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Lonestar
01-16-2010, 04:10 AM
Analysis: Broncos take hard look at run defense, offseason conditioning and practice policies

By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
POSTED: 01/16/2010 01:00:00 AM MST


When a team sits on the outside of the playoffs looking in, as the Broncos are for the fourth consecutive season, the search for answers routinely becomes Job 1.

This is especially true for an organization that had once been fond of openly discussing the pursuit of not only playoff spots but the pursuit of championships. It wasn't enough to simply get in; you had to be able to do something once you got there.

And when the world last heard from Broncos owner Pat Bowlen, he said he was happy with the team's new direction under Josh McDaniels. Some of that, in the wake of another late-season collapse and an 8-8 finish that wouldn't have made Bowlen all that happy in previous years, may simply be an indication of just how far Bowlen's relationship with Mike Shanahan had deteriorated in their final years together.

But Bowlen was fond of McDaniels when he chose to hire him, and one season doesn't change that.

For his part, McDaniels talked of finding the "common denominators" in the late-season fades, only one of which he has been a part of.

What McDaniels actually believes those common denominators are will be clear when the team begins to take action in free agency and the draft in the coming months.

But there are a few that everyone at Dove Valley should already know.

Run defense. Hasn't mattered what scheme, fronts or personnel the team has played, they have been miserable against the run for much of the last four seasons, having finished 26th in the league this season, 27th in '08, 30th in '07 and 12th in '06.

Even in these pass-happy times, a team cannot survive over the long haul like that.

The offseason program. The most-asked question about the Broncos from folks around the league as they limp through December after December is "What are those guys doing in the offseason?"

Whether it's too hard, too much work or the wrong kind, whatever, the Broncos likely have to look at the structure of their offseason program just to make sure they are benefiting from it as much as they can.

The Broncos haven't had a winning record in December since 2005, also the last time they made the playoffs.

Practice. The Broncos were in pads in training camp plenty, and a lot of teams take that route. Football is a physical game, after all, and it's hard to win if you can't outmuscle people from time to time. But they also were in pads during the season, especially in December, more than almost every other team in the league.

Some players privately said they didn't have much left, and scouts around the league said the Broncos looked tired down the stretch, especially up front on both sides of the ball.

The marquee spots. Most personnel executives and general managers, when asked about the most important positions in team building, will select quarterback, left tackle and edge pass rusher before the list is four players long. The Broncos have the left tackle in Ryan Clady and the edge rusher in Elvis Dumervil — if they can lock up the restricted free agent long term.

But at quarterback, they have had just two Pro Bowl seasons since the start of the 1999 season — Brian Griese in 2000 and Jay Cutler in 2008. And neither player won a playoff game for the Broncos in his tenure behind center.

So, the Broncos have to decide how far into the future they are going to go with Kyle Orton and what the plan is if Orton's future doesn't project beyond the 2010 season.

Jeff Legwold: 303-954-2359 or jlegwold@denverpost.com



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14202369#ixzz0clStBfzV

Nomad
01-16-2010, 11:05 AM
BRONCOS need to go to the Chargers conditioning program then!!:coffee: Maybe they're just fatigued from all the drama this team has gone through since the Plummer/Cutler saga and up till now!!

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 11:23 AM
To me, the team looked more desperate and confused than they did tired the last few games.

The defense was overplaying the run and trying too hard just to make plays and getting out of position. They got frustrated and even guys like Dawkins and Champ were getting exposed.

People talk about this defense being poor against the run, but only the second KC and Oakland game did we really get bullied.

Pitt's Mendenhall had a great game against us but it really didn't start until the second half when the offense couldn't convert a third down and the defense was worn out from being on the field for 45 minutes.

Honestly, I'd be happy to field the same defense as last year again this year. They created turnovers and made more good plays than bad ones. That's all you can really ask. They had a ton of redzone stands and forced a lot of FGs when the other team should've scored TDs.

If we can get our offense on track and actually give the defense a lead to play with every once in awhile I think we'll do fine. When we're always playing from behind because the offense has gone six straight drives with 3 and out, it really makes it tough on the defense.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 11:27 AM
BRONCOS need to go to the Chargers conditioning program then!!:coffee: Maybe they're just fatigued from all the drama this team has gone through since the Plummer/Cutler saga and up till now!!

It's amazing what momentum can do isn't it? We had it before the bye week and completely lost it. They found it and haven't lost since.

I've got this feeling that had there not been a bye week this year, we'd have done better and made the playoffs. the bye week was our kryptonite because it gave the players a chance to take a breather and look back at what they'd accomplished. You never want to look back. As soon as you stop looking forward, you're finished. That's what happened to this team.

Ravage!!!
01-16-2010, 11:31 AM
We hear this every year, and people continue to blame the pre-season or TC workouts. We heard this last offseason how "our new approach is really goingto make a difference. No more fading down the stretch like with SHanahan. No more getting blown out by division rivals at home late in the season....."

We have a disadvantage, that is an advantage early in the year. We work out in the thin air of Colorado. WHen you have time to work on conditioning, running, and sprints... then its an advantage. Later in the year, as the season wears on and we can't commit time to running, sprinting, and conditioning... that thin air during practices is a disadvantage.

If you guys run for a month/two... and get in shape and stop running for the next 3 months. Are you in as good of shape 3 months down the road as you were at the beginning? No. Same with lifting weights. EVERY team has the same problem. But Denver with the thin air, provides a SLIGHT disadvantage to the Bronco players (not saying its a big disadvantage, and not making excuses with the air). But every team is not as healthy, and aren't in as good of shape as they are coming out of conditioning programs.

Practices just don't provide enough time to commit to it. Players are sore, hurt, and need as much healing time as possible between games.

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 04:22 PM
funny that Olympic athletes train at the COS high attitude site to help to build extra endurance .

Yet DEN players should be at a disadvantage because they live and train here.

Yep that make way to much sense.

muse
01-16-2010, 06:51 PM
But at quarterback, they have had just two Pro Bowl seasons since the start of the 1999 season — Brian Griese in 2000 and Jay Cutler in 2008. And neither player won a playoff game for the Broncos in his tenure behind center.



Huh, so has Jake Plummer been officially erased from Broncos history or something? ;)

Dean
01-16-2010, 08:15 PM
funny that Olympic athletes train at the COS high attitude site to help to build extra endurance .

Yet DEN players should be at a disadvantage because they live and train here.

Yep that make way to much sense.

However, when Olympic athletes have even minor injuries, they aren't asked to maintain the same practices as the healthy athletes. Couple that with 300 pound athletes in practice trying to block, tackle, stack, and shed you and it is far less than optimal conditions for complete healing to occur. There has to be some time built in to heal.

Ziggy
01-16-2010, 09:44 PM
I'd be willing to bet that the players don't get a full week off during the bye week next season. I think some of them never came back off of vacation.

gobroncsnv
01-17-2010, 08:50 AM
Huh, so has Jake Plummer been officially erased from Broncos history or something? ;)

Well, the original post to which you responded talked of Pro-Bowl qb's... Griese and Cutler, neither of which won a playoff game... then again, neither of which played in one. Griese was hurt and out when we played the Ravens, and Cutler didn't get us to the playoffs.

Lonestar
01-17-2010, 12:48 PM
Considering thein season practice equates to about 6 hours total during the week. With the rest of the week being devoted to meetings, film study, treatment and installing the game plan. Considering that mikes club med practices over the years produced the same results, tells me it must be the water at Dove valley.

Certainly makes as much sense as thin air.

Perhaps it is time to bring in bottled water and compressed air from SAN. :D.


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Traveler
01-17-2010, 01:54 PM
I still believe that Bowlen and McD should re-evaluate Tuten's off-season conditioning program.

Broncolingus
01-17-2010, 02:18 PM
I honestly don't know what the mystery is behind Denver's late season 'fades' over the past many years...

Denver Native (Carol)
01-17-2010, 02:20 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13023755

They run before practice and they run after.

They skip and they stretch. They pop pads and they stretch. They jog and they run. They run and they run some more.

"We're running a ton more this year," said Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler. "The good thing is it's getting easier each day."

Watch the Broncos warm up early in their practices at training camp, and huff through their sprints at the end, and it becomes obvious a new strength and conditioning coordinator is among the team's many changes this season.

The new conditioning coach is Rich Tuten.

All right, so Tuten is technically in his 15th season with the Broncos. He may as well be starting over, though.

"We're doing things I've always wanted to do," Tuten said. "It's called dynamic active stretching. It's stretching while moving. This year I was asked what we should do, and we're doing what I wanted to do. This is the most physical we've been in 15 years. I think it's really going to help us. I love it. This is football."

A case can be made that it wasn't a sieve defense, red-zone interceptions or poor special teams that doomed the Broncos to the worst collapse in NFL history last year.

It was the groin tear.

The Broncos lost Scheffler, starting tailback Selvin Young, star cornerback Champ Bailey and fullback-linebacker Spencer Larsen for extended periods last season because of ripped groins.

Scheffler's replacement, Nate Jackson, suffered a season-ending hamstring tear, as did Peyton Hillis, an emerging star tailback.

"I noticed during the OTAs (organized team activities) and camp, we haven't had the pulls that we've had in the past," Bailey said.

Tuten said for all the added running and stretching he is barking the players through this summer, nothing will condition them more than new coach Josh McDaniels' preference to practice in pads.

In the 14 previous seasons under Mike Shanahan, McDaniels' predecessor, the Broncos almost always practiced in shorts, helmets and the inner lining of shoulder pads. Shanahan believed in high-tempo, precision workouts without battering bodies.

His teams developed a pattern of starting fast, but wilting late.

McDaniels' professional coaching background is rooted in the NFL's more physical eastern region, where the general philosophies usually originate with this notion: Football is a contact sport.

"The groin and hamstring issues will take care of itself because camp is a lot more physical," Tuten said. "We're in full pads, so they're used to contact more. So when you get into the game, it's not something they haven't done that week.

"It's like if you only run or worked out once a week, you're going to be sore and beat up after that workout. But if you work out all week, one day is not going to affect you as much."

Not everything about the Broncos' new conditioning routine is painful to witness. When 300-pound-somethings high step for 20 yards, there are occasional snickers and no reminders of the Carnegie-Philharmonic Ballet.

The most striking differences, though, are padded pants during practice and wind sprints following, even when there's two workouts a day.

"Some of those older guys, I think, were used to a certain routine and regiment during camp and they're adjusting to getting back to how it was in high school and college and how they grew up playing football," Tuten said.

"It becomes a mental thing too," said Broncos offensive tackle Ryan Harris. "Run a few laps, run a few sprints and you tell yourself: 'You can always do more.' "

A pertinent mind-set considering recent history. It seems the Broncos not only developed a penchant for weakening in December, they were pummeled in the fourth quarter — from 2006-08, they were outscored by a combined 104 points (355-251).

As the only franchise in a 32-team league that trains at altitude, performing poorly late in the race defies logic, while also partially explaining the Broncos' 13-12 home record since playing in the 2005 AFC championship game.

"It's all about the fourth quarter and the advantage of playing at altitude," offensive tackle Tyler Polumbus said of the Broncos' new conditioning routine. "It's different. Coaches are telling us, 'Put it in the bank.' Because it's amazing how many games are won in the fourth quarter."

Nomad
01-17-2010, 02:20 PM
I honestly don't know what the mystery is behind Denver's late season 'fades' over the past many years...

Aliens!!:look::D

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 03:17 PM
I just don't think it has anything to do with physical conditioning or player toughness. We have hit the skids late in the year because for years we've been out coached late in the year.

Our previous coach was a mastermind who was too proud and too damned stubborn to change his game plan, the same one that the league had seen all year on offense and defense, and other teams just made the adjustments to account for it.

Our new coach is just as stubborn, just as arrogant, and just as confident is his system. This is why it always seems that the other team's defense knows what the play is before we run it. This is why the other team's offense always seems to know where to run it, when to run it, or where to throw it.

We are the Denver Broncos, and we don't make adjustments. That is why we've failed to reach the playoffs for 4 straight years.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-17-2010, 03:20 PM
Our new coach is just as stubborn, just as arrogant, and just as confident is his system. This is why it always seems that the other team's defense knows what the play is before we run it. This is why the other team's offense always seems to know where to run it, when to run it, or where to throw it.

We are the Denver Broncos, and we don't make adjustments. That is why we've failed to reach the playoffs for 4 straight years.

I remember during the 6 game winning streak, how commentators, the press, posts during the gameday thread did nothing but praise Coach McD, Coach Nolan, for making major adjustments at halftime.

muse
01-17-2010, 07:58 PM
Well, the original post to which you responded talked of Pro-Bowl qb's... Griese and Cutler, neither of which won a playoff game... then again, neither of which played in one. Griese was hurt and out when we played the Ravens, and Cutler didn't get us to the playoffs.

Yep, Jake was a Pro Bowl QB in 2005.

NightTrainLayne
01-17-2010, 08:41 PM
It's not the coaching. We've just been plain out-physicalled in the last half of the season for several seasons now.

It's because for years Shanny built this team around smallish lines that simply wear down in the latter half of the season.

We've had pretty good coaching. . .that's why we keep getting off to these fast starts before the players get worn down. But as the season goes on, they wear down and simply can't execute well enough anymore.

Thankfully, I think that we'll be correcting that problem over the next couple of off-seasons.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 09:48 PM
I remember during the 6 game winning streak, how commentators, the press, posts during the gameday thread did nothing but praise Coach McD, Coach Nolan, for making major adjustments at halftime.

Then during the second half of the year, we made none. I remember everyone who's anyone in the football world calling out our vanilla offense. "How many bubble screens and runs up the middle can we call in one game until we realize they aren't working"? How many times did we hear that?

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 09:56 PM
It's not the coaching. We've just been plain out-physicalled in the last half of the season for several seasons now.

It's because for years Shanny built this team around smallish lines that simply wear down in the latter half of the season.

We've had pretty good coaching. . .that's why we keep getting off to these fast starts before the players get worn down. But as the season goes on, they wear down and simply can't execute well enough anymore.

Thankfully, I think that we'll be correcting that problem over the next couple of off-seasons.

So you think that we marched into KC this year and beat the shit out of them only to be "out-physicalled" by the same squad 4 weeks later at home? No, they just watched tape and saw what we did the first game. They saw what worked on their end and what didn't. They had an answer for our blitzes (run Jamal Charles) and for our dink and dunk offense (namely, have D Johnson spy Orton and jump his underneath routes which resulted in 2 pick sixes).

Baltimore and Pittsburgh "out-physicalled" us after the bye week when we had time to rest? No, they just watched tape and saw what we sucked at and exploited it. They made our offense a non-factor. Our team was the MOST PREDICTABLE in the league after the bye week. We were trying the same crap over and over even when it wasn't working.

Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? I can't believe that we have the softest, weakest, girliest bunch of players in the NFL and that they are just are too weak and tired by the end of every season to play well. It was coaching and preparation, plain and simple.

Lonestar
01-17-2010, 11:07 PM
So you think that we marched into KC this year and beat the shit out of them only to be "out-physicalled" by the same squad 4 weeks later at home? No, they just watched tape and saw what we did the first game. They saw what worked on their end and what didn't. They had an answer for our blitzes (run Jamal Charles) and for our dink and dunk offense (namely, have D Johnson spy Orton and jump his underneath routes which resulted in 2 pick sixes).

Baltimore and Pittsburgh "out-physicalled" us after the bye week when we had time to rest? No, they just watched tape and saw what we sucked at and exploited it. They made our offense a non-factor. Our team was the MOST PREDICTABLE in the league after the bye week. We were trying the same crap over and over even when it wasn't working.

Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? I can't believe that we have the softest, weakest, girliest bunch of players in the NFL and that they are just are too weak and tired by the end of every season to play well. It was coaching and preparation, plain and simple.

we were physically beat up in many of those games.that is coaching for not having big enoght LOS players but then that has been for years ..

only so far you can get in one year /offseason.

had Josh tired to replace all of last years OLINE with heaier players there woud have been a revolt.

now we have proof positive that as good as our OLINE used to be bewteen teh 20's, we now know they were only good between teh 20's..

NightTrainLayne
01-18-2010, 12:27 AM
So you think that we marched into KC this year and beat the shit out of them only to be "out-physicalled" by the same squad 4 weeks later at home? No, they just watched tape and saw what we did the first game. They saw what worked on their end and what didn't. They had an answer for our blitzes (run Jamal Charles) and for our dink and dunk offense (namely, have D Johnson spy Orton and jump his underneath routes which resulted in 2 pick sixes).

Baltimore and Pittsburgh "out-physicalled" us after the bye week when we had time to rest? No, they just watched tape and saw what we sucked at and exploited it. They made our offense a non-factor. Our team was the MOST PREDICTABLE in the league after the bye week. We were trying the same crap over and over even when it wasn't working.

Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? I can't believe that we have the softest, weakest, girliest bunch of players in the NFL and that they are just are too weak and tired by the end of every season to play well. It was coaching and preparation, plain and simple.

So. . .your analysis is that we were a more physical force than those other teams? Just got out "x'd and o'd"?

That doesn't jibe with the games I saw.

Yes, Baltimore pushed us around after the bye. .. because they figured out how our coaching staff was hiding our weaknesses. There's only so much magic that a coaching staff can work before some point where the players simply have to be able to beat the guy in front of them.

After the bye, we didn't do much beating the guys in front of our players, no matter where the coaches put us. We looked great in KC after a couple of turnovers got us up on them, but up until around half-time it was pretty much a dead heat if my memory serves me correctly. In the second game we were the team that turned it over and got behind, and once we did we got our asses kicked up and down the field.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-18-2010, 08:27 AM
So. . .your analysis is that we were a more physical force than those other teams? Just got out "x'd and o'd"?

In the second game we were the team that turned it over and got behind, and once we did we got our asses kicked up and down the field.

Sounds like a failure to adjust to me. When we started getting beat by Charles running, did we compensate? Did we change our front and target the run or did we just keep running the same cover 2 scheme over and over and allowing Charles to pick up 7-15 yards a pop? The guy was doing it all game, not just in the first half. That's not physicality. If it was just the D-line being manhandled, then Charles would've had a 5 YPC average with most of the tackles coming from the LBs. Instead, the secondary was making the majority of the tackles 10 yds downfield because the LBs were out of position. That's coaching and defensive adjustments.

You just don't give up 250+ yds rushing due to being out-physicalled. If you did, then you just fielded a high school team against a pro team. It happens so rearely in this league becaue in order for it to happen, you have to pretty much have a complete break down in your scheme.

EastCoastBronco
01-18-2010, 09:15 AM
The loss of Ryan Harris for the season this year has been so underrated it's not even funny. Our offence pretty much took a nosedive the minute he got hurt and never really recovered.

Dirk
01-18-2010, 09:50 AM
The loss of Ryan Harris for the season this year has been so underrated it's not even funny. Our offence pretty much took a nosedive the minute he got hurt and never really recovered.

It was quite noticable that his absence was a killer. Get bigger guys on the both sides of the lines!!

Public Service Announcement: "Just say no to smaller linemen!"

HORSEPOWER 56
01-18-2010, 12:59 PM
It was quite noticable that his absence was a killer. Get bigger guys on the both sides of the lines!!

Public Service Announcement: "Just say no to smaller linemen!"

Just a quick thought. Bigger doesn't always equal better. Philly has had one of the biggest O-lines in football for the past two decades and they still can't run the ball with any consistency (especially short yardage) and for the most part are even worse at pass protection than we are.

Pittsburgh this year also had one of the biggest O-lines and Big Ben was running for his life most of the time. Scheme plays so much a factor into the whole line play discussion. The bigger guys are, typically the slower they are. That's Philly's problem, other teams' D-linemen just run by or around them. Their guards are so big, fat, and slow that they can't get to the second level, either. If you don't believe me, look at Philly's short yardage %. It's one of the worst in the league (just like ours).

Dirk
01-18-2010, 01:02 PM
Ok...new Public Service Announcement:

" Just say yes to bigger, stronger and more talented lineman! "

:D

Lonestar
01-18-2010, 02:05 PM
No one is advocating fat and sloppy players on either side of the LOS. But less than 330 at NT just means the guy acoross the LOS from them rarely needs to get double team help.

Conversly a 305 OG is going get beat 90% of the time by that 330+ NT/DT. And going to be in the pocket wreaking havoc.


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