Carson Palmer and the Bungles

[Overtime]

suck ******* ****. Carson Palmer is a fluke, a fake, a phony, and a fraud.

Nothing better than seeing them choke like usual. Overrated sack of fail.

The Bengals ain't shit, ain't never been shit, and ain't never gonna be shit.

[Dzone]

I could have sworn I saw Kyle Orton out there today. Feet in cement. Overthrows open receivers by a country mile. Looks pretty good once in a while. #9 looked like #8 today.

The only difference is that Palmer came into the league with huge expectations. He is just plain lousy. What a disappointment. Bengals seriously need to look into replacing him.

[Overtime]

That ******* idiot Chad Johnson...no I'm not calling him by that stupid retarded illegal name he went and got, he needs to just shut up, stop his dumb antics and play ball, because when it comes time for the games to really matter??? he can't put his money where his mouth is.

only 2 guys on that team that deserve any recognition this year.

Chinedum Ndukwe
Cedric Benson

both played solid football this year and gave a lot of effort.

Palmer was atrocious. Underthrows, throwing behind the receiver, too far to the left, overthrowing, leading too far, holding on to the ball too long, fumbling...he looked like a freakin' rookie. For a "supposedly" Top 5 QB, he sure looked like pure dog shit.

If the Broncos had made the playoffs, we'd have kicked their asses tonight.

[Dzone]

#85 was pathetic. Shut down by Rives again. He really should feel embarrassed, but he wont.

[KCL]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85637

[Broncolingus]

It's all my fault...

I'm was pulling for them...

[ursamajor]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85637

Ha!

[MileHighCrew]

I was pulling for them too.

[Ravage!!!]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85637

Now that has to be one of the BEST retorts using a forum link that I've ever seen! :laugh: :lol:

[Northman]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85637

Bwhahahahahhaha, oh man. Complete ownage. :lol:

[EMB6903]

I dont even think Chad Ocho Cinco is a top 10 receiver anymore, in fact heres 12 off the bat that I think are bigger threats.
(Not ranking)
1.Randy Moss
2.Larry Fitzgerald
3.Calvin Johnson
4.Greg Jennings
5.Brandon Marshall
6.Reggie Wayne
7.Andre Johnson
8.Steve Smith
9.Vincent Jackson
10.Anquan Boldin
11.Desean Jackson
12.Wes Welker

the guys just an over-rated talker. How much of a douchebag does he look after he talked all that trash to Revis only to get shut down?

[Poet]

Is this where I'm supposed to get all up in arms and be super upset?

I figured we were an 8-8 team this year, it was still a pretty good season for me.

[Northman]

I dont even think Chad Ocho Cinco is a top 10 receiver anymore, in fact heres 12 off the bat that I think are bigger threats.
(Not ranking)
1.Randy Moss
2.Larry Fitzgerald
3.Calvin Johnson
4.Greg Jennings
5.Brandon Marshall
6.Reggie Wayne
7.Andre Johnson
8.Steve Smith
9.Vincent Jackson
10.Anquan Boldin
11.Desean Jackson
12.Wes Welker

the guys just an over-rated talker. How much of a douchebag does he look after he talked all that trash to Revis only to get shut down?

For the record, this guy 11.Desean Jackson disappeared after talking a lot of junk too. Sometimes its just not your day.

[Poet]

Ocho Cinco put up pretty good numbers on a team that can't pass block, doesn't have another viable WR, and has a QB who was once a monster and is now only above average.

I'm not exactly a huge Chad guy, but he's still a top ten WR. Put his numbers in context.

And that drop in the end zone was unforgivable. Palmer threw a ball that only he could catch and gave him a chance to make a play. Palmer sucked balls that day, threw behind and over and sometimes both at his WR, but he gave Ocho a chance to make it a real ball game again.

But to act like the guy somehow isn't a top ten WR is beyond me.

Greg Jennings? Wes Welker? Jennings situation is much better than Chad's and Welker is a number two WR. Welker couldn't be a number one WR is his life depended upon it. If we traded those two for each other I'd probably drive to Cincinnati and slaughter Mike Brown and then promptly hang myself.

And don't get me wrong, I love me some DeSean Jackson, but the Eagles offense is stacked. They put to burners on the field with a stud TE and backs that can catch the ball and eventually someone will get open. Jackson isn't as dependable as Chad is.

:tsk:

Oh, Ndukwe sucks ass. He wasn't even a starter this year until Roy Williams got hurt. We're going to play a game, it's called "how many times has King87 seen Ndukwe royally **** us by going for the big hit or the pick and not the sound play" game. For this year I can literally recall that happening about ten times.

I have seen that guy get run over so many time's it's not funny. I've seen him whiff on tackles, get burned in coverage and embarrassed in the passing game. He has a flair for the big play, one way or another if you get my point.

I find it ironic that you try to talk about my team and not even know who is good and who is bad. Ndukwe is one of the worst players who sees regular action on our defense. What magical land do you live in? Especially considering any Bengals fan who is worth a damn will tell you that safety is one of our biggest needs.

And then for you to say "those are the only two who deserve any recognition" is laughable, AGAIN! Cincinnati has two beastly corners, but **** them, right? And Rey Maualuga played pretty well this year, but **** him right? And Keith Rivers and Dhani Jones played really well this year, but **** them, right?

Just for posterity's sake, I'm going to give you an accurate picture of the Cincinnati Bengals team.

Offense

Palmer- Above average, is hot and cold but won us 5 to 6 games on his back in the fourth quarter.

Kyle Cook- Center. Solid player who came in and exceeded expectations. Sometimes he isn't on the same page with Palmer and that needs to change.

Andrew Whitworth Left tackle. Should be a left guard like he was in years past. Was our best bet this year at LT and will probably get moved back to LG. Solid at run blocking at LT, not good at all at pass protection. Almost got Palmer maimed this year.

Andre Smith, Dennis Roland, Anthony Collins. Right Tackle. Andre Smith came in camp late and was overweight. When he got into the game he was an absolute stud and he's going to be an asset for this team next year, and you can take that to the ******* bank. Dennis Roland was our best consistent run blocker at RT this year but was the worst at pass blocking. Collins was decent as pass protection but horrid at run blocking. Andre Smith is the future, thank god.

Bobbie Williams Right Guard. I love this guy. He's good at everything, one of the best offensive lineman you've never heard of. He's getting up there in age but he's still a beast.

Nate Livings Average across the board. Our second best offensive lineman (right now) behind Whitworth.

So, recap is that our offensive line is good at run blocking and awful at pass protecting. This explain anything?

Reggie Kelly, Ben Utecht, J.P. Foschi, Daniel Coates Tight End. Reggie Kelly and Utecht were out for the year in training camp and preseason. Kelly tore his achilles and Utecht's career may be over via his 5th or 6th concussion. That leaves the failures of Foschi and Coates. They both suck at everything and whenever they're on the field I cry tears of shame and pain. Coates was only on the team because he could play at FB is Jeremi Johnson got hurt. Foschi has some supporters that I suspect, but it's my opinion that he's better served as a tackling dummy than at TE.

Cedric Benson Running Back. Absolute. Monster. Next.

Jeremi Johnson Fullback. Used to be a Pro Bowler. Now he's just a good player. Can't catch like he used to but can block well. Has a tendency to come into camp overweight for being lazy. Some people point to injuries that he's suffered for it but no football comes into camp 40 pounds overweight, period.

Ocho Cinco, Lavernous Coles, Andre Caldwell, Quan Cosby If you watch Bengals' games you'd know that Ocho is still a force. But, you don't so all I can say is consider the source. Coles is a dissapointment. He is no Houshmanzadeh, but we couldn't resign him because of cost so he got Coles. In theory it was a fantastic signing (that's another story), but only average results. Caldwell is going to be a good WR and exceeded expectations this year. He's still learning how to read defenses and run deep routes, but I have faith him. Is clutch as all get-out. Cosby is a small and pissed off wide-out. He's going to be decent, is a good special teams player.

Recap on wideouts - the fact that Ocho did what he did this year is impressive. Ocho versus the world.

On to the defense.

Leon Hall and Jonathan Joesph. Cincinnati has the best CB tandem in the NFL by far. We have two number one corners on our team. Our pass rush was only above average after Odom got hurt and these two have stifled almost every team they played. I wouldn't trade either of them. Leon Hall is a top five corner and J-Jo is a top ten corner.

Chris Crocker and the mighty and all-powerful Ndukwe. Crocker is a smart player who has phyiscal limitations. He's still solid and rarely makes mental mistakes. Doesn't need to be immediately replaced. Ndukwe aka the god, aka the beast, aka the truth, aka beastzilla, aka straight baller.....is a great backup. He was so good that when Shonn Greene ate his lunch he.....got treated like a punk bitch. We need to replace him.

Dhani Jones, Rey MAUALUGA!!!!!, Keith Rivers. Maualuga is a monster and if you don't believe me ask Brandon Marshall. He already is the heart and soul of this defense and has a chance to be one of the best defensive players in the league. Now, on the Bengals site I post on my name is literally 'MAUALUGA!!!!!', so take it with a grain of salt (no please do). Rivers is a good player who was a sure thing in the draft. He's good in coverage, a solid tackler, may get a pro bowl or two, but isn't a beast. He's good though. Jones is a solid MLB who makes plays. He is a tad bit slow, and I'm not sure how much longer he'll be playing, but he has earned his spot on the field. Notable backups for us are Brandon Johnson, who is a player that could start eventually, here or somewhere else. He's really strong in coverage, it's weird.

I love our linebackers. Absolutely. Love. Them.

Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Frostee Rucker, Jonathan Fanene. Defensive ends. Yes, we use that many. Part necessity, part Mike Zimmer loves to have fresh men on the field. Odom came into this own this year before that injury. I'm not sure how he'll bounce back, especially because he was only solid before this year. There's a chance that he just got off to a hot start, got hurt and looks like a monster when he really isn't. Time will tell. Geathers once looked like he was the future of defensive ends in Cincinnati, but that isn't the case. He's a solid player with a flair for disruption. I like him. Michael Johnson IS the future for defensive end in Cincinnati. He's raw but his talent level is tremendous. He's got the longest arms I've seen on a defensive end in a long time and honestly I expect this guy to become a perennial pro bowler in due time. Rucker is a good backup and can fill in as a starte pretty well. Fanene is great when he comes in for a few series because he just spends all his energy on a few plays and can overwhelm a tackle. He's not a guy you want to start for you.

I love our depth at defensive end.

Defensive tackle is another strong suite for us. Domato Peko is the best defensive lineman you've never heard of. He's gotten better every year and when he was out for about 5 games our defense wasn't the same. He's good at getting penetration on running plays and while he doesn't get many sacks he does demand that the men assigned to him stop him because he'll blow a hole in the LOS wide open. Tank Johnson is a solid player and he and Pat Sims trade a lot of playing time because of how Zimmer likes to rotate his guys.

In essence, with Zimmer as our defensive coordinator our defense is amongst the best in the league.

His contract is up, we need him back badly.

So there, you got an honest and accurate look at the Bengals team. Please don't do them the dishonor of speaking about them again since you have no concept....of..pretty much anything.

[EMB6903]

For the record, this guy 11.Desean Jackson disappeared after talking a lot of junk too. Sometimes its just not your day.

What does that have to do with him being a better reciever then Chad Ocho Cinco?

what a pointless attack.... Lol

[EMB6903]

You can give me oline reasons all you want, There is no way I would take him over any of the 12 I mentioned above.... and If so... who?

How is Jennings in a much better situation? Is Rodgers that much better of a QB? is Green Bays pass blocking Oline that much better? no way. I know how you love to give all the players you hype up excuses as to why they lack production but Chad isnt a top 10 WR in this league...

Hall and Joseph are studs, I like Cinci's CB's a lot... But Ill go with Revis and Lito as the top CB tandem in the league.

[Northman]

What does that have to do with him being a better reciever then Chad Ocho Cinco?

what a pointless attack.... Lol

From your original quote.


the guys just an over-rated talker. How much of a douchebag does he look after he talked all that trash to Revis only to get shut down?

And i just pointed to where you gave a lot of props to Jackson who is just as much a talker but got shut down. Struggling with that concept i see. :lol:

[Poet]

Jennings offensive line righted the ship and is solid. He also has other threats around him and a much better QB.

But somehow this: http://www.nfl.com/players/gregjennings/profile?id=JEN480468

Is better than this? http://www.nfl.com/players/chadochocinco/profile?id=JOH104425

Context is key.

Jennings has the better supporting cast by far and away and is marginally better in yards, much worse in TDS, slightly better in average and there's no way he sees as much double coverage as Ocho while Ocho plays against the Ravens and Steelers twice a year. Give me a break. No, he's not the top five WR he was a few years ago but Greg Jennings is not as good as Ocho. Ocho's numbers would be considerably better than Jennings if they switched teams.

[EMB6903]

From your original quote.



And i just pointed to where you gave a lot of props to Jackson who is just as much a talker but got shut down. Struggling with that concept i see. :lol:

Again... Did I say Jackson didnt look like a jackass for talking trash and not producing? Just because I think Jackson is the better WR doesnt mean I dont think hes an immature douche as well. Pay attention.

[Northman]

Again... Did I say Jackson didnt look like a jackass for talking trash and not producing? Just because I think Jackson is the better WR doesnt mean I dont think hes an immature douche as well. Pay attention.


So then your a hypocrite? Your going to claim one guy is a douche for not backing up his play yet not another. Thanks for clearing that up champ.

[EMB6903]

Jennings offensive line righted the ship and is solid. He also has other threats around him and a much better QB.

But somehow this: http://www.nfl.com/players/gregjennings/profile?id=JEN480468

Is better than this? http://www.nfl.com/players/chadochocinco/profile?id=JOH104425

Context is key.

Jennings has the better supporting cast by far and away and is marginally better in yards, much worse in TDS, slightly better in average and there's no way he sees as much double coverage as Ocho while Ocho plays against the Ravens and Steelers twice a year. Give me a break. No, he's not the top five WR he was a few years ago but Greg Jennings is not as good as Ocho. Ocho's numbers would be considerably better than Jennings if they switched teams.

You do it to yourself King. Really, You do.

Carson Palmer was sacked 26 times this year. Aaron Rodgers? 50? But yes you are completely right. Green Bays pass blocking is much better then Cinci's.

and in the past 3 seasons Jennings has 25 touchdowns in 45 games, Chad Ocho Cinco has 21 touchdowns in 45 games so the "much worse in TD's" comment is BS.

Face it, This isnt 2005 anymore. Chad Ocho Cinco is not a top 10 WR..

[EMB6903]

So then your a hypocrite? Your going to claim one guy is a douche for not backing up his play yet not another. Thanks for clearing that up champ.

Didnt I just say Desean Jackson was a douchebag?

North, At this point you are just arguing to argue. Im sorry if I offended your buddy!

[Poet]

You do it to yourself King. Really, You do.

Carson Palmer was sacked 26 times this year. Aaron Rodgers? 50? But yes you are completely right. Green Bays pass blocking is much better then Cinci's.

and in the past 3 seasons Jennings has 25 touchdowns in 45 games, Chad Ocho Cinco has 21 touchdowns in 45 games so the "much worse in TD's" comment is BS.

Face it, This isnt 2005 anymore. Chad Ocho Cinco is not a top 10 WR..
Rodgers was blasted all year long for holding onto the ball too long, especially in an offense predicated on short quick passes.

How many Bengal games did you watch?

Now ask me how many Packer games I saw.

And then we can go from.

And this is how I know you're an ignorant poster, you go into arguments without knowing jack shit. You never even thought to factor in that last year CJ got a grand total of 5 games with Palmer as his QB.

[Northman]

Didnt I just say Desean Jackson was a douchebag?

North, At this point you are just arguing to argue. Im sorry if I offended your buddy!

Oh, you didnt offend me. But i was looking for a little more consistency with your arguement regarding the top NFL receivers. When you initially listed them the only arguement you gave was the "talking trash" bit. If you want to go into more detail about why you think Jackson is better than Ocho than im all ears. Right now, the arguement you laid out is weak at best.

[BroncoAV06]

Epic! Hater starts a hatin thread and gets owned!

Chad talks alot its what he does. But he backs it up, when he fails he owns up to it. Overall he is also just one funny dude.

[EMB6903]

Rodgers was blasted all year long for holding onto the ball too long, especially in an offense predicated on short quick passes.

How many Bengal games did you watch?

Now ask me how many Packer games I saw.

And then we can go from.

And this is how I know you're an ignorant poster, you go into arguments without knowing jack shit. You never even thought to factor in that last year CJ got a grand total of 5 games with Palmer as his QB.



For Packers offensive lineman Daryn Colledge, who was on the receiving end of Odom's single-handed dismantling of the offensive line, the fallout from the Bengals' 31-24 win Sunday was nightmarish.

``I had some complete meltdowns,'' Colledge said. ``That's just unacceptable.''

Colledge struggled after he moved from left guard to left tackle to replace injured veteran Chad Clifton early in the second half. In all, the Bengals sacked Aaron Rodgers six times.

``You've got to keep the quarterback safe if you want to win in this game,'' tight end Donald Lee said.

Following a preseason in which a revamped offensive line kept Rodgers more or less untouched, the suddenly maligned and injury-riddled unit has allowed 10 sacks through two games.

``Our pass protection is a negative right now,'' Packers coach Mike McCarthy said.


http://www.lacrossetribune.com/sports/article_d485a5f0-a660-11de-8981-001cc4c03286.html

Like I said, you do it to yourself King.

But instead of putting out facts to make up your argumenet keep up with the... "Well I watched more Bengal games then you!" crap.

[EMB6903]

Oh, you didnt offend me. But i was looking for a little more consistency with your arguement regarding the top NFL receivers. When you initially listed them the only arguement you gave was the "talking trash" bit. If you want to go into more detail about why you think Jackson is better than Ocho than im all ears. Right now, the arguement you laid out is weak at best.

Desean Jackson averaged 18.5 yards per reception in a west coast offense, thats unbelievable... in just his 2nd year he had 63 receptions 1100+ yards and 13 overall touchdowns. Hes more versatile , faster, more dangerous with the ball in his hands and much more of a playmaker then Chad is.

is that enough of an argument?

[slim]

Dear King,

Please change your "Custom User Title".

It is freaking me out.

Your Friend,

slim

[Poet]

Ironically since about week 9 people have been praising the turnaround of the Packer's offensive line.

Or do you not read articles and watch television?

Slim,

I hate to have to post this, but I don't know if I can oblige. You've abandoned me...again. What's a fat man to do when the other fatties are flakey?

[Poet]

Desean Jackson averaged 18.5 yards per reception in a west coast offense, thats unbelievable... in just his 2nd year he had 63 receptions 1100+ yards and 13 overall touchdowns. Hes more versatile , faster, more dangerous with the ball in his hands and much more of a playmaker then Chad is.

is that enough of an argument?

The onus on the Eagles offense this year was the deep ball.

My god, you really have no idea....I actually pity you.

Jackson is a much better return man and special teams player than Chad.

BUT HIS RECEIVING STATS ARE EERILY SIMILIAR AND HE'S NOT THE ONLY THREAT ON OFFENSE.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

[EMB6903]

Ironically since about week 9 people have been praising the turnaround of the Packer's offensive line.

Or do you not read articles and watch television?

Slim,

I hate to have to post this, but I don't know if I can oblige. You've abandoned me...again. What's a fat man to do when the other fatties are flakey?

You mean now that they are healthy?

Were you watching in the beginning of the year when the media was making a big deal about Packers oline concerns at LT with Clifton out?

I remember when Jared Allen sacked Rodgers 4 times in a game with Colledge playing at LT. and lets not forget Packers gave up 50 sacks in a WCO.

Cinci's pass blocking was much better then Green Bay's this year.

[EMB6903]

The onus on the Eagles offense this year was the deep ball.

My god, you really have no idea....I actually pity you.

Jackson is a much better return man and special teams player than Chad.

BUT HIS RECEIVING STATS ARE EERILY SIMILIAR AND HE'S NOT THE ONLY THREAT ON OFFENSE.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?


thats all you have King, BS excuses as to why the players you hype up lack production... Remember when you tried telling me Mcfadden was better then Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Cedric Benson, and Johnathon Stewart? even back then you made up BS excuses as to why Mcfadden doesnt produce.

Never facts backing up your argument, just BS excuses.. It gets played out.

Jackson is not only a better special teams player then Ocho Cinco hes a better football player. Also quit saying Chad has no other offensive weapon. Before this year he was playing with a #1 reciever his entire career.. and even this year he wasnt the best offensive player on his team alone, that went to Cedric Benson.

[Northman]

Desean Jackson averaged 18.5 yards per reception in a west coast offense, thats unbelievable... in just his 2nd year he had 63 receptions 1100+ yards and 13 overall touchdowns. Hes more versatile , faster, more dangerous with the ball in his hands and much more of a playmaker then Chad is.

is that enough of an argument?

He is a playmaker which has never been denied by me. However, he also has a fellow roster of Maclin, Curtis, Celek, and Westbrook when healthy. Ocho is the ONLY viable receiving threat that Cincy has. Benson is good but nowhere near the talent of Westbrook especially in the receiving game. So while Jackson has some great talent he hasnt been forced to be the only option for his QB. The problem in the receiving game Jackson is just one dimensional. He isnt going to make the spectacular or tough catches that Ocho will make in traffic. Jackson is a burner with lots of talent around him thats about it. However, there are other players in your list i would take over Ocho but Ocho would still at least make my top ten list. Easily.

[EMB6903]

He is a playmaker which has never been denied by me. However, he also has a fellow roster of Maclin, Curtis, Celek, and Westbrook when healthy. Ocho is the ONLY viable receiving threat that Cincy has. Benson is good but nowhere near the talent of Westbrook especially in the receiving game. So while Jackson has some great talent he hasnt been forced to be the only option for his QB. The problem in the receiving game Jackson is just one dimensional. He isnt going to make the spectacular or tough catches that Ocho will make in traffic. Jackson is a burner with lots of talent around him thats about it. However, there are other players in your list i would take over Ocho but Ocho would still at least make my top ten list. Easily.

Maclin wasnt much of a threat this year, sure he had a few games but I'd say Coles was just as much of a compliment to Johnson as Maclin was to Jackson.

and what players would you take Ocho over on my list? The only one I could really see as a debate would be Greg Jennings.

[Northman]

Maclin wasnt much of a threat this year, sure he had a few games but I'd say Coles was just as much of a compliment to Johnson as Maclin was to Jackson.

and what players would you take Ocho over on my list? The only one I could really see as a debate would be Greg Jennings.


My top 10 right now would be:

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Andre Johnson
3. Brandon Marshall
4. Steve Smith
5. Chad Ochocinco
6. Randy Moss
7. Donald Driver
8. Roddy White
9. Greg Jennings
10. Calvin Johnson

[KCL]

My top 10 right now would be:

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Andre Johnson
3. Brandon Marshall
4. Steve Smith
5. Chad Ochocinco
6. Randy Moss
7. Donald Driver
8. Roddy White
9. Greg Jennings
10. Calvin Johnson

No love for Chris Chambers,Leonard Pope and what's his name Cooper? :lol:Seriously the last 2 I mentioned were big factors in that first KC drive but Chambers was a good pickup for the Chiefs...joined us a few games after the season started...not sure what his stats were in those games.

[Northman]

No love for Chris Chambers,Leonard Pope and what's his name Cooper? :lol:Seriously the last 2 I mentioned were big factors in that first KC drive but Chambers was a good pickup for the Chiefs...joined us a few games after the season started...not sure what his stats were in those games.


Meh, Bowe is someone who i thought had potential to be a really good playmaker. Chambers has moments but a lot of the guys that EMB listed are more situational guys and not true playmakers unless they are on ST's or running screen routes. Playmakers are the guys who can make something out of nothing and Ocho is one of those guys.

[KCL]

Meh, Bowe is someone who i thought had potential to be a really good playmaker. Chambers has moments but a lot of the guys that EMB listed are more situational guys and not true playmakers unless they are on ST's or running screen routes. Playmakers are the guys who can make something out of nothing and Ocho is one of those guys.

Bowe will be ok...he screwed up this season...Chambers usually never drops a pass..something that has happened all season to the Chiefs.

Charles is by far our biggest playmaker.

[dogfish]

that whole "he's the only offensive threat on his team" argument cuts both ways. . . yea, it means the guy has to consistently fight through double teams-- OTOH, it also means the team is likely to lean on him, increasing his opportunities. . . calvin johnson put up 1,300+ yards and 12 TDs last year on an 0-16 team with NO other weapons. . . tony gonzalez got force fed the ball so much over the course of his career that he put up the best numbers of all time at the position. . . fantasy football players know that being the only threat on your team doesn't necessarily lead to decreased production. . . there are tons of examples. . .

[Poet]

that whole "he's the only offensive threat on his team" argument cuts both ways. . . yea, it means the guy has to consistently fight through double teams-- OTOH, it also means the team is likely to lean on him, increasing his opportunities. . . calvin johnson put up 1,300+ yards and 12 TDs last year on an 0-16 team with NO other weapons. . . tony gonzalez got force fed the ball so much over the course of his career that he put up the best numbers of all time at the position. . . fantasy football players know that being the only threat on your team doesn't necessarily lead to decreased production. . . there are tons of examples. . .

True, however he's not a gigantic tight end who faces linebackers and he's not playing with a QB who is going to make stupid risky throws to him regardless of the coverage.

Factor in that Cincinnati ran the ball like 32 times a game for the 4th most in the league because they suck at pass blocking and it's pretty easy to see that it isn't Ocho that's ******* up.

[Northman]

True, however he's not a gigantic tight end who faces linebackers and he's not playing with a QB who is going to make stupid risky throws to him regardless of the coverage.

Factor in that Cincinnati ran the ball like 32 times a game for the 4th most in the league because they suck at pass blocking and it's pretty easy to see that it isn't Ocho that's ******* up.

Yea, no one's going to convince me that Ocho isnt a great receiver. I dont know what happened to Palmer but he just isnt the same since his knee injury. Put Ocho on Chargers, Saints, etc and he would be lighting it up. The Detroit example is misleading as they dont have a running game and are always forced to play catchup or even just keep up with the passing game.

[EMB6903]

Meh, Bowe is someone who i thought had potential to be a really good playmaker. Chambers has moments but a lot of the guys that EMB listed are more situational guys and not true playmakers unless they are on ST's or running screen routes. Playmakers are the guys who can make something out of nothing and Ocho is one of those guys.

Every single one of the players I named are more of a playmaker than Chad Ocho Cinco is and have been for the past 3 years, Like I said earlier, This isnt 2004 anymore.

when have you ever seen Ocho Cinco take a 2 yard hitch route and turn it into a 60 yard touchdown like Desean Jackson? When do you ever see him breaking off tackles like Brandon Marshall? I will admit Chad Ocho Cinco has GREAT ball skills, one of the best in the league. He can go up and get it with the best of them. But dont feed me that BS that he makes plays out of nowhere and guys like I named dont. Saying Desean Jackson and Greg Jennings are "situational" WRs. Ignorance at its finest.

Each one of the players I named I think are more versatile offensively then Ocho Cinco.

I know an Elite wr doesnt need excuses as to why his production is low. What other big playmaker did Brandon Marshall play with this year? Where was the great running game that opened up the passing game? Why was he able to haul in 100+ receptions 1100+ yards recieving and 10+ tds having no chemistry leading up to this year with Kyle Orton having missed majority of training camp?

[Poet]

2007 Ocho was a beast, the next year he became a whiny vagina and this year he played great considering his circumstances.

You're out of touch with reality.

[EMB6903]

2007 Ocho was a beast, the next year he became a whiny vagina and this year he played great considering his circumstances.

You're out of touch with reality.

"circumstances"

you always have an excuse for a player.

But in all reality Marshall shouldnt have caught 50 passes this year. He was a pissy bitch all offseason, was booted from practice at one point and never really had any real live reps with Kyle Orton until week 1. But unlike your boy Chad hes a real ELITE reciever, he went out and racked up 100+ receptions in 10 td's in limited action.

Excuses are for losers... But hey youre a Bengals fan, what else should I expect?

[Poet]

"circumstances"

you always have an excuse for a player.

But in all reality Marshall shouldnt have caught 50 passes this year. He was a pissy bitch all offseason, was booted from practice at one point and never really had any real live reps with Kyle Orton until week 1. But unlike your boy Chad hes a real ELITE reciever, he went out and racked up 100+ receptions in 10 td's in limited action.

Excuses are for losers... But hey youre a Bengals fan, what else should I expect?

You've lost your damn mind. I should have known better than to expect anything intelligent from you. Marshall is a better WR than CJ is now, but he certainly wasn't a better WR this year than Ocho was in his prime. Go take a look at his numbers, jackass. :lol:

You're actually pretty stupid because all you do is look at numbers without context. Why would I expect CJ to not outproduce Jennings if he was a packer? Or DeSean Jackson, who you drool over? Why wouldn't I when I know that Ocho's career numbers are better and that he's putting up good numbers on a shitty offense?

I have an understanding for the game, you don't. And don't even try to talk to me about being a loser, at least I'm not the laughing stock of a message board. I still remember watching your whine and cry about getting torn up in the P and R, talk to me about being a loser.

I was born in Cincinnati and stuck with my team. At least you know I'm a loyal fan, and it's obvious to anyone who isn't a ******* retard (like yourself) that I at least have an inkling as to what I'm talking about.

But if I'm a loser for being as Bengals fan, then someone Patriot fans and Steeler fans are 'winners'. So that'd make you an idiot for calling someone a loser for cheering for a bad team when you're rooting for a franchise that isn't amongst the elite in the NFL.

A fan's team doesn't tell you shit about them other than who they root for.

And I damn near lost my mind you tried to tell me that a SLOT receiver is better than a number one. Let me help you out with something; when you're a number two WR it means that you're generally incapable of beating double teams, being a scoring threat and a field stretcher.

Teams don't double Welker, he's not a real scoring threat and he's not a field stretcher. He's a fine player but his play gets set up by his number one WR, Randy Moss.

I used to have the same conversation with the fans who thought T.J. was better than Ocho.

I know what I'm getting with Ocho, and I still think he'd outproduce Vincent Jackson if he was a Charger, Jennings if he was a Packer, and Boldin if he was a Cardinal.

I know damn well he'd outproduce Jackson if he was an Eagle, and the rest of the guys on that list are flat out better than him.

But, I should know better than to argue with a guy who thinks Dunlap is a better prospect than Suh. :lol:

[Medford Bronco]

2007 Ocho was a beast, the next year he became a whiny vagina and this year he played great considering his circumstances.

You're out of touch with reality.

YOu guys really missed TJ Whosyourmamma this year.

and the tragedy of Chris Henry did not help either.
Benson had a great year and I still believe should be in the Pro Bowl.

I was rooting hard for Cincy. You are a good guy and I cant stand Rex Arrogant Ryan that jerk. A jerk just like his dad.

[ursamajor]

YOu guys really missed TJ Whosyourmamma this year.

and the tragedy of Chris Henry did not help either.
Benson had a great year and I still believe should be in the Pro Bowl.

I was rooting hard for Cincy. You are a good guy and I cant stand Rex Arrogant Ryan that jerk. A jerk just like his dad.

I loved his dad. Maybe why I like Rex too.

[dogfish]

I loved his dad. Maybe why I like Rex too.

rex amuses me-- he's like a clown. . .


the guy's obviously a blowhard, but at least he's not a cold-hearted, lying, cheating at every chance (on the field and on his wife) piece of garbage like bill belichick, who's just as arrogant as ryan if not more so and a vile human being on top of it. . .

i loved it when ryan said he wasn't there to kiss belly's rings, and i hope his jets trample the pansies every time they play them. . .


not that i actually expect rex to last-- he's a damn good coordinator, but his rah rah shit won't work for long as a head coach. . .

[Northman]

I know an Elite wr doesnt need excuses as to why his production is low. What other big playmaker did Brandon Marshall play with this year? Where was the great running game that opened up the passing game? Why was he able to haul in 100+ receptions 1100+ yards recieving and 10+ tds having no chemistry leading up to this year with Kyle Orton having missed majority of training camp?

Where did i say Brandon sucked? Where did i list Brandon in my list? :lol:

[Medford Bronco]

I loved his dad. Maybe why I like Rex too.

Great coordinator with Chicago but sucky as a HC
and was a jerk in Houston when he punched the OC in the face


His son like dogfish said is a clown. Printing up a Super Bowl schedule with parade. That is okay to be kept inhouse but to the media it is a joke. esp with a rookie QB. I think SD kills them this week.

[EMB6903]

Where did i say Brandon sucked? Where did i list Brandon in my list? :lol:

the post you quoted was to King becuase he always has excuses as to the lack of production, not you.

I would love to know how the WR's I named are "situational" guys like you said.

[EMB6903]

You've lost your damn mind. I should have known better than to expect anything intelligent from you. Marshall is a better WR than CJ is now, but he certainly wasn't a better WR this year than Ocho was in his prime. Go take a look at his numbers, jackass. :lol:

You're actually pretty stupid because all you do is look at numbers without context. Why would I expect CJ to not outproduce Jennings if he was a packer? Or DeSean Jackson, who you drool over? Why wouldn't I when I know that Ocho's career numbers are better and that he's putting up good numbers on a shitty offense?

I have an understanding for the game, you don't. And don't even try to talk to me about being a loser, at least I'm not the laughing stock of a message board. I still remember watching your whine and cry about getting torn up in the P and R, talk to me about being a loser.

I was born in Cincinnati and stuck with my team. At least you know I'm a loyal fan, and it's obvious to anyone who isn't a ******* retard (like yourself) that I at least have an inkling as to what I'm talking about.

But if I'm a loser for being as Bengals fan, then someone Patriot fans and Steeler fans are 'winners'. So that'd make you an idiot for calling someone a loser for cheering for a bad team when you're rooting for a franchise that isn't amongst the elite in the NFL.

A fan's team doesn't tell you shit about them other than who they root for.

And I damn near lost my mind you tried to tell me that a SLOT receiver is better than a number one. Let me help you out with something; when you're a number two WR it means that you're generally incapable of beating double teams, being a scoring threat and a field stretcher.

Teams don't double Welker, he's not a real scoring threat and he's not a field stretcher. He's a fine player but his play gets set up by his number one WR, Randy Moss.

I used to have the same conversation with the fans who thought T.J. was better than Ocho.

I know what I'm getting with Ocho, and I still think he'd outproduce Vincent Jackson if he was a Charger, Jennings if he was a Packer, and Boldin if he was a Cardinal.

I know damn well he'd outproduce Jackson if he was an Eagle, and the rest of the guys on that list are flat out better than him.

But, I should know better than to argue with a guy who thinks Dunlap is a better prospect than Suh. :lol:




Also Marshall has been in this league 4 years, he has yet to reach his "prime"

but I can assure you he will be much better then Chad Ocho Cinco was.

Bengals have a solid QB, a very sharp run game. a SOLID OFFENSE around Chad. quit it with the BS excuses.


"IF HE WAS AN _______ HE WOULD OUT PRODUCE _______" <~~~ this is your argument, thats it. and Im done with it. You never explain why a player is better, just that hes much better and if he were on another team he'd produce more. It gets played out having somebody use as many excuses as you do. You put up no football argument what so ever, All you have are excuses and name calling. Sign of desperation. As for the Dunlap being a better prospect then Suh I made that list in May right after the 2009 draft and did think Dunlap was a better prospect. as for now? I think Suh the best prospect, along with McClain ranked ahead of Spikes.

Have a nice day!

[Poet]

Also Marshall has been in this league 4 years, he has yet to reach his "prime"

but I can assure you he will be much better then Chad Ocho Cinco was.

When Marshall leads the AFC in receiving yards once, talk to me. When he does it four times in a row, then he's as good as Chad was. When he's done it five times then he's better than Chad was.


Bengals have a solid QB, a very sharp run game. a SOLID OFFENSE around Chad. quit it with the BS excuses.

The Bengals have an above average QB, a good running game, a terrible pass blocking offensive line, a terrible TE duo, an underachieving number two who can't get open, a number three WR who was expected to be the number four before Henry got hurt and....you're right he's got a real solid cast. :lol:



"IF HE WAS AN _______ HE WOULD OUT PRODUCE _______" <~~~ this is your argument, thats it. and Im done with it. You never explain why a player is better, just that hes much better and if he were on another team he'd produce more. It gets played out having somebody use as many excuses as you do. You put up no football argument what so ever, All you have are excuses and name calling. Sign of desperation. As for the Dunlap being a better prospect then Suh I made that list in May right after the 2009 draft and did think Dunlap was a better prospect. as for now? I think Suh the best prospect, along with McClain ranked ahead of Spikes.

Have a nice day!

That's the problem with your stupid ass, I have explained it, I've explained it a thousand times over. Two years ago he was amongst the best WRs, the next year he holds out and mails it in an has a bad stat year. The year after that he plays on the shitty offense and does as well as anyone could expect him to do, and the guy who will have a real shot at the HOF doesn't get the benefit of the doubt over DeSean Jackson and Greg Jennings? Yeah, clearly I'm the one who doesn't explain anything :lol:

You are a silly, silly man. Not only for not changing your prospect list but for trying to tell me that I'm wrong for looking at how a player would do if he was in a certain situation.

Hai guyz, I'm EMB234840894, I think dat Brandon Marshall wuld put up az goody #"s if he wuz on teh Bearz.

That's essentially what you're saying. Yes, Brandon Marshall is the better WR of the two. So is Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne and other players.

But Greg Jennings? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Bozo Jr.]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85637

Spanked! :eek:

[Ravage!!!]

Great coordinator with Chicago but sucky as a HC
and was a jerk in Houston when he punched the OC in the face
Which was Jeff Fisher

[Medford Bronco]

Which was Jeff Fisher

I like Jeff Fisher as well. His head coaching record was much better than Ryans (the dad)

[dogfish]

Which was Jeff Fisher

actually, it was kevin gilbride. . .


http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/wildcoaches.html

[Ravage!!!]

actually, it was kevin gilbride. . .


http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/wildcoaches.html

DAMNIT.. you are right. I always get those two mixed up.. I think they are twins in my head. :lol::tsk: :confused:

[ursamajor]

Which was Jeff Fisher

Jeff Fisher sharpened his coaching chops under Buddy. He was a Bears safety who suffered injury, and became Ryan's unofficial assistant on that '85 team.

[ursamajor]

...and was a jerk in Houston when he punched the OC in the face

He hated the spread offense. Wha can I say?

[Ravage!!!]

He hated the spread offense. Wha can I say?

Says that he has this same common quality with most in Denver!!!! :laugh: