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View Full Version : How do you feel about the new regime?



KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 02:25 PM
You feel our future is:

A: We will be a super bowl contender under this new regime.

B: Very Strong, it only gets better from here and we're going to be a playoff team for years to come

C: We'll see, I just hope we don't tank!

D: I don't believe in this new regime at all.

F: We're ******.


I just want to know where people are at and how they feel. I for one started out very skeptical during the offseason but didn't voice this to anyone and took a 'wait and see' attitude. Then was enthused just to see some Broncos football in Preseason, then was sky high, then was still pretty happy.

At this point I still love McD and his philosophy, but think we still have a long way to go. I dunno, it's hard to decide after just one year so I want to know what you all think of our future with the new regime.

Zweems56
01-15-2010, 02:46 PM
Poll fail?

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 03:00 PM
Poll fail?

Thread fail I'll accept, but I wouldn't really call it a poll fail because it's not a poll.

Actually I don't think I even know how to make a poll otherwise I probably would have with this thread, granting people the comfort of anonymity.

Grover
01-15-2010, 03:01 PM
I think I'd grade out this regime at the C level right now. There's been some positives, and a few times where McDaniel's has stepped on his weenie.

He's a young guy - perhaps too young. He'll learn, perhaps quickly enough, perhaps not. I don't have a crystal ball.

I will say that who he chooses for Offensive Line Coach and Running Backs coach and who we draft this year will go a long ways towards us all getting a better idea if this regime has a bright future. With a year under his belt, this should be the offseason that we turn things in the right direction.

If we don't, then McDaniels has FAIL written all over him. Two years should be enough to turn around a fairly decent team that he inherited.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 03:02 PM
I think I'd grade out this regime at the C level right now. There's been some positives, and a few times where McDaniel's has stepped on his weenie.

He's a young guy - perhaps too young. He'll learn, perhaps quickly enough, perhaps not. I don't have a crystal ball.

I will say that who he chooses for Offensive Line Coach and Running Backs coach and who we draft this year will go a long ways towards us all getting a better idea if this regime has a bright future. With a year under his belt, this should be the offseason that we turn things in the right direction.

If we don't, then McDaniels has FAIL written all over him. Two years should be enough to turn around a fairly decent team that he inherited.


Very valid points indeed, and I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-15-2010, 03:42 PM
My only comment is that besides everything being new to Coach McD, he faced other circumstances that many established coaches have never had to face. I am willing to give him time - and hopefully this coming season will be without negative player circumstances, where his full concentration can be on the job at hand, and also be on what he was hired to do.

Northman
01-15-2010, 04:33 PM
I think I'd grade out this regime at the C level right now. There's been some positives, and a few times where McDaniel's has stepped on his weenie.

He's a young guy - perhaps too young. He'll learn, perhaps quickly enough, perhaps not. I don't have a crystal ball.

I will say that who he chooses for Offensive Line Coach and Running Backs coach and who we draft this year will go a long ways towards us all getting a better idea if this regime has a bright future. With a year under his belt, this should be the offseason that we turn things in the right direction.

If we don't, then McDaniels has FAIL written all over him. Two years should be enough to turn around a fairly decent team that he inherited.


Yep. Great post.

dogfish
01-15-2010, 04:35 PM
How do you feel about the new regime?


festive?

Nomad
01-15-2010, 04:54 PM
I think I'd grade out this regime at the C level right now. There's been some positives, and a few times where McDaniel's has stepped on his weenie.

He's a young guy - perhaps too young. He'll learn, perhaps quickly enough, perhaps not. I don't have a crystal ball.

I will say that who he chooses for Offensive Line Coach and Running Backs coach and who we draft this year will go a long ways towards us all getting a better idea if this regime has a bright future. With a year under his belt, this should be the offseason that we turn things in the right direction.

If we don't, then McDaniels has FAIL written all over him. Two years should be enough to turn around a fairly decent team that he inherited.

Good post!! Being able to finish strong the second half of the season would be a giant step in the right direction!!

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 04:58 PM
You feel our future is:

A: We will be a super bowl contender under this new regime.

B: Very Strong, it only gets better from here and we're going to be a playoff team for years to come

C: We'll see, I just hope we don't tank!

D: I don't believe in this new regime at all.

F: We're ******.


I just want to know where people are at and how they feel. I for one started out very skeptical during the offseason but didn't voice this to anyone and took a 'wait and see' attitude. Then was enthused just to see some Broncos football in Preseason, then was sky high, then was still pretty happy.

At this point I still love McD and his philosophy, but think we still have a long way to go. I dunno, it's hard to decide after just one year so I want to know what you all think of our future with the new regime.

make this a poll those are very valid questions. but make it so folks can see how you voted.

silkamilkamonico
01-15-2010, 06:01 PM
B, in time, A.

The only thing's I've disagreed with are some of the immature decisions he's gone about things.

You can argue his immaturity, but you can't deny the FACT that this guy can coach.

I only hope he makes it in Denver, otherwise it's just a stepping stone for his next job which will be lucky to have him, and at that point Denver will be looking for another coach, yest another rebuilding mode, and almost certain and utter failure for years to come.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 06:57 PM
make this a poll those are very valid questions. but make it so folks can see how you voted.

How do I make it a poll?

WARHORSE
01-15-2010, 07:13 PM
Who you gonna bring in as a coach?


His intelligence is there. The work ethic is there. The social skills need work, but its moreso cause hes so young, so accomplished, and so driven that he almost has to be in order to survive the criticism.

One thing you GOTTA love...........HE WANTS TO WIN IN THE WORST KINDA WAY!

Thats the mentality you want in your players, and thats the mentality you want in your coaches.


Im happy with him at this point. If he cant turn the corner, then he'll have to do some more learning elsewhere.

No one wants McDaniels to succeed more than me.

Cause that means the B R O N C O S are kickin teeth!:salute:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 07:17 PM
Who you gonna bring in as a coach?


His intelligence is there. The work ethic is there. The social skills need work, but its moreso cause hes so young, so accomplished, and so driven that he almost has to be in order to survive the criticism.

One thing you GOTTA love...........HE WANTS TO WIN IN THE WORST KINDA WAY!

Thats the mentality you want in your players, and thats the mentality you want in your coaches.


Im happy with him at this point. If he cant turn the corner, then he'll have to do some more learning elsewhere.

No one wants McDaniels to succeed more than me.

Cause that means the B R O N C O S are kickin teeth!:salute:


I never expected a forum post to get me so ******* hyped up.


YEAAAAAAHHHHHHH BRONCOSSSSSSSSS

NameUsedBefore
01-15-2010, 07:53 PM
Going down the tubes.

McDaniels "may" be a bright offensive coordinator, but his attitude and personality do not come across as head coach-material. I think I'd be a little more optimistic if it were not for the fact that this supposedly offensive-genius had some mediocre, predictable playcalling for pretty much the entire year.

roomemp
01-15-2010, 08:01 PM
Going down the tubes.

McDaniels "may" be a bright offensive coordinator, but his attitude and personality do not come across as head coach-material. I think I'd be a little more optimistic if it were not for the fact that this supposedly offensive-genius had some mediocre, predictable playcalling for pretty much the entire year.

Give the man 2 or 3 years to get his pieces in place then judge. Shanny went 8-8 in his first year too. I will only judge him after he has had time to fully implement his system and personel

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 08:22 PM
Somebody helped me to make this a poll but I just can't figure it out, I guess we either post how it is or let it die.

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 08:25 PM
Somebody helped me to make this a poll but I just can't figure it out, I guess we either post how it is or let it die.

you can't modify this one I tried but i can't


you have to start another thread with the info I sent you.

then we can move everything to the new thread

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 08:43 PM
you can't modify this one I tried but i can't


you have to start another thread with the info I sent you.

then we can move everything to the new thread

OH! :D Well clearly i'm not the man for the job, i'm unqualified!

I think if you re-made the thread as your own it would be more successful anyway.

spikerman
01-15-2010, 09:11 PM
I keep seeing a lot of comparisons between McDaniels' and Shanahan's 8-8 records in their first year. That's fair, but then can we expect the Broncos to go 13-3 next year? That was Shanahan's record in year 2.

silkamilkamonico
01-15-2010, 09:33 PM
I keep seeing a lot of comparisons between McDaniels' and Shanahan's 8-8 records in their first year. That's fair, but then can we expect the Broncos to go 13-3 next year? That was Shanahan's record in year 2.

Would be nice. Hopefully we'll get a little more out of McDaniels then we did Shanahan. Shanahan did absolutely nothing without Elway.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-15-2010, 09:38 PM
I keep seeing a lot of comparisons between McDaniels' and Shanahan's 8-8 records in their first year. That's fair, but then can we expect the Broncos to go 13-3 next year? That was Shanahan's record in year 2.

I'm sure Coach McDaniels could also go 13-3 in his second year if Pat could talk #7 out of retirement, and TD also:lol:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm sure Coach McDaniels could also go 13-3 in his second year if Pat could talk #7 out of retirement, and TD also:lol:

OR we could just get dan reeves back to actually draft those players again.

spikerman
01-15-2010, 10:11 PM
OR we could just get dan reeves back to actually draft those players again.

Ummm.. Mike Shanahan drafted Terrell Davis

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 10:15 PM
OR we could just get dan reeves back to actually draft those players again.

Actually he drafted neither. But he was responsible for much of the rest of the players on the team.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-15-2010, 10:21 PM
I know, the colts drafted elway, dan got him, dan drafted shannon sharpe, if he wouldn't have pissed elway off we never would have had shanny.

CrazyHorse
01-15-2010, 10:25 PM
Meet the new boss... Same as the old boss...

spikerman
01-15-2010, 10:26 PM
I know, the colts drafted elway, dan got him, dan drafted shannon sharpe, if he wouldn't have pissed elway off we never would have had shanny.

I guess you could argue that if he hadn't pissed off Elway Denver never would have had Wade Phillips either. :)

nevcraw
01-15-2010, 11:39 PM
was pissed during the offseason.. saw some real hope with the start of the season and quality wins over Dallas, NE, and SD. Really was impressed with the turnaround between Marshall and MCD.
then wheels came off, and now I am pretty much back at the start of the season.. the last half of the season was butt awful..what was the worse was how the team fell apart with adversity..
McD is not creating a unified locker room.. Marshall is gone and this is going to be another rocky offeason.. Let's hope they can get it together by next july..
so as of now I give them a D. draft well, FA well, and coach well and I will certainly change my mind..

slim
01-16-2010, 12:22 AM
I'm OK with the kid...for now. Although I am a little disappointed in the way he has handled himself...a lot of immaturity there.

I always thought the first year would be average and the second year is when we would see what is what.

Here's to a great second year :beer:

Shazam!
01-16-2010, 02:19 AM
If Denver doesn't finish better than .500 next year, he'll be in trouble.

broncofaninfla
01-16-2010, 03:01 AM
Would be nice. Hopefully we'll get a little more out of McDaniels then we did Shanahan. Shanahan did absolutely nothing without Elway.

Which proves we need an elite QB and Orton isn't that guy.

broncofaninfla
01-16-2010, 03:18 AM
For 2009 I was not impressed with Mcd's offensive schemes or play calling at all. Jury is still out on the draft but don't get anything close to a rosey feeling with Moreno , Ayers, or Quinn. Free agency was pretty solid on defense and hiring Nolan was a huge move for Denver. I feel Mcd showed very poor judgement in pointing fingers and calling out the o line, Marshall and Sheff publicly while never acknowledging the obvious short comings in his scheme and play calling. At this point I still prefer Shanahans west coast offense with the zone blocking run scheme over Mcds schemes as our offense was putrid at times in 2009. I am concerned that a coach whos claim to fame is on offense could be so bad at play calling and game planning. Also feel Mcd fed the ball to Moreno too much and used Buck and Hillis too little. Not incorporating Hillis into the offense was nothing short of asinine. I do like Mcd's attitude for the most part and he strikes me at the type of person with a tremendous work ethic. I liked what he had to say at the end of the year press conference and am optimistic things can work out IF he follows through with what he is saying and actually does re-think things, change whats wrong and fine a way to better use the existing talent on the team.

Broncolingus
01-16-2010, 03:22 AM
Understand everyone's different responses/opinions...totally cool.

Figure C is the choice I'd go with...need another season or two for full judgement. If Denver misses the playoffs (bad) or does another "only 4th team in NFL history to miss the playoffs after..." next year, then I might start to grumble a bit...

JMO...

Man...I still can't get past one GD playoff win for the decade...

Now I know how those fans in the 60s felt...

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 03:29 AM
Understand everyone's different responses/opinions...totally cool.

Figure C is the choice I'd go with...need another season or two for full judgement. If Denver misses the playoffs (bad) or does another "only 4th team in NFL history to miss the playoffs after..." next year, then I might start to grumble a bit...

JMO...

Man...I still can't get past one GD playoff win for the decade...

Now I know how those fans in the 60s felt...


I was one and frankly after a while it was wait till next year after about game 4 or 5. But we enjoyed watching them TRY to win.. actually it was into the mid 70's also before we tasted and success in winning.

then of course 1977 was the ultimate high, when we were winning games playing great D and had a fair QB that year also.

but we wound up getting out butts kicked not eh LOS that year ALSO. seems that NO ONE learned from that game either.

Broncolingus
01-16-2010, 03:35 AM
I was one and frankly after a while it was wait till next year after about game 4 or 5. But we enjoyed watching them TRY to win.. actually it was into the mid 70's also before we tasted and success in winning.

then of course 1977 was the ultimate high, when we were winning games playing great D and had a fair QB that year also.

but we wound up getting out butts kicked not eh LOS that year ALSO. seems that NO ONE learned from that game either.

...I was about 9 years old, but remember that. Went to a few games that year with dad.

80s/90s were my 'real' years I guess you could say if that makes any sense...

Man...God Bless John Elway...

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 03:48 AM
...I was about 9 years old, but remember that. Went to a few games that year with dad.

80s/90s were my 'real' years I guess you could say if that makes any sense...

Man...God Bless John Elway...


Actually God Bless Pat Bowlen. he was responsible for it all.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 11:10 AM
Okay, this is how I look at McD's first year:

Positives - Hired a fantastic DC who really did turn our defense around in one season with less than stellar personnel.

He brought in some character FA vets like Dawkins, Davis, and Buck who really contributed and provided leadership to a young team which was important in his first year.

I think (and has been debated) that he drafted well for the first couple of rounds. Moreno and Ayers were top rated guys by draft gurus like Mayock. Alphonso Smith was supposed to be a first rounder, too. The only pick I really didn't like was Quinn and of all of them, he really did nothing to earn his draft status this year.

He established a toughness and fire that I haven't seen in awhile in Denver - at least to start the season. We looked like a team again and that was exciting.

Negatives - He traded away a young, talented, pro-bowl QB over a pissing contest. Even if he and Jay grew to hate each other, he should've kept it out of the media and just made Jay play. By alienating him and then trading him, he not only made us worse at the most important position on the team, he opened the door for all the other guys to do the same thing. Marshall and Scheffler wouldn't also have to go had he just mended his relationship with Cutler. We probably would've made the playoffs this year, too.

He decided to call the offensive plays while implementing his system. He didn't really have the personnel required on the O-line, but he did it anyway. The offense struggled all year and no matter how many 3rd downs and RZ TDs we left on the field, he either couldn't or worse wouldn't change it up to try to give us a chance to win, especially down the stretch. Everyone seemed to see it wasn't working except him.

He did seem to favor ex-Patriots and his drafted/FA players over guys that were already here. Eddie Royal's production and utilization was terrible. He was the perfect guy to play "Wes Welker" in McD's new offense yet he was rarely targeted or gotten involved. No Hillis, even when the other RBs were hurt or struggling. Underutilizing Scheffler. Gaffney over Stokely, etc. I think this did eventaully start to polarize the locker room near the end of the season and was directly responsible for Scheffler's suspension.

Over all, I give him a C. 8-8 is just that, average. No matter how we got there, that's where we are and that's what we are. I have faith we can improve and I'm anxious and excited to see what this offseason brings for us. Where I differ from some is that I just don't think we'll ever be anything more than average until we upgrade at the QB position. I just don't think we can win consistently or be a playoff team with Orton.

MasterShake
01-16-2010, 12:59 PM
Like a prostate exam, its hard to say how I feel about it until its over. And like a prostate exam, I guess right now it just feels uncomfortable but necessary.

So I've heard, anyway.:D

Shazam!
01-16-2010, 01:57 PM
Negatives - He traded away a young, talented, pro-bowl QB over a pissing contest. Even if he and Jay grew to hate each other, he should've kept it out of the media and just made Jay play. By alienating him and then trading him, he not only made us worse...

Please, please stop it. Jay in no way, shape or form did anything to show he wanted to be a part of the Denver Broncos, and I don't want any player in my team's uniform that doesn't want to be there. All because McDaniels heard or even entertained offers of a trade, boo-****ing-hoo. Welcome to the NFL.

He openly voiced displeasure the day Shanahan was fired and did nothing to show McDaniels anything positive from the start except "me, me me." He has done nothing even close to warrant the kind of treatment and say in the direction od coaches or management that John Elway had. He wasn't the voice of the Franchise.

So sick of this Jay Cutler bullshit, and this will haunt McDaniels and the Broncos to a small cabal of fans forever unless they win big and soon.

camdisco24
01-16-2010, 02:06 PM
Many mistakes were made this past year. There is no doubt McD has alot of maturing to do in order to handle a PRO team. I hope with all my heart that he has seen his mistakes and learns from them quickly. I strongly believe he will be a good coach if he changes some of the things he does off-field. Stars are hard to come by so lets hope no more get chased out of here.

As for where I see this team going... I think we can make the playoffs next year if we fix the many holes in our offense. I expected much more from the McD playbook, so I hope he digs a little deeper next season. The last 8 games we were the most predicable team in the NFL. That HAS to change or we will go nowhere.

McD has one of the most important things when it comes to being a head coach; and thats passion. I can see it on the sidelines, he wants to WIN badly. He's not a cotton ball coach that shows no emotion, he wants his players to play for each other and for their city. He wants to be the best, but currently lacks a few key components to get to the top. The new coachs, draft choices, and FA signings will make or break us next season.

My Prediction: Within the next two seasons we have a winning record, make the playoffs, and maybe and win a post-season game. The offseason will paint a pretty good picture of where this team is going next year, it will be very interesting to watch.

GO BRONCOS!

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 02:06 PM
Right on superhero.

Even if they do win the BSQ of negative nancies will still think that jay would have done it better.
We will hear from them till jay impooldes into jeff george part duex. Even then that will be Joshes fault.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Ravage!!!
01-16-2010, 03:35 PM
Okay, this is how I look at McD's first year:

Positives - Hired a fantastic DC who really did turn our defense around in one season with less than stellar personnel.

He brought in some character FA vets like Dawkins, Davis, and Buck who really contributed and provided leadership to a young team which was important in his first year.

I think (and has been debated) that he drafted well for the first couple of rounds. Moreno and Ayers were top rated guys by draft gurus like Mayock. Alphonso Smith was supposed to be a first rounder, too. The only pick I really didn't like was Quinn and of all of them, he really did nothing to earn his draft status this year.

He established a toughness and fire that I haven't seen in awhile in Denver - at least to start the season. We looked like a team again and that was exciting.

Negatives - He traded away a young, talented, pro-bowl QB over a pissing contest. Even if he and Jay grew to hate each other, he should've kept it out of the media and just made Jay play. By alienating him and then trading him, he not only made us worse at the most important position on the team, he opened the door for all the other guys to do the same thing. Marshall and Scheffler wouldn't also have to go had he just mended his relationship with Cutler. We probably would've made the playoffs this year, too.

He decided to call the offensive plays while implementing his system. He didn't really have the personnel required on the O-line, but he did it anyway. The offense struggled all year and no matter how many 3rd downs and RZ TDs we left on the field, he either couldn't or worse wouldn't change it up to try to give us a chance to win, especially down the stretch. Everyone seemed to see it wasn't working except him.

He did seem to favor ex-Patriots and his drafted/FA players over guys that were already here. Eddie Royal's production and utilization was terrible. He was the perfect guy to play "Wes Welker" in McD's new offense yet he was rarely targeted or gotten involved. No Hillis, even when the other RBs were hurt or struggling. Underutilizing Scheffler. Gaffney over Stokely, etc. I think this did eventaully start to polarize the locker room near the end of the season and was directly responsible for Scheffler's suspension.

Over all, I give him a C. 8-8 is just that, average. No matter how we got there, that's where we are and that's what we are. I have faith we can improve and I'm anxious and excited to see what this offseason brings for us. Where I differ from some is that I just don't think we'll ever be anything more than average until we upgrade at the QB position. I just don't think we can win consistently or be a playoff team with Orton.


Nice post.....

Denver Native (Carol)
01-16-2010, 04:10 PM
Negatives - He traded away a young, talented, pro-bowl QB over a pissing contest. Even if he and Jay grew to hate each other, he should've kept it out of the media and just made Jay play. By alienating him and then trading him, he not only made us worse at the most important position on the team, he opened the door for all the other guys to do the same thing. Marshall and Scheffler wouldn't also have to go had he just mended his relationship with Cutler. We probably would've made the playoffs this year, too.

and just made Jay play - Jay made it be KNOWN - PUBLICLY - that he HAD no intention of attending the first player's MANDATORY meeting (I believe that was his FIRST refusal) - JUST HOW WAS COACH MCD SUPPOSE TO MAKE JAY PLAY????????? He refuses to show up for ANYTHING mandatory - meeting, training camp - and the Coach is just suppose to WAIT HIM OUT???? And, oh by the way - START TRAINING CAMP WITH EITHER SIMMS OR THE ROOKIE????????????

I am sure that you really know that Coach McD had no OTHER option, but to trade Cutler.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Please, please stop it. Jay in no way, shape or form did anything to show he wanted to be a part of the Denver Broncos, and I don't want any player in my team's uniform that doesn't want to be there. All because McDaniels heard or even entertained offers of a trade, boo-****ing-hoo. Welcome to the NFL.

He openly voiced displeasure the day Shanahan was fired and did nothing to show McDaniels anything positive from the start except "me, me me." He has done nothing even close to warrant the kind of treatment and say in the direction od coaches or management that John Elway had. He wasn't the voice of the Franchise.

So sick of this Jay Cutler bullshit, and this will haunt McDaniels and the Broncos to a small cabal of fans forever unless they win big and soon.

This may come as a complete surprise to you Shazam, but none of the players WANT TO BE BRONCOS. They play for money, their coaches, and their teammates, not for the city of Denver. They're not fans. Usually, they could care less who's signing the paychecks as long as they are getting them. That's the way of the world. People keep saying "if they don't want to be here, then I don't want them here". Guess what, NONE of the players WANT to be here anymore than they WANT to be on any other team that will give them the opportunity to play, get paid, and win games.

Had McDaniels treated Champ or any other vet like he did Cutler, Champ would no longer be a Bronco, either. Stop trying to make it seem like a one-way problem where Cutler did everything wrong and McD just weathered the storm. Cutler acted like a spoiled brat, but so did McDaniels and by giving in to Cutler's demands he showed his immaturity. By giving in to Cutler's demands and "removing a cancer" as everyone likes to say, he actually made the problem worse. Other players know all they have to do is act poorly and Josh will trade them away. Is that really what we want? A little "friction" with the coach, or the gameplan, or their salary equals a one way ticket outta town? Every team deals with these problems every year, we're the only one who trades away pro-bowlers because of it.

News Flash, people are a fan of the TEAM, not just the Coach and not just the players, but who's jerseys are we wearing? How many 'McDaniels' jerseys get sold weekly in Denver? Yeah, that's what I thought. Fans root for players. If we get rid of all the "Good Players" who's left? How many Orton and Gaffney jerseys got sold this year, I wonder? how did orton and Gaffney do with the playoffs hanging in the balance?

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 04:15 PM
blah, blah, blah gets old does it not..

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 04:17 PM
and just made Jay play - Jay made it be KNOWN - PUBLICLY - that he HAD no intention of attending the first player's MANDATORY meeting (I believe that was his FIRST refusal) - JUST HOW WAS COACH MCD SUPPOSE TO MAKE JAY PLAY????????? He refuses to show up for ANYTHING mandatory - meeting, training camp - and the Coach is just suppose to WAIT HIM OUT???? And, oh by the way - START TRAINING CAMP WITH EITHER SIMMS OR THE ROOKIE????????????

I am sure that you really know that Coach McD had no OTHER option, but to trade Cutler.

Guys hold out EVERY YEAR and MISS MANDATORY STUFF all the time. Does anyone honestly think that Cutler would've held out all year and forgone his entire salary and all his bonuses just because he was unhappy with McD? Did Marshall? No, he realized that it was a LOT of MONEY. he showed up and played, earning another pro-bowl. If you don't think Cutler would've done the same, you really just don't watch much football.

Apollo
01-16-2010, 04:28 PM
This may come as a complete surprise to you Shazam, but none of the players WANT TO BE BRONCOS. They play for money, their coaches, and their teammates, not for the city of Denver. They're not fans. Usually, they could care less who's signing the paychecks as long as they are getting them. That's the way of the world. People keep saying "if they don't want to be here, then I don't want them here". Guess what, NONE of the players WANT to be here anymore than they WANT to be on any other team that will give them the opportunity to play, get paid, and win games.

You have this spot on, I have to admit. There are some players with genuine love for the team (Elway, Rod Smith ect), but a lot of the time, the team is just a source of a pay check for the players. I don't think Cutler felt any loyalties to this team, and when things took a down turn he decided he wanted to move elsewhere.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-16-2010, 04:30 PM
This may come as a complete surprise to you Shazam, but none of the players WANT TO BE BRONCOS. They play for money, their coaches, and their teammates, not for the city of Denver. They're not fans. Usually, they could care less who's signing the paychecks as long as they are getting them. That's the way of the world. People keep saying "if they don't want to be here, then I don't want them here". Guess what, NONE of the players WANT to be here anymore than they WANT to be on any other team that will give them the opportunity to play, get paid, and win games.

REALLY - How many past Bronco players have renegotiated their contracts DOWN to help out the Broncos - JOHN ELWAY being the greatest

Apollo
01-16-2010, 04:34 PM
REALLY - How many past Bronco players have renegotiated their contracts DOWN to help out the Broncos - JOHN ELWAY being the greatest

Elway, Rod Smith, TD, these guys are legends with genuine love.

Cutler does not fall into this category unfortunately, as do most of the current players on the roster.

It's a greedy world... :(

Nomad
01-16-2010, 04:38 PM
Elway, Rod Smith, TD, these guys are legends with genuine love.

Cutler does not fall into this category unfortunately, as do most of the current players on the roster.

It's a greedy world... :(

Cutler never will either! I never liked him from the beginning!!

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 04:40 PM
REALLY - How many past Bronco players have renegotiated their contracts DOWN to help out the Broncos - JOHN ELWAY being the greatest

Carol come on. By the time Elway renegotiated his contract down to help out the team he had been a Bronco for 15 YEARS! He was already a HOFer and wanted to win a Championship before he retired. Do you think he would've given a rats ass back in 1985 or '86?

Using Elway the vet in the late '90s as any kind of comparison to Cutler or anybody else is just so ridiculous. The Broncos were HIS team. The Owner had fired coaches because HE didn't like them! The Owner asked for HIS opinions on things!

Now, compare Jay Cutler (the cancer who whined his way out of town) to Elway (the cancer who whined his way out of playing for the Colts so he was traded to the Broncos). Tell me, how long did it take the Colts to recover? How long till they found their "Elway" in Manning? I'm betting the Colts probably for many years wished they'd have just held on to Elway's rights and waited him out. I know he threatened to play baseball, but had the Colts played hardball with him, you never know.

Using Elway as an example is just so out there, it's like using Dan Reeves' successes and failures to compare to Josh McDaniels.

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 04:42 PM
Elway, Rod Smith, TD, these guys are legends with genuine love.

Cutler does not fall into this category unfortunately, as do most of the current players on the roster.

It's a greedy world... :(

I think we have many more than we realize.. there was real passion on this team for awhile last year and that is not greed.

I do not think that Dawkins, Champ for example are just greedy.

I think you can add Hillis and Orton to that list also and may be even Marshall when he was actually playing ball and not thinking. certainly not Josh he sweats passion..

Apollo
01-16-2010, 04:45 PM
I think we have many more than we realize.. there was real passion on this team for awhile last year and that is not greed.

I do not think that Dawkins, Champ for example are just greedy.

I think you can add Hillis and Orton to that list also and may be even Marshall when he was actually playing ball and not thinking. certainly not Josh he sweats passion..

I'll put it to you like this, if one of those players got a HUGE offer to play for another team, I think they would (not Champ, but the others).

Lonestar
01-16-2010, 04:49 PM
Cutler never will either! I never liked him from the beginning!!


Intially I did not either we needed a DT so much more than a new Qb.

but he grew on me and really thought he just may learn to love the new scheme here even after being "ME" in his last season here.

IMO he was doing everything he could to get his extra bonus money and new contract from mike, that it was to the detriment of what was good for the team. again that IMO.

I know that this will cause the BSQ to howl and sing in harmony about how great he was for our #2 offense. but so be it.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 04:49 PM
I think we have many more than we realize.. there was real passion on this team for awhile last year and that is not greed.

I do not think that Dawkins, Champ for example are just greedy.

I think you can add Hillis and Orton to that list also and may be even Marshall when he was actually playing ball and not thinking. certainly not Josh he sweats passion..

It's not about greed. It's a job to these guys. If after this season, Josh McDaniels heard that Bowlen was hiring Cowher to be the new HC and Josh was going to stay on as the OC, do you think his overwhelming loyalty to being a Bronco would cause him to stay?

McD would give Bowlen the finger, and get the "F" outta town so fast it would make your head spin. Stop with the loyalty and "wanting to be a Bronco", talk. The guys that are happy are happy for a reason. If J McD asked Champ to renegotiate his deal for cap space then decided to bench Champ for Alphonso Smith next year, how do you think Champ would respond? Would he hang out on the bench because he "LOVES BEING A BRONCO SO MUCH"? No, he'd want out of here. Anybody would.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 04:56 PM
I do find it extremely amusing that by me voicing an opinion in a post about the new regime, we've embroiled ourselves in another Cutler debate. All I said in my original post was that I think we handled the Cutler situation poorly.

I was immediately attacked again. I dared say something negative and here we go again. I LOVE THIS PLACE!!! :beer:

I'll be here all season!

Denver Native (Carol)
01-16-2010, 05:04 PM
Carol come on. By the time Elway renegotiated his contract down to help out the team he had been a Bronco for 15 YEARS! He was already a HOFer and wanted to win a Championship before he retired. Do you think he would've given a rats ass back in 1985 or '86?

Using Elway the vet in the late '90s as any kind of comparison to Cutler or anybody else is just so ridiculous. The Broncos were HIS team. The Owner had fired coaches because HE didn't like them! The Owner asked for HIS opinions on things!

Now, compare Jay Cutler (the cancer who whined his way out of town) to Elway (the cancer who whined his way out of playing for the Colts so he was traded to the Broncos). Tell me, how long did it take the Colts to recover? How long till they found their "Elway" in Manning? I'm betting the Colts probably for many years wished they'd have just held on to Elway's rights and waited him out. I know he threatened to play baseball, but had the Colts played hardball with him, you never know.

Using Elway as an example is just so out there, it's like using Dan Reeves' successes and failures to compare to Josh McDaniels.

Do you know for a fact that Elway just renegotiated his contract ONCE?????? And he was not the only Bronco who renegotiated their contract.

And do not forget what Reeves pulled on Elway with Maddox

silkamilkamonico
01-16-2010, 05:08 PM
I do find it extremely amusing that by me voicing an opinion in a post about the new regime, we've embroiled ourselves in another Cutler debate. All I said in my original post was that I think we handled the Cutler situation poorly.

I was immediately attacked again. I dared say something negative and here we go again. I LOVE THIS PLACE!!! :beer:

I'll be here all season!

With the benefit of hindsight, McDaniels did Denver a favor.

Cutler is not an elite QB. He isn't even a top 10 QB in the NFL. The guy is the third best QB in his own division, and maybe 4th if you consider Stafford's potential, which is really the only argument for Cutler.

If Cutler would have stayed, McDaniels probably would have felt handcuffed to him, Denver would be stuck with him and his turnover ass, and would probably be in trouble for the next 3-5 years.

Instead, McDaniels shipped his crybaby selfish ass out, got 2 first round picks and a quality starter for the meantime (while he searches for his QB), and had no negative results from an organizational standpoint.

If people want to say he handled that poorly, fine. Then they also must say Jay Cutler handled it poorly. Make a decision, it's either or. But with the benefit of hindsight, it was actually a brilliant move.

Apollo
01-16-2010, 05:08 PM
in another Cutler debate.

Cutler is a big part of how things were run this season. Had Cutler stayed/been handled differently our discussions would be completely different now...be it for the positive or the negative.

It's inevitable that in a discussion about our management that Cutler would come up.

Nomad
01-16-2010, 05:12 PM
Cutler is a big part of how things were run this season. Had Cutler stayed/been handled differently our discussions would be completely different now...be it for the positive or the negative.

It's inevitable that in a discussion about our management that Cutler would come up.

Which is a moot point to discuss him now because 'what ifs', speculation, and opinions doesn't prove shit!!

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 05:12 PM
Do you know for a fact that Elway just renegotiated his contract ONCE?????? And he was not the only Bronco who renegotiated their contract.

And do not forget what Reeves pulled on Elway with Maddox

And it got Reeves fired. Remember? Elway knew where he stood with the Broncos.

Once again, this wasn't and isn't about guys restructuring contracts. Rod Smith did it, Champ has done it, Elway did it. Elway was the ONLY Bronco to take a PAY CUT to help out with the cap, though. The other guys just restructured to lower their cap number, they still made the same amount in the end. You just can't compare pro-bowl caliber vets who've made their name, legacy, and millions to young guys working on their first contract. Apples and Oranges. By the time any of these guys did this, they had already had their payday AND KNEW THEY WERE HERE TO STAY.

This is about the way the team is handling players. If their stance is simply to trade away guys that have a problem with a coach or their contract every year, then so be it. It's not going to make us better, nor is it going to make us attractive to many FAs.

silkamilkamonico
01-16-2010, 05:14 PM
Elway was the ONLY Bronco to take a PAY CUT to help out with the cap, though. .


Elway took a pay cut for paper purpose only. It wasn't a pay cut at all. Actually a pay raise. Everybody knows what really happened with that one.

Apollo
01-16-2010, 05:14 PM
Which is a moot point to discuss him now because 'what ifs', speculation, and opinions doesn't prove shit!!

I know but it's inevitable. It'll be like Plummer all over again. :D

Broncos fans love QB discussions, it's what makes us who we are. :D

silkamilkamonico
01-16-2010, 05:17 PM
Broncos fans love QB discussions, it's what makes us who we are. :D

It's crazy too. The Cutler vs. Orton debate is hilarious.

It's like going crazy over the argument of "Who's better, Jay Fielder or Jon Kitna?"

Nomad
01-16-2010, 05:18 PM
I know but it's inevitable. It'll be like Plummer all over again. :D

Broncos fans love QB discussions, it's what makes us who we are. :D

I guess what ever entertains someone!!!:lol: But it seems useless to get all worked up over something you can't prove!!

HORSEPOWER 56
01-16-2010, 05:23 PM
With the benefit of hindsight, McDaniels did Denver a favor.

Cutler is not an elite QB. He isn't even a top 10 QB in the NFL. The guy is the third best QB in his own division, and maybe 4th if you consider Stafford's potential, which is really the only argument for Cutler.

If Cutler would have stayed, McDaniels probably would have felt handcuffed to him, Denver would be stuck with him and his turnover ass, and would probably be in trouble for the next 3-5 years.

Instead, McDaniels shipped his crybaby selfish ass out, got 2 first round picks and a quality starter for the meantime (while he searches for his QB), and had no negative results from an organizational standpoint.

If people want to say he handled that poorly, fine. Then they also must say Jay Cutler handled it poorly. Make a decision, it's either or. But with the benefit of hindsight, it was actually a brilliant move.

I said Jay was a whiny baby, too. He may be all the things you say he is, but I just can't bring myself to call Orton a "quality starter". To be completely honest with you, I'd rather have just about any other starting QB in the league right now.

What he spends that 1st round draft pick on this season (the last one from the Cutler deal) will be telling on whether it was a "brilliant move". 8-8 with Cutler and 8-8 without him doesn't exactly stun me with "brilliance". Especially if in the end, the offense is worse.

I also don't see how you can say that we had no negative results? Our defense was light years better this year. This year's defense with last years offense could've been special. Instead, one step forward, two steps back.

McDaniels has my full support this year and I'm excited to see what he'll do. I was giving my opinions on last year's performance.

Apollo
01-16-2010, 05:34 PM
Cutler:

27 TD, 26 INT, 3,666 Yards, 60.5%

Orton:

21 TD, 12 INT, 3,802, 62%

Stats never tell the full story but...

nevcraw
01-16-2010, 05:55 PM
Cutler:

27 TD, 26 INT, 3,666 Yards, 60.5%

Orton:

21 TD, 12 INT, 3,802, 62%

Stats never tell the full story but...

you are right.. the true story is both QB's are watching the playoffs from home.. and b/c I am only a bronco fan, the reason Orton is at home is all I give a flying **** about..

Apollo
01-16-2010, 05:58 PM
you are right.. the true story is both QB's are watching the playoffs from home.. and b/c I am only a bronco fan, the reason Orton is at home is all I give a flying **** about..

I'm just saying that Orton didn't do a worse job than Cutler this season.

Medford Bronco
01-16-2010, 06:14 PM
as one coach in boston said

Jay Cutler is not walking through that door.

If you dont like the way things are, no one is handcuffing you and making you be a bronco fan. Just my opinion.

It was year one of a messy situation from the year before.

If we go 8-8 again next year or worse then I will not be happy either but wont keep brining up the past.

heck why not bring up Plummer or Griese if that were the case. :rolleyes:

Medford Bronco
01-16-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm just saying that Orton didn't do a worse job than Cutler this season.

He acutally threw only 11 picks not 26 like the overrated :franchiseqb: :lol:

nevcraw
01-16-2010, 07:03 PM
as one coach in boston said

Jay Cutler is not walking through that door.

If you dont like the way things are, no one is handcuffing you and making you be a bronco fan. Just my opinion.

It was year one of a messy situation from the year before.

If we go 8-8 again next year or worse then I will not be happy either but wont keep brining up the past.

heck why not bring up Plummer or Griese if that were the case. :rolleyes:

who was this in response to?

nevcraw
01-16-2010, 07:06 PM
I'm just saying that Orton didn't do a worse job than Cutler this season.

no offense at all but who cares.. as a bronco fan Orton is the one who plays for the team we root for.. the other one doesn't matter..

Denver Native (Carol)
01-16-2010, 07:28 PM
no offense at all but who cares.. as a bronco fan Orton is the one who plays for the team we root for.. the other one doesn't matter..

Think it was just a comparison for those who still feel it was a mistake that Cutler is not a Bronco anymore. I agree with you - as a Bronco fan, Orton is the Broncos' QB, and the one we SHOULD be rooting for.

silkamilkamonico
01-16-2010, 07:38 PM
I said Jay was a whiny baby, too. He may be all the things you say he is, but I just can't bring myself to call Orton a "quality starter". To be completely honest with you, I'd rather have just about any other starting QB in the league right now.

Any other QB? Dude that's absurd. I don't like Orton either, but you can't argue with him being better than 10-12 QB's in the NFL. His past states he's better, and his stats says he's better. If people are saying otherwise, it's nothing but blind biased hatred towards the guy.

That puts him in the 20-22 range. Considering Cutler isn't much better in the 17-19 range, nobody should even be comparing the QB position, past or present.


What he spends that 1st round draft pick on this season (the last one from the Cutler deal) will be telling on whether it was a "brilliant move". 8-8 with Cutler and 8-8 without him doesn't exactly stun me with "brilliance". Especially if in the end, the offense is worse.

I completely disagree. Where the team is in 2 years will be the telling scenario. I could throw out some random facts about Cutler during his 8-8 season, but you wouldn't understand anyways. Look at his wins-losses against playoff teams, and look at Ortons' in 2009.


I also don't see how you can say that we had no negative results? Our defense was light years better this year. This year's defense with last years offense could've been special. Instead, one step forward, two steps back.

We had the exact same record = no negative results. I don't care what anyone thinks, the defense was better and helped by the offense not putting them in bad situations.



McDaniels has my full support this year and I'm excited to see what he'll do. I was giving my opinions on last year's performance.

I understand that, but you mkae it sound like we had this juggernaut of a team the year before that underachieved, and then McDaniels takes "2 steps behind" and finishes with the same record?

The 2008 team was not that good. Our beloved offense with Cutler was merely average in scoring points. That's not good. And Jay Cutler's red zone struggles was a prime example of that.

Apollo
01-16-2010, 08:00 PM
no offense at all but who cares.. as a bronco fan Orton is the one who plays for the team we root for.. the other one doesn't matter..

What my post meant was that Orton did just as good as Cutler, and we should have no regrets what so ever about letting Cutler go when Orton isn't really doing THAT bad.

sakic_avs
01-17-2010, 01:09 AM
What my post meant was that Orton did just as good as Cutler, and we should have no regrets what so ever about letting Cutler go when Orton isn't really doing THAT bad.

People really don't understand that Orton had a very good season and Cutler really isn't any better. Orton won't be the (quote)HOF/Franchise QB(un-quote) the delusional posters think Cutler will, but he has and will win NFL games.

pnbronco
01-17-2010, 03:01 AM
Who you gonna bring in as a coach?


His intelligence is there. The work ethic is there. The social skills need work, but its more so cause hes so young, so accomplished, and so driven that he almost has to be in order to survive the criticism.

One thing you GOTTA love...........HE WANTS TO WIN IN THE WORST KINDA WAY!

Thats the mentality you want in your players, and thats the mentality you want in your coaches.


Im happy with him at this point. If he cant turn the corner, then he'll have to do some more learning elsewhere.

No one wants McDaniels to succeed more than me.

Cause that means the B R O N C O S are kickin teeth!:salute:


Great post War! If we ever go into battle I want to be with you.....:D

Coach has energy that's just infectious and he knows football.

What he's learning is how to be a manager. The Avs Head Coach was a Head Coach in the Minors. Coach Sacco learned how to manage players, other coaches and staff without being under a microscope. I think there is a big difference between being a OC and HC.

I believe that Coach needs to be more flexible with his schemes, but I really believe that when he has time to evaluate it he'll adjust. I just think he made some Rookie mistakes. Heck it's only 6 1/2 months to camp.....:D

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 09:26 AM
Any other QB? Dude that's absurd. I don't like Orton either, but you can't argue with him being better than 10-12 QB's in the NFL. His past states he's better, and his stats says he's better. If people are saying otherwise, it's nothing but blind biased hatred towards the guy.

That puts him in the 20-22 range. Considering Cutler isn't much better in the 17-19 range, nobody should even be comparing the QB position, past or present.

Yes. I don't think it's absurd at all.

It's easier to list the guys I'd rather not have over the ones I would. Remember, I'm talking starters here.

Jake Delhomme
Brett Favre (only because I hate him and he's old).
Any of the guys from St Louis this past year (Bulger, Null, Boller)
Fitzpatrick or Edwards from Buffalo

That's about it. I'm serious. I know you're thinking WTF? Jason Campbell? Alex Smith? Chad Henne? Yep, I'd take all of them over Orton. They have mobility and better arms from what I've seen. Orton has good stats from Denver because of the system we run. His completion % is off the charts because we throw everything short. As soon as we go longer than 10 yards in the air that percentage is one of the worst in the league as evidenced by the fact that we can't convert on 3rd down. I have no doubt any of the guys I didn't list could've done as well or better throwing 3 yard curls and bubble screens all year. Orton's stats are a facade, everyone knows it.

McD's system is like the Texas Tech or Hawaii system. It makes the passer look great on paper but any old clown can run it. Lots of short, high percentage throws that boost the numbers and yards on paper.

We need a better QB, period. Orton will not get us where we want to go unless we magically become a top 3 defense with a top 3 running game next season (see also, the NYJ).

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 09:43 AM
Cutler:

27 TD, 26 INT, 3,666 Yards, 60.5%

Orton:

21 TD, 12 INT, 3,802, 62%

Stats never tell the full story but...

You guys just kill me with the stats just to try to prove your point. And yet with all those "stats", one game separates their records. What does that tell you?

For all of you "stats gurus", why don't you post Elway's stats? Go ahead, see how many INTs he threw his first 5-6 years in the league. The point being, that no matter what Orton's stat line says... he isn't the guy that's going to EVER avoid a sack, roll out and hit a streaking WR 40 yds downfield to score a big TD in an important game. Cutler can (and has) done that. Most starting QBs can do that.

Orton does not have an "it" factor. He doesn't have the physical traits to make big plays in big games. How many times in big games did he do it this year? How many wins were because ORTON made a great throw (no, not a 3 yard curl that Marshall turned into 50 yds), or scrambled for a first down because there was nothing there, or avoided a big sack late in the game to keep a drive alive?

I DON'T CARE THAT YOU ALL HATE CUTLER, HE'S NOT EVEN A BRONCO ANYMORE. I said I think we handled him poorly and as a result, we're about to lose Marshall and Scheffler, too. That's all I said. You guys were the ones who started another pissing contest about Cutler vs Orton - NOT ME.

Apollo
01-17-2010, 03:11 PM
The record of the team shouldn't have a direct effect on how we rank the Quarterback. After all, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, but it's quite safe to say he is absolute garbage.

As I said in my post, stats don't mean everything but we can damn well see that Orton is more careful with the ball than Cutler, as well as throwing nearly as many TD's and being more accurate.

By the way, in his 4th year Elway threw 13 INT's.

Superchop 7
01-17-2010, 03:36 PM
My only comment is that besides everything being new to Coach McD, he faced other circumstances that many established coaches have never had to face. I am willing to give him time - and hopefully this coming season will be without negative player circumstances, where his full concentration can be on the job at hand, and also be on what he was hired to do.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________

Carol, he is not absolved of his circumstances. Think in terms of Tomlinson and Turner, both inherited good teams, both "tweaked" them to success. Josh on the other hand, "created" problems.

How do I feel ?

I feel he screwed up.

He is a coach that needs to look in the mirror, acknowledge his mistakes, and learn from them. It is my sincere hope that he embraces the philosophy that has been in this town since day 1, treat a man like a man.

I am also concerned for the fan base, I have never seen anger like this, callers to talk shows frequently lose their composure. Players feed off the mood of the town, re-connecting with fans should be job #1. Josh needs to lose the "we only care what happens behind these walls" philosophy and embrace the community.

silkamilkamonico
01-17-2010, 04:12 PM
Yes. I don't think it's absurd at all.

It's easier to list the guys I'd rather not have over the ones I would. Remember, I'm talking starters here.

Jake Delhomme
Brett Favre (only because I hate him and he's old).
Any of the guys from St Louis this past year (Bulger, Null, Boller)
Fitzpatrick or Edwards from Buffalo

Well, you may not rather have them over Orton, but you can't deny that Orton is better than,

Jason Campbell
David Gerrard
Alex Smith
Chad Henne
Marc Bulger
Josh Freeman
Insert QB here:
Raiders
Browns
Buffalo

And even an argument over a handful of others. He was better than them at Chicago before this year. Wins say he is, and stats say he is. Please don't tell me you're going by potential, because Ryan Leaf had potential.


I know you're thinking WTF? Jason Campbell? Alex Smith? Chad Henne? Yep, I'd take all of them over Orton. They have mobility and better arms from what I've seen. Orton has good stats from Denver because of the system we run.

Yea. WTF? They aren't better than Orton, I'm sorry. Mike McMahon had great mobility and a better arm, I guess you'd rather have him too, even though 32 NFL teams wanted nothing to do with him.

You can have your opinion on it, but it's quite clear to me that you care more about your hatred for Orton than your love for Denver, considering you'd rather have a QB that wouldn't have even won 8 games with Denver this year, and there's a plethora of them.


His completion % is off the charts because we throw everything short. As soon as we go longer than 10 yards in the air that percentage is one of the worst in the league as evidenced by the fact that we can't convert on 3rd down. I have no doubt any of the guys I didn't list could've done as well or better throwing 3 yard curls and bubble screens all year. Orton's stats are a facade, everyone knows it.

I can't take this argument serious, because in a flipped notion of comparison, you've just named Rex Grossman a better QB, and downfield threat than Jay Cutler. And even I don't believe that.

As far as the bubble screens and curls agurment, you apparently didn;t watch Chad Henne at all this year. He was one of the worst QB's in the NFL, statwise, in passes of 10 yards or less.


McD's system is like the Texas Tech or Hawaii system. It makes the passer look great on paper but any old clown can run it. Lots of short, high percentage throws that boost the numbers and yards on paper.

First you argue McD's offense similiar to there's. Then you say any clown can run it. Those school's have produced some of the best college Qb's in the nation, and have 0 starting QB's in the NFL. What's next? You'd rather draft Josh Nesbitt from GaTech because he can "run"? That's an absolutely terrible argument.


We need a better QB, period. Orton will not get us where we want to go unless we magically become a top 3 defense with a top 3 running game next season (see also, the NYJ).

I'm not going to argue with that. But I'm also not stupid enough where I'd rather have Chad Henne, or Josh Freeman, or Ryan Fitzpatrick, or Jamarcus Russell as our QB. I actually care about Denver winning.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 04:50 PM
Well, you may not rather have them over Orton, but you can't deny that Orton is better than,

Jason Campbell
David Gerrard
Alex Smith
Chad Henne
Marc Bulger
Josh Freeman
Insert QB here:
Raiders
Browns
Buffalo



Like I said in my previous post, I wouldn't want Marc Bulger or any of the ST Louis QBs. I kinda forgot about the Raiders, but I'd take Gradkowski over Orton in a second. I'd take either Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson over Orton, too. Josh Freeman, yep. David Garrard, yep. Chad Henne, yep. Alex Smith, yep. Buffalo QBs, nope (like I said before).

Seriously Silky, I watched Orton play this year and he was beyond putrid. He looked like a bad third string rookie out there. His "good games" also corresponded to games where Marshall had huge games with YAC. Brian Griese was more mobile, Jake Plummer was more accurate, and that's saying something. I'd rather have either one of them over Orton. I don't hate Orton because of who he is. I hate him because he's just a flat out bad QB. Period. Nothing would've made me happier than to be wrong about him. There was no blind hate for him. If he was a good QB, I'd be happy. All I've seen from him that is "good" is stuff any QB can do (not throw ints, but not really compete either). I've also seen all the bad stuff like not being able to avoid the rush, read a defense or throw downfield accurately.

silkamilkamonico
01-17-2010, 05:06 PM
I'd take either Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson over Orton, too. Josh Freeman, yep. David Garrard, yep. Chad Henne, yep. Alex Smith, yep. Buffalo QBs, nope (like I said before).

Like I said. You obviously care more about hating Orton than Denver winning. Not even you could twist an argument that woudl have Denver finishing with an 8-8 record or better, with the QB's here.





Seriously Silky, I watched Orton play this year and he was beyond putrid. He looked like a bad third string rookie out there. His "good games" also corresponded to games where Marshall had huge games with YAC.

Well then, I'm glad we can go ahead and put any rest to Jay Cutler being a good NFL QB, considering he never did anything without Brandon Marshall. And still hasn't. He was a worse QB than Orton this year, and for as much as I dislike Orton that says alot.





Brian Griese was more mobile, Jake Plummer was more accurate, and that's saying something. I'd rather have either one of them over Orton. I don't hate Orton because of who he is. I hate him because he's just a flat out bad QB. Period. Nothing would've made me happier than to be wrong about him. There was no blind hate for him. If he was a good QB, I'd be happy. All I've seen from him that is "good" is stuff any QB can do (not throw ints, but not really compete either). I've also seen all the bad stuff like not being able to avoid the rush, read a defense or throw downfield accurately.

Brian Griese couldn't even beat Orton out in Chicago, and that says ALOT. Like I said, it's just a blind hatred argument. I think the Chicago organization is a joke when knowing what good QB's are, but let's not sit here and pretend we actually know more than they do, because that would be absurd.

I agree about Plummer though. He's been Denver's best QB since Elway, and the organization has been an utter failure with anyone else behind Center. The stats and records prove it.

sakic_avs
01-17-2010, 05:34 PM
I kinda forgot about the Raiders, but I'd take Gradkowski over Orton in a second.

Well, I'm new to this place, but I know I can put you on ignore, because that's just stuipid and irrational.

Much less the Alex Smith comment. That's utterly laughable.

silkamilkamonico
01-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Well, I'm new to this place, but I know I can put you on ignore, because that's just stuipid and irrational.

Much less the Alex Smith comment. That's utterly laughable.

Horsepower's generally a pretty good poster, but I'm not sure what's up with his irrational thinking with Orton. I'm not a fan of the guy either but some of those arguments are just absurd.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
01-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Seriously guys, we're almost a year removed from Jay, why does ever ******* thread turn into a jay or kyle debate?! Do you people not realize there are 52 other players on each roster you could discuss? Do we need to argue the same shit every day? Grow the **** up.

silkamilkamonico
01-17-2010, 05:45 PM
Seriously guys, we're almost a year removed from Jay, why does ever ******* thread turn into a jay or kyle debate?! Do you people not realize there are 52 other players on each roster you could discuss? Do we need to argue the same shit every day? Grow the **** up.

Trading one losing QB for another ineffective QB is a big concern to myself anyways. More so for this organizations inability to get a good productive QB.

Northman
01-17-2010, 05:49 PM
Trading one losing QB for another ineffective QB is a big concern to myself anyways. More so for this organizations inability to get a good productive QB.

There's really only a handful of teams that have consistent reliable QB's right now. A majority of the league has issues finding their "go-to" guys. Denver is just one of the few still searching.

CrazyHorse
01-17-2010, 08:10 PM
The Broncos should have hired Rex Ryan.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-17-2010, 10:02 PM
Horsepower's generally a pretty good poster, but I'm not sure what's up with his irrational thinking with Orton. I'm not a fan of the guy either but some of those arguments are just absurd.

Thanks for the plug. ;) My irrational thinking is directly linked to Orton's irregular play. I just don't think the guy is the answer, that's pretty much it. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem get the hell off my team. That's it, I'm done bitching now.

Cugel
01-18-2010, 05:40 PM
I keep seeing a lot of comparisons between McDaniels' and Shanahan's 8-8 records in their first year. That's fair, but then can we expect the Broncos to go 13-3 next year? That was Shanahan's record in year 2.

I see NO comparison at all. Shanahan had a Hall of Fame QB in Elway. McDaniels has Kyle Orton. :coffee:

Clearly, Shanahan had the most important ingredient for a SB run. All he had to do was build a decent supporting cast around Elway and start collecting his rings. And that took 1 year.

Remember Shannon Sharpe in Sept. 1999 after Elway retired? He was telling his teammates: "we're not a great team. We are a pretty good team with a great QB. There's a difference."

They didn't want to believe him. They thought they could win with the "system" and Bubby Brister. Shanahan didn't like the look of that in pre-season, and went to Brian Griese.

Griese actually had a better season in 2000 than Orton did THIS year: Griese 19 TDs, 4 Ints and a pro-bowl appearance; Orton 21 TDs, 12 Ints.

To give you an idea how barren mere stats are, Jason Campbell had a better passer rating than Orton.

One thing you can bet is that Jason Campbell will NOT be the starting QB in DC under Shanny next season. :coffee:

Orton meanwhile had a slightly worse passer rating than Kurt Warner.

It will be a LONG HOT DAY IN HELL when Orton gets ranked in the same zip code with Kurt Warner. :coffee:

This is the argument I constantly have with the "Orton's Army" people: I don't care what his stats were for the season. We've been THROUGH THIS BEFORE with Brian Griese.

Same exact thing! Shanahan thought that he could win a championship with his genius offensive scheme and all those 15 play scripts, so long as he had a game manager QB who would do what he said and not turn the ball over.

He got that in Brian Griese, but it didn't work out too well now did it? :coffee:

Then it was onto Jake Plummer who could improvise a bit if the play broke down.

But, he too lacked an elite arm, so he too was a bust. It was only after 7 years of this failure that Shanahan admitted he was wrong, moved up in the draft and grabbed Jay Cutler.

Only he didn't have time to fix the defense before it fell apart on him and he got fired.

McDaniels has a LOT of work to do to prove that he's going to last longer than Wade Phillips (2 years).

Ravage!!!
01-18-2010, 06:57 PM
McDaniels has a LOT of work to do to prove that he's going to last longer than Wade Phillips (2 years).

Too bad Philllips wasn't fired in Dallas... looks like we could use a DC

broncofaninfla
01-18-2010, 07:03 PM
I'm going to have to "update" how I feel about this new regime after hearing Nolan jumped ship. Is it me or is there one common denominator in all of the BS our organization is going through. Hire Cowher and cut the kid loose, Mcd is clearly in over his head.

GEM
01-18-2010, 07:08 PM
:puke: That sums it up.

spikerman
01-18-2010, 09:45 PM
In response to the original question - ummmm not so good.

Overtime
01-18-2010, 11:31 PM
im starting to get fed up with this ******* circus that McDaniels is running, this shit is getting out of hand.

silkamilkamonico
01-18-2010, 11:33 PM
I'm glad you guys are just starting to realize this. This is the kind of garbage I saw coming when Elway retired.

Dreadnought
01-18-2010, 11:59 PM
I'm going to have to "update" how I feel about this new regime after hearing Nolan jumped ship. Is it me or is there one common denominator in all of the BS our organization is going through. Hire Cowher and cut the kid loose, Mcd is clearly in over his head.

Agreed - and time for some folks to reassess who the "bad guys" were in many of our "situations" this past season. As far as I'm concerned the Bad Guy is the one who is still pulling down a paycheck from Mr. Bowlen.

Ladies and gents, welcome to the land of NFL bottom feeders. I think I like Al Davis better than McD right about now.

Shazam!
01-19-2010, 12:08 AM
I am just so sick of the bitching, crying, whining, moaning, bickering and arguing of the past 4 Seasons from my fellow Broncos fans. That's what is more depressing to me than the state of the team.

NameUsedBefore
01-19-2010, 12:10 AM
Going down the tubes.

McDaniels "may" be a bright offensive coordinator, but his attitude and personality do not come across as head coach-material. I think I'd be a little more optimistic if it were not for the fact that this supposedly offensive-genius had some mediocre, predictable playcalling for pretty much the entire year.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/style_emoticons/default/whistlingW.gif

hamrob
01-19-2010, 12:35 AM
I think I'd grade out this regime at the C level right now. There's been some positives, and a few times where McDaniel's has stepped on his weenie.

He's a young guy - perhaps too young. He'll learn, perhaps quickly enough, perhaps not. I don't have a crystal ball.

I will say that who he chooses for Offensive Line Coach and Running Backs coach and who we draft this year will go a long ways towards us all getting a better idea if this regime has a bright future. With a year under his belt, this should be the offseason that we turn things in the right direction.

If we don't, then McDaniels has FAIL written all over him. Two years should be enough to turn around a fairly decent team that he inherited. C level my ass. You can't cause this much drama and lose while your at it and be satisfactory. Then you lose your D-coordinator...beacause why? No, he's below average at this point. He has one more season to turn it around or he's gone. Bowlen will have no other choice.

Dreadnought
01-19-2010, 12:39 AM
Going down the tubes.

McDaniels "may" be a bright offensive coordinator, but his attitude and personality do not come across as head coach-material. I think I'd be a little more optimistic if it were not for the fact that this supposedly offensive-genius had some mediocre, predictable playcalling for pretty much the entire year.

You can write this date down. NUB and Dreadnought in entire agreement on an issue, no qualifiers, no conditions.

Well said. he is not up to this job. Like the new manager of my closest McDonalds was not up to the job, and I stopped going there. Unfortunately, McDaniels didn't just screw up a fast food joint, he screwed up my Broncos, and I won't forgive him as easily for that. When McDonalds got screwed up I started going elsewhere, and thats not an option after all.

horsemeat
01-19-2010, 12:54 AM
At this point I still love McD and his philosophy, future with the new regime.


Dude your a tool! take off your orange glasses and learn about football. Your man crush on Orton and Mcd is :lol: