Your draft board for #12

[dogfish]

we all have our guy, or guys, that we think the broncos should draft, and sometimes the arguments get pretty heated. . . some people are open-minded and willing to consider a variety of players and scenarios, and some get completely fixated on one individual, and adamantly insist that denver "needs" to draft this guy. . . but the coaches and front office people actually preparing for the draft don't have the luxury of focusing on one player, unless they've got the top pick. . . i think it's fun to see people create mock draft boards-- of course, no one is going to take the time to simulate the elaborate and lengthy draft boards that teams really use, but it's easy enough to make one for a single pick, based on the players who are projected to be available in that range (IMO, there's little point in including guys like ellis or long -- yes, you would probably take them, but there's little chance that they'll be there, although theoretically anything is possible). . .

and yes, i know that a lot of us would be happy to trade down from that spot and acquire more picks, and i'm also aware that it's impossible to formulate a board properly without knowing what trades and/or moves in free agency we're going to make. . . but WTH, let us see your thoughts as they stack up now, assuming that 1. we don't cut or move anyone significant besides the guys who are already on the block, 2. none of the top prospects blows out a knee or is caught with a dead hooker and two keys of coke in his trunk between now and the draft, and 3. we are unable to trade down from #12 and have to pick there?

based on those assumptions, i think this is how my board would stack up ATM:


1. jonathon stewart
2. reshard mendenhall
3. ryan clady
4. dan connor
5. keith rivers
6. derrick harvey


no need to go further right now, as i think it's virtually certain that at least one of those guys will be available at 12 (probably more, if not all of them)-- or if not, it means that one of the elite prospects has slipped. . .


anyways, what's your board look like right now?

[shank]

dog, mine would look just like yours except i have rivers over connor (since he added some weight to go with his superior [to connor] athleticism). i hope we don't need to draft a guy like merling or harvey, but after that many options, if we are stuck at 12, there's really no other place to go.

(and i NEVER thought i would want to take a RB in the 1st this year, it just sort of worked out that way.)

EDIT: oh, i also have dorsey at the top of mine. with the rumors of stress fractures, it's possible that he actually drops to 12.

[BOSSHOGG30]

1) Glenn Dorsey
2) Sedrick Ellis
3) Chris Long
4) Jonathan Stewart
5) Reshard Mendenhall
6) Vernon Gholston
7) Phillip Merling
8) Jake Long
9) Lawerence Jackson
10) Trevor Laws
11) Branden Albert
12) Devin Thomas or James Hardy

[Drill-N-Fill]

1. Dorsey
2. Clady
3. Gholston
4. Otah
5. Williams

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Realistically, IF WE STAY AT #12 these are the only names that would not cause me to vomit:

Kenny Phillips...call me stubborn, but I'm still not sold he's dropping that far.
Derrick Harvey
Jeff Otah/Chris Williams...don't care which
Rashard Mendenhall
Jon Stewart
Dan Connor
Keith Rivers
Phillip Merling
Ryan Clady
Kentwan Balmer...he has put on some weight making him more intriguing to me

[Requiem / The Dagda]

There is no players, it says trade down. :D

[dogfish]

There is no players, it says trade down. :D

so what do you do if you don't get a worthwhile offer, sit there with your thumb up your ass like the minnesota vikings and watch other teams pick. . . .?



:laugh:

[lex]

There is no players, it says trade down. :D

Conjugate much?


1. Mendenhall
2. Chris Williams
3. Jon Stewart
4. Trade down... check out my mock draft for details

[Scarface]

In no particular order:

Clady
C.Williams
B.Albert
Mendenhall
Stewart

[Skinny]

4. dan connor
5. keith riversMikey & Co. have done well with selecting LBs in the 1st round ...

John Mobley
Al Wilson
DJ Williams

I think it's a strong possibility we go that route again .. if we stay at #12 or not. Of course alot may depend on what we do in FA ... but right now that's about what my board looks like. Especially if we pick up someone like Rogers or Robertson ...

[Simple Jaded]

1) Ryan Clady
2) Chris Williams
3) Jonathon Stewart
4) Rashard Mendehall
5) Derrick Harvey
6) Malcolm Kelly
7) Anybody but a safety
8) Anybody but Phillip Merling......

[turftoad]

Seems to me by the picks, that some guys are forgetting that we had the 30th ranked run defense and gave up over 400 points (28th in the league) last year.
Now I do understand and agree with whole value at #12 thing. That being said, I looked up a bunch of mock drafts today. Many so called experts had us going with Conner. At this point I may have to agree. I'd rather see us move down at this point but if we stay put and Dorsey & Ellis are both gone I'd have to say.

Dan Conner LB

[dogfish]

Seems to me by the picks, that some guys are forgetting that we had the 30th ranked run defense and gave up over 400 points (28th in the league) last year.
Now I do understand and agree with whole value at #12 thing. That being said, I looked up a bunch of mock drafts today. Many so called experts had us going with Conner. At this point I may have to agree. I'd rather see us move down at this point but if we stay put and Dorsey & Ellis are both gone I'd have to say.

Dan Conner LB

i wouldn't mind connor, but i think stewart and mendenhall both have the potential to be much better players who will have a greater impact on our team. . . i also think that getting another solid DT (preferably a big one-technique) is even more crucial for shoring up the run efense. . . besides which, i'd rather hold out hope for maualuga next year if we're going to spend another 1st on a LB. . . i do think connor is a safe pick, and i'd take him on my team any day, but i'm not so confident that he's going to be the type of elite talent you'd like to get when you pick this high. . .

[UnderArmour]

I don't think we should go RB first round. Draft is way too deep there and with talent like Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson and Ray Rice who will likely still be on the board at our 2nd pick we should just wait. Personally, I'm hoping we end up with Ray Rice or Chris Johnson in the 2nd.

[turftoad]

I don't think we should go RB first round. Draft is way too deep there and with talent like Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson and Ray Rice who will likely still be on the board at our 2nd pick we should just wait. Personally, I'm hoping we end up with Ray Rice or Chris Johnson in the 2nd.

I agree but I'd rather have Matt Forte if we're going to do that. I really like the guys you've mentioned but would opt for the larger back at this point.

[dogfish]

I don't think we should go RB first round. Draft is way too deep there and with talent like Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson and Ray Rice who will likely still be on the board at our 2nd pick we should just wait. Personally, I'm hoping we end up with Ray Rice or Chris Johnson in the 2nd.

i'd be fine with charles, or possibly rice, but i don't want steve slaton aka reggie bush lite, and i'm not sure i'd spend the high pick it'll take to get johnson, either (although he does offer great potential in the return game with that speed :eek: ). . . they're more running back by committee guys, and i'd love to see us get a real hoss again, a guy who can take over games down the stretch instead of sitting on the bench sucking wind. . . i'd probably take G's guy forte over slaton or johnson. . .

and ultimately, value is one of the main reason i like stewart and mendenhall best at #12-- it's JMO that they're going to be superior players to most of the other guys projected in that range. . . i hate taking guys just to fill immediate holes, and finding out two years down the road that you passed up ed reed to take ashley lilly. . . :frusty: if need be, i'd rather suffer through another crap year or two to build a monster team that can seriously contend from year to year the way indy and new england have recently, than continue to try reloading on the fly and always falling short because we have a bunch of mediocre talent. . . again, obviously JMO, and there are a number of scenaros that i would be pretty pleased with-- that's why i like to see people put up an actual board, instead of just debating it like "we should take this guy". . .

[Requiem / The Dagda]

so what do you do if you don't get a worthwhile offer, sit there with your thumb up your ass like the minnesota vikings and watch other teams pick. . . .?



:laugh:

Hell yeah!

[JONtheBRONCO]

I'm really not sure yet. The easy pick is a RB. But the smart pick is a defender (DT, LB), or an Offensive Tackle.

[Broncoschic7]

Protect Cutler first and foremost, then defensive line / LB, so on and so forth. I would start there and then go RB and WR,, if the those other areas were addressed first.


Long and Mendenhall were two of my faves during the combine.

[Scarface]

Seems to me by the picks, that some guys are forgetting that we had the 30th ranked run defense and gave up over 400 points (28th in the league) last year.
Now I do understand and agree with whole value at #12 thing. That being said, I looked up a bunch of mock drafts today. Many so called experts had us going with Conner. At this point I may have to agree. I'd rather see us move down at this point but if we stay put and Dorsey & Ellis are both gone I'd have to say.

Dan Conner LB

12 isn't a good spot for defense. Too low for one of the tackles and too high for LB's or safties.

[dogfish]

one other thing worth pointing out-- stewart and mendenhall are both just 20 years old (stewart will be 21 before the draft), as opposed to connor, who is 23. . . not an over-riding factor by itself, but when you're talking 1st round pick and big guaranteed money, every little detail bears examining. . .


i like my RBs like my girlies-- young and healthy! :lol:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

That's why I prefer Geno Hayes over Xavier Adibi. Age.

[Npba900]

Protect Cutler first and foremost, then defensive line / LB, so on and so forth. I would start there and then go RB and WR,, if the those other areas were addressed first.


Long and Mendenhall were two of my faves during the combine.


I'm all for protecting Cutler as well, however, drafting an OT rookie in 2008, that rookie OT may not be experienced enough to protect Cutler in 2008; So for protecting Cutler immediately, Denver needs to find that stud-veteran OT in FA, to protect Cutler.

[broncohead]

Connor or Rivers at 12 would be a safe pick IMO. Helps our run-D. Bringing in an unproven rookie tackle doesn't exactly mean protection right away. A vetran guy would be ideal for immediat impact like Npba said. Best value for us would to trade down and pick up positions of need.

[fcspikeit]

1. Sedrick Ellis (If he falls)
2. Jake Long (If he falls)
3. Chris Long (if he falls)
4. Glen Dorsey (if he falls)

If none of those guys fall I say we trade back because everyone else I believe we could get 14 to 20.

Imo these 4 are the only real standouts at our positions of need

[fcspikeit]

1. Sedrick Ellis (If he falls)
2. Jake Long (If he falls)
3. Chris Long (if he falls)
4. Glen Dorsey (if he falls)

If none of those guys fall I say we trade back because everyone else I believe we could get 14 to 20.

Imo these 4 are the only real standouts at our positions of need

Assuming those 4 are gone, and we can't trade up or back I feel we will have to reach.. In that case I would like to see us pick Trever Laws unless we got Rogers or another starting caliber DT, then I say we get Conner or Rivers..

I know some would say we need to draft O-line. I agree but I am not that impressed with what is left after Long. IMO everyone after Long has a high risk of busting. We can take the same risk in the second + rounds on the remaining O-lineman

[CoachChaz]

I'd be happy with any of the following...

Clady...no one says a rookie can't start and I'd already say he's better than Pears.

Phillips...not buying the BS that he's dropping to round 2. Buffalo was laughed at when they drafted Whitner and he turned out to pretty damn good.

Stewart...Gotta love a big back with alot of heart that can do everything well.

IF we went LB, I'd prefer Rivers over Connor.

[Lonestar]

I'm all for protecting Cutler as well, however, drafting an OT rookie in 2008, that rookie OT may not be experienced enough to protect Cutler in 2008; So for protecting Cutler immediately, Denver needs to find that stud-veteran OT in FA, to protect Cutler.


Indy did not have an issue with manning being protected by a rookie. If they are taken that high they should be able to do so. Other wise mikey screwed the pooch again..

[dogfish]

Clady...no one says a rookie can't start and I'd already say he's better than Pears.




Indy did not have an issue with manning being protected by a rookie. If they are taken that high they should be able to do so. Other wise mikey screwed the pooch again..



add in marcus mcneil, joe thomas, charles spencer-- there have been a fair number of rookie tackles recently that have played quite well. . . it really depends on who you're taking-- a guy like sam baker (he's more likely at 42 than 12, but just for the sake of discussion) is perfectly capable of coming in and playing at a high level right away. . . .


also, i want to re-emphasize-- FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS THREAD, PLEASE ASSUME THAT WE ARE GOING TO PICK AT #12 AND ARE UNABLE TO TRADE BACK. . . . i know that most people want to trade back, and i would be pretty happy with it myself-- trading back in the draft is now officially the second most desirable thing in the world, trailing only sex. . . go to any team's message board, and you will find posters talking about "we need to trade back and get more picks". . . . i understand everyone's desire to do so perfectly well, i just wanted to see how people rank the prospects if we DO have to pick at 12, because it's very possible that it's a spot that no one will particularly want to trade in to. . .

[atwater27]

Dan Connor is too light. 220 pound linebackers are not the answer. Unless we want to get pushed around on defense.

[Scarface]

Dan Connor is too light. 220 pound linebackers are not the answer. Unless we want to get pushed around on defense.

Connor weighed in at 233 at the combine.

[atwater27]

Thanks for the correction. I still think it is too light for linebacker. As good as Ian Gold was at first, I always cringed when I saw that tiny guy in there where the big boys play.

[shank]

Connor weighed in at 233 at the combine.

231 :D

[upindbroncs]

Trade down to the 20's and get:

Desean Jackson...look at our average field position last year. No Javon...need a deep threat receiver. Top DT's will be gone already. Yep we need D but this could be best player available.

or I'd like Kenny Phillips also...if we think ol' man Lynch can cover anyone we're in trouble.

Of course this is with the hope that "I like my head in the sand" Shanny will actually do something in Free Agency (D. Robinson) and if we're smart D. Stallworth.

Marshall, Stallworth, and then Jackson in the slot would be tough!

2nd round get OL or LB

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Gold can't hold Connor's jock though. SEC may have the speed, but Big10 has the big bodies...I've never seen Connor get punked, run over, etc. He's 10 lbs bigger than Gold and is a far better tackler. I dunno about him at 12...but if we traded back to the mid/late teens..hellz yeah. But I still wouldn't cry if he came to Denver at 12.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Trade down to the 20's and get:

Desean Jackson...look at our average field position last year. No Javon...need a deep threat receiver. Top DT's will be gone already. Yep we need D but this could be best player available.

or I'd like Kenny Phillips also...if we think ol' man Lynch can cover anyone we're in trouble.

Of course this is with the hope that "I like my head in the sand" Shanny will actually do something in Free Agency (D. Robinson) and if we're smart D. Stallworth.

Marshall, Stallworth, and then Jackson in the slot would be tough!

2nd round get OL or LB

Stallworth is a Brown.

[upindbroncs]

Stallworth is a Brown.

crap missed that today...who isn't a brown this year! guess this means Shanny will be picking up more Cleveland cast offs!

Stallworth, Winslow, Edwards...hmmm may have to pick up Anderson in Fantasy this year!!!

[upindbroncs]

at our positions of need

At "our positions of need"??? Let's see that would include anything besides Champ, Cutler, Marshall, and a couple of more...Was I watching a different team than you last year? Right now our team is either too old or too young at most positions, and we have NO depth. If we think that we're anything but rebuilding you're kidding yourself.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

That's why I prefer Geno Hayes over Xavier Adibi. Age.

...in the 6th round...cuz Geno hayes is in WAY over his head at this point.

[Scarface]

231 :D

233 according to NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/combine/players

[shank]

233 according to NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/combine/players

those aren't combine numbers. (don't ask me why they never updated) those are from before the combine.

they have ali highsmith at 226 (weighed in at 230) sedrick ellis at 305 (weighed in at 309) kentwaan balmer at 298 (weighed in at 308)... they are close, but not combine numbers :D

not that it matters, i am just really bored haha.

[Npba900]

At "our positions of need"??? Let's see that would include anything besides Champ, Cutler, Marshall, and a couple of more...Was I watching a different team than you last year? Right now our team is either too old or too young at most positions, and we have NO depth. If we think that we're anything but rebuilding you're kidding yourself.

I know things appear bleak....Denver needs to tweak or upgrade positions where they can get the best return. Denver has a studs at QB (Cutler), WR (Marshall), and TE (Scheffler) now Denver needs to add a Stud RB and Stud FB, to complete the circle.

In my opinion, for this years draft, Denver should take the 12 pick overall, and if available select either Stewart or Mendenhall. Then in the 4th round, select one of the behemoth hybrid and athletic-lead blocking smash mouth FB's of the likes of Schmitt (West Virginia), Cox-(Georgia), or Caulcrick (Mich. State). All three of these guys weigh btwn 250 to 260 lbs.

Hell Caulcrick is a beast in short yardage, he scored 21 TD's, all inside the Twenty!!! Imagine, Caulcrick (agile and at 260) and Stewart (power-full and at 235) lining up at the 5 or 1 yard line....no need for trick plays....just run the ball down their throats!!! Cutler will have weapons and options in the Red Zone with the additions of either Stewart or Mendenhall, or with either Schmitt, Cox, or Caulcrick.

Remember, Denver can't remain small across their O-Line, small (in today's NFL) with their RB's and FB's and expect to have success with running the ball and scoring inside the Red Zone! We all saw as fans last year how Denver struggled and performed miserably in the Red Zone. Drafting either RB's Mendenhall or Stewart and either FB's Caulcrick, Cox, or Schmitt, vastly improves our scoring inside the Red Zone in 2008.

One of the best ways to Protect Cutler, is to give him a strong Running Game, especially if the LT spot is an uncertainty in 2008.

Denver already has franchise QB (Cutler) and a franchise WR (Brandon). All Shanahan, needs to do now is to provide talent at the RB and FB positions, and Cutlers not only has weapons, but teams won't rush with reckless abandon to try and nail Cutler. Brandon benefits, b/c now Denver's running game will open up opportunities in the passing game. Teams will have to commit safeties to stop our run, thus leaving Brandon one on one.

Yes, we need help on the D-Line and LB positions, Denver needs to take the best player available with their 2nd pick on D Line or LB positions. I just think in 2008, Slowick and Shanahan just needs to allow the current starters on the front seven to just "ATTACK" the opposition and play aggressively and take no prisoner football, instead of this Read-React schemes. Just let the Defense play 1970's and/or 1980's Scorched Earth "DEFENSE"!!!

[Scarface]

One of the best ways to protect Cutler is to take a LT early in the draft.

[dogfish]

haha, point counter-point. . .


and IMO they're both valid. . .

[Bronco9798]

One of the best ways to protect Cutler is to take a LT early in the draft.

Bingo!! my exact sentiments. Go OT at 12. That's what I'm hoping for.

[MHCBill]

Someone remind me why we drafted Ryan Harris?

I'll be shocked if we go OT at #12.

Harris was drafted to become our LT in 2-3 years... unfortunately that time table accelerated with Lepsis retirement.

Our differing opinions as fans whether or not Harris sucks really doesn't matter because the team drafted him and they must like him. I believe he was drafted to play. So he will.

Whether any of us agree or not that a OT taken at #12 this year is better than Harris right now I think is a moot point because the actual decision makers drafted Harris and will give him a chance to start. They've even discussed moving Kuper there if Hamilton and Nalen are both able to play.

We shall see...

[Scarface]

Bingo!! my exact sentiments. Go OT at 12. That's what I'm hoping for.

I don't ever want to play SD again and watch that pass rush bully our O-Line again. No damn rb is going to stop a pass rush.

[Scarface]

Someone remind me why we drafted Ryan Harris?

I'll be shocked if we go OT at #12.

Harris was drafted to become our LT in 2-3 years... unfortunately that time table accelerated with Lepsis retirement.

Our differing opinions as fans whether or not Harris sucks really doesn't matter because the team drafted him and they must like him. I believe he was drafted to play. So he will.

Whether any of us agree or not that a OT taken at #12 this year is better than Harris right now I think is a moot point because the actual decision makers drafted Harris and will give him a chance to start. They've even discussed moving Kuper there if Hamilton and Nalen are both able to play.

We shall see...

We drafted Harris to play tackle. Maybe LT. Either way that's only one tackle spot. Last I checked Harris isn't superman so that will leave one tackle spot open for improvement. Don't tell me you're confident in Pears. With bookend stud tackles you'll see the offense become as efficient as ever. Give Cutler time to pick a defense apart and it's over.

[dogfish]

Someone remind me why we drafted Ryan Harris?

I'll be shocked if we go OT at #12.

Harris was drafted to become our LT in 2-3 years... unfortunately that time table accelerated with Lepsis retirement.

Our differing opinions as fans whether or not Harris sucks really doesn't matter because the team drafted him and they must like him. I believe he was drafted to play. So he will.

Whether any of us agree or not that a OT taken at #12 this year is better than Harris right now I think is a moot point because the actual decision makers drafted Harris and will give him a chance to start. They've even discussed moving Kuper there if Hamilton and Nalen are both able to play.

We shall see...


even if harris comes out of the gate strong-- which is far from guaranteed-- a guy like clady could push pears, and if he's even close to his projected worth will take the job away in short order. . . besides, having another tackle on the roster with legitimate footwork and athleticism for the left side would be an awfully nice insurance policy in case harris can't handle it-- or in case his back gives him more problems. . . . right now stewart and mendenhall are still my top choices, but they're just barely edging clady out-- IMO it's pretty easy to make a legit argument for him. . .


edit: re-reading your post, i see what you're saying, and you could be right that that's the FO's line of thinking. . . doesn't mean that i agree with it, though. . .

[dogfish]

I don't ever want to play SD again and watch that pass rush bully our O-Line again. No damn rb is going to stop a pass rush.

owen scmitt might. . . . :D

[MHCBill]

I don't ever want to play SD again and watch that pass rush bully our O-Line again. No damn rb is going to stop a pass rush.Come on Scar... you know better than that.

One great equalizer to an opponents pass rush IS the running game. That and a lead.

We need that final piece to the offensive skill position puzzle do go along with the other young studs... running back.

Hopefully it will be a long time until we draft this high again, so let's make use of it and get that stud RB.

Please get Stewart!

[MHCBill]

We drafted Harris to play tackle. Maybe LT. Either way that's only one tackle spot. Last I checked Harris isn't superman so that will leave one tackle spot open for improvement. Don't tell me you're confident in Pears. With bookend stud tackles you'll see the offense become as efficient as ever. Give Cutler time to pick a defense apart and it's over.Who are the stud OT's in the draft that will give you this confidence?

[Bronco9798]

Good up front play on both sides of the ball wins ball games consistently. You have to get better up front first. They may not be glamor positions, but you have to be good up there. Going out and drafting a RB is not the answer right now in my opinion.

[dogfish]

damn it, this is why it's killin' me that we haven't been able to address the DT position with a solid vet-- that would have left us in great shape to grab stewart or mendenhall, and get good value with an OT in the 2nd. . .


oh well. . . .

[Scarface]

Come on Scar... you know better than that.

One great equalizer to an opponents pass rush IS the running game. That and a lead.

We need that final piece to the offensive skill position puzzle do go along with the other young studs... running back.

Hopefully it will be a long time until we draft this high again, so let's make use of it and get that stud RB.

Please get Stewart!

Of course a running game helps. But we've had a running game for a long time. We haven't had a great o-line though. It all starts up front. Upgrading the O-Line will make every facet of the offense better.

[Scarface]

Who are the stud OT's in the draft that will give you this confidence?

Clady, Williams, Albert, and Cherilus.

This is the draft to go get a tackle. It's loaded with good tackles.

[MHCBill]

damn it, this is why it's killin' me that we haven't been able to address the DT position with a solid vet-- that would have left us in great shape to grab stewart or mendenhall, and get good value with an OT in the 2nd. . .


oh well. . . .Robertson for Foxworth and a 5th?

I would do it in a heartbeat!

[Bronco9798]

Of course a running game helps. But we've had a running game for a long time. We haven't had a great o-line though. It all starts up front. Upgrading the O-Line will make every facet of the offense better.

Not a real hard thing to understand is it? Everything in football on both sides of the ball moves from front to back. How you play up front depends on how you play further back. It's a pretty neat concept eh? :D:D:elefant:

[MHCBill]

Good up front play on both sides of the ball wins ball games consistently. You have to get better up front first. They may not be glamor positions, but you have to be good up there. Going out and drafting a RB is not the answer right now in my opinion.I think the problem with the Oline was more pass protection than run blocking. We have a good oline for run blocking between the 20's. I think a more physical back inside the 20's will help because of the "finesse" our Oline utilizes.

Pass blocking... that's another story, but running better and getting leads will help with that too.

[MHCBill]

Of course a running game helps. But we've had a running game for a long time. We haven't had a great o-line though. It all starts up front. Upgrading the O-Line will make every facet of the offense better.I don't disagree with that assessment at all, but let's add talent later in the draft... not at #12.

Get the stud, physical RB there... that's all I'm saying.

[Scarface]

Not a real hard thing to understand is it? Everything in football on both sides of the ball moves from front to back. How you play up front depends on how you play further back. It's a pretty neat concept eh? :D:D:elefant:

All I keep thinking of is Zimmerman and T-Bone. If we can anything close to that Cutler and the offense will be in good shape.

[dogfish]

Robertson for Foxworth and a 5th?

I would do it in a heartbeat!

man, i wish! i think they were trying to tell people they wanted a FIRST for him, though, which is completely freakin' nuts. . . probably just over-pricing him in hopes of getting what they really wanted, but i doubt they'd go all the way down to a 5th, even with foxy. . . i'd be willing to give them fox and some sort of conditional pick next year based on his performance, but i don't know if that would get it done or not. . . IMO it's starting to look like they may want to keep him, but his cap number would seem to be a bit prohibitive-- they'll probably have to work out an extension for that to work. . . i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we aren't done trying to swing a deal for him. . .

[MHCBill]

Zimmerman's and T-bone's don't grow on trees.

T-bone, sure we could find another very good solid NFL tackle, like T-bone.

But, Zimmerman... that could take 20 OT's drafted before you finally hit on one that will be a hall of famer.

[Scarface]

I don't disagree with that assessment at all, but let's add talent later in the draft... not at #12.

Get the stud, physical RB there... that's all I'm saying.

We can get a stud tackle in Rd1 and get a stud physical back later in the draft.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/RB/482566.jpg

[Scarface]

Zimmerman's and T-bone's don't grow on trees.

T-bone, sure we could find another very good solid NFL tackle, like T-bone.

But, Zimmerman... that could take 20 OT's drafted before you finally hit on one that will be a hall of famer.

Exactly. That's why you gotta draft those guys early in the draft! Stud RBs do grow on trees.

[MHCBill]

man, i wish! i think they were trying to tell people they wanted a FIRST for him, though, which is completely freakin' nuts. . . probably just over-pricing him in hopes of getting what they really wanted, but i doubt they'd go all the way down to a 5th, even with foxy. . . i'd be willing to give them fox and some sort of conditional pick next year based on his performance, but i don't know if that would get it done or not. . . IMO it's starting to look like they may want to keep him, but his cap number would seem to be a bit prohibitive-- they'll probably have to work out an extension for that to work. . . i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we aren't done trying to swing a deal for him. . .
Actually it looks like market price for a DT this year (whether a pro-bowler or not) is a 3rd and a 5th.

I think we could swing this deal if we can renegotiate Robertson's contract.

I just saw on NFL Network that it's likely the Jets will be moving him still.

[MHCBill]

Exactly. That's why you gotta draft those guys early in the draft! Stud RBs do grow on trees.I respect your and niner's opinion. I really do. You guys know what you're talking about.

I just don't think any of the OT's available at #12 or later are future hall of famers.

Just my opinion... we'll see.

[Scarface]

I respect your and niner's opinion. I really do. You guys know what you're talking about.

I just don't think any of the OT's available at #12 or later are future hall of famers.

Just my opinion... we'll see.

I'm not predicting HOF potential. I just want someone capable of protecting Cutler.

[dogfish]

Actually it looks like market price for a DT this year (whether a pro-bowler or not) is a 3rd and a 5th.

I think we could swing this deal if we can renegotiate Robertson's contract.

I just saw on NFL Network that it's likely the Jets will be moving him still.

another possibility would be to exchange our 2nd and foxy for their 3rd and robertson-- that's 240 points of value between the picks, which equals a high 3rd. . . and that would leave us with #12 and the 6th or 7th pick in the 3rd-- we'd have a chance at tackles like heath benedict, john greco, maybe anthony collins. . . and possibly philip wheeler. . . .

[MHCBill]

We can get a stud tackle in Rd1 and get a stud physical back later in the draft.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/RB/482566.jpgCertainly an option, but I think Stewart is capable of being a hall of fame running back. Not so much with Forte. He'll be good, but Stewart in my opinion will be famous.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Clady, Williams, Albert, and Cherilus.

This is the draft to go get a tackle. It's loaded with good tackles.

OTAH!

[Scarface]

OTAH!

I guess I'd be ok with Otah. He's not the best fit for our ZBS theme though. The other guys I mentioned are better options.

[dogfish]

OTAH!

he's a big beast, that's for sure. . . do you see him playing on the right or the left?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

he's a big beast, that's for sure. . . do you see him playing on the right or the left?

I think he can definitely play Left, but if Shanny likes Harris there, he'd be an awesome RT.

[shank]

I think he can definitely play Left, but if Shanny likes Harris there, he'd be an awesome RT.

with his athleticism, i can't help but see him 'fostering' the hell out of cutler if he was here, and struggling hard with the zbs.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Dude is plenty athletic. Just cuz he's big doesn't mean he can't move. Again though...if Harris is the answer at LT against the speed rushers I'd love to have Otah on the Right.

[dogfish]

i thought i'd bump this and see where everybody stands now. . . i'm going to go ahead and do one from the top down this time. . .


glenn dorsey
vernon gholston
jake long
sedric ellis
chris long
ryan clady
jonathon stewart
rashard mendenhall
chris williams
darren mcfadden
jeff otah
derrick harvey
dominic rogers-cromartie
brandon albert
devin thomas
keith rivers
kenny phillips

[mclark]

In no particular order:

Clady
C.Williams
B.Albert
Mendenhall
Stewart

I'd throw Cedric Ellis in there also, just in case he falls. Otherwise, these 5 would all be fine for me.

[Drill-N-Fill]

i thought i'd bump this and see where everybody stands now. . . i'm going to go ahead and do one from the top down this time. . .


glenn dorsey
vernon gholston
jake long
sedric ellis
chris long
ryan clady
jonathon stewart
rashard mendenhall
chris williams
darren mcfadden
jeff otah
derrick harvey
dominic rogers-cromartie
brandon albert
devin thomas
keith rivers
kenny phillips

I really believe Golston is going to be a real difference maker ala Demarcus Ware/Merriman. I would luv it if we picked him up. My list would be pretty much the same as yours.

[mclark]

Ghoulston? Great athlete. Great on the pass rush. But why so few tackles this season: 37? Last two seasons: 86. Trevor Laws had 112 this year. Chris Long had 136 tackles in the two years.

Ghoulston this past year: 14 sacks. Only 1.5 tackles for loss beyond the sacks. And only 23 tackles beyond the sacks. (Long had 65 tackles beyond his sacks this season.)

The numbers make me wonder if Ghoulston can play the run.

Ghoulston:
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK
2004 6 0 0 0
2005 2 1 0.0 0.0
2006 13 49 15.0 8.5
2007 13 37 15.5 14.0
Totals 28 87 30.5 22.5

Chris Long:
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK
2004 6 5 2.0 1.0
2005 12 46 10.0 2.0
2006 12 57 12.0 4.0
2007 13 79 19.0 14.0
Totals 43 187 43.0 21.0

Tevor Laws (I know this is comparing apples and oranges, but his numbers are spectacular):
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK
2003 DNP - - -
2004 12 17 2.0 1.0
2005 12 33 3.0 1.5
2006 13 62 9.5 3.5
2007 12 112 8.0 4.0
Totals 49 224 22.5 10.0

[shank]

glenn dorsey
sedric ellis
jake long
chris long
vernon gholston
ryan clady
jonathon stewart
rashard mendenhall
chris williams
darren mcfadden
jeff otah
malcolm kelly
limas sweed
james hardy
derrick harvey
dominic rogers-cromartie
brandon albert
devin thomas
keith rivers
kenny phillips

quick reshuffle of your list dog, back end the same. also threw kelly, sweed, and hardy in there, i couldn't take thomas at 12...

[Drill-N-Fill]

Ghoulston? Great athlete. Great on the pass rush. But why so few tackles this season: 37? Last two seasons: 86. Trevor Laws had 112 this year. Chris Long had 136 tackles in the two years.

Ghoulston this past year: 14 sacks. Only 1.5 tackles for loss beyond the sacks. And only 23 tackles beyond the sacks. (Long had 65 tackles beyond his sacks this season.)

The numbers make me wonder if Ghoulston can play the run.

Ghoulston:
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK
2004 6 0 0 0
2005 2 1 0.0 0.0
2006 13 49 15.0 8.5
2007 13 37 15.5 14.0
Totals 28 87 30.5 22.5

Chris Long:
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK
2004 6 5 2.0 1.0
2005 12 46 10.0 2.0
2006 12 57 12.0 4.0
2007 13 79 19.0 14.0
Totals 43 187 43.0 21.0

Tevor Laws (I know this is comparing apples and oranges, but his numbers are spectacular):
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK
2003 DNP - - -
2004 12 17 2.0 1.0
2005 12 33 3.0 1.5
2006 13 62 9.5 3.5
2007 12 112 8.0 4.0
Totals 49 224 22.5 10.0

Gholston plays the run well. I couldn't tell you the lack in his numbers b/c I watched few games, and the few I watched he was great. Gholston plays with a mean streak, something this defense hasn't had in too long.

I know everyone is in love with Laws. Personally, I just prefer a big beefy defensive tackle. Not saying he wouldn't be productive. His college numbers are hard to disregard.

And my gut says Chris Long will be a bust. No facts no nothing, just my opinion. And I would gladly say I was wrong about him in a few years, if proven otherwise.

If we are truly drafting BPA, I hope Shanny drafts Gholston if available. This defense needs him.

[Drill-N-Fill]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yot9ClPvZDg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FJAOY9iLsno

[Scarface]

I'm sticking with my guys. I firmly believe we'll end up with one of them if we don't trade out of 12.

[fcspikeit]

I am a little late, What happened to Phillips? So many here wanted this guy, now he is never talked about... It's funny how much can change after the Combine and pro days... Not that he lost stock by doing so bad, it's just so many others have gained stock and seem to be pushing him out...

Anyways, here is my list. I am going to make it as if I were sending my picks because I was going to miss the 1st round. That of course means I will have to pick from 1 -12 just in case my top 11 are gone.

1. Glen Dorsey
2. Sedrick Elllis
3. Jake Long
4. Chris Long
5. Ryan Clady
6. Vernon Gholston
7. Rashard Mendenhall
8. Johnathan Stewart
9. Keith Rivers
10. Matt Ryan
11. Darren Mcfadden
12. Trever Laws


That isn't nessisaraly how I see the talent of each player, But combining our team needs VS BPA Value... For instance, after # 8 I would look to trade down... If there were no takers, I would take Ryan or D Mac then trade them to get back in the 1st, along with an extra pick this year or a higher pick next year..

I know some will say we need a #2 WR, I just don't see one who is worth the 12th pick... Besides that, when you figure in position value, WR,CB,S, etc... don't seem to be worth a 1st round pick in trade value, even if you get a good one.

If we can trade a late 1st or early 2nd for a top 10 WR, whats the point in drafting one and taking all the risk at 12? The same can be said for CB & S etc...

What #2 WR is worth the 12th overall pick anyways? Lets say you got a stud, good enough to be a #1. If you wanted to trade him because you don't need/can't afford 2 #1's on you team. What is his pick value worth in trade? 2-4

Therefore, IMO, it is not a good value to take a #2 WR at 12..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I still want him.