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01-06-2010, 12:37 PM
.

WHOA!! You mean defenses haven't typically been loading the box against the
run? You mean defenses actually have been more concerned about the pass? :eek:



Breakdown: Broncos need a running game

By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post

An offense can create big plays a few ways, but the teams that consistently
run the ball force defenses to commit players to the line of scrimmage and
then those offenses can find a little room to work down the field.

The Broncos found themselves continually unable to run the ball consistently
over the last two months of the season. So, often defenses wouldn't have to
add a safety down near the line of scrimmage.

A safety could then remain in coverage so the Broncos didn't often find
themselves with much space beyond 10 yards to do anything in the passing
game.

Couple that with the first edict of Josh McDaniels that his quarterbacks take
care of the ball — certainly a reasonable request given how poorly teams fare
that turn the ball over a lot — and you have the perfect storm for what
happened to the Broncos' passing attack.

Here are Kyle Orton's final numbers in the 8-8 finish:

Yardage ... Cmp ... Pct ... TDs
Negative to 0 ... 14 ... 1.04 ... 0
1 to 10 ... 186 ... 55.4 ... 11
11 to 20 ... 99 ... 29.5 ... 6
21 to 30 ... 22 ... 6.5 ... 0
31 to 40 ... 7 ... 2.1 ... 1
41 to 50 ... 3 ... 0.9 ... 0
51-plus ... 5 ... 1.5 ... 3

It took a "flurry" against the Chiefs Sunday to break the tie, but Orton did
finish with just one more pass play longer than 30 yards (15 total) than he
had for negative yardage or no gain this season. But roughly 56 percent of
Orton's completions went for 10 yards or less.

They scored just four touchdowns on throws of more than 20 yards.

And while most folks will point solely to Orton in all of that, the fact the
Broncos could not pound the ball when they had to meant Orton was largely
dealing with defenses dropping deep, content they could stop the run with
seven defenders in the box and content to let the Broncos toss the short one
time after time because of that.

[Picture here. Caption: "Kyle Orton can't create everything for an offense,
especially a running game."]

Add on that Orton lined up in the shotgun plenty — 48 times alone Sunday —
and the fact the Broncos rarely ran out of the shotgun, defenses had a fairly
good idea what was coming when the Broncos broke the huddle.

Denver ran out of the shotgun just three times against the Chiefs and one of
those was a scramble by Orton to avoid a sack.

For the season the Broncos lined up in the shotgun at least 22 times in 14 of
their 16 games. However, they ran the ball out of that formation at least 10
times in only two of those 14 games — the win over the Raiders in Oakland
when they ran for 215 yards and the win over the Chargers in San Diego when
they ran for 101.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14119907#ixzz0br08a8RR

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CoachChaz
01-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Interesting

Ravage!!!
01-06-2010, 12:47 PM
I don't know who this writer is... and really don't know how much clout he has as far as this goes. He's the first I've heard say this, and don't find it to be fact...... but interesting take. I guess when I see someone that I respect on breaking down tape,says the same thing, this would mean more to me.

topscribe
01-06-2010, 12:49 PM
I don't know who this writer is... and really don't know how much clout he has as far as this goes. He's the first I've heard say this, and don't find it to be fact...... but interesting take. I guess when I see someone that I respect on breaking down tape,says the same thing, this would mean more to me.

Jeff Legwold? You don't know who Jeff Legwold is? :laugh:

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Ravage!!!
01-06-2010, 12:53 PM
Jeff Legwold? You don't know who Jeff Legwold is? :laugh:

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No.. I don't..... should I?

topscribe
01-06-2010, 12:56 PM
No.. I don't..... should I?

Jeff Legwold is extremely highly respected among Denver's sportswriters. He is
the Broncos beat writer that the DP hired from the RMN after the RMN went
down.

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Elevation inc
01-06-2010, 12:56 PM
tells me are OL really does suck and people need to stop making excuse for why guys like kuper and weigman, and polumbus are getting blown up by solo lb's and DL and even f'in Cb's.....and if people say shceme i will go crazy since they had just as much issue when we tried Zbs formation stuff from last year.....

CoachChaz
01-06-2010, 12:57 PM
Legwold is pretty solid. I think the numbers behind the numbers could go either way and an argument can be made for both sides. That's what leaves me up in the air about things.

The bottom line no matter how it's spun is the interior oline fell apart on us and needs to be fixed. I dont think anyone can disagree with that

Elevation inc
01-06-2010, 12:59 PM
Legwold is pretty solid. I think the numbers behind the numbers could go either way and an argument can be made for both sides. That's what leaves me up in the air about things.

The bottom line no matter how it's spun is the interior oline fell apart on us and needs to be fixed. I dont think anyone can disagree with that


dont forget RT, polumbus sucks balls and if harris struggles to recover from a tough injury, we could see MCd take a guy like Anthony davis with our first pick....

missingnumber7
01-06-2010, 01:02 PM
1% of our completions were for losses...seriously? I mean I understand RB screens for a loss every now and then...but really something like that happened 14 times?

CoachChaz
01-06-2010, 01:12 PM
dont forget RT, polumbus sucks balls and if harris struggles to recover from a tough injury, we could see MCd take a guy like Anthony davis with our first pick....

Davis has potential, but I think he is VERY raw. Not someone I want to rely on to start as a rookie

Dirk
01-06-2010, 01:13 PM
Maybe I haven't read enough but what exactly happened to Harris? I thought it was a toe injury.

topscribe
01-06-2010, 01:15 PM
Davis has potential, but I think he is VERY raw. Not someone I want to rely on to start as a rookie

There are certain Champ Baileys and Brian Dawkins who I'm sure would like to
see someone in there who can make a difference now . . .

Not to mention me, FWIW. :nod:

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CoachChaz
01-06-2010, 01:22 PM
Not to mention...Davis grades as a low 1st rounder. About the same area as Iupati, who I think is better and more neede for our line at the moment. if we took Davis late in the first (somehow) over Iupati...I'd be pissed.

Elevation inc
01-06-2010, 01:24 PM
Davis has potential, but I think he is VERY raw. Not someone I want to rely on to start as a rookie

i disagree i feel he is a top 15 pick...but no biggy eitehr way..lol, but i also belive Ciron black could start from day 1 at RT even more so than davis....and he is who im hoping MCd decides to go for...because losing harris was a big reason we started choking on the OL.....

Denver Native (Carol)
01-06-2010, 01:40 PM
As far as I am concerned, Legwold's article is right on.

Traveler
01-06-2010, 01:53 PM
i disagree i feel he is a top 15 pick...but no biggy eitehr way..lol, but i also belive Ciron black could start from day 1 at RT even more so than davis....and he is who im hoping MCd decides to go for...because losing harris was a big reason we started choking on the OL.....

While Harris was a big blow, the big reason the OL fell apart was the Ravens gave everyone the blueprint on how to beat us. Physcally attack the interior of the line and make them try and beat the man in front of them by matching their physicality.

We just didn't have the horses to do so, with the possible exception of Kuper. From that game forward, teams used the same tactics against us a we did little to stop it. Hell, even Oakland did it.

This won't be corrected until we get the required type of coaches to teach the proper techniques and players on board that can match the physicality of teams like the Ravens.

broncofaninfla
01-06-2010, 01:58 PM
I guess what adds to the fustration to me in the running game is that we have been such a great running team for a while. Pretty much a given in Shannys tenor that we would be succesfull in running the ball. Hopefully Mcd and company can get the bugs worked out for next season as we desperatly need all phases of our offense working in unison next season to keep in the AFC West hunt.

Elevation inc
01-06-2010, 01:59 PM
While Harris was a big blow, the big reason the OL fell apart was the Ravens gave everyone the blueprint on how to beat us. Physcally attack the interior of the line and make them try and beat the man in front of them by matching their physicality.

We just didn't have the horses to do so, with the possible exception of Kuper. From that game forward, teams used the same tactics against us a we did little to stop it. Hell, even Oakland did it.

This won't be corrected until we get the required type of coaches to teach the proper techniques and players on board that can match the physicality of teams like the Ravens.


we also tried to avoid that many times by running behind polumbus and that failed becasue he sucks and needs to go....lol i guess we didnt wanna run the other direction behind clady becasue we needed him for those screen passes in the playbook...HAHAHA:D

our center to our RT(if harris isnt ready) needs replaced as well as LG.....yikes it will be a fun off-season...

Elevation inc
01-06-2010, 02:01 PM
I guess what adds to the fustration to me in the running game is that we have been such a great running team for a while. Pretty much a given in Shannys tenor that we would be succesfull in running the ball. Hopefully Mcd and company can get the bugs worked out for next season as we desperatly need all phases of our offense working in unison next season to keep in the AFC West hunt.


well both kuper and weigman and hamilton for that matter played there man much better last year, people forget but we did alot of shotgun power traps and lame runs and bubble screens just like this year.....

they just got old or sucked..period!!! haha

Traveler
01-06-2010, 02:08 PM
Hindsight being 20/20, the biggest miscalculation by JMFMcD was not incorporating the power running scheme he liked from the get go. Just as he did with the switch to the 3-4 defense.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Eveyone will say that he didn't have the ammunition (picks, players) to address both the offense and defense and that would be true.

Guess he thought he could blend to the two, but it just didn't work out. Now that he's said he totally commiting to his preferred scheme, the results will hopefully be better.

silkamilkamonico
01-06-2010, 02:12 PM
In one year the single thing we could count on, which was the running game, has been completely taken away.

Is the Denver Broncos organization at an all time low?

Denver Native (Carol)
01-06-2010, 02:14 PM
I still find the following thread started by NTL to be very telling: Here is NTL's first post:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99769

With Harris starting at RT (eight games):

Record: 7 - 1

Net Rushing: 1,107 yards on 249 attempts, 4.45 avg.

Offensive points: 184 total, 23.0 per game


Without Harris starting at RT (seven games):

Record: 1 - 6

Net Rushing: 645 yards on 169 attempts, 3.8 avg.

Offensive points: 118 total, 16.86 per game



Obviously Harris isn't the whole story, but the difference in rushing is astounding, and undoubtedly that has an effect on the final score and the win/loss column to some degree.

The top row (with Harris starting) includes the Baltimore game which is the game he left with the injury. It also included the KC game where he came back and started the KC game (44-13, 245 yards on 45 attempts).

After the Pittsburgh game (game eight) is when Hamilton was replaced by Hochstein. In that game we only acheived 26 yards on fourteen attempts. Ugh.

I've noted all season that our only successful runs seem to be off the edges, off-tackle and outside. It would seem that without Harris at the RT we even lose that ability, and just simply can't run the ball effectively enough.

The comparison is pretty astounding. There's a whole host of other facets, but this difference is pretty hard to ignore.

Edit, I meant to include this thought in the original post:

What's very telling is the difference in our performance against Oakland,both with and without Harris.

Oakland game one with Harris: 186 yards on 37 attempts, 27 points scored

Oakland game two without: 80 yards on 28 attempts, 19 points scored
__________________

LoyalSoldier
01-06-2010, 02:19 PM
Bottom line, offense sucks so change what ever needs to be changed.

Traveler
01-06-2010, 02:29 PM
Bottom line, offense sucks so change what ever needs to be changed.

:lol: Succint and to the point! I :salute: you

arapaho2
01-06-2010, 03:54 PM
Bottom line, offense sucks so change what ever needs to be changed.


problem is ..it didnt suck last year...this is the issue i got

the oline managed to produce the 12 ranked rushing attack ..despite 6 consecutive rbs to IR..and pulling guys from the cell phone booth and off the street to run for us... and despite being forced to pass protect 612 times...it only gave up 11 sacks


now with josh and his offense..we drop in every stat, from points to sacks, yards to conversions

and its just a matter of Kuper hamilton and weignam suddenly suck?

people need to open thier eyes and see the big picture...kuper, hamilton harris, polumbus and even weigman brought here...was because they were a bit smaller but more athletic and had lateral movement to run the ZBS

josh wants the power blocking scheme...its not these guys suck...its the scheme were forcing them to block

josh is doing no differant them bates did with the defense..trying to change the entire line philosophy..but not waiting until he had the skill set needed...just shoving a round peg in the square hole hopeing no one notices

silkamilkamonico
01-06-2010, 04:18 PM
problem is ..it didnt suck last year...this is the issue i got

the oline managed to produce the 12 ranked rushing attack ..despite 6 consecutive rbs to IR..and pulling guys from the cell phone booth and off the street to run for us... and despite being forced to pass protect 612 times...it only gave up 11 sacks


The offense didn't suck last year. It was marginal at best. 16th out of 32 teams in points per game is not going to get it done, especially when your turning the ball over on your side of the field which in turn leads to points for the other team.

Our offense, despite the yards gained, wasn't very good at all in terms of helping the team succeed. In fact it was merely average.

broncofaninfla
01-06-2010, 04:22 PM
Was it just me or did every opposing team after our bye week seem to have 12-13 players on the field? I know literally they didn't but it seemed a high percentage of our offensive players were tackled almost immediatly and by groups of guys, especially on running plays and short yardage passes. I can't remember a time when Royal didn't have a defender on his back as soon as stretched his arms out to catch the ball. In addition to oppossing defenses being able to outscheme us defensivly it seemed as though they knew what were going to do or at least dictated what we were going to do. We were very inept on offense....

silkamilkamonico
01-06-2010, 04:24 PM
I don't know about the 12-13 players, but I will say, 5 yards to go in that offense felt like a mile.

I remember last year, 8 yards to go felt like nothing.

WARHORSE
01-06-2010, 04:28 PM
Not to mention...Davis grades as a low 1st rounder. About the same area as Iupati, who I think is better and more neede for our line at the moment. if we took Davis late in the first (somehow) over Iupati...I'd be pissed.


Iupati is most definitely what we need at LG.

Trent Williams would be a beast in the rungame as well, plus he could be a backup at LT.

CoachChaz
01-06-2010, 04:54 PM
Iupati is most definitely what we need at LG.

Trent Williams would be a beast in the rungame as well, plus he could be a backup at LT.

Agreed...but I see Williams as a mid first rounder. #11 is too high...a pick in the mid 20's would be too late...unless he fell

topscribe
01-06-2010, 05:01 PM
Agreed...but I see Williams as a mid first rounder. #11 is too high...a pick in the mid 20's would be too late...unless he fell

It might be a slight reach, as you say. (As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not
familiar enough with the college talent to discuss them intelligently by name.)
However, here is my point: Would I reach a little bit with the #1 if it turned my
team into a playoff team? Not saying it would be a sure thing, but shoring up
the position would bring the team closer to that objective, wouldn't it?

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arapaho2
01-06-2010, 05:31 PM
The offense didn't suck last year. It was marginal at best. 16th out of 32 teams in points per game is not going to get it done, especially when your turning the ball over on your side of the field which in turn leads to points for the other team.

Our offense, despite the yards gained, wasn't very good at all in terms of helping the team succeed. In fact it was merely average.


yet despite that..our same offense minus the talent in qb and supposedly an upgrade in rb talent...despite turning the ball over alot less

was worse this year...im not saying our offense was like the chargers last year...im saying we got worse..with basicaly the same talent

arapaho2
01-06-2010, 05:32 PM
Was it just me or did every opposing team after our bye week seem to have 12-13 players on the field? I know literally they didn't but it seemed a high percentage of our offensive players were tackled almost immediatly and by groups of guys, especially on running plays and short yardage passes. I can't remember a time when Royal didn't have a defender on his back as soon as stretched his arms out to catch the ball. In addition to oppossing defenses being able to outscheme us defensivly it seemed as though they knew what were going to do or at least dictated what we were going to do. We were very inept on offense....

in short...mcd offense...despite mirroring the pats offense...was anemic and predictable

silkamilkamonico
01-06-2010, 06:02 PM
yet despite that..our same offense minus the talent in qb and supposedly an upgrade in rb talent...despite turning the ball over alot less

was worse this year...im not saying our offense was like the chargers last year...im saying we got worse..with basicaly the same talent

Well, we weren't nearly as explosive this year as last, but breakdown the positions. personnel wise.

QB worse with Orton

oline was worse. Worse because you're trying to run a drop back scheme with ZBS players. It doesn't work like that. And Harris being injured singled the beginning to the end of this offense this year. They were good with him. Bad without him.

RB supposedly better, but everyone knows they are only a staple of the oline.

WR/TE's - supposedly the same. Gaffney was an upgrade. Royal clearly isn't the WR everyone thought he was.

Cutler is obviously the missing key with the explosiveness. But even so, the explosive offense in 2008 culd only generate a FG more a game then 2009.

A FG a game. That's it. Without looking at stats, I would have thought it would be significantly more.

LoyalSoldier
01-06-2010, 06:41 PM
Well, we weren't nearly as explosive this year as last, but breakdown the positions. personnel wise.

QB worse with Orton

oline was worse. Worse because you're trying to run a drop back scheme with ZBS players. It doesn't work like that. And Harris being injured singled the beginning to the end of this offense this year. They were good with him. Bad without him.

RB supposedly better, but everyone knows they are only a staple of the oline.

WR/TE's - supposedly the same. Gaffney was an upgrade. Royal clearly isn't the WR everyone thought he was.

Cutler is obviously the missing key with the explosiveness. But even so, the explosive offense in 2008 culd only generate a FG more a game then 2009.

A FG a game. That's it. Without looking at stats, I would have thought it would be significantly more.

3 points a game is actually significant when dealing with a stat that has such low numbers. That works out to about 48 more points scored or close to 7 TDs.

Although part of that average was when our offense had a few down games, but when they were on point they were hard to stop.

arapaho2
01-06-2010, 06:47 PM
Well, we weren't nearly as explosive this year as last, but breakdown the positions. personnel wise.

QB worse with Orton

oline was worse. Worse because you're trying to run a drop back scheme with ZBS players. It doesn't work like that. And Harris being injured singled the beginning to the end of this offense this year. They were good with him. Bad without him.

RB supposedly better, but everyone knows they are only a staple of the oline.

WR/TE's - supposedly the same. Gaffney was an upgrade. Royal clearly isn't the WR everyone thought he was.

Cutler is obviously the missing key with the explosiveness. But even so, the explosive offense in 2008 culd only generate a FG more a game then 2009.

A FG a game. That's it. Without looking at stats, I would have thought it would be significantly more.

silk the pass blocking doesnt change in a zbs and a pbs...basic pass blocking is the same whether you rina zbs for the RUN game or not

what changed was the mobility of the qb...the fact we had a multitude of designed rollouts and bootlegs last year to bye time and let plays develop..remember also jay had to fight off a huge pass rush every snap in under talented vandy...he became very good at sloughin, skirting, shaking and ducking a hard pass rush...where orton crumbles to the ground

when it broke down cutler could take off and get that few yards needed to avoid the sack...orton cant dothat as well

shanny hid the undersized interior by buying time...mcd did it by shotgun

but when you run the majority of your offense from shotgun...it doesnt take a genious to see...

three wrs to one side....qb under center...BUBBLE SCREEN!!!!!
qb under center...single back..wrs spilt...RUN!!
qb in shotgun...PASS!!!
split back....RB screen!!!!!

as for royal..he is twice the wr gaffney is...talent isnt the problem...mcd favors NE players...:listen:

every play has a #1 target...2nd read...and 3rd read.....our offense under shanny was dynamic because of cutler ....but also because shanny spread the ball around

our offense under mcd is ...throw the ball to marshall in short passes...occassionaly try someone else


and as for point differance...if you cant figure out the differance between playing offense with a good defense that gives you the ball back...creates loads of 3 n outs..like we did this year

and one giveing up 28 points a game on average every game...and you either have to pass and force the issue or fall way behind

then i cant help you

Dean
01-06-2010, 06:58 PM
tells me are OL really does suck and people need to stop making excuse for why guys like kuper and weigman, and polumbus are getting blown up by solo lb's and DL and even f'in Cb's.....and if people say shceme i will go crazy since they had just as much issue when we tried Zbs formation stuff from last year.....

2008- 1864 yards @ 4.8 yd/carry resulting in 15 TDs and 103 first downs

2009- 1836 yards @ 4.2 yd/carry resulting in 9 TDs and 95 first downs

I guess we see things differently. :noidea:

silkamilkamonico
01-06-2010, 06:58 PM
3 points a game is actually significant when dealing with a stat that has such low numbers. That works out to about 48 more points scored or close to 7 TDs.

Although part of that average was when our offense had a few down games, but when they were on point they were hard to stop.

A fg is pretty significant IMHO, especially when you consider the points that were saved by the offense by not turning it over as much in the red zone or for points. Although that last game sure didn't help.

silkamilkamonico
01-06-2010, 07:12 PM
silk the pass blocking doesnt change in a zbs and a pbs...basic pass blocking is the same whether you rina zbs for the RUN game or not

what changed was the mobility of the qb...the fact we had a multitude of designed rollouts and bootlegs last year to bye time and let plays develop..remember also jay had to fight off a huge pass rush every snap in under talented vandy...he became very good at sloughin, skirting, shaking and ducking a hard pass rush...where orton crumbles to the ground

when it broke down cutler could take off and get that few yards needed to avoid the sack...orton cant dothat as well

shanny hid the undersized interior by buying time...mcd did it by shotgun

but when you run the majority of your offense from shotgun...it doesnt take a genious to see...

three wrs to one side....qb under center...BUBBLE SCREEN!!!!!
qb under center...single back..wrs spilt...RUN!!
qb in shotgun...PASS!!!
split back....RB screen!!!!!

as for royal..he is twice the wr gaffney is...talent isnt the problem...mcd favors NE players...:listen:




The pass blocking does change. There's a huge difference between drop back schemes where forming a pocket is required, and roll out schemes where the oline are manipulating the way the defense is pressuring. Shanahan had a mobile offense. Whether they were legitimately rolling out as a unit out of shotgun, or mainpulating the pass rush so Cutler could move, it's much different than what McDaniels scheme requires.

I agree completely about Orton bailing out of the play the minute he saw an uncovered blitzer.

I don't completely disagree about the playcalling, but I do think it was severly hampered by the terrible oline. Our playcalls got more and more conservative the minute Harris went out. We went from playaction on 3rd and short, to have back dives, to QB sneaks. Everything just broke down and I firmly believe McDaniels felt handcuffed. He certainly wasn't this conservative with Matt Cassell as his QB, and that was during a period where Moss wasn't getting involved at all with the offense.

I wasn't impressed at all with Royal this year. He doesn't read coverage very well, which is a priority in McD's offense, and he isn't very good at all once the rute breaks down. He's young, so we'll see where he goes.





and as for point differance...if you cant figure out the differance between playing offense with a good defense that gives you the ball back...creates loads of 3 n outs..like we did this year

and one giveing up 28 points a game on average every game...and you either have to pass and force the issue or fall way behind

then i cant help you


You're really going to go there without ignoring the FACT that, despite how bad our defense was last year, our offense was a big contributor to points on our defense?

Case in point Miami. We would have beat Miami if Cutler didn't single handily contribute half of their points on his 3 turnovers.

When your turning the ball over on your side of the field, which almost always leads to at least a FG, you're going to have to force the issue.

I also hope you do realize that Cutler never played a different style of offense with a good defense. He plays one way. His way. You don't need to look past the Bears season, and the 4 games he single handily lost for them when his defense was playing very well.

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 07:33 PM
Davis has potential, but I think he is VERY raw. Not someone I want to rely on to start as a rookie

Especially when he has to block the blindside of Simms!

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 07:36 PM
I guess what adds to the fustration to me in the running game is that we have been such a great running team for a while. Pretty much a given in Shannys tenor that we would be succesfull in running the ball. Hopefully Mcd and company can get the bugs worked out for next season as we desperatly need all phases of our offense working in unison next season to keep in the AFC West hunt.

Big difference when you're about the only ZBS team in the league.

Nowadays, it's getting closer to 50%

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 07:39 PM
Hindsight being 20/20, the biggest miscalculation by JMFMcD was not incorporating the power running scheme he liked from the get go. Just as he did with the switch to the 3-4 defense.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Eveyone will say that he didn't have the ammunition (picks, players) to address both the offense and defense and that would be true.

Guess he thought he could blend to the two, but it just didn't work out. Now that he's said he totally commiting to his preferred scheme, the results will hopefully be better.

When did he say that?

His latest presser, all I read was where he said he'd look at all schemes, and make changes where necessary.

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 07:48 PM
It might be a slight reach, as you say. (As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not
familiar enough with the college talent to discuss them intelligently by name.)
However, here is my point: Would I reach a little bit with the #1 if it turned my
team into a playoff team? Not saying it would be a sure thing, but shoring up
the position would bring the team closer to that objective, wouldn't it?

-----

So question.....


....since when did the Oline become a higher priority than the Dline?

Funny how some sports writers' words can totally change fans' opinions. :D

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 07:49 PM
yet despite that..our same offense minus the talent in qb and supposedly an upgrade in rb talent...despite turning the ball over alot less

was worse this year...im not saying our offense was like the chargers last year...im saying we got worse..with basicaly the same talent

Crap!

You mean McD didn't ask for shanny's playbook when they passed each other in the hallway?

Fire McD!!!!

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 07:53 PM
in short...mcd offense...despite mirroring the pats offense...was anemic and predictable

CRAP!

You mean Denver's offense can't equal NE's.......after a whole SEASON?

Fire McD!!!

dogfish
01-06-2010, 07:55 PM
CRAP!

You mean Denver's offense can't equal NE's.......after a whole SEASON?

Fire McD!!!

not having a first ballot Hall of famer at quarterback probably didn't help us. . . :lol:

rcsodak
01-06-2010, 08:03 PM
when it broke down cutler could take off and get that few yards needed to avoid the sack...orton cant do that as well

shanny hid the undersized interior by buying time...mcd did it by shotgun
Orton had a severe high ankle sprain.

Jake was RIDICULED for what you say you liked about cutler.


as for royal..he is twice the wr gaffney is...talent isnt the problem...mcd favors NE players...:listen:
What BS.
So says Mcd.
So says ex-Shanny guys *bailey comes to mind*


every play has a #1 target...2nd read...and 3rd read.....our offense under shanny was dynamic because of cutler ....but also because shanny spread the ball around

our offense under mcd is ...throw the ball to marshall in short passes...occassionaly try someone else

and as for point differance...if you cant figure out the differance between playing offense with a good defense that gives you the ball back...creates loads of 3 n outs..like we did this year

and one giveing up 28 points a game on average every game...and you either have to pass and force the issue or fall way behind

then i cant help you

And if the qb isn't putting the team behind because of poor decision-making and/or piss-poor attitude, maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to "force the issue".

Ziggy
01-06-2010, 08:09 PM
Was it just me or did every opposing team after our bye week seem to have 12-13 players on the field? I know literally they didn't but it seemed a high percentage of our offensive players were tackled almost immediatly and by groups of guys, especially on running plays and short yardage passes. I can't remember a time when Royal didn't have a defender on his back as soon as stretched his arms out to catch the ball. In addition to oppossing defenses being able to outscheme us defensivly it seemed as though they knew what were going to do or at least dictated what we were going to do. We were very inept on offense....

No, it wasn't just you. When you can't run the ball, it closes up the playbook very quickly. The Broncos problem was, they couldn't run the ball and they couldn't protect the QB long enough to do any real damage in the passing game either. People will complain about the playcalling, but I'm guessing that a large portion on MCD's playbook was unusable.

Dzone
01-06-2010, 08:22 PM
Moreno ran into Polumbus's back too many times to count. I dont think they keep records on how many times a guy gets pushed straight backwards in run blocking.

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01-07-2010, 05:12 AM
So question.....


....since when did the Oline become a higher priority than the Dline?

Funny how some sports writers' words can totally change fans' opinions. :D

That's true, but I always placed the O-line at a higher priority. :)

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Dean
01-07-2010, 07:49 AM
Question- Am I the only one who remembers how often the tackle was credited to a safety, how at the snap of the ball the strong safety was within 5-7 yards of the LOS, and that an opposing D-back during the middle of the season commented that the Broncos didn't attempt to throw deep so they set on the routes? I hope that someone who taped the games will check and see if my mind is starting to slip. I didn't see those deep safeties.:confused:

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01-07-2010, 12:21 PM
Question- Am I the only one who remembers how often the tackle was credited to a safety, how at the snap of the ball the strong safety was within 5-7 yards of the LOS, and that an opposing D-back during the middle of the season commented that the Broncos didn't attempt to throw deep so they set on the routes? I hope that someone who taped the games will check and see if my mind is starting to slip. I didn't see those deep safeties.:confused:

It's not always easy to notice those things on TV, of course.

But I remember after at least a couple games when either McDaniels or Orton
mentioned the safeties playing deep, and after one of them they both did. I
also noticed that, with the exception of the Washington game, when Kyle did
send it downfield, there were defenders right there with the receivers.

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arapaho2
01-07-2010, 12:50 PM
not having a first ballot Hall of famer at quarterback probably didn't help us. . . :lol:


haveing a average qb hurt worse

arapaho2
01-07-2010, 01:18 PM
Orton had a severe high ankle sprain.

Jake was RIDICULED for what you say you liked about cutler.


What BS.
So says Mcd.
So says ex-Shanny guys *bailey comes to mind*



And if the qb isn't putting the team behind because of poor decision-making and/or piss-poor attitude, maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to "force the issue".

jake wasnt ridiculed for taking off and running...jake was ridiculed for left handed passes and a inability to pass FROM THE POCKET

like the 31 points orton gave up this year from just ints?

or maybe it was because cutlers defense was ranked 30th in scoreing defense...ortons 7th..big diff in keeping teams down i 'd say

arapaho2
01-07-2010, 01:21 PM
Question- Am I the only one who remembers how often the tackle was credited to a safety, how at the snap of the ball the strong safety was within 5-7 yards of the LOS, and that an opposing D-back during the middle of the season commented that the Broncos didn't attempt to throw deep so they set on the routes? I hope that someone who taped the games will check and see if my mind is starting to slip. I didn't see those deep safeties.:confused:


it was after our first loss..the ravens defense noted we never run deep routes or at least pass deep so all they had to do was sit on the routes..they said our offense was predictable because of it

josh never took the hint until the washignton game, and early you could see on marhalls tds the cbs bit on the ..double move cause they expacted a short pass..but he rarely challenged that again

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01-07-2010, 01:31 PM
jake wasnt ridiculed for taking off and running...jake was ridiculed for left handed passes and a inability to pass FROM THE POCKET

like the 31 points orton gave up this year from just ints?

or maybe it was because cutlers defense was ranked 30th in scoreing defense...ortons 7th..big diff in keeping teams down i 'd say

Left-handed passes? How many left-handed passes did Jake throw?

I remember only one . . .

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LoyalSoldier
01-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Left-handed passes? How many left-handed passes did Jake throw?

I remember only one . . .

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Then again, it only took one and he was criticized his whole career here.

arapaho2
01-07-2010, 03:35 PM
Left-handed passes? How many left-handed passes did Jake throw?

I remember only one . . .

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actually he threw three i believe..one for a completion kinda..underhand flip..one for a td the other way..and one for incompletion

but didnt orton throw a left handed pick in preseason? yea he did

and back to the point...jake wasnt critisized for the same things i praised cutler for..the manuverbility, the elusivness, the ability to pass on the move...those were both high points of both thier skill sets

the problem with plummer was he fell apart as a pocket passer...and threw incredibly lame duck long balls...i recall watching lelie stopping mid route, drop down tie his laces before the ball got there

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01-07-2010, 03:47 PM
actually he threw three i believe..one for a completion kinda..underhand flip..one for a td the other way..and one for incompletion

but didnt orton throw a left handed pick in preseason? yea he did

and back to the point...jake wasnt critisized for the same things i praised cutler for..the manuverbility, the elusivness, the ability to pass on the move...those were both high points of both thier skill sets

the problem with plummer was he fell apart as a pocket passer...and threw incredibly lame duck long balls...i recall watching lelie stopping mid route, drop down tie his laces before the ball got there

Jake's strength was outside the pocket, that's true. But I remember doing an
analysis that showed he wasn't as bad in the pocket as some had claimed.
But he was not a great deep passer, for sure.

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arapaho2
01-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Jake's strength was outside the pocket, that's true. But I remember doing an
analysis that showed he wasn't as bad in the pocket as some had claimed.
But he was not a great deep passer, for sure.

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any way thats was his downfall...shanny seen a qb that could do it all even better then plummer.....he even throws picks better this year

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01-07-2010, 09:07 PM
any way thats was his downfall...shanny seen a qb that could do it all even better then plummer.....he even throws picks better this year

lol

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