Brandon Marshall starts saying all the right things, again

[broncofaninfla]

Brandon Marshall starts saying all the right things, again (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/brandon-marshall-starts-saying-all-the-right-things-again/)

Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2010 8:17 AM ET
Broncos (for now) receiver Brandon Marshall (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3653) has cleaned out his locker in Denver (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/04/marshall-scheffler-say-goodbye-perhaps-for-good/), but he's still talking like a guy who wants to put his stuff back in there.

Appearing Monday on 104.3 the Fan in Denver (http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1181090), Marshall heaped praise on coach Josh McDaniels and owner Pat Bowlen.

"I'm nothing but 100 percent commitment to the Denver Broncos, to my teammates," Marshall said. "I have nothing but great things to say about Coach McDaniels, this organization. . . . Mr. B is probably one of the best owners in all of sports. Coach McDaniels . . . if it wasn't for him, the growth in me this year wouldn't be there."

So does Marshall want to return to the Broncos in 2010?

"I love my teammates, and I don't think the decision is up to me," he said. Pressed as to whether he'd want to return if it were up to him, he danced around the subject and he said he loves the team but he never provided the simple one-word answer that would have left no doubt.

And so it appears that Marshall, who admits that he was 20 minutes late for treatment on Friday and that he thereafter was told he'd be deactivated for the final game of the season, is merely trying to say all the right things in the hopes that someone else will give him the contract that the Broncos apparently aren't willing to put on the table.

Though one of the hosts presumed that Mike Shanahan will make a play for Marshall if/when Shanahan becomes head coach of the Redskins, keep in mind that Shanahan supposedly was plotting to cut Marshall (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/13/mort-shanahan-planned-to-cut-brandon-marshall/) last year. (Chris Mortensen of ESPN recently tweaked that stance from cut to "trade".) As a result, the most obvious candidate to pursue Marshall is the Bears, where the front office and the coaching staff must do all they can this offseason to set quarterback Jay Cutler (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3608) up for success.

But the Bears already have traded their 2010 first-round pick to Denver, in order to get Cutler. As a result, G.M. Jerry Angelo would have to come up with some other compensation package if they now want Marshall. And we think that the Broncos will be more interested in sending Marshall to another city, in order to prevent Cutler and Marshall from finding success together and, in turn, making the Broncos look foolish for letting them both go.

In the end, however, the Bears might be the only team interested. For now, Marshall seems ready to say and do anything he can to get other teams to the table.

[claymore]

Im more concerned that McDaniels will say something stupid than Marshall.

[CoachChaz]

Im more concerned that McDaniels will say something stupid than Marshall.

Comments like this often make me feel bad for calling Marshall the immature one.

[claymore]

Comments like this often make me feel bad for calling Marshall the immature one.

Cause you agree that McDaniels cant handle keeping his trap shut?

[CoachChaz]

Cause you agree that McDaniels cant handle keeping his trap shut?

No, because I cant figure out if it's more childish for a grown man to throw a fit on a practice field or for other grown men to do nothing but sit around and look for excuses to thoroughly bash a football coach simply because they fear change.

[broncophan]

Brandon Marshall starts saying all the right things, again (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/brandon-marshall-starts-saying-all-the-right-things-again/)

Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2010 8:17 AM ET
Broncos (for now) receiver Brandon Marshall (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3653) has cleaned out his locker in Denver (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/04/marshall-scheffler-say-goodbye-perhaps-for-good/), but he's still talking like a guy who wants to put his stuff back in there.

Appearing Monday on 104.3 the Fan in Denver (http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1181090), Marshall heaped praise on coach Josh McDaniels and owner Pat Bowlen.

"I'm nothing but 100 percent commitment to the Denver Broncos, to my teammates," Marshall said. "I have nothing but great things to say about Coach McDaniels, this organization. . . . Mr. B is probably one of the best owners in all of sports. Coach McDaniels . . . if it wasn't for him, the growth in me this year wouldn't be there."

So does Marshall want to return to the Broncos in 2010?

"I love my teammates, and I don't think the decision is up to me," he said. Pressed as to whether he'd want to return if it were up to him, he danced around the subject and he said he loves the team but he never provided the simple one-word answer that would have left no doubt.

And so it appears that Marshall, who admits that he was 20 minutes late for treatment on Friday and that he thereafter was told he'd be deactivated for the final game of the season, is merely trying to say all the right things in the hopes that someone else will give him the contract that the Broncos apparently aren't willing to put on the table.

Though one of the hosts presumed that Mike Shanahan will make a play for Marshall if/when Shanahan becomes head coach of the Redskins, keep in mind that Shanahan supposedly was plotting to cut Marshall (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/13/mort-shanahan-planned-to-cut-brandon-marshall/) last year. (Chris Mortensen of ESPN recently tweaked that stance from cut to "trade".) As a result, the most obvious candidate to pursue Marshall is the Bears, where the front office and the coaching staff must do all they can this offseason to set quarterback Jay Cutler (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3608) up for success.

But the Bears already have traded their 2010 first-round pick to Denver, in order to get Cutler. As a result, G.M. Jerry Angelo would have to come up with some other compensation package if they now want Marshall. And we think that the Broncos will be more interested in sending Marshall to another city, in order to prevent Cutler and Marshall from finding success together and, in turn, making the Broncos look foolish for letting them both go.

In the end, however, the Bears might be the only team interested. For now, Marshall seems ready to say and do anything he can to get other teams to the table.

I don't understand how he is "saying all the right things".....when he can't even answer a yes or no question.......people would do just as well to interview his agent, rather than Marshall......they would get the same answers.

[Tned-Mobile]

No, because I cant figure out if it's more childish for a grown man to throw a fit on a practice field or for other grown men to do nothing but sit around and look for excuses to thoroughly bash a football coach simply because they fear change.

Obviously there are extremes on both sides, those that defend McDaniels no matter what he does, and those that criticize him regardless of what he does.

That said, I assume you would agree that his youth and rookie status has shown through at times. Correct?

[Broncolingus]

Brandon Marshall starts saying all the right things, again


http://www.sonic.net/~atomicow/glowingcow.com/yawn.jpg


...and c-ya.

[dogfish]

But the Bears already have traded their 2010 first-round pick to Denver, in order to get Cutler. As a result, G.M. Jerry Angelo would have to come up with some other compensation package if they now want Marshall. And we think that the Broncos will be more interested in sending Marshall to another city, in order to prevent Cutler and Marshall from finding success together and, in turn, making the Broncos look foolish for letting them both go.

In the end, however, the Bears might be the only team interested. For now, Marshall seems ready to say and do anything he can to get other teams to the table.

the bears won't be the only team that's interested, and we'd be stupid to not deal with them if they make the best offer. . .

their lack of picks this year is obviously an issue, but if they honestly want to burn through more picks to add veteran talent (which is more likely when both the coach and the GM are on hot enough seats that they might not be there to spend next year's picks if they don't get some results), i wouldn't object to taking a 2011 1st along with a 2nd day pick in this year's draft. . .

[Shazam!]

The NYG are desperate for a #1 WR. The loss of Plexiglass is glaring since last season.

There are plenty of teams that would make a play for Marshall.

[Poet]

Baltimore.

[Lonestar]

the bears won't be the only team that's interested, and we'd be stupid to not deal with them if they make the best offer. . .

their lack of picks this year is obviously an issue, but if they honestly want to burn through more picks to add veteran talent (which is more likely when both the coach and the GM are on hot enough seats that they might not be there to spend next year's picks if they don't get some results), i wouldn't object to taking a 2011 1st along with a 2nd day pick in this year's draft. . .

Nope not enough.. it would have to be their 2nd thru 4th this year and their 1st and 4th next year..

[CrazyHorse]

The NYG are desperate for a #1 WR. The loss of Plexiglass is glaring since last season.

There are plenty of teams that would make a play for Marshall.

I wouldn't say that. The Giants have a decent group of young wide receivers.

[dogfish]

Nope not enough.. it would have to be their 2nd thru 4th this year and their 1st and 4th next year..

they don't have a second this year :listen:, but i'd wish you good luck with that even if they did. . .

[Elevation inc]

Baltimore
Miami
San Fran
St louis
Tampa
Carolina


those are the top canidates for marshall, the bears dont have close to anything we would even want.....

[claymore]

No, because I cant figure out if it's more childish for a grown man to throw a fit on a practice field or for other grown men to do nothing but sit around and look for excuses to thoroughly bash a football coach simply because they fear change.

I can be childish or ignorant. Id rather be childish. Defending the Shit JMCD has done is up to others. I just call it like I see it.

People can ignore the pattern all they want. I cant.

[CoachChaz]

I can be childish or ignorant. Id rather be childish. Defending the Shit JMCD has done is up to others. I just call it like I see it.

People can ignore the pattern all they want. I cant.

...and I have no problem with questioning a coach and his decisions. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm calling immature is when people that question him just completely refuse to listen to explanations for his decisions and prefer to just sit back and call him names and slander him to the extreme. No one takes anyone seriously when all they can do is bash someone uncontrollably

[broncofaninfla]

...and I have no problem with questioning a coach and his decisions. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm calling immature is when people that question him just completely refuse to listen to explanations for his decisions and prefer to just sit back and call him names and slander him to the extreme. No one takes anyone seriously when all they can do is bash someone uncontrollably

I agree to a point but don't you think Mcd has brought a lot of this on himself?

[Dirk]

I think McD slept with someone close to Clay....that's gotta be what it is... :D

[CoachChaz]

I agree to a point but don't you think Mcd has brought a lot of this on himself?

I have admitted as much. He's a rookie head coach and he has made some rookie mistakes. The difference is in what me or you or anyone else considers a mistake.

Example: I think getting rid of Cutler was a good thing...others dont.

I'll never argue that his play-calling got stale or that it might have made sense to try other options, but no one is going to convince me that McDaniels isnt competetive and doesnt want to win. That being said, I believe he will do everything in his power to make the team competitive. If we have another mediocre season and he doesnt learn from the mistakes I feel he made, then I'll be just as skeptical (minus the name-calling) as anyone else

[claymore]

...and I have no problem with questioning a coach and his decisions. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm calling immature is when people that question him just completely refuse to listen to explanations for his decisions and prefer to just sit back and call him names and slander him to the extreme. No one takes anyone seriously when all they can do is bash someone uncontrollablyI agree the name calling is childish. Thats why I dont do it. Most of the explanations Ive heard dont answer my questions. Media leaks, bad personell decisions, emotional outbursts, questionable playcalling... JMCD has done all of that repeatedly.

Throw out the whole Cutler thing, and all of that stuff is still there.


I think McD slept with someone close to Clay....that's gotta be what it is... :D

Yeah, he's ****'ing the Broncos. Right now as we speak. Its painfull to watch.

[CoachChaz]

I agree the name calling is childish. Thats why I dont do it. Most of the explanations Ive heard dont answer my questions. Media leaks, bad personell decisions, emotional outbursts, questionable playcalling... JMCD has done all of that repeatedly.

Throw out the whole Cutler thing, and all of that stuff is still there.


Media leaks. I think there is a benefit to players being held accountable by the team and the public. If the fans know they are acting like children, maybe the punishment sets in a bit deeper and wakes them up a bit. I have no problem with that aspect.

Personnel decisions. Every coach makes them. Some good...some bad. It comes with the territory.

Questionable play-calling. Again, we'll criticize the plays of EVERY coach when they dont work. Comes with the territory

Emotional outburts. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this.





Either way...I dont think it's as bad as some make it out to be. But that's just my own opinion. No matter what he does, I'll still be a fan and if he chokes...a change will occur. I'm at least willing to give hime the benefit of the doubt over the next 2 years

[claymore]

Media leaks. I think there is a benefit to players being held accountable by the team and the public. If the fans know they are acting like children, maybe the punishment sets in a bit deeper and wakes them up a bit. I have no problem with that aspect.

Personnel decisions. Every coach makes them. Some good...some bad. It comes with the territory.

Questionable play-calling. Again, we'll criticize the plays of EVERY coach when they dont work. Comes with the territory

Emotional outburts. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this.





Either way...I dont think it's as bad as some make it out to be. But that's just my own opinion. No matter what he does, I'll still be a fan and if he chokes...a change will occur. I'm at least willing to give hime the benefit of the doubt over the next 2 years

He is emotional. Maybe to emotional to be in charge. I dont even think he was a very good Coordinator. NE hasnt skipped a beat since he left.

Im not going to list all the weird shit that he has done here. I would have hoed that an overly emotional young coach could at least relate better to the players.

[CoachChaz]

He is emotional. Maybe to emotional to be in charge. I dont even think he was a very good Coordinator. NE hasnt skipped a beat since he left.

Im not going to list all the weird shit that he has done here. I would have hoed that an overly emotional young coach could at least relate better to the players.

This is assuming he doesnt relate to the players based on how he handled 2 of them. 2 out of more than 50? I'm not prepared to say he does handle players well based on that average...and I'm definitlely not prepared to say he is overly emotional. Cowher was considered "overly emotional", yet people seem to cream their pants when it comes to discussing him coaching the team.

[claymore]

This is assuming he doesnt relate to the players based on how he handled 2 of them. 2 out of more than 50? I'm not prepared to say he does handle players well based on that average...and I'm definitlely not prepared to say he is overly emotional. Cowher was considered "overly emotional", yet people seem to cream their pants when it comes to discussing him coaching the team.

Its at least 4 players. Unless Hillis is happy with his role. As for Cowher, he is emotional, but it doesnt effect his personal or personell decisions.

[CoachChaz]

Its at least 4 players. Unless Hillis is happy with his role. As for Cowher, he is emotional, but it doesnt effect his personal or personell decisions.

I guess I missed where McD's "emotions" got in the way of how he handled players. he benched Marshall and Sheffler for acting like children. he didnt play Hillis much for reasons we dont know about.

Where does "emotion" come into play?

[claymore]

I guess I missed where McD's "emotions" got in the way of how he handled players. he benched Marshall and Sheffler for acting like children. he didnt play Hillis much for reasons we dont know about.

Where does "emotion" come into play?

In the deactivation of both of those players (Marshall, Sheffler). It was emotional. The logical thing would be to bite your tongue for a week, and maximze their trade/tender value.

[Traveler]

In the deactivation of both of those players (Marshall, Sheffler). It was emotional. The logical thing would be to bite your tongue for a week, and maximze their trade/tender value.

Please tell this was sarcasm. You're better than that if it wasn't.

[CoachChaz]

In the deactivation of both of those players (Marshall, Sheffler). It was emotional. The logical thing would be to bite your tongue for a week, and maximze their trade/tender value.

This is all assuming you PLAN on trading them. I havent seen nor heard ANYTHING that shows me this is the plan. And I havent seen anything to show where deactivating them is an "emotional" response. It was recourse for their actions. Maybe he got pissed and decided to do this because he was pissed...but none of us can say that. We can only assume and I personally think it's a stretch to assume that.

Sheffler couldnt wait for the season to end...fine...your season is over. Marshall milks a ghost injury...fine...have a seat and rest it. I see it as more along the lines of holding them accountable for their own choices of actions and words. not an emotional overreaction by a coach

[Ravage!!!]

Why is it ok to bash the player and his CONTINUED showing of immaturity, yet if the coach continues to show a disturbing pattern, we can't point it out? Has McD really learned from his earlier season exhibitions of immaturity? The way he handled last offseason was immature, despite whether or not you agree with the trade. He didn't handle it like a professional, and he wasn't more mature than the young players he is dealing with. JUST like now. Going to the media is immature. IMMATURITY from the coach and GM is an alarming pattern that we see, yet we keep using this "he's new and is going to make mistakes" excuse. I'm pretty sure he's been in the NFL, and an ADULT, longer than Marshall has.

In the meantime, this team will be trading away a pro-bowl QB and a two-time pro bowl WR in consecutive years.

I know you guys think I'm a McD hater. But RIGHT when I'm looking to move on and/or move forward.... we get the same stuff from him. So right from the beginning of the NEXT offseason (the last game of our season) we are RIGHT back to where we were last year, and dealing with yet MORE drama again......yet a different pro-bowl player on the market and ready to go.

Yet we are supposed to have the "give him a chance, he's young and he's new, and he's going to make mistakes, and he's going to goof, and everything is going to be alright, cause he's taking this team in the right direction" mantra.

In the meantime, this team is losing more and more talent... and we are, for some reason, supposed to believe this guy knows what he's doing? Why? Why must we simply believe this? What has he done in the NFL to prove he knows what he's doing (as an HC/Gm)??

[Ravage!!!]

Ghost injury.. weird. I guess its a ghost injury because the MRI didn't show anything????

Guess what. The MRI didn't show anything on Rod SMith's hip. The MRI didn't show anything on Al Wilson's neck.. and most importantly, the MRI didn't show a damned thing on Marshall's hip last year when this med-staff told him it was "ok" to play on.

SO please explain to me, since we don't like to make assumptions that the coach made an emotional decision, that we KNOW this was some kind of "ghost" injury that he was milking? I'm guessing since its the player that we can assume he's emotional, yet our overly excited coach doesn't get emotional or make decisions on his ego??? really?

[Elevation inc]

meh i really belive everyone has there panties in a bunch over nothing....could be marshall goes nowhere....dude cant even get a deal done with anotehr team untill after march 1st and we can match it....so all this is just media spin.....and consipracy theory about how thinsg were really interpreted.....

[Ravage!!!]

meh i really belive everyone has there panties in a bunch over nothing....could be marshall goes nowhere....dude cant even get a deal done with anotehr team untill after march 1st and we can match it....so all this is just media spin.....and consipracy theory about how thinsg were really interpreted.....

Yeah.. I know he can't physically go anywhere, and we all know he can't make the deal to actually go anywhere... but, imo, NO WAY our coach signs a deal with him after this. NO WAY. Marshall didn't bow and thats not going to work for McD.

[arapaho2]

this is all i know....whos right or wrong sometimes varies,sometimes lies in the middle..speculation goes both ways..so does opinions

but fact is undeniable by all

and the fact is no matter how some may condemm marshall...he played his ass off for the broncos and many games was the reason we won..without his play we are lucky to be 8-8...his attiture or what some say is a problem...in no way shape or form dictated the outcome of the season

on the same hand..MCD took an offense...swapped a probowl qb with loads of raw talent for a basic run of the mill average joe qb...he changed our entire offense, not only what didnt work so well like the no name backs...but changed what did work like the ZBS....he took the #2 total offense...#16 in scoreing...#11 in rushing...3rd in passing...and transformed it into a disaster of predictability

we dropped to 15th in total Off...20th in scoreing....15th in passing and 18th in rush offense...we went from 11 total sacks to 34

alot of its the extreme downgrade in qb talent...but the majority is MCD and his coaching.

he scoffed at shannys RZ production and swore to improve it...utter failure

in the end you can blame marshall all you want...but the facts show he's not to blame for the 8-8 season...and thats all i care about..winning

it doesnt matter who said what...who cried who faked it...who didnt

what matters is we went into the 09 season with a buttload of young offensive talent, a young squad that would have been any offensive minded coaches dream...and ended the season with one of the worst bronco offenses i have seen ...i dont see how we can lay that on cutler, marshall or scheffler

[Elevation inc]

Ghost injury.. weird. I guess its a ghost injury because the MRI didn't show anything????

Guess what. The MRI didn't show anything on Rod SMith's hip. The MRI didn't show anything on Al Wilson's neck.. and most importantly, the MRI didn't show a damned thing on Marshall's hip last year when this med-staff told him it was "ok" to play on.

SO please explain to me, since we don't like to make assumptions that the coach made an emotional decision, that we KNOW this was some kind of "ghost" injury that he was milking? I'm guessing since its the player that we can assume he's emotional, yet our overly excited coach doesn't get emotional or make decisions on his ego??? really?

FYI marshall does have a history of being a baby with regards to his hammy....even shanny had to kick his ass back into camp a couple years back...MRI or not if you really love your team, and are dedicated you make a effort however hard to play in the biggest game of the year....

even marshall said it wasn torn and just sore.....so you cant play in the biggest game of the year becasue of a sore hammy?? fine go get treatment, but then your late....20 minutes is 20 minutes your late at your job or an appt there are consequences and he was already on a short leash after his baby antics from camp....

it may not have been handled the best, or it came out crazy...but people are spinning crap into oblivion about interpretation of what was said....

[Elevation inc]

Yeah.. I know he can't physically go anywhere, and we all know he can't make the deal to actually go anywhere... but, imo, NO WAY our coach signs a deal with him after this. NO WAY. Marshall didn't bow and thats not going to work for McD.


dude with no CBA we can simply tender him at 3 million and he is forced to play with us period!!!! they both have backtracked a bit...and it sounds like the media is talking the trade angle more than the orginization

i mean how is the DP gonna report broncos actively shopping marshall when he cant even bee shopped till march...its all just to media drama fileld for me....

i usually dont take side and in this case i think marshall was a clown and MCd errored as well....

but i like this coach and am willing to give him a extra year, becasue i was alot more pissed with what shanny did his last 3 years here than what MCd has done in only 1 year and that includes the cutler saga and i liked cutler alot....

[Ravage!!!]

FYI marshall does have a history of being a baby with regards to his hammy....even shanny had to kick his ass back into camp a couple years back...MRI or not if you really love your team, and are dedicated you make a effort however hard to play in the biggest game of the year....

even marshall said it wasn torn and just sore.....so you cant play in the biggest game of the year becasue of a sore hammy?? fine go get treatment, but then your late....20 minutes is 20 minutes your late at your job or an appt there are consequences and he was already on a short leash after his baby antics from camp....

it may not have been handled the best, or it came out crazy...but people are spinning crap into oblivion about interpretation of what was said....

Marshall didn't sit himself for the game days ahead of time, the coach did.

Marshall didn't go to the media and call McD him out and question and question his physical toughness, the coach did.

Every football player you here talk about this, has said that the coach can NOT go to the media and question a player's toughness publically like that. You not onlyl lose the player, but you lose others in the locker room as well. EVEN mark Schlereth (who has been one of Marshall's biggest critics) came down on McD for this. Many have.

The sitting of a player DAYS before the game, when he might have been able to play, was wrong. But going to the media and calling him out, THAT is what bothers me more than anything else. THAT is the ego and immaturity that I HATE to see from our coach/GM. Thats much more disturbing than sitting some player.

[CoachChaz]

ghost - a mere shadow or semblance; a trace...a remote possibility

[Ravage!!!]

dude with no CBA we can simply tender him at 3 million and he is forced to play with us period!!!! they both have backtracked a bit...and it sounds like the media is talking the trade angle more than the orginization

i mean how is the DP gonna report broncos actively shopping marshall when he cant even bee shopped till march...its all just to media drama fileld for me....

i usually dont take side and in this case i think marshall was a clown and MCd errored as well....

but i like this coach and am willing to give him a extra year, becasue i was alot more pissed with what shanny did his last 3 years here than what MCd has done in only 1 year and that includes the cutler saga and i liked cutler alot....

We can simply tender him? I don't tihnk we lose Marshall purely because Marshall wants to go, but because McD wants him to go.McD will NOT simply tender him. I'm telling you Inc, I don't think there is a way in hades this coach keeps Marshall, and there isn't a way that Marshall is going to turn around (especially after playing through that hip injury that was misdiagnosed by THIS staff) and sign a contract that is going to be 'easy' for the Broncos.

Plus, we do have to consider that the owners/coaches/players know that, as of right now, there is a VERY good chance we don't have football in 2011. They will want to get something for Marshall THIS year rather than wait after the 2011 season.

[Elevation inc]

Marshall didn't sit himself for the game days ahead of time, the coach did.

Marshall didn't go to the media and call McD him out and question and question his physical toughness, the coach did.

Every football player you here talk about this, has said that the coach can NOT go to the media and question a player's toughness publically like that. You not onlyl lose the player, but you lose others in the locker room as well. EVEN mark Schlereth (who has been one of Marshall's biggest critics) came down on McD for this. Many have.

The sitting of a player DAYS before the game, when he might have been able to play, was wrong. But going to the media and calling him out, THAT is what bothers me more than anything else. THAT is the ego and immaturity that I HATE to see from our coach/GM. Thats much more disturbing than sitting some player.

as i have stated numerous times in many of these threads...i know MCd handled this wrong, but i also belive the interpretation is worse than what MCd tried to imply originally.

however this is his fault becasue he opened teh avenue to the media to start with, again this i have stated plenty...

my issue is with people digging into false pretnese, inside sources from the DP and random post here to dervie fact about what was actually said how it was suppose to be interpreted and what teh actuall meaning was....

i also belive marshall and MCd talked about this after the game.,,,MCd after the game was very open to his accountability for what went down for the season...

he openly admitted there were things that worked and didnt, and that he could sit back and expect things to fix itself he had to do it....

so my beef is non-existent simply because i feel MCd made a mistake....


if i can forgive marshall for 3 years of trangressions and still want him here next year, i can ceratinly understand MCd is human and makes mistakes....

[Ravage!!!]

ghost - a mere shadow or semblance; a trace...a remote possibility

Of which you are making just as much speculation as you are stating that McD didn't make an emotional decision. You don't want people to speculate on the patterns that McD has shown, yet want to speculate on a 'ghost' injury.

[CoachChaz]

Marshall didn't sit himself for the game days ahead of time, the coach did.

Marshall didn't go to the media and call McD him out and question and question his physical toughness, the coach did.

Every football player you here talk about this, has said that the coach can NOT go to the media and question a player's toughness publically like that. You not onlyl lose the player, but you lose others in the locker room as well. EVEN mark Schlereth (who has been one of Marshall's biggest critics) came down on McD for this. Many have.

The sitting of a player DAYS before the game, when he might have been able to play, was wrong. But going to the media and calling him out, THAT is what bothers me more than anything else. THAT is the ego and immaturity that I HATE to see from our coach/GM. Thats much more disturbing than sitting some player.

it has nothing to do with anyone's ego. Good grief. McD called Brandon out. So what? It's not the first time it's ever happened in the NFL or any other sprt and surely wont be the last. If Brandon get's pissy that his coach called him out and chooses not to prove him worng, then that's on him. of course players and former players are going to say McD was wrong. They dont want to be in that situation either. Difference is...they dont put themselves in that situation. i dont see Bailey or DJ or Doom or Royal and others (all Shanny guys BTW) getting called out. Wonder why that is.

[CoachChaz]

Of which you are making just as much speculation as you are stating that McD didn't make an emotional decision. You don't want people to speculate on the patterns that McD has shown, yet want to speculate on a 'ghost' injury.

His hammy was sore...not injured. An injury would have been diagnosed. When you need to win to be in the playoffs, you can play with a sore hammy...not an injured one. There is no speculation there.

[Ravage!!!]

it has nothing to do with anyone's ego. Good grief. McD called Brandon out. So what? It's not the first time it's ever happened in the NFL or any other sprt and surely wont be the last. If Brandon get's pissy that his coach called him out and chooses not to prove him worng, then that's on him. of course players and former players are going to say McD was wrong. They dont want to be in that situation either. Difference is...they dont put themselves in that situation. i dont see Bailey or DJ or Doom or Royal and others (all Shanny guys BTW) getting called out. Wonder why that is.

Please. COme on Chaz.. if you don't see the HUGE ego this coach has, then you are intentionally closing your eyes to it. McD has a HUGE HUGE chip on his shoulder and has an gigantic ego. He acted just like the young manager put in charge of the new branch when he came in. DEMANDING respect and pushing at the big-boys first.

Its hard coming in and being compared to former bosses/coaches of a company/football team. McD didn't have a single season under his belt to hold an ounce of clout, and that kind of discomfort and insecurity showed from day one. Hence why all of a sudden all the former players are slowly (and NOT so slowly) being pushed out the door. Because if they aren't here, he doesn't have to feel as though he's working with employees hired by the LAST guy. We seee this ALLLLLl the time.

You can say a lot of things. but to actually deny this had nothing to do with ego is silly. OF COURSE the ex NFL players are saying it..because its TRUE. Schlereth was a leader in the locker room and never caused problems, yet he isn't jumping on MARSHALL (for whom he's been VERY critical of in the past for his attitude). I bet you believed Schlereth THEN.. when he agreed with you. But now its "they don't want to be in the same situation?"

Look.. you call it as you see it and I'll call it as I do. From what I can tell, you dont' have any more experience in locker rooms and on teams than I do, and thats cool. We both have a different perspective. I would just like to see a coach have more maturity than the very players we are saying are the problem makers.

[Ravage!!!]

His hammy was sore...not injured. An injury would have been diagnosed. When you need to win to be in the playoffs, you can play with a sore hammy...not an injured one. There is no speculation there.

Again chaz.. you are wrong on this. Al WIlson's injury was NOT diagnosed.... and AGAIN.. Marshall's hip injury was NOT DIAGNOSED LAST SEASON. What don't you get about that? Last year THIS med-staff told him it was ok to play through his "soreness" and that it wasn't an injury, only to find out AFTER the season and with a different doctor (from which he sought after because the 'soreness' didn't go away) found the real problem.... WHICH could have been a career ending injury! This staff told him there was NO injury, JUST as you are saying now. WHY ar you now saying that an injury "would have been diagnosed?" THis makes no sense and is NOT a statement of fact, whatsoever.

You are COMPLETELY speculating... not to mention, Marshall didn't pull himself out of the game. On WEDNESDAY he told the coach his hammy was sore... DAYS before the actual game day, he was benched by the coach. Does that make sense? If it as only sore, why not see if he could play on Sunday?? I mean, as you said, he could have played on a sore hammy for the playoffs, yet we didn't wait and see.

[CoachChaz]

Please. COme on Chaz.. if you don't see the HUGE ego this coach has, then you are intentionally closing your eyes to it. McD has a HUGE HUGE chip on his shoulder and has an gigantic ego. He acted just like the young manager put in charge of the new branch when he came in. DEMANDING respect and pushing at the big-boys first.

Its hard coming in and being compared to former bosses/coaches of a company/football team. McD didn't have a single season under his belt to hold an ounce of clout, and that kind of discomfort and insecurity showed from day one. Hence why all of a sudden all the former players are slowly (and NOT so slowly) being pushed out the door. Because if they aren't here, he doesn't have to feel as though he's working with employees hired by the LAST guy. We seee this ALLLLLl the time.

You can say a lot of things. but to actually deny this had nothing to do with ego is silly. OF COURSE the ex NFL players are saying it..because its TRUE. Schlereth was a leader in the locker room and never caused problems, yet he isn't jumping on MARSHALL (for whom he's been VERY critical of in the past for his attitude). I bet you believed Schlereth THEN.. when he agreed with you. But now its "they don't want to be in the same situation?"

Look.. you call it as you see it and I'll call it as I do. From what I can tell, you dont' have any more experience in locker rooms and on teams than I do, and thats cool. We both have a different perspective. I would just like to see a coach have more maturity than the very players we are saying are the problem makers.

For the record...Stink could agree with everything I say on this topic and I'd still think he was a moron.

Anyway, you know I respect your opinion and others that share it. I'm also on record as saying that I believe McD could have done a better job and if I dont see improvements next year, my patience with him will be alot thinner.

But egomaniacal and immature? i think that's stretching it a bit. Sure, he has to have confidence in decisions he makes and actions he takes, but i dont think he intentionally does things just to make him feel more "powerful" and while some of his actions are questionable, we all have to at least see that there is a possibility that there is a reason for his actions other than to simply piss people off and make him feel better about himself.

Is he a rookie coach that has learning to do when handling a team and personalities? Yes. no one can argue that. Is he an egomaniac that pouts and whines like a 5 year old for the sole purpose of destroying a team? Highly unlikely.

[CoachChaz]

Again chaz.. you are wrong on this. Al WIlson's injury was NOT diagnosed.... and AGAIN.. Marshall's hip injury was NOT DIAGNOSED LAST SEASON. What don't you get about that? Last year THIS med-staff told him it was ok to play through his "soreness" and that it wasn't an injury, only to find out AFTER the season and with a different doctor (from which he sought after because the 'soreness' didn't go away) found the real problem.... WHICH could have been a career ending injury! This staff told him there was NO injury, JUST as you are saying now. WHY ar you now saying that an injury "would have been diagnosed?" THis makes no sense and is NOT a statement of fact, whatsoever.

You are COMPLETELY speculating... not to mention, Marshall didn't pull himself out of the game. On WEDNESDAY he told the coach his hammy was sore... DAYS before the actual game day, he was benched by the coach. Does that make sense? If it as only sore, why not see if he could play on Sunday?? I mean, as you said, he could have played on a sore hammy for the playoffs, yet we didn't wait and see.

I think the benching goes further than the injury, but I'll admit...I'm merely speculating

[Ravage!!!]

For the record...Stink could agree with everything I say on this topic and I'd still think he was a moron.

Anyway, you know I respect your opinion and others that share it. I'm also on record as saying that I believe McD could have done a better job and if I dont see improvements next year, my patience with him will be alot thinner.

But egomaniacal and immature? i think that's stretching it a bit. Sure, he has to have confidence in decisions he makes and actions he takes, but i dont think he intentionally does things just to make him feel more "powerful" and while some of his actions are questionable, we all have to at least see that there is a possibility that there is a reason for his actions other than to simply piss people off and make him feel better about himself.

Is he a rookie coach that has learning to do when handling a team and personalities? Yes. no one can argue that. Is he an egomaniac that pouts and whines like a 5 year old for the sole purpose of destroying a team? Highly unlikely.

Intentionally to make himself feel more "powerful".. no. I don't think its intentional. I think he feels (as of right now) that if a player doesn't simply give him the "bow down" respect (and I use bow down, purely because I couldnt' think of a word atm), he gets his ire up.. and quickly. He wants to be looked UP at and point his fingers and for the players to do as they are told. But as many ex-NFL players have said this past week about McD..... he needs to realize that he's a teammate as well. He can't stand on the mountain and point and expect blind loyalty. Right now, when he doesn't get that, he puffs out his chest and makes 'emotional' decisions and emotional statements.

Maybe we have different definitions of what egomaniac is...but I dont' think he's solely out to intentionally destroy the team.... but I think (as you said) his inability to deal with players is a problem, and I think its his ego (maybe wrong word?) is why he has a hard problem with players.

Immaturity in the fact that he hasn't grown to be a confident coach that feels secure in his position without having to THROW his weight around in order to earn respect. Right now, he's DEMANDING loyalty and respect, and that doesn't work with grown men and/or spoiled young men.

[Ravage!!!]

I think the benching goes further than the injury, but I'll admit...I'm merely speculating

Me too! I think it had to do with McD's ego and immaturity!! :lol: :beer:

[CoachChaz]

Intentionally to make himself feel more "powerful".. no. I don't think its intentional. I think he feels (as of right now) that if a player doesn't simply give him the "bow down" respect (and I use bow down, purely because I couldnt' think of a word atm), he gets his ire up.. and quickly. He wants to be looked UP at and point his fingers and for the players to do as they are told. But as many ex-NFL players have said this past week about McD..... he needs to realize that he's a teammate as well. He can't stand on the mountain and point and expect blind loyalty. Right now, when he doesn't get that, he puffs out his chest and makes 'emotional' decisions and emotional statements.

Maybe we have different definitions of what egomaniac is...but I dont' think he's solely out to intentionally destroy the team.... but I think (as you said) his inability to deal with players is a problem, and I think its his ego (maybe wrong word?) is why he has a hard problem with players.

The items I bolded I believe can be gained with experience. We have to remember he's a rookie as well. Next year...this shit wont fly.

As far as emotional decisions...I'm not prepared to say that yet. Maybe they arent the best decisions, but I dont know that we can say he makes them more with his heart than his head.

[Ravage!!!]

The items I bolded I believe can be gained with experience. We have to remember he's a rookie as well. Next year...this shit wont fly.

As far as emotional decisions...I'm not prepared to say that yet. Maybe they arent the best decisions, but I dont know that we can say he makes them more with his heart than his head.

I agreee.. cause I think his over-inflated ego is all in his head :cool:

( I kid I kid)

[BroncoWave]

The NYG are desperate for a #1 WR. The loss of Plexiglass is glaring since last season.

There are plenty of teams that would make a play for Marshall.

:confused: I'm sorry am I wrong that Steve Smith caught 100 passes and that they have another good young WR with loads of potential in Hakeem Nicks? The Giants are anything but desperate for a WR IMO.

[CoachChaz]

:confused: I'm sorry am I wrong that Steve Smith caught 100 passes and that they have another good young WR with loads of potential in Hakeem Nicks? The Giants are anything but desperate for a WR IMO.

They also have Ramses Barden.

Per a good friend of mine that is a scout for NYG...WR is far from the top of their list of needs.

[Gimpygod]

I guess I missed where McD's "emotions" got in the way of how he handled players. he benched Marshall and Sheffler for acting like children. he didnt play Hillis much for reasons we dont know about.

Where does "emotion" come into play?

Your hypocrisy is absolutely stunning to me. Any conjecture you make about how things were handled, based on absolutely nothing, are reasonable and mature yet whenn the facts are used in an argument against you you arbitrarily call them baseless and not enough "proof." For instance calling Tony Scheffler immature or a child. You've got nothing but whenever you pull out of your butt as evidence for your statement but you pretend as though you were standing in the room taking notes. Here is all any of us know on that particular subject:

At worst an assistant coach heard a player, who has a skill set that can contribute greatly to the team, saying he couldn't wait for the season to be over. This after losing seven of nine games with some absolutely atrocious offense of playcalling directly attributing to those losses, frustrating because he probably believed he could contribute (educated conjecture on my part based on human nature but conjecture nonetheless).

However the player has directly stated to media outlets that he never said this and seems more hurt and disappointed than angry if you watch the interviews.

Knowing you, you assume the player is the devil And a cancer to the team no matter the circumstance so let's go with that first scenario. The first scenario suggests that McDaniels has all the judgment and decision making capability of a bitchy high school cheerleader snubbing others because of some rumor or another:listen: .

Here is the reality of the situation and you can choose to accept it or not. We did not improve at all this year. Our offense is significantly impaired in comparison When considering the categories of running success, third-down conversions, ball control etc.. that all falls directly on McDaniels. The defense went from atrocious to merely lackluster, an improvement directly attributable to Nolan. McDaniel has continually shown zero respect for players and their contribution to the team and importance. No one is more than trade fodder and will be thrown under the bus for even a minor infraction or even the appearance of a minor infraction. He shows insane deference to players who kiss his ass regardless of their skill level or abilitty to contribute. The skill level and raw athletic talent has degraded significantly and will erode even further next year because of this favoritism and bias. Anyone who only surrounds themselves with people who agree will never be successful because innovation and excellence is only born from the synthesis of conflict. (Holy crap I'm smart);)

Finally, no one has ever said that McDaniels doesn't want the team to win or have success as his ultimate goal. But so does everyone competing in Special Olympics and I don't want them running the Broncos either. Intent without ability results in nothing.

[claymore]

I stole this from Uncle Rico on the Freak.....


An exerpt from a DP article that I found interesting:

"...A similar spectrum of opinion greeted McDaniels' criticism of players inside the Broncos' meeting rooms and team plane this season. Some players found it relentlessly negative and sometimes emotional enough to seem personal. For the holdovers from the Mike Shanahan regime, it was a marked contrast in tone. Shanahan could be very critical, but he was dispassionate in a way that did not make players feel they were being attacked personally.

It should also be noted that some veteran players thought younger players offended by McDaniels' critiques needed to toughen up.

By announcing the benching of Marshall and Scheffler, McDaniels publicly marked his territory. You're either with his program or you're not. There's no in-between.

This view of absolute authority is very Belichickian, even if the public nature of the confrontation was not. It can work, as it has for Belichick in New England. And it can not work, as it did for former Belichick lieutenant Eric Mangini in New York, where he ultimately grew so unpopular with his Jets players, he had to go.

At this point, McDaniels pretty much has to get rid of Marshall and Scheffler, just as he had to get rid of Cutler after their spat, which means he will have dispatched three of the team's top offensive players from a year ago after wars of will.

If he can find replacements loyal to him and just as good, that personnel turnover will be viewed as his prerogative. If he can't, his inflexibility in these wars of will may come back to haunt him.

There is a theory in the NFL that Belichick's disciples have generally fared poorly on their own because while they saw him berate players in team meetings, they didn't see the repair work he did one-on-one."


Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/premium/br...#ixzz0brM4RHTx

[Elevation inc]

I stole this from Uncle Rico on the Freak.....

i think MCD worked some pretty good repair work with marshall after his TC stupidness dont you, as well as with some other players....

marshall has had 3 years of transgressions here and now all people focus on is MCd calling him out...i find that hilarious....

its a legit prespective from dave no doubt, but its still speculation....


and to be honest shanny let people get away with a ton......MCD doesnt shouldnt be a big deal, you mess up on tape and get called out, be a man and fix the problem...dont cry and whine....do your job....


these players are getting paid millions they cant handle a coach giving criticsm becasue they played like crap...they shouldnt be football players...

[sacmar]

*&%$ Marshall and anyone else who doesn't think two gazzillion dollors isn't enough to play a game for a living. For these guys being so big and tough they sure act like a bunch of girls most of the time.

[claymore]

i think MCD worked some pretty good repair work with marshall after his TC stupidness dont you, as well as with some other players....

marshall has had 3 years of transgressions here and now all people focus on is MCd calling him out...i find that hilarious....

its a legit prespective from dave no doubt, but its still speculation....

Its not about calling him out. Its about the timing of it and the publicity surrounding it.

No one is saying Marshal is a saint. Ive wanted to purge him since before camp. I just want it done when his value has peaked.

Any Bronco that erodes Marshals value before we can recoupe maximum value is an idiot, or doesnt have the team in their best intrest.

[Elevation inc]

Marshall didn't sit himself for the game days ahead of time, the coach did.

Marshall didn't go to the media and call McD him out and question and question his physical toughness, the coach did.

Every football player you here talk about this, has said that the coach can NOT go to the media and question a player's toughness publically like that. You not onlyl lose the player, but you lose others in the locker room as well. EVEN mark Schlereth (who has been one of Marshall's biggest critics) came down on McD for this. Many have.

The sitting of a player DAYS before the game, when he might have been able to play, was wrong. But going to the media and calling him out, THAT is what bothers me more than anything else. THAT is the ego and immaturity that I HATE to see from our coach/GM. Thats much more disturbing than sitting some player.


i missed this post but it seems people forget about shanny and his first year here a TAd he was raw and rough around the edges his first year to...rex ryan is way overemotional and ego filled and he has his boys in the playoffs....

the emotion and ego thing is a bit melodramatic..MCd is the coach...players just need to deal with it, its there job......many workers do it daily so can players that get paid millions to play a game...

[Elevation inc]

Its not about calling him out. Its about the timing of it and the publicity surrounding it.

No one is saying Marshal is a saint. Ive wanted to purge him since before camp. I just want it done when his value has peaked.

Any Bronco that erodes Marshals value before we can recoupe maximum value is an idiot, or doesnt have the team in their best intrest.


i dont know why people are talking value...his true value doesnt even begin to surface untill after the labor talks in february and he cant even be considered trade bait for value untill march....this whole value and trade thing is blown way out there...

im quite sure in 2 months this will all be quiet, and his value will still be the same....but even if it isnt we hold the cards and can simply tender the guy for 1 year and he has to play or not get paid whether he likes it or not again its really quite simple....he is a competiotr and will play especially since the realization has sunk in he wont budge MCd and he is screwed by the labor stuff....


and honestly with how the off-season will shape up with no CBA there will be limited FA's and mad rush to make trades for players on the block...

its a strecth to think his value has been tainted....his value is still as it awlays was...a diva, who is a beast on the field.....people stil lwent for TO, roy williams, Ocho cinco etc....it will be the same for marshall...

[JONtheBRONCO]

You come in, you make your mark, you hold people accountable, they follow by your rules, they address you by coach/sir/mr./mrs., they respect you, follow directions, not make excuses ETC.

you set the tone. you want to control and be IN control, esp in a NEW job, NEW place.

Pretty ******* simple, pretty basic at all levels of employment, whether its a supervisor at a detention center or a head coach in the NFL. Some managers are more personable than others, some aren't, usually theres a mix, and the results are equal.

I feel like the haters are just digging, and digging. Amazing didnt hear the same things when all was well, now that the season fails. We're doomed. Please.

[claymore]

i dont know why people are talking value...his true value doesnt even begin to surface untill after the labor talks in february and he cant even be considered trade bait for value untill march....this whole value and trade thing is blown way out there...

im quite sure in 2 months this will all be quiet, and his value will still be the same....but even if it isnt we hold the cards and can simply tender the guy for 1 year and he has to play or not get paid whether he likes it or not again its really quite simple....he is a competiotr and will play especially since the realization has sunk in he wont budge MCd and he is screwed by the labor stuff....


and honestly with how the off-season will shape up with no CBA there will be limited FA's and mad rush to make trades for players on the block...

its a strecth to think his value has been tainted....his value is still as it awlays was...a diva, who is a beast on the field.....people stil lwent for TO, roy williams, Ocho cinco etc....it will be the same for marshall...

Your ok With McDaniels handling something poorly. I cant argue with you about that.

[claymore]

You come in, you make your mark, you hold people accountable, they follow by your rules, they address you by coach/sir/mr./mrs., they respect you, follow directions, not make excuses ETC.

you set the tone. you want to control and be IN control, esp in a NEW job, NEW place.

Pretty ******* simple, pretty basic at all levels of employment, whether its a supervisor at a detention center or a head coach in the NFL. Some managers are more personable than others, some aren't, usually theres a mix, and the results are equal.

I feel like the haters are just digging, and digging. Amazing didnt hear the same things when all was well, now that the season fails. We're doomed. Please.
go to denverbroncos.com if you want the fluffy version.

[Poet]

Claymore, how did McDaniels handle Brandon Marshall poorly?

When he went cancer on the team he got benched and was made an example. Marshall came back and did his job until he quit on his team AGAIN and then got benched.

I'll give you a personal example as to why Marshall is the bad guy here; if Ocho Cinco was the football player Marshall was he would be on the bench this week.

:salute:

[claymore]

Claymore, how did McDaniels handle Brandon Marshall poorly?

When he went cancer on the team he got benched and was made an example. Marshall came back and did his job until he quit on his team AGAIN and then got benched.

I'll give you a personal example as to why Marshall is the bad guy here; if Ocho Cinco was the football player Marshall was he would be on the bench this week.

:salute:

McDaniels hurt Marshalls value, and called him out for being a sally. Marshall will never play for us again. It did no good. It only hurt his trade value, and brought more negative distracting situations to Denver.

If you all cant see that, then I cant make it any clearer.

[Poet]

McDaniels hurt Marshalls value, and called him out for being a sally. Marshall will never play for us again. It did no good. It only hurt his trade value, and brought more negative distracting situations to Denver.

If you all cant see that, then I cant make it any clearer.

Marshall's trade value isn't hurt by this because the teams who really wanted him then will still want him now. His value wasn't tremendous because of the shit he's done.

McDaniels did what was BEST for the team. Everyone knows whose locker room that is, and everyone knows who runs that show.

As far as distractions go, it would only be a distraction if you guys made the playoffs because your season is over my friend.

Showing that you won't tolerate and deal with guys who quit on the team doesn't hurt the team.

[claymore]

Marshall's trade value isn't hurt by this because the teams who really wanted him then will still want him now. His value wasn't tremendous because of the shit he's done.

McDaniels did what was BEST for the team. Everyone knows whose locker room that is, and everyone knows who runs that show.

As far as distractions go, it would only be a distraction if you guys made the playoffs because your season is over my friend.

Showing that you won't tolerate and deal with guys who quit on the team doesn't hurt the team.

He did it before the Chiefs game. So it was a distraction. As for not hurting his value, thats an excuse for handling something poorly.

In house. Lets practice stuff in house.

[Ravage!!!]

You come in, you make your mark, you hold people accountable, they follow by your rules, they address you by coach/sir/mr./mrs., they respect you, follow directions, not make excuses ETC.

you set the tone. you want to control and be IN control, esp in a NEW job, NEW place.

Pretty ******* simple, pretty basic at all levels of employment, whether its a supervisor at a detention center or a head coach in the NFL. Some managers are more personable than others, some aren't, usually theres a mix, and the results are equal.

I feel like the haters are just digging, and digging. Amazing didnt hear the same things when all was well, now that the season fails. We're doomed. Please.


I'll disagree in that the "results are equal." There is no way you can say that handling employees differently doesn't have different results. Havng bad relations with eimployees absolutely has a different result than those that have good relations. Coaches that have good relations with their coach, respect their coach cause it was earned, and will FIGHT for their coach will have better results than those that dont.

[Traveler]

Question. How do we know BM trade value is hurt when we don't know exactly what we're getting in return? Or if he even gets traded.

I tend to side with King87 on this matter.

[CoachChaz]

NOTHING about his value was hurt. We tender him high. Teams either give up a 1st and a 3rd...or he plays for us for $3 mil. I've yet to see/understand how his value was hurt when we dont even know if there is any intent to get rid of him.

If I'm missing something...please share it with me

[claymore]

Question. How do we know BM trade value is hurt when we don't know exactly what we're getting in return? Or if he even gets traded.

I tend to side with King87 on this matter.

Exactly. We dont. But it doesnt make sense to make him seem like even more of a risk to the buyer does it?

[Poet]

Claymore, he's a player that wants out.

People take those guys all the time.

I'm going to run this out there though, his value is lower than what a lot of people think.

[Elevation inc]

McDaniels hurt Marshalls value, and called him out for being a sally. Marshall will never play for us again. It did no good. It only hurt his trade value, and brought more negative distracting situations to Denver.

If you all cant see that, then I cant make it any clearer.

first off I have stated numeorus times MCd errored with the media avenue...but this value thing is a crack

the most we could ever get for him is a first and third based on the RFA rules....so why would a team trade more knowing thats all they have to give....

i feel there are at least 5 teams ready to deal with him the minute we give him a offer...they will outbid per the RFA rules us then give us a first and third for comepensation..techinically its not even a trade...thats his value know team will pay more knowing thats all they have to pay...

MCd affected his value zilch...only person effecting marshalls value is marshall...

worst case scenario he is pissy goes for 100 catches a probowl, and over 1000 yds again and we are right where we were....not really a big deal...

marshall holds no crads right now...zero...zilch...

[claymore]

NOTHING about his value was hurt. We tender him high. Teams either give up a 1st and a 3rd...or he plays for us for $3 mil. I've yet to see/understand how his value was hurt when we dont even know if there is any intent to get rid of him.

If I'm missing something...please share it with meId rather have a 1st and a 3rd than deal with this guy another year. If JMCD can get Marshall to play well another year for 3 mil, than my hats off.

But then we got a guy who is a major force, that we cant count on when we need him.


Claymore, he's a player that wants out.

People take those guys all the time.

I'm going to run this out there though, his value is lower than what a lot of people think.

Maybe. Maybe not.

[Elevation inc]

Claymore, he's a player that wants out.

People take those guys all the time.

I'm going to run this out there though, his value is lower than what a lot of people think.


doubtfull.....a team will pay the 1st and third with minum Quality WR Fa's becasue of the labor stuff....and if not guess what his value is still where it was before the saga...a player under contract with the denver broncos...LOL:salute:

[Poet]

doubtfull.....a team will pay the 1st and third with minum Quality WR Fa's becasue of the labor stuff....and if not guess what his value is still where it was before the saga...a player under contract with the denver broncos...LOL:salute:

He's worth a third and a first maximum. He's a cancerous player who plays the least important position in football. People aren't and were not ever going to be beating down the door for Brandon Marshall.

[claymore]

He's worth a third and a first maximum. He's a cancerous player who plays the least important position in football. People aren't and were not ever going to be beating down the door for Brandon Marshall.

And it helps for the HC to come out and question his toughness how?

[Poet]

And it helps for the HC to come out and question his toughness how?

It doesn't help or hurt. Once again, people already knew what Marshall was about. Maybe some fans thought he changed, but I don't think many people are....I hate to say it but gullible.

Two weeks ago he was the same guy that he was now. And the same teams that would have been interested in him then would be interested in him now.

[claymore]

It doesn't help or hurt. Once again, people already knew what Marshall was about. Maybe some fans thought he changed, but I don't think many people are....I hate to say it but gullible.

Two weeks ago he was the same guy that he was now. And the same teams that would have been interested in him then would be interested in him now.
Saying it didnt hurt the already delicate image of Brandon Marshall is silly.

[CoachChaz]

He's worth a third and a first maximum. He's a cancerous player who plays the least important position in football. People aren't and were not ever going to be beating down the door for Brandon Marshall.

There was a time when I'd agree with this, but here's an interesting tidbit.

10 QB's threw for over 4000 yards this season...an NFL record. Of those 10, 7 are in the playoffs. You could make an argument that in any other season, Palmer, McNabb and Warner (the 3 that didnt hit 4000) could easily match that number.

That being said, I think the trend is leaning toward teams passing in order to excel. That, by nature, increases the value of the guys catching all those balls.

The flipside. Marshall has 2 of the top 5 games all time in terms of receptions...but in all those receptions, how many 100 yard games does he have and how many TD's does he have?

I guess my point is that teams that NEED a solid WR would be interested REGARDLESS of McD benching him or not. however, I think the team that needs his skill the most, is the team that currently employs him. I dont see him playing elsewhere next season unless some team blows us away with a trade.

[CoachChaz]

Saying it didnt hurt the already delicate image of Brandon Marshall is silly.

I'm not sure how you make a turd look MORE like a turd, but if you have an explanation, I'm all for an answer

[claymore]

I'm not sure how you make a turd look MORE like a turd, but if you have an explanation, I'm all for an answer

You question his toughness and bench him before his last game as a Bronco.

[arapaho2]

i think MCD worked some pretty good repair work with marshall after his TC stupidness dont you, as well as with some other players....

marshall has had 3 years of transgressions here and now all people focus on is MCd calling him out...i find that hilarious....

its a legit prespective from dave no doubt, but its still speculation....


and to be honest shanny let people get away with a ton......MCD doesnt shouldnt be a big deal, you mess up on tape and get called out, be a man and fix the problem...dont cry and whine....do your job....


these players are getting paid millions they cant handle a coach giving criticsm becasue they played like crap...they shouldnt be football players...


please explain the three years worth of transgressions against the bronco team?..his DUI...? sure it made him look bad, but in no way did it effct the team...his rap sheet? again none against the broncos..all involving a
psychotic GF....sure he was suspended one game..a game in which we won easily....he went to court later and was cleared by a jury of mainly women of the other charge..so that never effected us
has he been a cancer...has he berated players, coaches, went and badmouthed the team to the media...othewr then the contract talk...no
he showed imaturity this summer...an act marshall admitted he was wrong in doing...he has played through injuries...taken loads of hits AS THE #1 WR FOR THE PAST 3 SEASONS... and so how many games has he missed?
transgressions as i take it would mean acts against the team...he had off the field issues...not the same
then the problem with being totalitarian as josh aspires is these are men...no body is saying marshall or scheff has issues with being pointed out in practise...the problem is being rediculed and pointed out to the media..its a team...you keep your dirty laundry in the house
to single out and put down a player in meetings isnt right either...some have the will to let it go..turn the other cheek...some dont ..it has nothing to do with growing a pair

i spent 25 years in maintenance and construction for hud..i was not only a Housing quality standards inspector...but a licensed UBC, ICBO unified BUilding Inspector..i ran a program with up to 30 people under me and close to a million dollar office budget .....i moved on a few years ago
after a couple years there was a oppertunity for a maintenance supervisor at a local agency...small, seven rental houses and a office building. so i applied for it..meanwhile the agency asked me if i wanted to work for them in the time being since it was a federal job and could take some time..i went ahead....they had this employee who as a friend of the agency administrator was put into the temporary position of supervisor..no older then me...and way less expirience..totaly lost in the skils needed to handle the job...or employees
much like josh...he choose to imediatly enforce his so called position...he began to flaunt his power..dictate...and single out employees...one day..he called a meeting about a week into my temp employment...where he publicaly went to great lengths to show me who was in charge...singleing me out ..pointing fingers and saying things like.."do you understand me" like i was a stupid child...he never had so m uch as one supervisory position in his life...i had run program a lot bigger...and he's going all apeshit on me?
i didnt work there long after that, it didnt help me..didnt make me better, didnt make me want to work harder, it made me angry....but still remember the gall and have zero respect or use for the guy to this day...and i see him all the time

doing what josh did may have its drawbacks we have yet to be seen

[Poet]

There was a time when I'd agree with this, but here's an interesting tidbit.

10 QB's threw for over 4000 yards this season...an NFL record. Of those 10, 7 are in the playoffs. You could make an argument that in any other season, Palmer, McNabb and Warner (the 3 that didnt hit 4000) could easily match that number.

That being said, I think the trend is leaning toward teams passing in order to excel. That, by nature, increases the value of the guys catching all those balls.

The flipside. Marshall has 2 of the top 5 games all time in terms of receptions...but in all those receptions, how many 100 yard games does he have and how many TD's does he have?

I guess my point is that teams that NEED a solid WR would be interested REGARDLESS of McD benching him or not. however, I think the team that needs his skill the most, is the team that currently employs him. I dont see him playing elsewhere next season unless some team blows us away with a trade.
Great post.

I would like to point out that most of those teams have good WR depth. A team needs a WR who can at least be a threat to beat double coverage. That being said, I've seen T.J. Houshmanzadeh do that and he was our number two WR and is barely Seattle's number one WR.

The Chargers are deep with receiving threats - Jackson, Gates, LT and Sproles in the backfield, etc etc etc. The Colts have Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Addai's a decent threat. The Patriots have/had Moss, Welker, Faulk, etc etc etc. The Bengals have Ocho...and...Caldwell in the clutch.

The Ravens have Mason and Heap is still a decent threat. The Jets have Edwards (who sucks) and honestly that's about it. So yes, you do need someone who is good at the position, but at this point in the NFL you could swap star WR with star TE, or star WR with 'solid players across the board' like the Saints, the old Patriots, the Steelers, etc etc etc.

The NFC teams - The Cowboys have Austin (who at the moment should be considered to be a number one), Witten, Roy Williams. They're stacked. The Saints have a bunch of solid guys, Colsten is a strong WR though. The Cardinals are arguably and IMO the strongest team in regards to passing threats with Fitz, Boldin and Breaston. The Vikings have a bunch of above average guys, so do the Packers, and the Eagles have guys who make big plays but don't have staggering numbers.

So when I look at this list I see that there's several ways to go about building a great passing attack, and I know which one I would prefer. It's nice to have a massive threat as a WR, and I don't discount. One of my big beefs with the Saints was that they didn't have a real go to guy. Note that I said 'go-to-guy' and not stat god. I want a go-to-guy, he can be solid like Mason or explosive like Andre Johnson. But I'd rather have threat density across the board than a one man show.

[Poet]

You question his toughness and bench him before his last game as a Bronco.

And you show your team that it's ok to quit on each other.

[Poet]

Saying it didnt hurt the already delicate image of Brandon Marshall is silly.

You live in la la land drink too much. ;)

[Ravage!!!]

He's worth a third and a first maximum. He's a cancerous player who plays the least important position in football. People aren't and were not ever going to be beating down the door for Brandon Marshall.

People said the same thing about Williams before he went to Dallas, and Marshall is MUCH MUCH Better than Williams has ever been.

[Poet]

People said the same thing about Williams before he went to Dallas, and Marshall is MUCH MUCH Better than Williams has ever been.

How many teams are as dumb as the Cowboys?

[claymore]

And you show your team that it's ok to quit on each other.

You must have missed the Chiefs game.

[claymore]

You live in la la land drink too much. ;)

Whatever, all I know is saying something bad about something you are trying to sell isnt the way its done normally.

[Poet]

You must have missed the Chiefs game.

I didn't see Marshall on the field for that one. Gee, I hope he didn't hurt his hammy so bad that there wasn't any structural damage because that'd be awful.

[Gimpygod]

*&%$ Marshall and anyone else who doesn't think two gazzillion dollors isn't enough to play a game for a living. For these guys being so big and tough they sure act like a bunch of girls most of the time.


I put almost all of you guys in the same category as far as work ethic and the like with my dad. Meaning you are all the true heroes in this world and work your hearts out because it's the right thing to do and to support your family. Speculating again but I believe many would eat poop and broken glass sandwiches all day long for half as much money as the spoiled athletes believe they deserve. The argument that these guys are being paid to compensate for the physical damage they take is a load of bull as well. Countless jobs wreck hard-working people's bodies every day; back problems, joints and other maladies are extremely common in those who have done real work their entire lives. Even people who are dedicated salesman or drive a truck all day long are risking cardiovascular health so on this point I agree with you... screw them. However, human beings adapt very quickly and come to expect even the most spectacular rewards if they are presented early and often. People in their early 20s who have spent their entire life being praised and greatly were awarded for their talents begin to believe they are entitled.

[Ravage!!!]

I guess my point is that teams that NEED a solid WR would be interested REGARDLESS of McD benching him or not. however, I think the team that needs his skill the most, is the team that currently employs him. I dont see him playing elsewhere next season unless some team blows us away with a trade.

But you aren't including the coach in this. You aren't taking into account the coach-wr relationship that is already strained, and where marshalll already pulled the "doing what you have to do, hug the coach" routine. This coach already has disciplined him twice, and knows that Marshall is not going to bow down to him. The relationship between the two will NOT co-exist.

There is a GOOD chance of there being NO football in 2011. I don't think the coach pays Marshall the kind of money he wants... thus no contract. There may be no Cap..thus now "franchise tag".... and that may mean NO play from him with a hold-out. Why not get what we can for him Now.... because the relationship between Marshall and the coach, from this point forward, will ALWAYS hve that tension in the backround. "When is marshall not going to do exactly what the coach wants, and when will the coach over-react again and bench him?" This will be all throughout the off season, the TCs, the pre-season, and the season itself.

I think this team makes moves to get rid of Marshall and he doesn't play here, despite us needing him here.

[Ravage!!!]

I put almost all of you guys in the same category as far as work ethic and the like with my dad. Meaning you are all the true heroes in this world and work your hearts out because it's the right thing to do and to support your family. Speculating again but I believe many would eat poop and broken glass sandwiches all day long for half as much money as the spoiled athletes believe they deserve. The argument that these guys are being paid to compensate for the physical damage they take is a load of bull as well. Countless jobs wreck hard-working people's bodies every day; back problems, joints and other maladies are extremely common in those who have done real work their entire lives. Even people who are dedicated salesman or drive a truck all day long are risking cardiovascular health so on this point I agree with you... screw them. However, human beings adapt very quickly and come to expect even the most spectacular rewards if they are presented early and often. People in their early 20s who have spent their entire life being praised and greatly were awarded for their talents begin to believe they are entitled.

They aren't being paid to compensate the damage done on their bodies.

But lets say that you were born with a unique deformed thumb. Now, one out of every 250, 000 people are born with this unique deformity. I come along, and develop a spoon, that can ONLY be made by people with this unusual deformity. Whatever the deformity is, it allows you to craft these unique spoons.... the GREATEST spoons in the world. Everyone in the world wants these spoons.

As a result of them being the greatest spoons in the world, I make BILLIONS of dollars off selling these spoons. Knowing that you have a unique ability that only 1 out of every 250,000 people in the world have, how much do you think you should be paid to craft these unique spoons if you know I'm making BILLIONS off them? You think you should be paid the normal factory wage? I mean, you aren't working any harder than they are. You aren't putting yourself in danger. So what percentage of these BILLIONS should be paid by the very unique craftsman of this product?

[claymore]

I didn't see Marshall on the field for that one. Gee, I hope he didn't hurt his hammy so bad that there wasn't any structural damage because that'd be awful.

No he was at the house. Our all accountable squad was out there dropping balls, getting spanked, throwing INT's etc...

[Poet]

No he was at the house. Our all accountable squad was out there dropping balls, getting spanked, throwing INT's etc...

Good, I'm glad that he was at the house. I wouldn't want him to injury... um, er....re-injure that hammy that kept him out of the game.

That's what you don't get, Claymore. He wasn't going to be in that game anyway because he wouldn't play. He wasn't injured, he wasn't hurt, he could play, he quit. Yet somehow you're bashing McDaniels for disciplining a player who quit on his team.

So we both agree that Marshall could have been in that game. Get mad at him and stop bashing a coach who has honestly made you look like a damn fool for the entire season.

[dogfish]

clay vs. king, steel cage match. . . set it up!

[Poet]

clay vs. king, steel cage match. . . set it up!

I say he gets really drunk and I starve myself. That way only one of us walks away from it.

[arapaho2]

Question. How do we know BM trade value is hurt when we don't know exactly what we're getting in return? Or if he even gets traded.

I tend to side with King87 on this matter.

who would you pay more for

a two time probowl player at the end of his contract...on a team with a new coach reluctant to spend the money needed to pay a top 5 wr...

or a two time probowl wr who just had his coach bench him for not wanting to play with a faked injury with the playoffs on the line...a quitter....who now is labeled a cancer


i think i'll go with the top guy

[rcsodak]

Cause you agree that McDaniels cant handle keeping his trap shut?

Obviously you didn't read/listen to McD's presser. :coffee:

He addressed you personally.

[Poet]

who would you pay more for

a two time probowl player at the end of his contract...on a team with a new coach reluctant to spend the money needed to pay a top 5 wr...

or a two time probowl wr who just had his coach bench him for not wanting to play with a faked injury with the playoffs on the line...a quitter....who now is labeled a cancer


i think i'll go with the top guy

If the Broncos just said he's hurt and then shopped him around you don't think that the other teams would put two and two together?

[Ravage!!!]

If the Broncos just said he's hurt and then shopped him around you don't think that the other teams would put two and two together?

Considering how many injuries there are in the NFL each and every week, do you assume that an injury is some kind of hidden conflict between coach and player when you hear it? I don't.

I don't think teams would have put those two together at all. THere wouldnt have been reason to, considering the public displays of hugging and getting along. I think the most likely thing they would have put together is that the Broncos didin't/don't want to pay him a big salary next year.

[Poet]

Considering how many injuries there are in the NFL each and every week, do you assume that an injury is some kind of hidden conflict between coach and player when you hear it? I don't.

I don't think teams would have put those two together at all. THere wouldnt have been reason to, considering the public displays of hugging and getting along. I think the most likely thing they would have put together is that the Broncos didin't/don't want to pay him a big salary next year.

No, I don't think that there's many issues at all, because most players who actually are healthy and in a position to play.....play.

This is going to come off as me being condescending, and I apologize for it, but the only people who bought the "look at what Brandon's doing now" crap were Bronco fans.