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View Full Version : Interesting comments from Woody Paige..



broncofaninfla
01-14-2010, 09:35 AM
From his mail bag......



Hi, Woody: I hate to say this, but the Broncos are a mess. I will hate to see Peyton Hillis let go. Josh McDaniels never gave him a chance, and we still don't know why. Here is my question: Can you see Shanny making a draft deal with the Broncos in which we get their No. 1 pick for Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler, and then give our No. 1 pick back to Chicago for Devin Hester and a combination of players or picks? It would NOT surprise me, either, if Shanny gives his No. 1 and No. 3 pick to the Bears for Jay Cutler. Thanks!
-- Sergio, Madison, Wis.
Sergio: If you hate to say something, don't say it. It's like "No offense, but . . ." Whenever you hear that phrase, you know you're about to be offended. As I keep writing, Hillis and Bobby Turner will end up in Washington with Shanahan. Why didn't Hillis get a chance? We'll probably never know. McDaniels even tried in his final press conference to make a joke (which was a cheap shot) about Hillis. "Hey, I played him against Philadelphia, and he didn't pick up the first down." Nice wisecrack, coach. Early in the year, when he tried Hillis on one third down at the 2, Hillis got in. He conveniently failed to mention that.
All I can tell you is what I think. Hillis fumbled a ball on a kickoff return early in the year. He was not returning the rest of the game. Hillis' grandmother died, and he left the team for several days and missed a game. You shouldn't be punished because a family member died.
Hillis, in McDaniels' mind, was merely a fourth-string running back and an adequate fullback in a system that rarely uses the fullback -- and never gives him or throws him the ball. If there is something else about Hillis, I don't know it.
He's smart. He knew the playbook. He was in shape. He is a good guy. He did rush for 100 yards in a game last year and did have 100 yards in receptions another game. He will get another chance, probably with Shanahan. He will be a quality player, not a star, in the NFL. I see no way Shanahan makes any kind of deal with McDaniels. I spent a little time with Mike the other night at his new restaurant. He doesn't care for McDaniels or the people with the Broncos any more. The question really is: Who do you think will get to the Super Bowl first, Shanahan or McDaniels?



Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14185638#ixzz0cb5Zqd4V (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14185638#ixzz0cb5Zqd4V)

yardog
01-14-2010, 09:45 AM
The question really is: Who do you think will get to the Super Bowl first, Shanahan or McDaniels?

I think it will be Shanahan. :tsk:

claymore
01-14-2010, 09:46 AM
:tsk:

NightTrainLayne
01-14-2010, 09:50 AM
Shanahan doesn't like the people that replaced him after he got fired.

Are we to be surprised by that?

It's also worth remembering that Hillis was way down on the depth chart for Shanahan too. It was only 6 other RB's going on IR that brought him onto the field.

Woody's very fond of Shanny and never liked the decision to let him go from the start. Every article or opinion piece he's written since has had that slant to it.

I'm a big Shanafan. I think he's a great coach, but Woody bringing his thoughts into the Broncos current coaching staff is very similar to so many of the posters around here that want to bring Cutler (good or bad) into every single conversation. Shanny's gone. Get over it Woody.

broncofaninfla
01-14-2010, 09:54 AM
The question really is: Who do you think will get to the Super Bowl first, Shanahan or McDaniels?

I think it will be Shanahan. :tsk:

I agree. I really get the feeling Shanahan is building something special in Washington. I think the firing renewed a passion in him that seemed to fade towards the end here at Denver. With Shanny going with a 3/4 D it shows me he actually sat back and re-evaluated himself and made changes he felt would be for the better. Visiting various camps around the league last year and intigrating some of what he liked to what he already was doing will probably pay off huge for the Skins. I'll take Shanahans offensive scheme over Mcd's any day. Mcd might be a good head coach one day but Shanahan is by far the better head coach at this point. These two franchizes seemed headed in different directions. Mcd said he would take a look at his ways as well and make changes accordingly so we'll see if that actually happens. I hope so, otherwise we'll be picking in the top 5 in the 2011 draft if we don't trade the pick away for a back up nickle back that is....

Ziggy
01-14-2010, 09:56 AM
Shanahan doesn't like the people that replaced him after he got fired.

Are we to be surprised by that?

It's also worth remembering that Hillis was way down on the depth chart for Shanahan too. It was only 6 other RB's going on IR that brought him onto the field.

Woody's very fond of Shanny and never liked the decision to let him go from the start. Every article or opinion piece he's written since has had that slant to it.

I'm a big Shanafan. I think he's a great coach, but Woody bringing his thoughts into the Broncos current coaching staff is very similar to so many of the posters around here that want to bring Cutler (good or bad) into every single conversation. Shanny's gone. Get over it Woody.

Now that's the best post about Hillis that I've seen the entire season. Right on the mark as usual NTL. I'm glad to see that a few other Shanahan fans can still give the new coach a chance.

Newsflash: It's ok to respect Shanahan and what he did for Denver, think he's a great coach, and still love the Broncos and support the coach that replaced him.

claymore
01-14-2010, 10:02 AM
Now that's the best post about Hillis that I've seen the entire season. Right on the mark as usual NTL. I'm glad to see that a few other Shanahan fans can still give the new coach a chance.

Newsflash: It's ok to respect Shanahan and what he did for Denver, think he's a great coach, and still love the Broncos and support the coach that replaced him.

Respect is earned.

Ziggy
01-14-2010, 10:04 AM
Respect is earned.

Where did I say to respect the new coach? I said support. Try it sometime. You might like it.

claymore
01-14-2010, 10:09 AM
Where did I say to respect the new coach? I said support. Try it sometime. You might like it.
Just made the statement. When JMCD accomplishes something I will support him.

Nomad
01-14-2010, 10:13 AM
Being the 'mastermind', it'll be interesting to see what Shanahan can do in Washington. Haslett pretty much has a solid defense to work with, so unlike his days at St Louis, he should do well as long as Shanahan leaves the defense alone!!

Ziggy
01-14-2010, 10:17 AM
Just made the statement. When JMCD accomplishes something I will support him.

That's your choice. My team is the Denver Broncos. They are owned by one of the best owners in all of sports. That owner hired this man to run my team. He became the coach of my team. Therefore, I support him. Just a choice, but then again I enjoy my team.

e-Lou-sive1
01-14-2010, 10:17 AM
This conversation is with Bryan Douglass - BroncosStable.com .Q and A with the Houston Texans (Battle Red Blog) article is" Straight from the horses mouth".
Denver is a maniac town,Just ponderous.There is a definitive generation split in my opinion,but after the last 12 months I would suggest more and more of the young ,more forgiving members of the bronco pulpit are turning in favor of the typical negativity put forth by old timers.Pick up the papers and you can't help but notice the negative tone about Josh,about the state of the team,about the direction of the team...and these days papers are published for old farts that walk out to the end of the driveway to find out what's going on beyond it.As I type these words the Dennison deal isn't done but once it is I can all but guarantee the heads of the(Denver) Post will be organizing a shopping spree for torches and pitchforks.

Zweems56
01-14-2010, 10:19 AM
Has Woody ever been anything more than a hack?

GEM
01-14-2010, 10:19 AM
I agree. I really get the feeling Shanahan is building something special in Washington. I think the firing renewed a passion in him that seemed to fade towards the end here at Denver. With Shanny going with a 3/4 D it shows me he actually sat back and re-evaluated himself and made changes he felt would be for the better. Visiting various camps around the league last year and intigrating some of what he liked to what he already was doing will probably pay off huge for the Skins. I'll take Shanahans offensive scheme over Mcd's any day. Mcd might be a good head coach one day but Shanahan is by far the better head coach at this point. These two franchizes seemed headed in different directions. Mcd said he would take a look at his ways as well and make changes accordingly so we'll see if that actually happens. I hope so, otherwise we'll be picking in the top 5 in the 2011 draft if we don't trade the pick away for a back up nickle back that is....

It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

claymore
01-14-2010, 10:24 AM
That's your choice. My team is the Denver Broncos. They are owned by one of the best owners in all of sports. That owner hired this man to run my team. He became the coach of my team. Therefore, I support him. Just a choice, but then again I enjoy my team.

Good for you. Here is your prize.

http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/2126/2780prize.jpg

claymore
01-14-2010, 10:26 AM
It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

I think the rest of woody's mailbag clears this up pretty well. Shannahan needed a break. He needed to step away. Im pretty sure he realizes the mistakes he made, but sometimess you are someplace so long, that you just cant see it till you walk away.

yardog
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

I agree with you on this Shanahan caused his own demise with his Def moves and hires. IMO McDaniels is doing the same thing on the other side of the ball.

Nomad
01-14-2010, 10:30 AM
I think the rest of woody's mailbag clears this up pretty well. Shannahan needed a break. He needed to step away. Im pretty sure he realizes the mistakes he made, but sometimess you are someplace so long, that you just cant see it till you walk away.

Just curious, I wonder why didn't he walk away and resign if he needed a break instead of getting fired.

claymore
01-14-2010, 10:47 AM
Just curious, I wonder why didn't he walk away and resign if he needed a break instead of getting fired.

He just didnt see it. Plus IMO... I think he was really on the right track again with the Goodmans and the drafts begining to look better and better.

Sundquist should be shouldering alot more blame than he gets. Our drafts really started to improve when he left.

As far as his refusal to fire Slowik thing.... I find it hard to believe that is or was the wwhole truth...

Ziggy
01-14-2010, 10:52 AM
Good for you. Here is your prize.

http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/2126/2780prize.jpg

Thank you. Enjoy being miserable and spending 90% of your time on this forum whining. It suits you well.

Nomad
01-14-2010, 10:53 AM
He just didnt see it. Plus IMO... I think he was really on the right track again with the Goodmans and the drafts begining to look better and better.

Sundquist should be shouldering alot more blame than he gets. Our drafts really started to improve when he left.

As far as his refusal to fire Slowik thing.... I find it hard to believe that is or was the wwhole truth...

Fair enough! I'm sure Mr Bowlen, on top of the Slowik thing, had his reasons he fired Shanahan and I'm sure one of the top reasons is taking away some of his power!!

GEM
01-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Alright guys, let's not get personal in here. Keep it to the topic and not each other.

Ravage!!!
01-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Not to mention money.

I think CLaymore is right, its hard to see the trees when you are in the forest.

But when you have a ton of money on the contract, you don't just step away. If you resign, you give up those MILLIONS of dollars. If you are fired, then you don't.

I don't think Shanahan "bailed" on the team. I think he was making an offense that could have easily hung with the very best in the NFL. The Goodmans were helping ot make some fantastic drafts, and things were going in the right direction. I don't think SLowik as the final was THE reason, BUT.... I think if it was a refusal to fire him, it had to do with a power struggle. Meaning Shanahan was hired and given the power to hire/fire whom he pleased and wanted for his staff. If Bowlen said "I want him fired"... Shanahan may have very well put up his walls because he felt that Bowlen overstepped the lines between their contractual agreement.

Either way.. I think Shanahan is making good moves.... just as he did when first coming to Denver. Just as he was at the END of his Denver tenure. I don't necessary believe the 3-4 is better, and tahts the way to go. But its interesting.

rationalfan
01-14-2010, 11:01 AM
i'm sure everyone on here has great "sources," right? it reads like speculation and opinion, which is fine. but it's tiresome that opinion is presented as fact.

back to an earlier question: who gets to the super bowl first, shanny or mcD?

don't know. but it's hard to ignore the fact that no super bowl winning coach has ever won the big game after a time away from coaching.

Ravage!!!
01-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Fair enough! I'm sure Mr Bowlen, on top of the Slowik thing, had his reasons he fired Shanahan and I'm sure one of the top reasons is taking away some of his power!!

Then turns around and gives the same power to a brand new coach. I still don't understand that.

Ravage!!!
01-14-2010, 11:03 AM
don't know. but it's hard to ignore the fact that no super bowl winning coach has ever won the big game after a time away from coaching.

How many have been away? Vermeil went to the Super Bowl, was gone for a long time, came back and then won.

Shanahan is still young and wasn't away very long. Not even long enough to consider away.

red98
01-14-2010, 11:05 AM
Shanahan doesn't like the people that replaced him after he got fired.

Are we to be surprised by that?

It's also worth remembering that Hillis was way down on the depth chart for Shanahan too. It was only 6 other RB's going on IR that brought him onto the field.

Woody's very fond of Shanny and never liked the decision to let him go from the start. Every article or opinion piece he's written since has had that slant to it.

I'm a big Shanafan. I think he's a great coach, but Woody bringing his thoughts into the Broncos current coaching staff is very similar to so many of the posters around here that want to bring Cutler (good or bad) into every single conversation. Shanny's gone. Get over it Woody.



Woody in the same article/mailbag:


I was the most vehement person in the media saying before and during the season, and just prior to and after the San Diego finale, that it was time for Mike to move on. I was as surprised as anyone when Bowlen fired him. But I genuinely still believe that it was time for Mike and the Broncos to go in another direction.

Nomad
01-14-2010, 11:05 AM
Then turns around and gives the same power to a brand new coach. I still don't understand that.

:whoknows: we could speculate it to death, which has already been done last year, or just blame Slowik!!:lol:

Dreadnought
01-14-2010, 11:17 AM
:whoknows: we could speculate it to death, which has already been done last year, or just blame Slowik!!:lol:

It was Slowick, no doubt. I believe firing Shanahan was a catastrophe. After one year I am even more convinced of it than ever - but his stubborn refusal to fire that imbecile forced Bowlens hand. Then Bowlen made what I thought was an intelligent gamble on McDaniels - but sometimes gambles don't pay off. I don't think this one did

broncofaninfla
01-14-2010, 11:21 AM
It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

I agree, I wish he would have made the changes here, he didn't and now we have Mcd. It took a change to make Shanny wise up and now Shanny gets to show if he learned from it or not. Mcd finally admitted mistakes on his end as well and said he would makes changes accordingly, we'll see. As for the 2009 Broncos I wasn't impressed at all with Mcd's scheme's on offense and a outward appearence of preference of his guys over shanny's guys. His "team first" team he fielded against KC on the last game of the year was horrible and even appeared to lay down further strengthening rumors of division in the lockeroom. It's a forum, I'll sound off when I disagree with Mcd and praise him when it works. I am first and foremost a Broncos fan but I'll be keeping my eye on Shanny in Washington.

claymore
01-14-2010, 11:23 AM
It was Slowick, no doubt. I believe firing Shanahan was a catasrophe. After one year I am even more convinced of it than ever - but his stubborn refusal to fire that imbecile forced Bowlens hand. The Bowlen made what I thought was an intelligent gamble on McDaniels - but sometimes gambles don't pay off. I don't think this one did

That could have been the agreed upon excuse. I just cant fathom Shanahan wanting to keep Slowik. Nor fighting to keep him and losing his job over it. He was loyal if you were seuccessful for him. But not if you were a turd. Unless your last name was Jackson.

NightTrainLayne
01-14-2010, 11:28 AM
Woody in the same article/mailbag:

This is Woody on Mar. 1 2009 BEFORE Cutler was traded:


Broncos blow call on Cutler fiasco

The Broncos have lost quarterback Jay Cutler.

If Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders were thinking, even for a microsecond, about trading Jay Cutler, both must be fired today by Pat Bowlen. If the Broncos' owner was a co-conspirator in such a preposterous, outrageous thought, he should fire himself.

Do not suffer the fools gladly. They obviously know not what they do.

The Broncos' new hierarchy has lost Cutler's respect, his excitement about free agents just signed, his enthusiasm for a restructured offense and a totally retooled defense, his commitment to the team, his determination to make the Broncos a power again in the NFL and his efforts to prove his value. He has lost the certainty of being in Denver.

"I'm upset. I mean, I'm really shocked at this point," Cutler told The Post's Mike Klis on Saturday afternoon. The quarterback then said he didn't think the matter was settled, and he could still be traded.

The Pro Bowl quarterback wasn't any more stunned than everyone else in Colorado and throughout the nation when it was reported Saturday that his name was mentioned prominently — front and center — in a trade involving the Tampa Bay Bucs, the New England Patriots, the Detroit Lions, No. 1 draft choices and Matt Cassel.

The last time we heard of such an extreme, ludicrous deal, the Broncos got John Elway for a No. 1 draft pick, a reserve quarterback and three exhibition games between Denver and Baltimore. (Really). But the Broncos were on the right side then.

This is the wrong message, wrong time, wrong thought, wrong men at the wheel.

McDaniels admitted the Broncos have been approached about trading Cutler, but said the quarterback was "not the only person in the last few days we've received calls on." We don't care if somebody called about a backup defensive end.

All the new coach should have said was: "We were asked about Cutler. We responded that under no conditions, in no uncertain terms, would we even ever talk about trading Cutler."

Maybe there is, after all, a problem with being a young, inexperienced head coach.

Or maybe McDaniels was contemplating a trade of Cutler for Cassel, who had a very good year with the New Eng- land Patriots, but could be a one-year wonder.

If the Patriots had talked about Tom Brady for Cutler, well . . . but there would be no reason for the Broncos to talk to Tampa Bay about anything. And if the Detroit Lions wanted to talk about giving up their entire draft, including the No. 1 pick, for Cutler, then you listen.

And where is the new general manager — reading his X-files? Xanders, who has been slow to figure out his job, should have been on the phones Saturday afternoon to The Post denying that the Broncos would ever think about trading Cutler, and on the phone to Cutler apologizing for any misconceptions and begging for forgiveness. But the X-Man's on-the-job training apparently didn't prepare him for complicated situations.

And what did Bowlen know and when? The owner claims the responsibility for the Broncos runs to the top. He should have been providing explanations, not hiding behind a desk like Nixon.

This is a total mucked-up mess, and the Broncos' brass didn't know how to handle it.

Oh, it can and should be said that Cutler is a petulant sort who pouts when he doesn't get his way — on the field and in the community, and he can be a lout. He has to realize this is the NFL, and stuff will happen. He was all hot and bothered when Mike Shanahan and his guide, Jeremy Bates, were flipped aside for McDaniels and The Brave New Direction. But Cutler supposedly got over it and moved on. Peyton Manning will be playing for his third coach. Joe Montana was kicked out the door. Hall of Fame quarterbacks have been traded.

Then, there was the matter of Elway. After the '91 season, then-coach Dan Reeves wanted to get rid of Elway. He told me and others that Elway couldn't or wouldn't read defenses and couldn't or wouldn't win a Super Bowl.

Elway and Reeves weren't on the same page, not in the same universe. They barely coexisted.

A deal with the Redskins fell through during the summer. Bowlen chose Elway over Reeves and fired the coach. Elway eventually won two Super Bowls.

Cutler is in Elway's shadow, but not in his standing yet, and likely will never be. Defensive backs and his ego get in the way of too many of Cutler's passes. But he is a quality young quarterback and the class of 2006. Rather have Vince Young or Matt Leinart now? And Cassel is a sand castle in comparison.

Cutler shouldn't be traded. When somebody calls about Jay, Kid Mac or the X-Man should hang up.

And the face of your franchise should not be treated like ground beef. McDaniels, who must be running the team, not Xanders or Bowlen, should have gone to Cutler's house and said: "Jay, Tampa Bay, Detroit and New England came to us, and I told them to go spit in their helmets. You're my guy."

Or maybe McDaniels was lying when he told me: "I hope Jay is as excited about playing for me as I am excited about having him as my quarterback."

McDaniels must get this predicament settled today. We don't really care if the Broncos signed a couple of backup running backs and a veteran (maybe too veteran) safety with a proud past and a — be still, our hearts — a long snapper to a three-year contract. This team starts and stops with Cutler.

What were they thinking? They weren't thinking. The Broncos need to go find Jay Cutler.

He's had it in for Josh McDaniels since the beginning.

He has always been a friend of Shanny. Still is. In the same mail-bag column he mentions having dinner with Shanny and Shanny opening up about how much he's learned since being let go (including such land-marks as learning how to balance a check-book and text-messaging).

His acknowledgement that Shanny had lost sight of the trees becuase he'd been in the forrest too long is hardly akin to the posse he's tried to round up against Josh McDaniels since day one.

NightTrainLayne
01-14-2010, 11:33 AM
It was Slowick, no doubt. I believe firing Shanahan was a catasrophe. After one year I am even more convinced of it than ever - but his stubborn refusal to fire that imbecile forced Bowlens hand. The Bowlen made what I thought was an intelligent gamble on McDaniels - but sometimes gambles don't pay off. I don't think this one did

I think that's a very good way to put it. Just about all hirings are gambles of one degree or another.

This next season will really show us what we've got. McD will have had two off-seasons to get his players and scheme together.

Hopefully, he's learned a lot after his first season. If he hasn't, then as I've said from day one, "Pat Bowlen is not a guy who will be wrong for long". Pat will pull the plug on Josh if he's not the right guy, and I trust Pat to make that decision when he knows the time has come to make it.

We are blessed to be fans of a team with one of the best owner's in the league. He'll take care of us.

red98
01-14-2010, 11:33 AM
He does sound like he hates McD, I just thought it was funny that you said he was against firing Shanny and in the same article he reiterates that he supported and still supports the firing.

NightTrainLayne
01-14-2010, 11:36 AM
He does sound like he hates McD, I just thought it was funny that you said he was against firing Shanny and in the same article he reiterates that he supported and still supports the firing.

I honestly don't remember him calling for Shanny's firing beforehand. He must have, but not to the degree that he did McDaniel's. . .less than 60 days into McD's reign.

red98
01-14-2010, 11:38 AM
I honestly don't remember him calling for Shanny's firing beforehand. He must have, but not to the degree that he did McDaniel's. . .less than 60 days into McD's reign.

Woody is a bit of a drama queen :D

claymore
01-14-2010, 11:41 AM
I honestly don't remember him calling for Shanny's firing beforehand. He must have, but not to the degree that he did McDaniel's. . .less than 60 days into McD's reign.

:look:

Ravage!!!
01-14-2010, 01:02 PM
He's supposed to be drama... its called sensationalism, and its meant to get reaction from fans.... usually "you suck woody" reactions. Why? Because people love to hate. People LOVE to read articles on people they despise and disagree with, because they WANT to have something to disagree with.

Lonestar
01-14-2010, 01:19 PM
Sorry have not read much of the thread so if I repeat someone sorry about that.

I'll give mike minus 3 years to trash the very good D that WAS had because total neglect in the draft and by bring in aging vets to man it instead of investing in quality draft choices.

Money can't buy everything.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

PS I've know three woodies in my lifetime.. my own with which I have spent numerous hours introducing to the opposite sex, a husband of a coworker and this total dick.. I stopped reading his trash years ago and spend as much time trying not to read them on this forum.

56crash
01-14-2010, 01:23 PM
It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

Pat never said this at the presser to let Shanahan Go . Sorry your post is filled with total Fail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is one of the hardest thing I have ever had to do is let him go. does that sound like Pat thought Shanahan was doing a bad job ?

G_Money
01-14-2010, 01:29 PM
It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

He's still bringing Slowik in to coach the DBs. :rolleyes: If he'd hired Nolan and demoted Slowik to DB coach here we'd be in the playoffs.

It's really too bad that Shanahan couldn't see how utterly destructive Slowik was to everything he was trying to build. I hope he's re-energized in DC, and that he can keep his nepotism under control.

But it doesn't help me now. Now I need McDaniels to control his own nepotism and favoritism, draft and sign FAs like a mad genius, and tweak his offense to be more than "toss the ball on a screen or 3 yards in the flat, or hit the guard/center gap on a run for the 20th time today."

Or he'll be on the street even WITH a good DC working for him, and we'll be starting over again.

~G

Northman
01-14-2010, 01:34 PM
Shanahan doesn't like the people that replaced him after he got fired.

Are we to be surprised by that?

It's also worth remembering that Hillis was way down on the depth chart for Shanahan too. It was only 6 other RB's going on IR that brought him onto the field.

Woody's very fond of Shanny and never liked the decision to let him go from the start. Every article or opinion piece he's written since has had that slant to it.

I'm a big Shanafan. I think he's a great coach, but Woody bringing his thoughts into the Broncos current coaching staff is very similar to so many of the posters around here that want to bring Cutler (good or bad) into every single conversation. Shanny's gone. Get over it Woody.

End thread.

Northman
01-14-2010, 01:36 PM
With Shanny going with a 3/4 D it shows me he actually sat back and re-evaluated himself and made changes he felt would be for the better. Visiting various camps around the league last year and intigrating some of what he liked to what he already was doing will probably pay off huge for the Skins.

Its amazing it only took him 7 years to realize this. Had he done some re-evaluating way back when he would still be the Broncos head coach methinks.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-14-2010, 01:37 PM
It's just too bad Shanny didn't attempt to build that special thing here. He wouldn't let go of Slowik here and what do ya know out in Washington...he gets a DC that could be worth a shit. So I don't want to hear about the whining of what he's building there.....he didn't even attempt to build it here. Shanny was his own worst enemy and he didn't need a whole lot of help.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/13/AR2010011300289.html?sub=AR

Shanahan is also working on putting together the rest of his staff. Longtime assistant Bob Slowik -- who served as Shanahan's defensive coordinator in Denver in 2008 and as a defensive assistant with the Broncos from 2005 to '07 -- is expected to have a position on the staff, according to an NFL source. Slowik was previously a defensive coordinator in Green Bay (2004), Cleveland (1999) and Chicago (1998) and has coached defensive backs throughout his career.

Dreadnought
01-14-2010, 01:42 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/13/AR2010011300289.html?sub=AR

Shanahan is also working on putting together the rest of his staff. Longtime assistant Bob Slowik -- who served as Shanahan's defensive coordinator in Denver in 2008 and as a defensive assistant with the Broncos from 2005 to '07 -- is expected to have a position on the staff, according to an NFL source. Slowik was previously a defensive coordinator in Green Bay (2004), Cleveland (1999) and Chicago (1998) and has coached defensive backs throughout his career.

Sometimes I swear Slowick must have nekkid pics of Shanahan in an awkward circumstance or something. He ought to be unemployable in this League. Incredible.

G_Money
01-14-2010, 01:46 PM
He and Shanny were friends in college, weren't they? You know what shenanigans college kids get into.

Those pics of Mike slamming Wild Turkey and fornicating with the mascot have come in PRETTY handy over the years, methinks...

~G

red98
01-14-2010, 01:47 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/13/AR2010011300289.html?sub=AR

Shanahan is also working on putting together the rest of his staff. Longtime assistant Bob Slowik -- who served as Shanahan's defensive coordinator in Denver in 2008 and as a defensive assistant with the Broncos from 2005 to '07 -- is expected to have a position on the staff, according to an NFL source. Slowik was previously a defensive coordinator in Green Bay (2004), Cleveland (1999) and Chicago (1998) and has coached defensive backs throughout his career.

Uhg, this just reminds me of what a fail Slowit has been as a DC.

4 teams, 1 yr each.

I think each coach was fired afterwards as well, but not sure.

Shanny's love affair with this guy is the most perplexing thing about his career here, even more so than the Clarret pick.

Dreadnought
01-14-2010, 01:49 PM
Uhg, this just reminds me of what a fail Slowit has been as a DC.

4 teams, 1 yr each.

I think each coach was fired afterwards as well, but not sure.

Shanny's love affair with this guy is the most perplexing thing about his career here, even more so than the Clarret pick.

Agreed - and why I think there was no choice but to fire him, even though I think the results have been terrible. He really left Bowlen no alternative

claymore
01-14-2010, 01:49 PM
Sorry have not read mucj of the thread so if I repeat someone sorry abouit that.

I'll give mike minus 3 years to trash the very good D that WAS had because total neglect in the draft and by bring in aging vets to man it instead of investing in quality draft choices.

Money can't buy everything.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Yeah, nobody came close to saying that.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jo0rv-fSdsI/SVwMXuUVr7I/AAAAAAAABmE/JJoxZc05_cA/s400/mikeshanahansuperbowltrophy.jpg

Denver Native (Carol)
01-14-2010, 01:52 PM
Pat never said this at the presser to let Shanahan Go . Sorry your post is filled with total Fail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is one of the hardest thing I have ever had to do is let him go. does that sound like Pat thought Shanahan was doing a bad job ?

Really - GEM's post is filled with total fail, when she mentions Slowik - guess this ESPN article is filled with total fail also :tsk:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3800768

It's not clear how it contributed to his firing, but the Rocky Mountain News reported on Tuesday night that Bowlen asked Shanahan to make another change at defensive coordinator -- this time cutting loose Bob Slowik. Shanahan reportedly refused. He had said after Sunday's loss that he would not fire another defensive coordinator.

Lonestar
01-14-2010, 01:59 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/13/AR2010011300289.html?sub=AR

Shanahan is also working on putting together the rest of his staff. Longtime assistant Bob Slowik -- who served as Shanahan's defensive coordinator in Denver in 2008 and as a defensive assistant with the Broncos from 2005 to '07 -- is expected to have a position on the staff, according to an NFL source. Slowik was previously a defensive coordinator in Green Bay (2004), Cleveland (1999) and Chicago (1998) and has coached defensive backs throughout his career.

could not find a vomit smilies so this will have to do :BARF:

topscribe
01-14-2010, 02:06 PM
Shanahan doesn't like the people that replaced him after he got fired.

Are we to be surprised by that?

It's also worth remembering that Hillis was way down on the depth chart for Shanahan too. It was only 6 other RB's going on IR that brought him onto the field.

Woody's very fond of Shanny and never liked the decision to let him go from the start. Every article or opinion piece he's written since has had that slant to it.

I'm a big Shanafan. I think he's a great coach, but Woody bringing his thoughts into the Broncos current coaching staff is very similar to so many of the posters around here that want to bring Cutler (good or bad) into every single conversation. Shanny's gone. Get over it Woody.

Thank you. Woody hasn't liked McDaniels or Orton from the time either
stepped off the plane. He has made that obvious. He's got to be the darling
of several posters here . . .

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
01-14-2010, 02:06 PM
http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Redskins_Defense/735000

Bob Slowik is expected to be part of the Redskins' coaching staff under Mike Shanahan, but not the defensive coordinator. Thank goodness. Shanahan let Slowik coordinate his Denver defense in 2008, and the club finished 29th in total defense, 30th in points allowed, and 27th against the run

topscribe
01-14-2010, 02:07 PM
could not find a vomit smilies so this will have to do :BARF:

Here: http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thsick.gif



:D



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WARHORSE
01-14-2010, 03:14 PM
Well..........Im wondering what Shanahan thinks of Woody telling everyone that he doesnt like McDaniels or anyone in Denver anymore.


As for trading with Washington, lets just give the big wigs the benefit of the doubt. Im gonna assume that if we were willing to deal with the Raidumps.........we will be willing to deal with the Skins. Snyder likes Bowlen
and vice versa.


This is a business, and good business people make good business decisions.

GEM
01-14-2010, 03:30 PM
Pat never said this at the presser to let Shanahan Go . Sorry your post is filled with total Fail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is one of the hardest thing I have ever had to do is let him go. does that sound like Pat thought Shanahan was doing a bad job ?

Where did I quote Bowlen? I mean show me one spot in my post where I use quotes or say that Bowlen said that word for word? :confused:

You don't let someone go if they're doing a good job. Ya just don't. That's why we haven't had a coach carousel here in Denver. I am not taking anything away from Shanny, I loved him. BUT he had lost touch. He didn't have a good product on the field and because of this, Bowlen found it was time for change.

Lonestar
01-14-2010, 03:30 PM
Well..........Im wondering what Shanahan thinks of Woody telling everyone that he doesnt like McDaniels or anyone in Denver anymore.


As for trading with Washington, lets just give the big wigs the benefit of the doubt. Im gonna assume that if we were willing to deal with the Raidumps.........we will be willing to deal with the Skins. Snyder likes Bowlen
and vice versa.


This is a business, and good business people make good business decisions.


I say that comment also meant to comment on it. I guess the little general is indeed unhappy that the new little guy totaly overhauled "his" team and did not fall flat on his face.
Yes I know there was an epic collapse in the final half of the season. but at least we (most) have some hope of good things to come.

Unlike if mike had stayed with a total lack of D AGAIN.

topscribe
01-14-2010, 03:40 PM
Where did I quote Bowlen? I mean show me one spot in my post where I use quotes or say that Bowlen said that word for word? :confused:

You don't let someone go if they're doing a good job. Ya just don't. That's why we haven't had a coach carousel here in Denver. I am not taking anything away from Shanny, I loved him. BUT he had lost touch. He didn't have a good product on the field and because of this, Bowlen found it was time for change.

Frankly, I was upset with Shanny's dismissal.

Not any more . . .

-----

Lonestar
01-14-2010, 03:50 PM
Frankly, I was upset with Shanny's dismissal.

Not any more . . .

-----

I was shocked when it happened, but only because it had not happened long before he should have been fired as GM a decade ago.

GEM
01-14-2010, 04:01 PM
Frankly, I was upset with Shanny's dismissal.

Not any more . . .

-----

It was like losing a family member! I hated it at the time, though I was so pissed off at the time that I understood. I wish him well and the jist of my original post was.....DAMN IT MIKE! Why couldn't you have just done the things you are doing now then?

It was weird I was talking to someone on another site that is not football related and they are from Denver and we started talking Broncos and they asked what I thought for the future. They asked if I thought Shanny would be gone and I said no way, Bowlen is married to the guy. 5 minutes later the news broke that Bowlen had let him go. :yardog:

BroncoNut
01-14-2010, 04:14 PM
Shanahan doesn't like the people that replaced him after he got fired.

Are we to be surprised by that?

It's also worth remembering that Hillis was way down on the depth chart for Shanahan too. It was only 6 other RB's going on IR that brought him onto the field.

Woody's very fond of Shanny and never liked the decision to let him go from the start. Every article or opinion piece he's written since has had that slant to it.

I'm a big Shanafan. I think he's a great coach, but Woody bringing his thoughts into the Broncos current coaching staff is very similar to so many of the posters around here that want to bring Cutler (good or bad) into every single conversation. Shanny's gone. Get over it Woody.


Good post, but it will be interesting to see what he does the first year in Washington. Snyder got himself a good coach there. It'll be interesting to see the effects. I'm betting that things pick up for the burgundy and gold over the next few years.

NightTrainLayne
01-14-2010, 04:49 PM
Good post, but it will be interesting to see what he does the first year in Washington. Snyder got himself a good coach there. It'll be interesting to see the effects. I'm betting that things pick up for the burgundy and gold over the next few years.

No doubt they will. Even the version of Shanahan that got fired here would be a big step up from what they've had the past couple of years.

But this new, re-invented Shanahan that hires a good DC right off the bat, and seems to have learned a few things during his time off. . .. he just might take the 'skins back to glory.

Northman
01-14-2010, 04:52 PM
Shanny will have his work cut out for him. It aint like he is playing in the AFC west anymore with cellar dwellars like KC and Oakland anymore.

BroncoNut
01-14-2010, 04:55 PM
No doubt they will. Even the version of Shanahan that got fired here would be a big step up from what they've had the past couple of years.

But this new, re-invented Shanahan that hires a good DC right off the bat, and seems to have learned a few things during his time off. . .. he just might take the 'skins back to glory.

not to pull a Zam, but I said it before, his departure as head coach of the Denver Broncos was good for BOTH SIDES!!!!!!!! But no, crackpot nut doesn't know what he's talking about does he?

Well, actuallly time will tell, but .... I foresee Mr. Shanahan getting out of a funk he was in when excused from Denver.

topscribe
01-14-2010, 06:15 PM
not to pull a Zam, but I said it before, his departure as head coach of the Denver Broncos was good for BOTH SIDES!!!!!!!! But no, crackpot nut doesn't know what he's talking about does he?

Well, actuallly time will tell, but .... I foresee Mr. Shanahan getting out of a funk he was in when excused from Denver.

I have to agree. Shanny said in one interview that he has had a chance this
year to stop and take a look. I believe both sides are better off for it. I just
hope his friendship with Mr. Bowlen is still intact . . .

-----

Dean
01-14-2010, 08:36 PM
I say that comment also meant to comment on it. I guess the little general is indeed unhappy that the new little guy totaly overhauled "his" team and did not fall flat on his face.
Yes I know there was an epic collapse in the final half of the season. but at least we (most) have some hope of good things to come.

Unlike if mike had stayed with a total lack of D AGAIN.


First, you post this and then immediately follow it with this post.
:confused:


I was shocked when it happened, but only because it had not happened long before he should have been fired as GM a decade ago.

Shocked??? I think the word that you might be looking for is elated rather than shocked.

Medford Bronco
01-14-2010, 09:25 PM
Shanny will have his work cut out for him. It aint like he is playing in the AFC west anymore with cellar dwellars like KC and Oakland anymore.

True but back in the Day when Denver did win Super Bowls the division was much better with KC actually winning the division in 1997.

He has to adjust to the 2010 NFL though if he wants to have success.

I wish him well, without Shanny we most likely never win a Super Bowl.

Superchop 7
01-14-2010, 10:14 PM
Haslett ?

Well.......

Josh smoked him in the "D C-ord" hiring.........

Here's the deal.....

I have no idea how this guy got the job.

gregbroncs
01-15-2010, 02:06 AM
Not to mention money.

I think CLaymore is right, its hard to see the trees when you are in the forest.

But when you have a ton of money on the contract, you don't just step away. If you resign, you give up those MILLIONS of dollars. If you are fired, then you don't.

I don't think Shanahan "bailed" on the team. I think he was making an offense that could have easily hung with the very best in the NFL. The Goodmans were helping ot make some fantastic drafts, and things were going in the right direction. I don't think SLowik as the final was THE reason, BUT.... I think if it was a refusal to fire him, it had to do with a power struggle. Meaning Shanahan was hired and given the power to hire/fire whom he pleased and wanted for his staff. If Bowlen said "I want him fired"... Shanahan may have very well put up his walls because he felt that Bowlen overstepped the lines between their contractual agreement.

Either way.. I think Shanahan is making good moves.... just as he did when first coming to Denver. Just as he was at the END of his Denver tenure. I don't necessary believe the 3-4 is better, and tahts the way to go. But its interesting.We heard this every year for 10 years. It's getting better. He's making moves to improve. He fired the DC because he could not cut it. Blah Blah Blah. Shanahan needed to be fired 3 years before Bowlen finally pulled the trigger.

Shanahan was a pathetic GM and a great coach. As long as Washington does not give him too much power in personnel decisions they get a very good coach that should be good for them.

Northman
01-15-2010, 07:36 AM
True but back in the Day when Denver did win Super Bowls the division was much better with KC actually winning the division in 1997.

He has to adjust to the 2010 NFL though if he wants to have success.

I wish him well, without Shanny we most likely never win a Super Bowl.

Im torn, i like Shanahan however i hate the foreskins. I just cant see myself wanting them to succeed. I was hoping Shanny would go to the Cowboys but tubby boy managed make the playoffs.

Dirk
01-15-2010, 08:27 AM
Im torn, i like Shanahan however i hate the foreskins. I just cant see myself wanting them to succeed. I was hoping Shanny would go to the Cowboys but tubby boy managed make the playoffs.

Yeah it's tough for me too. I can't stand the Skins but I will be watching them just to see Shanny on the sidelines and to see how he has changed after refueling.

claymore
01-15-2010, 08:30 AM
Yeah it's tough for me too. I can't stand the Skins but I will be watching them just to see Shanny on the sidelines and to see how he has changed after refueling.

If he and Cutler have a great 2010, its going to be a blood bath in Bronco land. Especially if JMCD shits the bed again.

Nomad
01-15-2010, 08:36 AM
If he and Cutler have a great 2010, its going to be a blood bath in Bronco land. Especially if JMCD shits the bed again.

Only for the ones that belong to the cheese and whine club and can't move forward!!!

Dirk
01-15-2010, 09:04 AM
If he and Cutler have a great 2010, its going to be a blood bath in Bronco land. Especially if JMCD shits the bed again.

It doesn't matter to me if Shanny and Cutty have great years or not.

I bleed Orange and Blue.

Shanny lost his "edge" and drive IMO and needed the time off to re-energize and get his mojo back. Good for him!

Cutler didn't want to be in Denver so if he succeeds in Chi-town then good for him!

I am optimistic for the Broncos moving in the right direction. I love the idea of a smash mouth team. Once McD gets all the right pieces in place the Broncos will own the AFCW and all teams will dread playing the Broncos in Denver again and when the Broncos go on the road, other teams will have to prepare extra hard for a chance to beat them!

claymore
01-15-2010, 09:38 AM
It doesn't matter to me if Shanny and Cutty have great years or not.

I bleed Orange and Blue.

Shanny lost his "edge" and drive IMO and needed the time off to re-energize and get his mojo back. Good for him!

Cutler didn't want to be in Denver so if he succeeds in Chi-town then good for him!

I am optimistic for the Broncos moving in the right direction. I love the idea of a smash mouth team. Once McD gets all the right pieces in place the Broncos will own the AFCW and all teams will dread playing the Broncos in Denver again and when the Broncos go on the road, other teams will have to prepare extra hard for a chance to beat them!

Cutler didnt want to be in Denver after meeting McDaniels. Same can be said for a few other players. I think we are still moving backwards. The slide will stop eventually. Either with this coach or another.

Dirk
01-15-2010, 09:44 AM
Changing the philosphy of an entire team does take time. Going from a finese team to a bigger and stronger team wasn't going to happen in one season.

claymore
01-15-2010, 09:59 AM
Changing the philosphy of an entire team does take time. Going from a finese team to a bigger and stronger team wasn't going to happen in one season.

I completley disagree with everything you guys see as a positive. But im trying to get past arguing about it. So, im not going to.

rcsodak
01-15-2010, 10:12 AM
I agree with you on this Shanahan caused his own demise with his Def moves and hires. IMO McDaniels is doing the same thing on the other side of the ball.

Shanny had umpteen years to improve.

McD had 6mos.

Ya'll need to take a pill. :coffee:

Dirk
01-15-2010, 10:12 AM
I completley disagree with everything you guys see as a positive. But im trying to get past arguing about it. So, im not going to.


I'm not arguing, I'm just happy that the offseason is upon us and anxious to see what moves, signings and changes are on the horizon. All for the better I am hoping!! :salute:

claymore
01-15-2010, 10:14 AM
I'm not arguing, I'm just happy that the offseason is upon us and anxious to see what moves, signings and changes are on the horizon. All for the better I am hoping!! :salute:

Its me. I will argue all day. I see no positives. So I just need to wait to be wrong, or everyone else to join me by giving McD the finger.

rcsodak
01-15-2010, 10:16 AM
He just didnt see it. Plus IMO... I think he was really on the right track again with the Goodmans and the drafts begining to look better and better.

Sundquist should be shouldering alot more blame than he gets. Our drafts really started to improve when he left.

As far as his refusal to fire Slowik thing.... I find it hard to believe that is or was the wwhole truth...

The goodmans were involved in the draft how long?

How many picks did they 'supposedly' hit on?

I'll take somebody proving over a 5-10yr span that they know what they hell they're doing.

For all you know, they were merely puppets, as was sunny.

rcsodak
01-15-2010, 10:23 AM
Not to mention money.

I think CLaymore is right, its hard to see the trees when you are in the forest.

But when you have a ton of money on the contract, you don't just step away. If you resign, you give up those MILLIONS of dollars. If you are fired, then you don't.

I don't think Shanahan "bailed" on the team. I think he was making an offense that could have easily hung with the very best in the NFL. The Goodmans were helping ot make some fantastic drafts, and things were going in the right direction. I don't think SLowik as the final was THE reason, BUT.... I think if it was a refusal to fire him, it had to do with a power struggle. Meaning Shanahan was hired and given the power to hire/fire whom he pleased and wanted for his staff. If Bowlen said "I want him fired"... Shanahan may have very well put up his walls because he felt that Bowlen overstepped the lines between their contractual agreement.

Either way.. I think Shanahan is making good moves.... just as he did when first coming to Denver. Just as he was at the END of his Denver tenure. I don't necessary believe the 3-4 is better, and tahts the way to go. But its interesting.

LMMFAO!

An owner "overstepping the lines"?

What country is this, again?

:tsk:

claymore
01-15-2010, 10:23 AM
The goodmans were involved in the draft how long?

How many picks did they 'supposedly' hit on?

I'll take somebody proving over a 5-10yr span that they know what they hell they're doing.

For all you know, they were merely puppets, as was sunny.

They hit on Cutler, Marshall, doom, Royal, Clady. They were in it for a couple years. And they did damn good.

Even if you hate Cutler, he got us twice what we paid for him. So will Marshall, and doom.

claymore
01-15-2010, 10:25 AM
LMMFAO!

An owner "overstepping the lines"?

What country is this, again?

:tsk:

If he didnt, he wouldnt be paying Shanny millions till the end of Shanny's contract.

Its America, not the Soviet Union.

Dirk
01-15-2010, 10:26 AM
I don't see Doom going anywhere. He is a "team" guy and a solid player. As far as BMarsh goes, I see him leaving because he clashes with the philosophy that McD is trying to put in place.

Nomad
01-15-2010, 11:02 AM
I completley disagree with everything you guys see as a positive. But im trying to get past arguing about it. So, im not going to.

I was never sold on Cutler and was very critical of him when he played here and how he handle the hiring of McDaniels so I never argue on his behalf. What the BRONCOS do is out of my control so I won't sit here trying to prove the 'what if's'. All we can do is hope McDaniel's knows what he is doing. I believe one season isn't enough but this offseason and 2010 season, if he doesn't begin to fix the problem and we're in the same situation at the end of the season as the last 3/4 years, excuses will get old and then will I question his ability!!

Ravage!!!
01-15-2010, 11:27 AM
LMMFAO!

An owner "overstepping the lines"?

What country is this, again?

:tsk:

Yes rc... I can see you don't have much experience outside of working for McDonalds.

If the owner signs a contract that say Mr. A, is in complete charge of hiring and firing of coaches and personnel, then it is HIS job to do such. Bowlen, in this company, wasn't in charge of hiring and firing of the coaching staff or players. Bowlen wasn't in charge of who made the final roster. That is what Shanahan was paid to do. Thus, if Bowlen was TELLING Shanahan to fire Slowik, it actually stepped across the boundries set within their contractual agreement.


Meaning, as long as Shanahan is hired to do his job, and is doing what he was hired to do, he is in charge of such hiring and firing. It doesn't mean that Bowlen didn't have the right to fire Shanahan, but if he wanted to keep Shanahan, then he would have to accept Shanahan's decision to keep Slowik (or whomever). Which is WHY you didn't simply see Bowlen FIRE Slowik on his own. He couldn't.


Thats what you do when you hire a CEO of large corporations (although normally they don't have a single owner as a boss, they have a board of which has to vote on the firing), and, is why Bowlen has to continue to pay Shanahan despite firing him.... because its their contract.

There you go rc.... a free lesson in adult business. :coffee:

topscribe
01-15-2010, 01:39 PM
I don't see Doom going anywhere. He is a "team" guy and a solid player. As far as BMarsh goes, I see him leaving because he clashes with the philosophy that McD is trying to put in place.

Anyone who thinks of no one but himself is going to clash with McD's philosophy . . . :coffee:

-----

BroncoNut
01-15-2010, 02:17 PM
No doubt they will. Even the version of Shanahan that got fired here would be a big step up from what they've had the past couple of years.

But this new, re-invented Shanahan that hires a good DC right off the bat, and seems to have learned a few things during his time off. . .. he just might take the 'skins back to glory.

Now this post just flat out sucks

claymore
01-15-2010, 02:20 PM
Now this post just flat out sucks

NTL's been a real handful lately.

claymore
01-15-2010, 02:20 PM
Anyone who thinks of no one but himself is going to clash with McD's philosophy . . . :coffee:

-----

Like Hillis?

Northman
01-15-2010, 02:46 PM
It doesn't matter to me if Shanny and Cutty have great years or not.

I bleed Orange and Blue.

Shanny lost his "edge" and drive IMO and needed the time off to re-energize and get his mojo back. Good for him!

Cutler didn't want to be in Denver so if he succeeds in Chi-town then good for him!

I am optimistic for the Broncos moving in the right direction. I love the idea of a smash mouth team. Once McD gets all the right pieces in place the Broncos will own the AFCW and all teams will dread playing the Broncos in Denver again and when the Broncos go on the road, other teams will have to prepare extra hard for a chance to beat them!


Yeeeeeeeep. Broncos for life right here.

topscribe
01-15-2010, 03:04 PM
Like Hillis?

I haven't seen that in Hillis.

But I thought I was responding to a comment about Marshall . . . :noidea:

-----

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 03:45 PM
First, you post this and then immediately follow it with this post.
:confused:



Shocked??? I think the word that you might be looking for is elated rather than shocked.


I was indeed shocked that it happened that fast after the EOY.

But as I said I thought he should have been fired years before for lack of personnel decision prowness . not to mention his lack of playoff wins since the HOF group of players retired.

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 03:49 PM
We heard this every year for 10 years. It's getting better. He's making moves to improve. He fired the DC because he could not cut it. Blah Blah Blah. Shanahan needed to be fired 3 years before Bowlen finally pulled the trigger.

Shanahan was a pathetic GM and a great coach. As long as Washington does not give him too much power in personnel decisions they get a very good coach that should be good for them.

best post of the thread.

I know that his EOS presser was for the past 5-6 years just a rehash and in some cases word for word from the year before. "we are one or two players away from being where we want to be".

WHEN HE STUNNED THE BRONCO NATION SAYING THAT SLOWITT WOULD BE BACK NEXT YEAR, well that was the final straw that broke Pats back.

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 03:53 PM
Im torn, i like Shanahan however i hate the foreskins. I just cant see myself wanting them to succeed. I was hoping Shanny would go to the Cowboys but tubby boy managed make the playoffs.


I hate the Skins just a tad less than I hate the cowgirls. the only time I ever root for them is when they play the cowgirls.

I'm an ABC fan Anyone But Cowboys. I will root for any team that plays them. So this week I'm a Brett farve fan and hope the Vikes kill them.

claymore
01-15-2010, 04:01 PM
I haven't seen that in Hillis.

But I thought I was responding to a comment about Marshall . . . :noidea:

-----

Well he's obviously in JMCD's dog house. Im sure he doesnt like JMCD anymore than Sheff, Marshall, Cutler or any other Shanahan holdover not named Bailey.

He jsut doesnt have the leverage to say anything.

Lonestar
01-15-2010, 04:10 PM
Well he's obviously in JMCD's dog house. Im sure he doesnt like JMCD anymore than Sheff, Marshall, Cutler or any other Shanahan holdover not named Bailey.

He jsut doesnt have the leverage to say anything.

Seemed to me there was an article the past few days stating that bobby controlled who played and who did not.. perhaps it was not Joshes doghouse Peyton was in.
and frankly I thought Doom, clady, Harris, jackson, were all here before Josh came to town.

Like many others you do not get the TEAM player that Josh is trying to promote. Once you see the merits in not having me players only concerned with their own glory and not TEAM wins, you just may stop being butt hurt that mike and jay are gone and marshall is working himself out of DEN.

topscribe
01-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Well he's obviously in JMCD's dog house. Im sure he doesnt like JMCD anymore than Sheff, Marshall, Cutler or any other Shanahan holdover not named Bailey.

He jsut doesnt have the leverage to say anything.

What? Is McD supposed to go in and try to make everyone his buddy? I recall
reading about when Vince Lombardi came in and took over the Packers. The
players, almost to a man, hated his guts . . . until they started to win
championships. Today, many consider him to be the greatest coach in the
history of the game.

Those players are there for one reason: because someone at the top already
had the cash to take them out of their poverty-stricken environments and
suddenly turn them into members of the Rich and the Famous. They are
employees, and they are there to do a job, not to cast popularity votes for
their supevisors.

Nonetheless, several of the holdovers have publicly endorsed McDaniels. Such
as holdover Champ Bailey. And holdover Brandon Stokely. And holdover Elvis
Dumervil. And I have heard nothing--zilch--negative from holdovers Ryan
Clady, Ryan Harris, Chris Kuper, Spencer Larsen, et al.

So I would really like for you to lay down some facts regarding what makes
you so sure of what you are sure of . . .

-----

JDL
01-15-2010, 04:43 PM
Woody Paige is really an idiot, I wouldn't listen to him either.

That being said, one of the fundamental problems with McDaniels is that he is a divider, polarizing figure. He seems to bring out the worst in others, rather than the best. He is a shock and awe type of a coach who rather than deal with a problem diplomatically goes for the nuclear option first and foremost. This is atypical of the Bill Parcells tree, but there is a reason that Parcells stopped coaching and why he could never stick in any one place too long. When you bring that much heat on yourself constantly, where your every move is analyzed under a microscope, you are going to have a rough go. Imagine how McDaniels antics would play in New York? We already know with Mangini, you get an unhappy fan base, unhappy players, and you are constantly dealing with crises and discontentment and even when you have some success, it isn't good enough. Basically, a situation has been created largely by McDaniels approach - that anything short of winning it all and being able to say 'told you so' or flip the bird to everyone is going to still cause discontentment.

It is not necessarily that you cannot have success this way, if you are truly brilliant? all that won't necessarily matter. But, most likely, it creates issues of player motivation. Don't think having a fan base unified is important, let me give you an example. The Cardinals organization was not very beloved here in Phoenix. They hired Whisenhunt who took the job while being forced to accept the defensive staff on hand and many holdover players. He handled tricky situations like the QB situation diplomatically. The D was already pretty good, so he focused on the offense. His handling of the QB situation and other problems his first year, endeared him to fans who started to see hope and a more consistent team. Plus, you were hearing fewer and fewer complainers (and there were A LOT), but he got them all to buy into his system but one. Anquan Boldin. You know why Boldin hasn't been more flamboyant in his trade demands and why its become less and less of a story as he becomes less and less vocal about it (at one point he was in the media every other day trashing the organization.) See, the fan base sided wholly with Whisenhunt, the calls, even when they were pro paying Boldin were, 'Boldin needs shut up.' It's amazing what the goodwill of a fanbase can buy you as a coach... because coaches may not live through the media and fans, but players care VERY MUCH about that stuff and love the adoration and attention. That all goes away when the fan base turns on you and then suddenly after spending your whole life as a fan favorite, the fans ridicule and heckle you... we see it all the time in the NBA, it gets to players... it is a genuine high to be that adored. It is why Boldin's message evolved from pay me to the organization lied to me and I don't want to be apart of this organization even though 'I LOVE THE FANS' ... he eventually even tried to attack Whisenhunt which is when things turned worse for him as he had already won the support of the fanbase.

People forget that Shanahan wasn't always this demi-god type coach, bathed in power and control. He made relatively few roster changes to the starters. It was key free agents here or there, elevating certain players. He even found a way to co-exist with Anthony Miller for 2 years, who was quite the prima donna himself.

McDaniels I think made a critical mistake in his young career by taking a less than humble approach. The lack of humility has rubbed the media, fans and some players the wrong way and created a divisive and exponentially more poisoned atmosphere which will ensure he constantly faces scrutiny, whether fair or not. This article is just another example. There will be many more and I have no doubt that if McDaniels doesn't improve his perception and the team chemistry perceptions, as well as the support of fans (less booing in Mile High - it upsets the wine and cheese crowd ya know) .. he will have problems holding onto his job. It is almost as if McDaniels creates these no-room for error situations on purpose (see giving away Denver's own pick).. I mean if the guy doesn't succeed, he's set up the board to where he is going to be the great fool. I just wonder if we go 8-8 next year, will Bowlen be capable of then being cast as a great fool himself for an unwise choice or will he push for another year to be vindicated... I would suspect in the end he only cares about winning, particularly against Al Davis (let's not forget that Davis turned Bowlen in for the technical salary cap violations that were done not to add more players under the cap, but to cook his financial books so he could qualify for the loans necessary to get his big new money-maker, Invesco at Mile High.) It is why Phillips got the boot.

McDaniels has a lot to prove after 1 year and he should be given that chance, but this poisoned atmosphere of divisiveness is his own doing and people should recognize that it will continue to foster negative articles, negative fan opinions and less than pleasant atmosphere to be a Broncos fan. It will be a lot to overcome.

Northman
01-15-2010, 05:00 PM
Woody Paige is really an idiot, I wouldn't listen to him either.

That being said, one of the fundamental problems with McDaniels is that he is a divider, polarizing figure. He seems to bring out the worst in others, rather than the best. He is a shock and awe type of a coach who rather than deal with a problem diplomatically goes for the nuclear option first and foremost. This is atypical of the Bill Parcells tree, but there is a reason that Parcells stopped coaching and why he could never stick in any one place too long. When you bring that much heat on yourself constantly, where your every move is analyzed under a microscope, you are going to have a rough go. Imagine how McDaniels antics would play in New York? We already know with Mangini, you get an unhappy fan base, unhappy players, and you are constantly dealing with crises and discontentment and even when you have some success, it isn't good enough. Basically, a situation has been created largely by McDaniels approach - that anything short of winning it all and being able to say 'told you so' or flip the bird to everyone is going to still cause discontentment.

It is not necessarily that you cannot have success this way, if you are truly brilliant? all that won't necessarily matter. But, most likely, it creates issues of player motivation. Don't think having a fan base unified is important, let me give you an example. The Cardinals organization was not very beloved here in Phoenix. They hired Whisenhunt who took the job while being forced to accept the defensive staff on hand and many holdover players. He handled tricky situations like the QB situation diplomatically. The D was already pretty good, so he focused on the offense. His handling of the QB situation and other problems his first year, endeared him to fans who started to see hope and a more consistent team. Plus, you were hearing fewer and fewer complainers (and there were A LOT), but he got them all to buy into his system but one. Anquan Boldin. You know why Boldin hasn't been more flamboyant in his trade demands and why its become less and less of a story as he becomes less and less vocal about it (at one point he was in the media every other day trashing the organization.) See, the fan base sided wholly with Whisenhunt, the calls, even when they were pro paying Boldin were, 'Boldin needs shut up.' It's amazing what the goodwill of a fanbase can buy you as a coach... because coaches may not live through the media and fans, but players care VERY MUCH about that stuff and love the adoration and attention. That all goes away when the fan base turns on you and then suddenly after spending your whole life as a fan favorite, the fans ridicule and heckle you... we see it all the time in the NBA, it gets to players... it is a genuine high to be that adored. It is why Boldin's message evolved from pay me to the organization lied to me and I don't want to be apart of this organization even though 'I LOVE THE FANS' ... he eventually even tried to attack Whisenhunt which is when things turned worse for him as he had already won the support of the fanbase.

People forget that Shanahan wasn't always this demi-god type coach, bathed in power and control. He made relatively few roster changes to the starters. It was key free agents here or there, elevating certain players. He even found a way to co-exist with Anthony Miller for 2 years, who was quite the prima donna himself.

McDaniels I think made a critical mistake in his young career by taking a less than humble approach. The lack of humility has rubbed the media, fans and some players the wrong way and created a divisive and exponentially more poisoned atmosphere which will ensure he constantly faces scrutiny, whether fair or not. This article is just another example. There will be many more and I have no doubt that if McDaniels doesn't improve his perception and the team chemistry perceptions, as well as the support of fans (less booing in Mile High - it upsets the wine and cheese crowd ya know) .. he will have problems holding onto his job. It is almost as if McDaniels creates these no-room for error situations on purpose (see giving away Denver's own pick).. I mean if the guy doesn't succeed, he's set up the board to where he is going to be the great fool. I just wonder if we go 8-8 next year, will Bowlen be capable of then being cast as a great fool himself for an unwise choice or will he push for another year to be vindicated... I would suspect in the end he only cares about winning, particularly against Al Davis (let's not forget that Davis turned Bowlen in for the technical salary cap violations that were done not to add more players under the cap, but to cook his financial books so he could qualify for the loans necessary to get his big new money-maker, Invesco at Mile High.) It is why Phillips got the boot.

McDaniels has a lot to prove after 1 year and he should be given that chance, but this poisoned atmosphere of divisiveness is his own doing and people should recognize that it will continue to foster negative articles, negative fan opinions and less than pleasant atmosphere to be a Broncos fan. It will be a lot to overcome.


Pretty solid take however the one element you seemed to have overlooked is the mentality of this team going into McD's first year. Shanahan had become so complacent and ho-hum about the way he did things that it allowed the players themselves to become complacent, lazy, and have no accountability. So while McD has made his share of mistakes he has also come in to try and regain control of a player atmosphere that was out of control. Shanahan's patchup work just wasnt getting it done and in the process the Denver Broncos became a ski resort instead of a pro football team. The changing of the guard in Denver goes beyond just McD/Cutler/Marshall, etc. McD needed get the players back in line and you cant do that coming and being humble like Shanahan was.

I saw it all year long that players believed that McD was making them accountable and taken to task to step up. The fact that some of the players confronted him towards the end of the season when they felt some players werent giving it their all tells me his message is being heard. Unfortuantely, there are some talented yet very immature players who just dont want to buy in. We saw that with Braylon Edwards in Cleveland as well. When you do nothing but the rock the boat and continue to have maturity issues as the team's star you become just a cancer and not a leader. Towards the end of the season this year Cleveland started to play better and maybe that is what Holmgren sees as a positive change. For us and our dropoff it may still be attributed to lack of talent and players who constantly try to poison the team thus which will most likely lead to their departures. I think in 2 more years we will see where McD stands as far as a HC is concerned but his biggest task was taking this team and making them competitive and accountable again. Time will tell.

rcsodak
01-18-2010, 11:22 PM
They hit on Cutler, Marshall, doom, Royal, Clady. They were in it for a couple years. And they did damn good.

Even if you hate Cutler, he got us twice what we paid for him. So will Marshall, and doom.

How do you know it was them, clay? That's my point!

So all of a sudden Shanny told them to do the draft & he'd sit back and just coach 'em?

And doom isn't going anywhere.

rcsodak
01-18-2010, 11:26 PM
If he didnt, he wouldnt be paying Shanny millions till the end of Shanny's contract.

Its America, not the Soviet Union.

How is that "overstepping"?

That's called following through on a contract. A BUSINESS DEAL!

Shit happens when you party naked.

You should know that, clay. :D

rcsodak
01-19-2010, 12:52 AM
Yes rc... I can see you don't have much experience outside of working for McDonalds.

If the owner signs a contract that say Mr. A, is in complete charge of hiring and firing of coaches and personnel, then it is HIS job to do such. Bowlen, in this company, wasn't in charge of hiring and firing of the coaching staff or players. Bowlen wasn't in charge of who made the final roster. That is what Shanahan was paid to do. Thus, if Bowlen was TELLING Shanahan to fire Slowik, it actually stepped across the boundries set within their contractual agreement.


Meaning, as long as Shanahan is hired to do his job, and is doing what he was hired to do, he is in charge of such hiring and firing. It doesn't mean that Bowlen didn't have the right to fire Shanahan, but if he wanted to keep Shanahan, then he would have to accept Shanahan's decision to keep Slowik (or whomever). Which is WHY you didn't simply see Bowlen FIRE Slowik on his own. He couldn't.


Thats what you do when you hire a CEO of large corporations (although normally they don't have a single owner as a boss, they have a board of which has to vote on the firing), and, is why Bowlen has to continue to pay Shanahan despite firing him.... because its their contract.

There you go rc.... a free lesson in adult business. :coffee:

How old are you again? Enough with the personal attacks!

I've been a President of and owned my own businesses. I have a Bachelors in Business. I also don't need to CONSTANTLY defame another to make a point.

Mr Bowlen is the OWNER/PRESIDENT/CEO! Look up the Owner/employee relationship on your next lunch break. The OWNER can do anything he sees fit, in order to better his business. He writes the checks! He pays the benefits! And in the NFL, the only guarantee is there is NO guarantee.

He made a contract with Shanny. After years of seeing an abbysmal team end the season out of the playoffs, Mr Bowlen said enough! His BUSINESS was suffering! At that point, Shanny was fired, and the contract was fulfilled as it was written.

Mr Bowlen had NOTHING/ZERO/NADA/ZILCH more to do with Shanny. He didn't "fulfill his end of the contract", which is to put forth a winning team with the endgame being a SB win! In the "business world", which you so eloquently tried to equate it to, Shanny 'BREACHED' his contract by not fulfilling his end of the bargain. Most companies wouldn't wait 10+yrs.

You can quibble all you want, and cry about shanny being gone and Mr Bowlen screwing him, but it is what it is. A Business.

frauschieze
01-19-2010, 11:07 AM
Sometimes I swear Slowick must have nekkid pics of Shanahan in an awkward circumstance or something. He ought to be unemployable in this League. Incredible.

Eh.....I don't think Slowick is that bad of a DBs coach. Just don't give him ANY power beyond that.

Lonestar
01-19-2010, 12:31 PM
News flash da dit dit dit!!!

Josh talked to shanny about the rights to slowick to replace nolan and mike N got wind of it and got butt hurt and demanded a trade.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Shazam!
01-19-2010, 12:42 PM
Yes rc... I can see you don't have much experience outside of working for McDonalds...

There you go rc.... a free lesson in adult business.

Rav.. when are you going to giet off this kick. YOu are better than this. Leave this for the children.

You keep calling people a baby and childish, then post this immature junk

Gimpygod
01-19-2010, 03:25 PM
That's your choice. My team is the Denver Broncos. They are owned by one of the best owners in all of sports. That owner hired this man to run my team. He became the coach of my team. Therefore, I support him. Just a choice, but then again I enjoy my team.

Okay Ziggy, what do you enjoy about this team? Be specific.

gregbroncs
01-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Cutler didnt want to be in Denver after meeting McDaniels. Same can be said for a few other players. I think we are still moving backwards. The slide will stop eventually. Either with this coach or another.Cutler did not want to be here after shanahan left.