PDA

View Full Version : Changes sure to start at line of scrimmage



Denver Native (Carol)
01-10-2010, 08:29 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14158161

No one ever wants to go there.

Maybe because it's too dirty, too rough, too bruising. Too anonymous.

Focus is always on the spotlight, from where quarterbacks throw, receivers catch and tailbacks run.

When considering what went wrong with the Broncos' once-promising 2009 season and how they can end their playoff drought in 2010, discussion usually starts with quarterback Kyle Orton. The real answer, though, may lie directly in front of Orton.

The gritty, sweaty, widely ignored line of scrimmage.

When the Broncos began the 2009 season 6-0, credit went to Orton and Brandon Marshall, or to safety Brian Dawkins and pass-rushing linebacker Elvis Dumervil. Looking back, it was the players up front who were dominating, particularly in the second half of games. The Broncos could not have outscored their first six opponents by a combined second-half score of 76-10 if not for their linemen moving the line of scrimmage a yard or two in their desired direction.

Then there was the Broncos' free fall after Week 6. They got beat up by Baltimore, wore down by Pittsburgh. The pitiful Oakland Raiders rushed for 241 yards — despite running at the disadvantage of 5,280 feet above sea level. Kansas City's Jamaal Charles, all 199 pounds of him, gashed the Broncos for 259 yards.

In contrast, Broncos rookie Knowshon Moreno averaged just 43.3 yards, on 2.7 yards per carry, in his final four games.

The difference between the 6-0 Broncos and 2-8 Broncos? Look no further than where people never look: the line of scrimmage.

"If you have to pass the ball 56 times (as Orton did in the season-ending debacle against Kansas City), now your protection is going to be significantly more challenged when the defense knows you have to throw it to gain yards," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said. "If you also struggle to stop the run, you try to start moving people down in the box on defense. Now, all of the sudden, everybody is in one-on-one coverage in the secondary or you start blitzing to try to stop the run, which is never a good formula because if you do that, you've got all (heck) breaking loose at the line of scrimmage. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's terrible. That's never a good formula."

To say Denver's late-season fade should be blamed on McDaniels' coaching, Orton's throwing or locker-room disharmony is to disrespect the significance of the play at the line of scrimmage. Priority No. 1 this offseason for McDan- iels, his coaching staff and general manager Brian Xanders is addressing the line of scrimmage, where blockers push tacklers and tacklers push back.

"There's two positions you've got to look at," said former Broncos guard Mark Schlereth, now an NFL analyst for ESPN. "The inside of the offensive line, and you've got to find a complementary pass rusher to Elvis Dumervil somewhere. Who knows if that guy exists?"

Where have you gone, Robert Ayers? Here's a look at the positions the Broncos are certain to address this offseason:

Interior offensive line. Every time McDaniels was asked why he didn't use Peyton Hillis in short-yardage situations, his response, in so many words, was that the problem did not necessarily lie with the running backs, but with the blocking up front.

McDaniels believes in Moreno. He would not have used the No. 12 overall pick in the 2009 draft if he didn't. But there's no way to sugarcoat Moreno's 3.8 yards per carry for the season as anything but disappointing. Moreno will stay. The offensive line will change.

In Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris, the Broncos are plenty good enough at the tackle position. There will be a new left guard next season, and 285-pound Casey Wiegmann will again confront the possibility of getting replaced by a larger center.

Defensive front seven. Ayers, the No. 18 overall draft pick, finished with 17 fewer sacks in his rookie year than Dumervil, now a restricted free agent. Because both were outside linebackers who are defensive ends by trade, the Broncos employed more of a 5-2 defense than 3-4 in Mike Nolan's first season as their defensive coordinator. The Broncos will again search for a true 3-4 outside linebacker who can rush the passer, cover a tight end and disrupt the run. And given the way the Broncos became so passive against the rush in November and December, they may look for a 3-4 inside linebacker who more closely resembles take-on-the-blocker Andra Davis than free-lancing D.J. Williams, and more stoutness at five-technique defensive end and nose tackle.

Receiver. The question isn't if Marshall will leave Denver, or even when — his departure should happen March 5, the first day of the trading and free-agent season. Will the Broncos try to replace his Pro Bowl talent?

"New England did it forever without a No. 1 receiver," Schlereth said.

Nor do the Broncos have to find the equivalent of Wes Welker at slot receiver. They already have one in Eddie Royal. They just didn't realize it during the 2009 season.

"I know that I'm frustrated and disappointed that we couldn't do more in terms of using Eddie Royal," McDaniels said. "I've been asked that question a bunch. I know Eddie is frustrated with it too. I'm not happy with that, and I don't want that to be the case. We're going to work hard to try to fix that and get that to change dramatically going into next season."

Receiving tight end. In veteran Daniel Graham and youngster Richard Quinn, the Broncos have two block-first tight ends — but neither can replace the pass-catching role of Tony Scheffler, who is likely to be traded.

Quarterback. Orton will return, but it would be a surprise if the Broncos gave him a Matt Cassel-type contract when the current labor laws say it's not necessary. The Broncos may bring in another veteran to compete with Chris Simms as backup or continue to analyze the draft for their quarterback of the future.
Broncos' wish list?

The Broncos' needs are many, including improving the interior of the offensive line, the front three on defense, linebacker, a No. 1 receiver and a future quarterback. First comes free agency, then the draft. Following are players the Broncos may pursue this offseason:

Free agency

1. Logan Mankins, LG, Patriots, 6-4, 310, RFA-UFA*

Interior offensive line may be top priority.

2. Ryan Pickett, NT, Packers, 6-2, 340, UFA

Pickett will be best 3-4 nose tackle available.

3. Larry Foote, ILB, Lions, 6-1, 240, UFA

Might be better 3-4 fit than D.J. Williams.

4. Jarvis Green, DL, Patriots, 6-3, 285, UFA

Versatile lineman who can rush the passer.

5. Benjamin Watson, TE, Patriots, 6-3, 255, UFA

Well-known by Broncos coach Josh McDaniels.

Others: Rex Hadnot, C, Browns; Mark Clayton, WR, Ravens; Marcus Spears, DE, Cowboys; Ryan Denney, DE, Bills; Stephen Neal, G, Patriots; Chad Pennington, QB, Dolphins; Casey Hampton, NT, Steelers; Derrick Johnson, LB, Chiefs.

* Restricted free agent if labor agreement is not reached; unrestricted if there's a new contract agreement.

Draft

1. Gerald McCoy, DE, Oklahoma

The best of the five-technique defensive ends.

2. Rolando McClain, ILB, Alabama

Great fit, but would Broncos move D.J. Williams?

3. Jerry Hughes, OLB, TCU

Might be better 3-4 fit than McClain.

4. Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma

A gamble following knee surgery.

5. Brandon LaFell, WR, LSU

Has size, speed and production.

Others: Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma; Ricky Sapp, OLB, Clemson; Tony Pike, QB, Cincinnati; Sean Canfield, QB, Oregon State; Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford; Corey Wootton, DE, Northwestern; Terrence Cody, DT, Alabama; Jared Odrick, DT, Penn State; Brian Price, DT, UCLA; Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee; Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech; Arthur Jones, DL, Syracuse; Jacoby Ford, KR-WR, Clemson; Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame.

Elevation inc
01-10-2010, 09:34 AM
great article unfortuanetly everything is and always will be MCd's fault.....lol

Superchop 7
01-10-2010, 03:06 PM
WE need the line/A gap to NOT move and allow LB to flow......that would be Cody.

I believe that Spikes is better in coverage than McClain. (Can be used as OLB, versatile)

I prefer Snead to Pike, bigger arm, more mobile, less pressure on Orton as he develops.

I prefer Mays to anyone, because he puts the fear of God into the other team. (Sorely lacking on team)

McCoy......they nailed that one.

silkamilkamonico
01-10-2010, 03:34 PM
WE need the line/A gap to NOT move and allow LB to flow......that would be Cody.

I believe that Spikes is better in coverage than McClain. (Can be used as OLB, versatile)

I prefer Snead to Pike, bigger arm, more mobile, less pressure on Orton as he develops.

I prefer Mays to anyone, because he puts the fear of God into the other team. (Sorely lacking on team)

McCoy......they nailed that one.

I like Cody, although I don't trust his stamina in the 3-4. IMO he's nothing more than a rotation guy in the NFL because of that.

I'm not sure why everyone's looking at Spikes/McClain. An upgrade would be nice, but we have much more glaring problems than MLB, and there will be plenty of talent available in our first couple picks to help out.

I think Snead is going to be a terrible NFL player. He's nothing more than a system QB at Ole Miss, and he's nothing special in the pocket.

Taylor Mays is severly overrated, and terribly undisciplined. He doesn't understand how to play the game in scheme, and spending a first round pick on a glorified special teams player would be a teribble idea.

Gerald McCoy would be nice.

Traveler
01-10-2010, 03:43 PM
Taylor Mays is severly overrated, and terribly undisciplined. He doesn't understand how to play the game in scheme, and spending a first round pick on a glorified special teams player would be a teribble idea.

If that's the case, doesn't your description fit Josh Barrett?

silkamilkamonico
01-10-2010, 03:46 PM
If that's the case, doesn't your description fit Josh Barrett?

Quite possibly, yea. Barrett sucks, and was lucky he was drafted in the 7th round. However, someone will spending a first round on Mays.

broncofanatic1987
01-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Quite possibly, yea. Barrett sucks, and was lucky he was drafted in the 7th round. However, someone will spending a first round on Mays.

I remember seeing Mays against Notre Dame and it seemed that whenever he hit Golden Tate it looked like Tate barely evenly knew he had been hit. I think Mays quite possibly is overrated too.

EMB6903
01-10-2010, 04:17 PM
I dont know how Mays is as highly ranked as he is but at USC the only time he ever stood out consistently is when he was getting beat in coverage or taking a bad angle on a ball carrier, hes not a ball hawk and hes over-rated against the run.

Hes an amazing physical speciman. A starter in the NFL though? I dont see it.

arapaho2
01-10-2010, 06:19 PM
i didnt like the article at all

one sure the pats did it without a great wr for a few years...but they also have brady..we got the poor mans version of palmer

sure we can blame the interior of the line...but not the coach..the coach who insisted we take a line built for the zbs and make them a power block team...surely the collapse isnt on the coach at all..right?

sure maybe the line was the problem and not moreno...but a smart man would put money on a back that is just as fast, just as quick, but has almost forty pounds of muscle might just have that extra pop to get a occassional 3rd and short conversion or goal line td...but hey no sense in even trying right coach

then to say orton is excused because he had to pass so much in the last games...yet cutler didnt get that excuse did he...wasnt he forced to pass like 614 times last season

then to say we didnt realize we had the equivelent to welker in royal already...umm i believe a hell of a lot of fans and experts realized it..the only ones who didnt was josh and orton

then to say orton will be back..but maybe not with a huge contract...dont we have the coach who made criss simms the highest paid #2 in the league...why wouldnt he:coffee:

roomemp
01-10-2010, 06:34 PM
i didnt like the article at all

one sure the pats did it without a great wr for a few years...but they also have brady..we got the poor mans version of palmer

sure we can blame the interior of the line...but not the coach..the coach who insisted we take a line built for the zbs and make them a power block team...surely the collapse isnt on the coach at all..right?

sure maybe the line was the problem and not moreno...but a smart man would put money on a back that is just as fast, just as quick, but has almost forty pounds of muscle might just have that extra pop to get a occassional 3rd and short conversion or goal line td...but hey no sense in even trying right coach

then to say orton is excused because he had to pass so much in the last games...yet cutler didnt get that excuse did he...wasnt he forced to pass like 614 times last season

then to say we didnt realize we had the equivelent to welker in royal already...umm i believe a hell of a lot of fans and experts realized it..the only ones who didnt was josh and orton

then to say orton will be back..but maybe not with a huge contract...dont we have the coach who made criss simms the highest paid #2 in the league...why wouldnt he:coffee:


:blah:

Lonestar
01-10-2010, 06:40 PM
i didnt like the article at all

one sure the pats did it without a great wr for a few years...but they also have brady..we got the poor mans version of palmer

sure we can blame the interior of the line...but not the coach..the coach who insisted we take a line built for the zbs and make them a power block team...surely the collapse isnt on the coach at all..right?

sure maybe the line was the problem and not moreno...but a smart man would put money on a back that is just as fast, just as quick, but has almost forty pounds of muscle might just have that extra pop to get a occassional 3rd and short conversion or goal line td...but hey no sense in even trying right coach

then to say orton is excused because he had to pass so much in the last games...yet cutler didnt get that excuse did he...wasnt he forced to pass like 614 times last season

then to say we didnt realize we had the equivelent to welker in royal already...umm i believe a hell of a lot of fans and experts realized it..the only ones who didnt was josh and orton

then to say orton will be back..but maybe not with a huge contract...dont we have the coach who made criss simms the highest paid #2 in the league...why wouldnt he:coffee:


great article unfortuanetly everything is and always will be MCd's fault.....lol

called that one HI5 to you..

arapaho2
01-10-2010, 07:03 PM
called that one HI5 to you..

show me where i was wrong at ...simply pointed out a few flaws in the article

Denver Native (Carol)
01-10-2010, 07:12 PM
show me where i was wrong at ...simply pointed out a few flaws in the article

Flaws for those who do not like Coach and Orton, right on for those who do - to each his own.

Superchop 7
01-10-2010, 08:16 PM
Of course Cody is a 2 down NT, I have no problem with it, but 3rd and 9 is alot tougher to make than 3rd and 2. He requires a double team and that helps the linebackers immensely.

In regards to Mays, I wouldn't drop a 1 on him either, he will probably slide into the top of the 2nd, he is just one of those guys like Maualuga that gets criticized like crazy and then turns it on in the pros. Look, we need a safety that strikes fear in receivers and this kid can hit. He "should" have come out last year, he has been understandably cautious this year trying to stay healthy for the big pay day.

IMO, we can slide back and pickup Cody 15-18, either Spikes or Mays will be there at the top of the 2nd, position yourself to get one of them. IMO, Spikes could be the answer on the other side (opposite Doom) in regards to pass rush. I feel he is suited to line up outside as well as inside.

We may have an extra 1 and 3, this is where McCoy and Snead come in. Snead is as physically talented as any QB in this class, sure, Kiper doesn't like him but Kiper had a cow about Dwight Freeney too. Look,.....Josh can coach a QB, I care more that he has the tools, and this kid does. Just keep him in the background and groom him.

dogfish
01-10-2010, 08:50 PM
mays is going to seriously disappoint someone if they spend a high pick on him. . . he has fantastic physical tools, but it seems like his instincts are off, and that's bad news for a safety. . . i think pro QBs will have no problems manipulating him with their eyes and pump fakes-- i see him being a player who's going to struggle a lot with taking poor angles, being out of position, and biting on play action and double moves. . .

i also don't agree at all with some of the sentiment i've seen about replacing DJ williams. . . yea, he missed some plays (who doesn't?), but he also made a ton for us. . . he was all over the field most weeks, was a big part of our stout run defense early in the year, and for the first time in his career he really showed off his speed in coverage drops and the few occasions where he was called on to blitz. . .

arapaho2
01-10-2010, 08:51 PM
Flaws for those who do not like Coach and Orton, right on for those who do - to each his own.

its not about coach or orton...its about the truth

and the truth is you all are condemming what was the #2 ranked oline last year as trash...but releasing the coach from blame for changing a run blocking scheme we have run for over a decade overnight

your condemming the oline for horrid pass blocking...but relieveing the coach from any responsibility in getting rid of a mobile elusive qb for a virtual statue and then keeping him in the pocket

your condemming the oline for not opening the running game....but exclude the coach from any blame in not at least useing a back who proved he can run with power and has 30-40 pounds of muscle on knowshon


tell me am i missing anything:coffee:

dogfish
01-10-2010, 08:55 PM
tell me am i missing anything:coffee:


okay. . . you're missing the fact that the season's over, and it's more fun to talk about the way we're going to approach the offseason than to sit here and keep bitching about last year and assigning blame. . .

you guys think mcdaniels is the devil and to blame for everything, probably including the harris injury, every bad bounce, every dropped pass and every missed tackle that happened all year. . . fine, cool, we get it. . . any chance we can move on, or is it really that much fun?

gobroncsnv
01-10-2010, 08:55 PM
I hope we don't even THINK about Bradford. The guy will break like a pretzel in the NFL.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-10-2010, 09:13 PM
tell me am i missing anything:coffee:

What you are missing is that EVERY head coach runs the system he wants. Do you really think that Shanahan will not CHANGE things in Washington, that Carrol will not CHANGE things in Seattle, etc., etc., etc.

arapaho2
01-10-2010, 09:26 PM
What you are missing is that EVERY head coach runs the system he wants. Do you really think that Shanahan will not CHANGE things in Washington, that Carrol will not CHANGE things in Seattle, etc., etc., etc.

yes every coach changes....some smartly dont force a wholesale change unless they got the personal for it...as it was we didnt have the middle for a power attack...but we did it anyway..smart?

im not even critiqueing the change to a power blocking team...if thats what he wants..so be it

IM CRITIQUEING THE FANS CONDEMMING OUR OLINE..WHEN ITS NOT REALLY THEIR FAULT.....they were great last year..as a unit one of the best..change coach and scheme and suddenly you all are throwing them under the bus as quickly as josh did

AND I FAIL TO SEE HOW NOT USEING TALENT ON STAFF..EVEN IF THEY ARE MORE TALENTED..IS A NO NO FOR A NEW COACH

arapaho2
01-10-2010, 09:39 PM
okay. . . you're missing the fact that the season's over, and it's more fun to talk about the way we're going to approach the offseason than to sit here and keep bitching about last year and assigning blame. . .

you guys think mcdaniels is the devil and to blame for everything, probably including the harris injury, every bad bounce, every dropped pass and every missed tackle that happened all year. . . fine, cool, we get it. . . any chance we can move on, or is it really that much fun?


WRONG....i dont think hes the devil...a demon maybe..a spawn of lucifer certainly:lol:

so you'll have to show me where i blamed mcd for harris getting injured?????

as it is it does no good to condemm a player when it was typically the coaching....we can look forward to the draft...but do we cross fingers hopeing he actually has a good draft after the failure of last season

theres a lot to be concerned about..and the happenings of this past season is a huge part

Lonestar
01-11-2010, 04:26 AM
Let's see he is supposed to come in and coach last years team with no changes because they are incapable of doing anything else.

That makes sense for Pat to fire mike and hire a new guy that does not know crap about ZBS to make changes to his scheme so as to not upset arapho.

Makes sense to only those few that did not get he was brought in to change everything this team did the year before. Attitude, losers mentality, zero sum defense, great O between the 20's-but crap in the red zone, unspecial teams play, lousy coaching except at RB.

For those that thought mike was the cats ass you will never give any one else a chance.

For lots of folks that saw mike for what he was a GREAT OC we now get to see a complete HC that will take a year or so to make the transition to his schemes.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Dirk
01-11-2010, 08:44 AM
Anyone that thought McD could come in (or any other coach for that matter) and have the Broncos in the SB this year were sadly kidding yourself.

McD was brought in to change the philosophy in the way the team looked, thought, played. This wasn't going to happen in one season no matter how some of you thought it would.

I saw a lot of good things in this season. Once the players are put in place to operate in Nolan's defense and in McD's offense this team is going to be good...if not great.

Patience people! It will happen.

And though some of you don't get it, strong tough teams win. Look at how Baltimore took it to New England.

It is so true the saying, "It all begins and ends in the trenches".

So since you believe that the offensive line doesn't need help, and they were so good, we must have been deep in the playoffs over the last few years.....oh wait

Yes the defenses were bad and utterly attrocious at times, and that line needs fixing as well.

The thought of smaller quicker linemen is gone now. On both sides of the ball. And I for one am utterly greatful for that!

Traveler
01-11-2010, 10:19 AM
Anyone that thought McD could come in (or any other coach for that matter) and have the Broncos in the SB this year were sadly kidding yourself.

McD was brought in to change the philosophy in the way the team looked, thought, played. This wasn't going to happen in one season no matter how some of you thought it would.

I saw a lot of good things in this season. Once the players are put in place to operate in Nolan's defense and in McD's offense this team is going to be good...if not great.

Patience people! It will happen.

And though some of you don't get it, strong tough teams win. Look at how Baltimore took it to New England.

It is so true the saying, "It all begins and ends in the trenches".

So since you believe that the offensive line doesn't need help, and they were so good, we must have been deep in the playoffs over the last few years.....oh wait

Yes the defenses were bad and utterly attrocious at times, and that line needs fixing as well.

The thought of smaller quicker linemen is gone now. On both sides of the ball. And I for one am utterly greatful for that!

Excellent post Dirk!

It's almost a forgone conclusion that when there is a coaching change or change in scheme, the new staff is probably going to jettison many of the players from the old scheme. Especially if they can't adapt to the requirements of the new scheme. For example look at what Jime Bates did when he came here. Terrible results, but he wasn't given a chance to fully implement his scheme. Wouldn't be fair to JMcD to do the same. Agree?

JMcD did what needed to be done on the defensive side of the ball. The previous defense was so horrible and devoid of talent, it was a no brainer to start from scratch.

On offense, JMcD tried to blend the two schemes to no avail. We just don't have the horses to run the scheme required for his preferred type of offense. Denver has not been a physical team since the 99 season, when we had players that could perform in tandem and beat their man individually, when required.

All here know that Shanahan preferred finesse type players on the OL and specifically targeted those type of players. It's been well documented that after the teams with Elway, TD, Sharpe, Zimmerman, etc., that we've had trouble with the more physical teams with massive players. None of our players, with the exception of maybe Clady and Kuper and possibly Harris fit JMcD's offense.

So why is anyone surprised that the OL struggled this year? As Dirk so rightly pointed out, once JMcD gets the right type of players put in place on the OL and DL, the team will be remarkably better.

Having said all this, JMcD is not without fault here. Could he have tried using different personnel? Sure. Will he have to become more adaptable with the personnel available until he gets his type of players in here? Without question!

Many folks also have to remember that he couldn't fix everything in one season. We all assumed, correctly that the defense was the most pressing need. Although they wore down in the second half of the season (a Bronco trait for the past ten years), enough was done on the defensive side of the ball to keep us in competitive games against some of the better teams in the league.

IMO, what has to happen next is that we must completely move away from the finesse type of OL, jettison entirely the ZBS, and start getting more massive on both lines.

I've mentioned in another thread that I read a study last offseason that looked at how both finesse and physical teams fared early and late in the season.

The results were that the finesse teams were pretty good early in the season (Broncos), while the bigger more physical teams tended to do better later in the season. The difference was that the weaker more finesse teams wore down and lacked the strength and stamina required to handle the more naturally massive physical teams late in the season when it counts the most.

I believe JMcD knows this also and is trying to change the culture, mindset and type of players required in the trenches to finally make us competitive later in the season.

Sorry! Didn't mean to be so long winded.

Nomad
01-11-2010, 10:31 AM
Anyone that thought McD could come in (or any other coach for that matter) and have the Broncos in the SB this year were sadly kidding yourself.

McD was brought in to change the philosophy in the way the team looked, thought, played. This wasn't going to happen in one season no matter how some of you thought it would.

I saw a lot of good things in this season. Once the players are put in place to operate in Nolan's defense and in McD's offense this team is going to be good...if not great.

Patience people! It will happen.

And though some of you don't get it, strong tough teams win. Look at how Baltimore took it to New England.

It is so true the saying, "It all begins and ends in the trenches".

So since you believe that the offensive line doesn't need help, and they were so good, we must have been deep in the playoffs over the last few years.....oh wait

Yes the defenses were bad and utterly attrocious at times, and that line needs fixing as well.

The thought of smaller quicker linemen is gone now. On both sides of the ball. And I for one am utterly greatful for that!

All I ask is that we're consistently competative throughout the season (especially the second half) and dominate our home games, playoffs would be great and SB even greater! I don't believe anyone expected a SB this year, but after an 6-0 also didn't expect a 2-8 meltdown down the stretch!! The meltdowns in the second half of the season have got to end no matter who the coach is or what our first half record is or what fans/pundits expectations are!! McDaniels/Nolan/Xanders/ have their chance and know what to fix, so get it done!!

Dirk
01-11-2010, 10:35 AM
All I ask is that we're consistently competative throughout the season (especially the second half) and dominate our home games, playoffs would be great and SB even greater! I don't believe anyone expected a SB this year, but after an 6-0 also didn't expect a 2-8 meltdown down the stretch!! The meltdowns in the second half of the season have got to end no matter who the coach is or what our first half record is or what fans/pundits expectations are!! McDaniels/Nolan/Xanders/ have their chance and know what to fix, so get it done!!

I have no doubt that they know what needs to be fixed. And they will be working towards it.

I hope they can go far in fixing it for next season. Will they fix all the issues? Very doubtful and unreasonable for anyone to think that they should.

It could be year after next before we are a true threat for years to come.

Again, be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Nomad
01-11-2010, 10:42 AM
I have no doubt that they know what needs to be fixed. And they will be working towards it.

I hope they can go far in fixing it for next season. Will they fix all the issues? Very doubtful and unreasonable for anyone to think that they should.

It could be year after next before we are a true threat for years to come.

Again, be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.

True! And I know players you bring in are a gamble and yes Rome wasn't built in a day but I'm sure if the buildings kept crumbling because the foundations were weak then they'd find a way to build a bigger, stronger foundations. And I hope that's the focus of McDaniels/Nolan/Xanders, if not how can you be patient if the "BRONCOS" crumble again next year because the foundations are weak which has been a consistent problem over the years!! We'll see how well they do, in the offseason and when next season comes around!!

Broncolingus
01-11-2010, 10:50 AM
Changes sure to start at line of scrimmage...

...ya think??!!

Tackle positions on both sides of the ball = priority 1

(IMO)

Dirk
01-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day but I'm sure if the buildings kept crumbling because the foundations were weak then they'd find a way to build a bigger, stronger foundations.


And I believe this is what they will be striving for. :salute:

Foundation building. O-LINE and D-LINE. The foundation to both sides of the ball.

arapaho2
01-11-2010, 12:29 PM
Let's see he is supposed to come in and coach last years team with no changes because they are incapable of doing anything else.

That makes sense for Pat to fire mike and hire a new guy that does not know crap about ZBS to make changes to his scheme so as to not upset arapho.

Makes sense to only those few that did not get he was brought in to change everything this team did the year before. Attitude, losers mentality, zero sum defense, great O between the 20's-but crap in the red zone, unspecial teams play, lousy coaching except at RB.

For those that thought mike was the cats ass you will never give any one else a chance.

For lots of folks that saw mike for what he was a GREAT OC we now get to see a complete HC that will take a year or so to make the transition to his schemes.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

again read my lips...cant be to hard to read can it?

i dont care if we change schemes...but lets not sit here crying about how the oline sucks now.....when they were not built for the power blocking scheme...get it?

and for the record...dennisen was kept as the oline coach...am i right?..he knew the zbs pretty well..right?...so its not like mcd had to coach a offensive scheme he knew nothing about...and that forced him into the PBS

TXBRONC
01-11-2010, 12:33 PM
mays is going to seriously disappoint someone if they spend a high pick on him. . . he has fantastic physical tools, but it seems like his instincts are off, and that's bad news for a safety. . . i think pro QBs will have no problems manipulating him with their eyes and pump fakes-- i see him being a player who's going to struggle a lot with taking poor angles, being out of position, and biting on play action and double moves. . .

i also don't agree at all with some of the sentiment i've seen about replacing DJ williams. . . yea, he missed some plays (who doesn't?), but he also made a ton for us. . . he was all over the field most weeks, was a big part of our stout run defense early in the year, and for the first time in his career he really showed off his speed in coverage drops and the few occasions where he was called on to blitz. . .

D.J. was far and away the better of our two inside linebackers. Davis was ok but D.J. out played him week in and week out. He had 122 total tackles of that 122 tackls only 22 of them were assists.

pnbronco
01-11-2010, 12:58 PM
Great posts Dirk and Traveler!!!

I think there was so much chaos in the off season and the D was so bad that they was just so much to do. I believe that the trenches will be something that the staff addresses in great detail this off season.

What gives me hope is that I had never heard of any of the guys they brought in for the D line this year. In fact I saw a couple of those guys after the game on Sunday and still didn't know who they were. I was shocked at how much better they play this year. So with another season or two I think they will have better personal to fit this system.

I didn't see anyone throwing the O line under the bus. What I've read and have expressed is that Harris was so much more of an anchor than I dreamed of. His replacement was a backup for a good reason. Ben got older and so did Casey. When you have D player getting to Moreno when he's being handed the ball there is a problem with the O line. I understand it's not just that black and white though. Orton was not as mobile as Cutler and Moreno was a rookie and could not read the holes as well as the vet Buck. The problem was that Buck was hurt for over half the season.

The other thing that gives me hope is that there is film for our team to study on ourselves in this scheme. On at least 2 of our home games our D players were running into each other and making a bigger hole for the other teams RB to run through. So the "just do your job" can be visually demonstrated.

Lonestar
01-11-2010, 01:22 PM
again read my lips...cant be to hard to read can it?

i dont care if we change schemes...but lets not sit here crying about how the oline sucks now.....when they were not built for the power blocking scheme...get it?

and for the record...dennisen was kept as the oline coach...am i right?..he knew the zbs pretty well..right?...so its not like mcd had to coach a offensive scheme he knew nothing about...and that forced him into the PBS

read my lips Mc Daniels wanted his scheme and kept Dennison to integrate it into his OLINE that was good the year before .. Josh said he wanted to add some ZBS to his scheme so that is why they kept him and Turner..

But if you did not noticed at the beginning of the year, we switched scheme when they thought the Oline could handle it.

Josh also said when he came to town that he wanted BIGGER FASTER STRONGER, smarter Players across the board.. he said he needed some 15 plus pounds better on the LOS for the coming year..

but as usual hamilton could not handle the pass protection and was marginal as a run blocker therefore was replaced.

while hockstein was marginally better the real kill shot was harris going down.

like it or not Pat wanted change and brought Josh in to do it.

they thought they had the manpower to make the change and guess what the 0line failed.

crap happens I would be very surprised not to see as many as 4 new OLINE guys next year with a minimum of TWO hamliton and Casey being gone or second string for casey and hamilton flat gone. maybe mike will offer him a job.

your correct the oline was indeed built for a finese team that Pat obviously wanted to get away from. therefore the changes that will be forthcoming will be necessary. brutal but necessary. because the OLINE did suck.

if you can't get that info through your processes we will have to agree to disagree. time to move on and embrace the changes that have been made and those that will be in the future. as they are here to stay.