Marshall's value to other NFL teams not clear

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14176465

Many who have corresponded over the past week or so have taken great exception to the premise that not every football guy in the NFL is poised to surrender a bounty of draft picks in a trade to the Broncos for Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Marshall.

It seems some people are troubled by the idea that any number of general managers and pro personnel executives believe Marshall has plenty going for him but still aren't sure if he can rise above what they characterize as "very good" status.

Many folks in Broncos Nation blame quarterback Kyle Orton for the fact that 64.4 percent of Marshall's receiving plays went for 10 yards or fewer as he finished with an average of 11.1 yards per catch.

But in the 2008 season, the Broncos passed for 4,471 yards — a record for the franchise — with Jay Cutler at quarterback. Marshall averaged 12.2 yards per catch that season and did not have a reception longer than 47 yards; he had three in 2009.

In an offense that passed the ball 620 times — 61.6 percent of the time, and 62 times more than this past season — Marshall still had just over half of his receiving plays (51 percent) go for 10 yards or fewer.

Marshall had 13 receiving plays of more than 21 yards in 2008 and 10 in 2009. He had six touchdown catches in 2008 and 10 in 2009.

Even in the "wide open" Denver offense of 2008, as some have called it, and with Cutler in the shotgun most of the time, the only area of the field where Marshall had significantly more production than the 2009 season was between 11 and 20 yards, not down the field.

Some of that is because the Broncos wanted the ball out quickly — Cutler was sacked just 11 times, even with his 616 attempts in 2008 — but also because of Marshall's comfort level catching the ball on routes that call for him to face the quarterback.

Those are short to intermediate routes in the middle of the field for the most part, more horizontal than vertical.

There's no question Marshall has the size and strength to dominate smaller cornerbacks. But it's still a question mark exactly how many of the NFL's toughest critics — the personnel executives the Broncos are going to ask to trade for him — believe Marshall is an elite player at his position.

The Broncos will get the answer to that in the coming weeks, and they need it to be at least one.

[dogfish]

naturally execs are going to do everything they can to downplay marshall's value. . . who walks onto a used car lot and starts gushing about how incredible their vehicles are? may as well hand your wallet over. . . :laugh:

this is a poker game, a time-honored and traditional routine. . .

[UnderArmour]

We shouldn't be letting Marshall go anyways. He's our most valuable offensive player, arguably more so than Ryan Clady. Marshall needs to be paid.

[spikerman]

The dirty little secret about Brandon Marshall is that he is a possession receiver. He is not a typical deep threat. Denver hasn't had a deep threat in a few years. My memory may be fuzzy, but I don't remember a Broncos offense as unable or unwilling as this past year's to take shots down the field since the Brian Griese days.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The dirty little secret about Brandon Marshall is that he is a possession receiver. He is not a typical deep threat. Denver hasn't had a deep threat in a few years. My memory may be fuzzy, but I don't remember a Broncos offense as unable or unwilling as this past year's to take shots down the field since the Brian Griese days.

I may be confused, but you said that Denver hasn't had a deep threat in a few years. Then you say that you don't remember a Broncos offense as unable or unwilling as this past year's to take shots down the field. If they don't have a deep threat, how are they suppose to take shots down the field?

[Ziggy]

I may be confused, but you said that Denver hasn't had a deep threat in a few years. Then you say that you don't remember a Broncos offense as unable or unwilling as this past year's to take shots down the field. If they don't have a deep threat, how are they suppose to take shots down the field?

Not to mention the fact that the offensive line couldn't protect the QB long enough for a deep route to develop most of the time.

[broncohead]

I don't think it's any secret that Marshall isn't a deep threat. He can catch in traffic but if he has some space he's dangerous with the ball.

[Broncolingus]

Right or wrong, Marshall (and Scheff) are gone...

I just hope we get something for them and don't give them away...

[dogfish]

meh. . . marshall could be a beast on jump balls down the field if we'd dial 'em up. . .


go back and watch the end of the dallas game again and tell me he's just a possession receiver who doesn't or can't make big plays. . . a guy with his frame and muscle doesn't have to have burner speed to make plays down the field. . .

besides which, 1,200-1,300 yards and 8-10 TDs is 1,200-1,300 yards and 8-10 TDs, regardless of what he averages per catch. . . just purely in terms of what he does on the field, the only receivers in the league i'd take over marshall-- right now-- are andre johnson and larry fitzgerald. . . maaaybe calvin johnson just because he still has so much upside-- but no one else. . .

the guy has a ton of value, although his off-field problems do lessen it some. . .

[JDL]

Not to mention the fact that the offensive line couldn't protect the QB long enough for a deep route to develop most of the time.

This is really blatant nonsense... pass protection was not really the problem, nobody took more time than Orton and the KC game was indicative as he sat back in the pocket FOREVER scanning the field.

Do people just not watch the games anymore and just believe what they want. And KC was one of the teams that gave Clady the most trouble and we did a superb job of protecting Orton.

I love how the OL has gone from the biggest positive on the team to the biggest reason for collapse in one season... it really is hysterical. It has room for improvement in terms of being more physical, BECAUSE, that's what is required in the new run blocking scheme, but pass blocking is still pass blocking and the only real big issue is Orton's immobility and unwillingness most of the time to throw the ball away, which is just something fans have to accept while he is starter. He's gonna take sacks and good many of them won't be the OLs fault... (I can't count the number of times he got happy feet in the pocket and was unsure where to go, even though there was a clear pocket for him to step up into.) Anyway, that is another story... but pass blocking and providing necessary time to throw down field was NOT an issue, it just wasn't part of the offense, I don't know why people can't accept that. Orton isn't a very accurate long thrower and proved it time and again underthrowing WRs a lot (Marshall made a lot of great plays on underthrown balls and Lloyd did the same last game.) He can hit them, but it isn't his forte and is a low % play in an offense that LIKES high percentage throws. Not hard to grasp.

[Lonestar]

We shouldn't be letting Marshall go anyways. He's our most valuable offensive player, arguably more so than Ryan Clady. Marshall needs to be paid.

did you really see the stats listed above?

I heard the other day on a Cowgirls station in town ..they were discussing the ramifications of the TO trade.. many thought they were doomed when it happened but in fact it allowed Romo to blossom into a pretty fair QB..

IIRC from the chat they said he had soread the passing out to like 15 different receivers and he had his best year ever .. while austin sucked up a lot of passes, he had his best year with out TO always whining about getting passes to him the huddle was a nicer place to be this year and everyone was very relaxed.

so in fact it was addition by subtraction.

getting rid of a ball hog WR that really did not do much last year 08 or in some cases improved over 2008 with more longer passes and not so many "looking at the QB" in 09 perhaps it would not be that big a loss as a few think..

certainly would be less worry=threads about how many days he will get suspened in 10.:laugh:

[spikerman]

I may be confused, but you said that Denver hasn't had a deep threat in a few years. Then you say that you don't remember a Broncos offense as unable or unwilling as this past year's to take shots down the field. If they don't have a deep threat, how are they suppose to take shots down the field?

I should have been more clear. What I should have said was a "consistent" deep threat. All of these guys can run, but the Broncos don't have anybody that defensive backs have to worry about running by them. To me, you still send somebody on a go route a couple of times a game and take a shot. With very few exceptions, the Broncos were not willing to ever risk throwing the deep ball.

Since the Broncos don't have legit deep threats the odds are that the coverage will be tight. Best case scenario, the ball is either caught or there's a DPI call. Worst case scenario the ball is picked off which would be about the same as a punt anyway except that now the offense has put it in the defense's mind that they're willing to throw the ball deep and they had better keep their safeties back.

[spikerman]

Not to mention the fact that the offensive line couldn't protect the QB long enough for a deep route to develop most of the time.

As quickly as that ball was coming out most of the time it was obvious the deep route was rarely an option.

[spikerman]

.... go back and watch the end of the dallas game again and tell me he's just a possession receiver who doesn't or can't make big plays. . . I personally never said that he can't or doesn't make big plays, but he is a possession receiver in that he does not stretch the field. He's a beast, but his speed doesn't scare anybody at the NFL level. He's a terrific receiver and I wish he could stay a Bronco, but that ship has sailed I think. I do think other teams negotiating with the Broncos will bring up the fact that his YPC reflect those of a possession receiver.

[56crash]

I personally never said that he can't or doesn't make big plays, but he is a possession receiver in that he does not stretch the field. He's a beast, but his speed doesn't scare anybody at the NFL level. He's a terrific receiver and I wish he could stay a Bronco, but that ship has sailed I think. I do think other teams negotiating with the Broncos will bring up the fact that his YPC reflect those of a possession receiver.

you act like there is a problem between coach and player . When what you have is A WR not getting paid what he should be quiet simple.

[Ravage!!!]

you act like there is a problem between coach and player . When what you have is A WR not getting paid what he should be quiet simple.

There is a problem between coach and player. That problem started when the player felt that he played through an injury and should be rewarded with a raise, and the coaches and owner said he had to prove himself.

Then... the coach called him out and questioned his toughness to the media in the last week of the season.

There is definitely a problem between the coach and player.

[Northman]

There is a problem between coach and player. That problem started when the player felt that he played through an injury and should be rewarded with a raise, and the coaches and owner said he had to prove himself.

Then... the coach called him out and questioned his toughness to the media in the last week of the season.

There is definitely a problem between the coach and player.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2252/1862544845_cd72887c04.jpg

[Ravage!!!]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2252/1862544845_cd72887c04.jpg

Oh.. its personal.

[Lonestar]

seems to me that marshall does was he wants.. was to hurt to play last year in his own mind with the pi injury yet was OK to play in the Pro bowl.

when asked to play in perhaps the most important game of the year he can't go.

there is NO I in team.. do not let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

not to mention giving this immature twit big money and having to wonder how long it will take him to wind up involved in a another domestic disturbance call or drunk/speeding driving.

time to let this turd float away and be someone else's issue let them spend their money in first class tickets to Goodell's office a couple times a year..

[broncofaninfla]

There will be plenty of teams lining up for Marshal, I'm confident of it. He'll get his money and he'll continue to make plays on the field. If he continues his progress off of the field, who ever gets him is getting one hell of a play maker. I can't help but think just how bad we would have been without him in 2009.....looks like we'll find out in 2010.

[TXBRONC]

There will be plenty of teams lining up for Marshal, I'm confident of it. He'll get his money and he'll continue to make plays on the field. If he continues his progress off of the field, who ever gets him is getting one hell of a play maker. I can't help but think just how bad we would have been without him in 2009.....looks like we'll find out in 2010.

According to some people Gaffney is more than capable replacing Marshall's production because of one good game against a bad secondary.

[broncofaninfla]

According to some people Gaffney is more than capable replacing Marshall's production because one good game against a bad secondary.

Amazing isn't it? We also lost that game as well....but hey....we fielded "team players" right? Those were same people who jumped all over the "accountablity" and "team player" catch phrases that Mcd spit out via the media as if this was some brand new concept to Denever and the NFL. :tsk:

[TXBRONC]

Amazing isn't it? We also lost that game as well....but hey....we fielded "team players" right? Those were same people who jumped all over the "accountablity" and "team player" catch phrases that Mcd spit out via the media as if this was some brand new concept to Denever and the NFL. :tsk:

For all that "great" production we got out of Gaffney how many touchdown did he account for?

[Apollo]

His value will depend on the team. Some teams are WAY more willing to take a risk on an attitude than others. Although, it's better to trade him before he does something SO stupid not even the Raiders would accept him...

[Northman]

His value will depend on the team. Some teams are WAY more willing to take a risk on an attitude than others. Although, it's better to trade him before he does something SO stupid not even the Raiders would accept him...

Word. But hey, there's always TO and Randy Moss with their rings....errr wait.