much as Shanny screwed up people weren't running for the hills to avoid working with him or "parting ways" at every opportunity.

This doesn't feel like progress. It doesn't look like progress. And the only people who think it is progress are some folks on this board and a guy in a Broncos office.

Man do I hope you guys can see something I'm missing. It looks to me like T-minus-one-year to another rebuild - this time with the team and the head coach parting ways over a "difference of opinion."

~G

I agree with every word of this.

frauschieze
01-19-2010, 02:49 PM
Shanahan is hired as HC in Washington, and he hires a running back coach who on his staff in Denver - CHECK

After Shanahan is hired as HC, he brings his kid with him to be OC from Houston, so Kubs replaces him with a longtime player/coach from the Broncos, who he is familiar with - CHECK

YEP - it CERTAINLY is Coach McD's fault :confused::confused:

At this point, Turner and Dennison were familiar with McDaniels, no? And yet, they still wanted to go, choosing other organizations over ours. They obviously didn't believe their future was best served in Denver, money or not.

So is THAT McD's fault? MAYBE IT IS! We don't know. But what we DO know is that there's a lot of people who end up leaving or are rumored to be leaving because of McD. Look at the big picture.

Nomad
01-19-2010, 03:05 PM
Send your complaints to or call to complain..... doing it here won't solve much and probably letting them know won't solve much either, but if it helps to get your feelings out then I will be able to sleep tonight:coffee:!! Couldn't find email addresses!!


Denver Broncos Headquarters At Dove Valley
13655 Broncos Pkwy
Englewood, CO 80112
(303) 649-9000

Shazam!
01-19-2010, 03:08 PM
At this point, Turner and Dennison were familiar with McDaniels, no? And yet, they still wanted to go, choosing other organizations over ours.

C'mon Frau... They took promotions. There's a difference. They didn't just make lateral moves.


Send your complaints to or call to complain..... doing it here won't solve much and probably letting them know won't solve much either, but if it helps to get your feelings out then I will be able to sleep tonight!! Couldn't find email addresses!!


Denver Broncos Headquarters At Dove Valley
13655 Broncos Pkwy
Englewood, CO 80112
(303) 649-9000

A lot of good that did during the Cutler fiasco.

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 03:08 PM
What is the point of a forum if you don't want people to express their opinions and or frustrations?

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 03:10 PM
wait a tick !
it is absolutely understandable that people who are good at coaching different styles or systems would move on to teams that use those systems....it happens every year.
should mcD have come in last year ....fired everybody and brought in all the available guru's at each position?
sorry folks it does'nt work that way.
just like with players you have to get who you can to improve .and test the rest to see if they can conform to the new scheme.
i dont agree with letting nolan walk...but thats what he did .
nowhere has it been said he was fired or it was mcd's decision
besides i dont give a crap if we have the best defense in the league for 4-6 weeks. we had that in 06'
our new dc will be the 5th in 5 years....big whoop !
i want to see people with a common plan.....a common goal.....from the f/o to hc to the waterboy !
there can be only one captain of a ship,or you have MUTINY !
and the good ship bronco did'nt get to its destination ....but it did'nt go backwards either.
so unless she starts listing heavely ill give him another season or 2 to get her to port !
i like all the possibilities the metaphor of the ship brings up.....coaches walking the plank,,players abandoning ship etc.....

Shazam!
01-19-2010, 03:12 PM
What is the point of a forum if you don't want people to express their opinions and or frustrations?

That's not it at all.

It's just the same rehashed bullshit over and over again.

People are hammering McDaniels without knowing the whole story.

The constant slicing and dicing of McD is just so old, criticism of the Broncos are constant ad nauseum.

Nonstop bickering between Broncos fans has been the case for too long.

This has gone back to 2006-

Jake's gotta go.

Cutler must start.

Plummer sucks.

Cutler starts.

I miss Plummer.

Shanahan fired?! NOOOOO!

McDaniels sucks!

McDaniels sucks II.

It's just tiring.

Nomad
01-19-2010, 03:15 PM
What is the point of a forum if you don't want people to express their opinions and or frustrations?

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over....how much can one repeat themselves and whine??? Come up with opinions with solutions with what we have. McDaniels isn't going anywhere for at least another year, and Pees will probably be the DC. Find a way to complain and whine to the organization because we pretty much know where people stand here! But by all means, if running around a fan forum kicking and whining makes a poster feel better then all I can say is WOW!!

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 03:15 PM
That's not it at all.

It's just the same rehashed bullshit over and over again.

People are hammering McDaniels without knowing the whole story.

The constant slicing and dicing of McD is just so old, criticism of the Broncos are constant ad nauseum.

Nonstop bickering between Broncos fans has been the case for too long.

This has gone back to 2006-

Jake's gotta go.

Cutler must start.

Plummer sucks.

Cutler starts.

I miss Plummer.

Shanahan fired?! NOOOOO!

McDaniels sucks!

McDaniels sucks II.

It's just tiring.

you forgot the big happy camper....mcD is great moment we all had about ...weeks 4-7...those where the days.:lol:

pnbronco
01-19-2010, 03:29 PM
Over and over and over and over and over and over and over....how much can one repeat themselves and whine??? Come up with opinions with solutions with what we have. McDaniels isn't going anywhere for at least another year, and Pees will probably be the DC. Find a way to complain and whine to the organization because we pretty much know where people stand here! But by all means, if running around a fan forum kicking and whining makes a poster feel better then all I can say is WOW!!

It's the over and over part that just wears me out. All of us have different experiences and maybe hear something on this station or that. That's what I want I want to share and have someone share with me.

I don't know how this is all going to work out. But I do know that change takes time and can be painful. Heck creating a plan to lose 20lbs has me looking at both those things and I don't like it.

frauschieze
01-19-2010, 03:44 PM
C'mon Frau... They took promotions. There's a difference. They didn't just make lateral moves.


Eventually, yeah. But originally, the Redskins wanted Turner to just be their RB coach. *shrugs*

A promotion also doesn't HAVE to be taken. Family considerations need to be weighed, the likely success of the team they're currently with, vs. the team they are interviewing with, the talent level they'll have available and the people they are going to be working with/for.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have left or it wasn't the best thing for them. But they were excited about what was happening in Denver, really saw potential for the team and liked working with McD, I really think they wouldn't be gone.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-19-2010, 03:46 PM
Just got done listening to Mike Evans on FM104.3the fan. He said that it TOTALLY blows his mind in regards to some people's reaction, not only to Nolan moving, but moreso, their criticism of Coach McD.

He said that so many fans were so used to what the Broncos were the last decade, THAT IS ALL THEY CAN SEE. He also said that ANY coach coming in here would CHANGE things

Shazam!
01-19-2010, 03:49 PM
it TOTALLY blows his mind in regards to some people's reaction, not only to Nolan moving, but moreso, their criticism of Coach McD.

Really?! You don't say...

Ravage!!!
01-19-2010, 03:49 PM
Hmmm.. I thought we criticized Shanahan for constantly hiring and then firing DCs. But if we do it with McDaniels, its unnecessary criticism? When the hiring of Nolan was regarded as his BEST move all last offseason?

Of course he deserves criticism for this.

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Just got done listening to Mike Evans on FM104.3the fan. He said that it TOTALLY blows his mind in regards to some people's reaction, not only to Nolan moving, but moreso, their criticism of Coach McD.

He said that so many fans were so used to what the Broncos were the last decade, THAT IS ALL THEY CAN SEE. He also said that ANY coach coming in here would CHANGE things

of course any coach would change things and I think most of us expected change, but not to this degree. Some of the change was very good ie Wilborn gone was a very happy day for me. Possible one of teh worst defensive players in Broncos history to me. I do remember how excited people were to see our offence with Cutler, Marshall ect under McDainels. I think we all saw the potiental for a very special offence with McDainels and the talent in place. The fact that talent is all but gone and now the coach who helped turn this defence is gone too is what is so frustrating.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-19-2010, 03:53 PM
of course any coach would change things and I think most of us expected change, but not to this degree. Some of the change was very good ie Wilborn gone was a very happy day for me. Possible one of teh worst defensive players in Broncos history to me. I do remember how excited people were to see our offence with Cutler, Marshall ect under McDainels. I think we all saw the potiental for a very special offence with McDainels and the talent in place. The fact that talent is all but gone and now the coach who helped turn this defence is gone too is what is so frustrating.

I don't remember a GREAT defense for the entire season

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 03:58 PM
I don't remember a GREAT defense for the entire season

Where did I say great? But the first 6 weeks of this season they were very good and winning games for an offence that couldn't get it down on a regular basis

Northman
01-19-2010, 04:13 PM
i think we tend to look at these situations with....shall we say "tunnelvision"
there are so many factors involved, could nolan have wanted out simply because he hopes to find a hc position? could mcdaniels have wanted control over the draft on both sides of the ball? did the simple fact that the defense (though greatly improved)wore down and or gave up as the year progressed?
or 1000 other possibilities.
the simple fact is ,its mcdaniels butt on the line and in todays nfl he only has another year or 2 to implement his philosphy and system.
if it fails then he will realize he needs to make changes to his way of running things.
if it succeeds we will all be laughing about the time we thought he was ruining the team.
but it will be on him either way and he has to make the decisions (if he even made this one which it has been reported both guys decided it was best to part ways).
there where plenty of people who did not like the nolan signing last year and there will be plenty who dont like our new dc.
that wont change the fact that we may well see a more compitent and complete defensive unit in the orange and blue next season !
or we might not......;)

I find it ironic that you used the term "tunnelvision" and then posted this post using that very terminology.

Northman
01-19-2010, 04:16 PM
wait a tick !
it is absolutely understandable that people who are good at coaching different styles or systems would move on to teams that use those systems....it happens every year.
should mcD have come in last year ....fired everybody and brought in all the available guru's at each position?
sorry folks it does'nt work that way.
just like with players you have to get who you can to improve .and test the rest to see if they can conform to the new scheme.
i dont agree with letting nolan walk...but thats what he did .
nowhere has it been said he was fired or it was mcd's decision
besides i dont give a crap if we have the best defense in the league for 4-6 weeks. we had that in 06'
our new dc will be the 5th in 5 years....big whoop !
i want to see people with a common plan.....a common goal.....from the f/o to hc to the waterboy !
there can be only one captain of a ship,or you have MUTINY !
and the good ship bronco did'nt get to its destination ....but it did'nt go backwards either.
so unless she starts listing heavely ill give him another season or 2 to get her to port !
i like all the possibilities the metaphor of the ship brings up.....coaches walking the plank,,players abandoning ship etc.....

Strange. I didnt see Rex Ryan do all those kind of changes and he is playing in the AFC Championship game. I guess he missed that memo.

CoachChaz
01-19-2010, 04:19 PM
Why is it impossible to fathom the idea that Nolan wanted out simply because he wanted to be in Miami more than Denver? Until we get details...we have to at least consider that. But I do understand it's easier to take the easy way out



Screw McDaniels!!! he sucks!!! Fire him NOW!!!

CoachChaz
01-19-2010, 04:20 PM
Strange. I didnt see Rex Ryan do all those kind of changes and he is playing in the AFC Championship game. I guess he missed that memo.

Just to play devil's advocate, I would go out on a limb and say Ryan had more to work with

MileHighCrew
01-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, I would go out on a limb and say Ryan had more to work with

The only problem I have with that statement is Rex didn't go in and trade the talent he had to work with to another team

gregbroncs
01-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Hmmm.. I thought we criticized Shanahan for constantly hiring and then firing DCs. But if we do it with McDaniels, its unnecessary criticism? When the hiring of Nolan was regarded as his BEST move all last offseason?

Of course he deserves criticism for this.
One coordinator is different than one a year like Shanahan.

Northman
01-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, I would go out on a limb and say Ryan had more to work with


Some, but he's in a tougher division and working with a rookie QB.

CoachChaz
01-19-2010, 04:29 PM
The only problem I have with that statement is Rex didn't go in and trade the talent he had to work with to another team

McD traded one player of "talent" and how well did that player work out with his new team? It's easy to say he didnt have anything to work with, but there were ALOT of people thinking they were a guaranteed playoff team at the time of the trade.


Some, but he's in a tougher division and working with a rookie QB.

Don't know that I buy into "some". The Jets are much better on both lines, LB's and RB. The DB's are at least as good, the kicking is better.

Denver has a slight edge at QB and much better WR's, but that's about it. Put the Jets line and front 7 in Denver and we're a playoff team. Guaranteed.

pnbronco
01-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Eventually, yeah. But originally, the Redskins wanted Turner to just be their RB coach. *shrugs*

A promotion also doesn't HAVE to be taken. Family considerations need to be weighed, the likely success of the team they're currently with, vs. the team they are interviewing with, the talent level they'll have available and the people they are going to be working with/for.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have left or it wasn't the best thing for them. But they were excited about what was happening in Denver, really saw potential for the team and liked working with McD, I really think they wouldn't be gone.

Sorry Frau, I think you are really special, but I respectfully disagree with you here. The Redskins wanted Turner so they created a position for him with a raise. The last time I talked to Coach Turner his mom was still in Chicago, so maybe that's a part of his family consideration.

Coach Dennison and Kubes go way...way back. Plus he's getting a title promotion and a raise. When Kubes left Denver he had 2 sons going to school in Fort Collins and still left to be a head coach. He also took a bunch of staff with him to Houston that were good men. It's the business side of football and these men are doing what is best for their families.

There was a player for the Avs by the name of Lappy, oh man did all the fans who knew him just loved him. The last time I saw him I cried and felt like a baby but I knew I was going to miss him so much. He pretty much said that if he got a longer contract with a different team he would have to leave. I looked him in the eye and said I understand you are just taking care of your family.

pnbronco
01-19-2010, 04:39 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, I would go out on a limb and say Ryan had more to work with

Coach didn't the Jets have the #1 D this year?

The Glue Factory
01-19-2010, 05:08 PM
The only problem I have with that statement is Rex didn't go in and trade the talent he had to work with to another team

Then again Rex has a ROOKIE for QB that didn't have an attitude problem with the change in coaching. The two situations cannot be compared at any level beyond a new HC and a high draft QB.

Northman
01-19-2010, 05:11 PM
Then again Rex has a ROOKIE for QB that didn't have an attitude problem with the change in coaching. The two situations cannot be compared at any level beyond a new HC and a high draft QB.


Although i definitely dont absolve Jay for his part in that fiasco he also had 2 plus years of experience in which i believe should of been more leadership and maturity from said player. But, McD not being upfront about it initially rocked the boat when it really didnt need to be rocked. Sounds to me not only was McD not prepared for the draft but he didnt do his homework on the players that were already in the stable. He could of avoided a lot of things it sounds like.

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 05:15 PM
the jets also played their final 2 games against back ups....i know it doesnt matter how you get there as long as you get there....blah blah....but still can anyone here really say they thought the jets would make it to the playoffs if they had played indy's starters ?
i dont think so...even their coach said they were toast !

Northman
01-19-2010, 05:25 PM
the jets also played their final 2 games against back ups....i know it doesnt matter how you get there as long as you get there....blah blah....but still can anyone here really say they thought the jets would make it to the playoffs if they had played indy's starters ?
i dont think so...even their coach said they were toast !

Agreed. Having two teams lay down for you helps a lot. However, since then they've taken no prisoners. So even though they were granted a blessing with the teams they played down the stretch and the chokejob by Denver they have taken advantage of that opportunity and run with it. Sure wish Denver could of done that.

Ravage!!!
01-19-2010, 05:50 PM
Agreed. Having two teams lay down for you helps a lot. However, since then they've taken no prisoners. So even though they were granted a blessing with the teams they played down the stretch and the chokejob by Denver they have taken advantage of that opportunity and run with it. Sure wish Denver could of done that.

Well.. we DID play the Chiefs in the last game... thats almost like playing most team's backups.

Ziggy
01-19-2010, 05:52 PM
The Jets had far more talent than the Broncos at the end of last season. The Jets have FAR SUPERIOR talent on both the offensive and defensive lines. That alone makes the comparisons a moot point.

BroncoAV06
01-19-2010, 05:52 PM
I belive that there is more of a reaction due to the fact that we just had two other coaches move on. It would just be nice to see some sort of cohesion within the staff but the coaches need to be on the same page.

There is no doubt in my mind that McD has some power issues. He is trying to build a winner. The problem I see and what I think a lot of people are trying to get across as Crew mentioned is it looks like a whole heck of a lot more subtraction then addition, Marshall rift, Scheff, losing players and just adding to the needs list because people can't pull their heads out of their asses and get on the same page.

spikerman
01-19-2010, 06:15 PM
... He was great for six weeks but so was the rest of the team. He's gone, get the **** over it already, he's gone.
The offense was definitely not great that first six weeks (or at any part) of the season. Also, remember all of the special teams problems at the beginning of the year? That 6-0 start was due in VERY large part to the play of the defense. Granted, they weren't that talented, but doesn't that say even more about the job Mike Nolan did?

spikerman
01-19-2010, 06:16 PM
Over and over and over and over and over and over and over....how much can one repeat themselves and whine??? Come up with opinions with solutions with what we have. McDaniels isn't going anywhere for at least another year, and Pees will probably be the DC. Find a way to complain and whine to the organization because we pretty much know where people stand here! But by all means, if running around a fan forum kicking and whining makes a poster feel better then all I can say is WOW!!In all honesty, posting solutions on a message board won't do any good either.

JDL
01-19-2010, 07:03 PM
The divide comes more from the fact that some fans are not ok with mediocrity and don't always ballwash every move the organization makes. Some people have this blind faith that the people running things are always right and know more than us and so we should shut up take it and keep forking over dollars. :confused:

Matt Millen knows more about football than any single person here, I assure you... doesn't mean it wasn't obvious that he was a failure and was not good at his job.

Al Davis knows more about football than 90% of the league, but if you can't see he has lost touch with the current state of the league and has been too controlling you are blind.


Sorry, it is a business - you and I are consumers/investors and it is the company's job to instill confidence in the consumer/investor. Sometimes, perception is far more important to success than actual knowledge. This isn't some fandom contest to see who can suffer the most incompetence ... that's already been won by the few remaining Lions fans.

The organization has the appearance of a 3-ring circus which screams a total lack of proper respect and leadership. The team is in complete disarray, but there are some fans who would denounce ANYONE who says ANYTHING even remotely critical of the organization. The Denver Broncos are not beyond reproach and it is (particularly in our society as free and democratic and capitalist) our right to ask why our dollars are going to support this sideshow. It is fair to have different opinions as to the actual source of the disarray, but some people would prefer no opinions are shared and no discourse over the problems occurred. That's really silly.

There certainly those that will forever have a negative view of everything and those that just absurdly have the organization ball sack planted square in mouth. It's THOSE two extremes that are ruining every single message board on the internet.

These problems are not black and white, but McDaniels supporters are going to have to accept that first and foremost he is responsible for the team. He does not seem to have complete control of the team, some people think he will never gain complete control, but it is a VERY valid question to wonder what exactly is going on and why there is so much drama from EVERY single direction.

This is not about a few bad seeds. There was quite clearly a power struggle within the organization to fill the vacuum of Shanahan power. Shanahan earned that level of power over almost two decades of work with the Broncos (as an assistant and HC) along with 2 Super Bowl Championships. It was time for him to move on, but that power vacuum has left a struggle that forced the Goodmans out and left a VERY young Head Coach in charge of both the GM position and HC position and with the chaos that constantly surrounds this team, you have to wonder if it was too much too soon. But to simply ignore this is absurd, why even post on the internet, why do you want to even discuss ANYTHING if you really aren't open to discussing in the first place. If all you want to do is blindly support the team no matter what, go sign up so you get the press releases, read them, be happy no matter what, enjoy the sunshine being blown up your @ss and really quite frankly SHUT UP - equally, if you aren't rooting for the team, just want some place to b3$%^ about EVERYTHING... well, what point is there to you posting... you hate everything, support nothing, nobody cares... that isn't being objective.

Right now all there is, is a pissing match between these two extremes where, when anyone posts something positive or critical they are painted with either brush and really in so many words just told go away. Problem is that this is the substance of this or any forum.. as most of those people are rather rational and capable of discussing different points of view. This is all so very simple. If someone has a critical opinion and you disagree - hey discuss it - if you don't think he would even listen to a different point of view - ignore.

When times are hard there is going to be more critical discussion, so that rainbow brights of the crowd are more vocal shouting it all down, hijacking threads with statements like 'how long until someone comes in and says it is a McD's fault' essentially turning yet ANOTHER thread into a pissing match between these extremes. Let go of it already.

I'm no polly sunshine and don't mean to come off so harsh, but this is really ridiculous. All the positive only threads (while they may be well-intentioned are essentially a slap at others on the forum) and it only creates more divisiveness. You don't create unity by doing divisive/segregating things. You don't get your critical points across by being an @hole (I can certainly come off that way I'm sure, but mainly when people try and censor other people's opinions.) It is a real problem here and elsewhere on the net. Being critical is not by its nature being negative. It is an attempt to understand the issues and what is required to fix them. We are not infants here, too stupid to understand things, many here are high end professionals, run large businesses, have a brain if you will and aren't going to just simply shut it off and blindly support every move. You will be wrong, I will be wrong, McDaniels will be wrong, Bowlen will be wrong - it happens to EVERYONE.

The question is whether the organization is functioning properly and it clearly is not, doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that? The personnel and organization have issues, why not discuss them? Is all I think most people would ask. Approach it with an open mind. McDaniels is clearly not at fault for everything, but he is ultimately responsible and I think it is certainly reasonable to start with him and ask the questions. I personally think the way for him to be successful is to bring in a strong GM, I think it is too much for him to handle at this point, it was too much for an established guy like Shanahan to handle. Xanders really is not a football guy and is more concerned with contracts and such. I think perhaps the first place to start is to look at the organizational structure and what can be done to stabilize the franchise... getting rid of a coach after 1 season is not likely to solve things and make them better anytime soon, but clearly there were a lot of mistakes made, that's ok in year one, but if you make those in year two, you can't continue coaching... not unless you want things to devolve into a situation like Detroit had where they continually tried to allow Millen to grow into his role. You can only afford so many mistakes, but right now it just seems reasonable to get some help so these things stabilize and hopefully McDaniels the coach can develop. You simply can't wait 4-5years in the NFL, as a business the consumers won't stand for it and you will lose billions. As fans, that's just hard to stomach. Maybe that's not fair, but that is how it is in today's NFL. Success Now.

T.K.O.
01-19-2010, 08:54 PM
total dissarray ? really ?
how many teams will change coaches and players this year ?when a team does very well they lose key players and staff every year when they do poorly the same thing happens. so why is it that a couple coaches and possibly players go down the road and the broncos are in ruins and its all one mans fault?
in case you had'nt noticed the broncos have been less than spectacular for a decade now,so using your logic there shouldnt be any fans left to be bothered by recent events anyway:salute: