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WARHORSE
02-22-2008, 12:40 PM
The Jets have given Vilma the right to shop himself. If the knee passes our medical staff, Id give em Javon and a seventh.

Jonathan Vilma can fly away

BY RICH CIMINI
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Friday, February 22nd 2008, 4:00 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/22/amd_vilma.jpg Weissman for News Jonathan Vilma


Jonathan Vilma (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jonathan+Vilma)'s days with the Jets (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York+Jets) are numbered.
The popular linebacker, whose star has dimmed in two seasons under Eric Mangini (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Eric+Mangini), has received permission from the Jets to shop himself for a potential trade, the Daily News has learned. It doesn't mean a trade is a certainty, but it's a tacit acknowledgement from both sides that Vilma and Mangini's 3-4 scheme aren't a match.
Vilma, with one year remaining on his rookie contract, also is looking for a long-term deal. Now, with the Jets' blessing, he has the ability to speak with any team. If he agrees to a new contract, it will be up to that team and the Jets to negotiate trade compensation. The Jets could keep him, but they know they won't receive anything next year if he bolts as a free agent. A team spokeman declined comment.
It's unclear what the Jets are seeking, but there's no doubt that Vilma's value took a hit because of major knee surgery last November. Vilma has started jogging and hopes to be running full speed in about a month, he wrote this week on his Web site. If he can show he's healthy before the April 26 draft, it will greatly enhance his stock. Sources believe the Jets could get a third-round pick, perhaps slightly higher, for a healthy Vilma.
The Jaguars (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jacksonville+Jaguars) and Saints (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Orleans+Saints) are believed to be among the potential suitors. The Saints have made no secret of their desire to acquire a middle linebacker, as they've already made an offer to former Dolphin Zach Thomas (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Zach+Thomas). Former Jets defensive coordinator Donnie Henderson (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Donnie+Henderson) was recently hired by the Jaguars as an assistant, which explains their interest.
Under Henderson, who ran a 4-3 defense, Vilma was named the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2004. In 2005, he made the Pro Bowl as an alternate, looking like one of the Jets' best first-round picks in years.
When Mangini arrived in 2006 and switched to a 3-4, Vilma's production suffered. Hiding his frustration, at least publicly, he vowed to adapt his sideline-to-sideline style into the more restrictive 3-4 scheme. But he got off to a slow start and suffered a mysterious knee injury in the seventh game, sidelining him for the remainder of the season.
Neither Vilma nor the club explained the nature of the injury, but it was related to a pre-existing condition that required complicated surgery. In the meantime, rookie David Harris (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/David+Harris) flourished in Vilma's role as the defensive signal-caller. In fact, the overall defense improved with Harris in the lineup on a full-time basis.
Mangini was vague yesterday when discussing Vilma at the scouting combine in Indianapolis (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Indianapolis). He said Vilma is "making some good progress" in his rehab, but when asked if he still considers Vilma a starter, Mangini replied, "It's one of those things where you're going to have to evaluate it as we go and hope everything works out. But Jon's a good player. He's a smart player. He's been very productive for us and he's incredibly competitive."
Vilma's agent, Mitch Frankel (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Mitch+Frankel), was traveling to the combine and couldn't be reached for comment. Vilma, on his Web site, said he hasn't heard anything from the club with regard to his future.

MHCBill
02-22-2008, 12:43 PM
Size and weight please...

tubby
02-22-2008, 12:44 PM
I'd rather have Al Wilson than Vilma.

studbucket
02-22-2008, 12:48 PM
I think there is something to be said for the chemistry that could develop between Vilma and DJ, bring some solid leadership to the defense together. It would also serve to keep both of them here and together.

Heck if we had them and Boss Bailey, think of the camaraderie on Defense ;) Not sure if it's the best route, but it's an entertaining thought.

WARHORSE
02-22-2008, 12:55 PM
I'd rather have Al Wilson than Vilma.


If Vilma is healthy, no way. In the 4-3 MLB, he is devastating. He won defensive rookie of the year, and was making plays all over the field.

Since Coles and Vilma both want to leave the JETS, lets give em Javon and a third for Vilma and Coles.:cool:

BOSSHOGG30
02-22-2008, 12:56 PM
If Vilma is healthy, no way. In the 4-3 MLB, he is devastating. He won defensive rookie of the year, and was making plays all over the field.

Since Coles and Vilma both want to leave the JETS, lets give em Javon and a third for Vilma and Coles.:cool:

where are we going to get the 3rd to give them?

mclark
02-22-2008, 01:11 PM
If Vilma is healthy, no way. In the 4-3 MLB, he is devastating. He won defensive rookie of the year, and was making plays all over the field.

Since Coles and Vilma both want to leave the JETS, lets give em Javon and a third for Vilma and Coles.:cool:

Health is the key. If he's healthy, I'm all for Vilma coming in.

WARHORSE
02-22-2008, 01:14 PM
where are we going to get the 3rd to give them?


'Next year.

shank
02-22-2008, 03:00 PM
Size and weight please...

i believe he's 6'1" 230


like has been said health is key. everything depends on the knee. reuiniting dj and john sounds sexy in theory though.

BOSSHOGG30
02-22-2008, 03:05 PM
Vilma
TEAM: New York Jets
HEIGHT/WEIGHT: 6'1' / 230
DOB: 4/16/1982
AGE: 25
COLLEGE: Miami (FL)
CONTRACT INFO: 2007: $750,000, 2008: $1,097,500, 2009: Free Agent

BOSSHOGG30
02-22-2008, 03:06 PM
Good thing about him is if we deal for him and he gets hurt... he will be a free agent so he won't cost us anything.

shank
02-22-2008, 03:10 PM
Good thing about him is if we deal for him and he gets hurt... he will be a free agent so he won't cost us anything.

just keep him on his current contract until he proves the knee is ok. i like it. either that or make sure the contract includes playing time incentives if we did give him a new contract.

with how hard we seem to be pursuing a new MLB, i think vilma would be amazing value if he can stay healthy.


(as dogfish will tell us, it seems like we have been saying that an awful lot lately)

shank
02-22-2008, 03:12 PM
'Next year.

as far as i know a pick in a future draft's value is pretty much halved, meaning it would take more than next years 3rd to get vilma. try again.

MHCBill
02-22-2008, 03:15 PM
Not sure about his size...

Do you think he's big enough to play MLB in the NFL?

I know, he played it his rookie year, but won't the constant pounding from interior offensive linemen take it's toll?

G_Money
02-22-2008, 03:17 PM
Vilma would be perfect here. Absolutely perfect. He's a little bit small, but I worry less about that than about some other stuff, and he proved with the Jets that in a 4-3 he's plenty big enough.

He'd make DJ into a monster again (partly by moving him back to the weak-side, partly because he knows DJ like the back of his hand) and he'd be the leader on the defense that we are sorely lacking.

If his knee is right (and that's a biiiig if) I'd love to add Vilma.

And thanks to his injury it shouldn't cost much. I'd sure be willing to find out.

~G

BOSSHOGG30
02-22-2008, 03:17 PM
Not sure about his size...

Do you think he's big enough to play MLB in the NFL?

I know, he played it his rookie year, but won't the constant pounding from interior offensive linemen take it's toll?

Not if we got a DT that could be a force with Thomas. Vilma's speed is uncanny. He makes up for his size similar to how the younger Gold did.

G_Money
02-22-2008, 03:19 PM
as far as i know a pick in a future draft's value is pretty much halved, meaning it would take more than next years 3rd to get vilma. try again.

Rule of thumb is it drops a round.

So if you're trading a 3rd next year, it's valued as a 4th.

With Vilma's knee injury and contract status, it shouldn't take much more than that, if any more at all.

~G

MHCBill
02-22-2008, 03:19 PM
Would you trade a #4 for him?

shank
02-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Not if we got a DT that could be a force with Thomas. Vilma's speed is uncanny. He makes up for his size similar to how the younger Gold did.

i don't know if you stressed that enough...

vilma performed well (obviously not stellar) in a 3-4 despite his small size, and in a 4-3 could easily overcome his size with his skillset as boss said.

shank
02-22-2008, 03:21 PM
Rule of thumb is it drops a round.

So if you're trading a 3rd next year, it's valued as a 4th.

With Vilma's knee injury and contract status, it shouldn't take much more than that, if any more at all.

~G

oh, ok. i'm sure someone told me last offseason that they were almost halved...

well then do you see vilma only having 4th round value, even with the knee injury?

G_Money
02-22-2008, 03:21 PM
Not if we got a DT that could be a force with Thomas. Vilma's speed is uncanny. He makes up for his size similar to how the younger Gold did.

Vilma isn't just fast - he also has that thing that DJ doesn't have: instincts.

He recognizes plays faster than other guys so he gets started in the right direction faster. He makes up for his size by beating the offensive guys to the hole.

With a good knee he's still got many more exceedingly productive years left IMO.

~G

G_Money
02-22-2008, 03:23 PM
Would you trade a #4 for him?

Yes. We've got another one, but we're not likely to net a Vilma out of the slot. And a high 4 sounds about right based on what injured players have been traded for the last coupla years. Might require a 3 (which we don't have) but we could throw in another player to make it work.

~G

shank
02-22-2008, 03:27 PM
Yes. We've got another one, but we're not likely to net a Vilma out of the slot. And a high 4 sounds about right based on what injured players have been traded for the last coupla years. Might require a 3 (which we don't have) but we could throw in another player to make it work.

~G

maybe walker? bad knee for bad knee? i remember hearing that coles is not so happy there anymore and he too is coming off an injury.

BOSSHOGG30
02-22-2008, 03:29 PM
Give the Jets, Foxworth, Walker, and a 4th for Vilma and Coles.

Or work a trade to get Vilma, Coles and the 6th pick for a shot at Sedrick Ellis or Glenn Dorsey.

MHCBill
02-22-2008, 03:57 PM
Broncos get... Vilma and Jets #1 (#6 overall)

Jets get... Walker, Foxworth, Broncos #1, Broncos #4, and Broncos '09 #2

Then we have to pray Ellis or Dorsey fall.

shank
02-22-2008, 04:07 PM
Broncos get... Vilma and Jets #1 (#6 overall)

Jets get... Walker, Foxworth, Broncos #1, Broncos #4, and Broncos '09 #2

Then we have to pray Ellis or Dorsey fall.

that doesn't sound terrible if everything works out.

but to me i immediately see 2 huge 'ifs'

vilma's knee is busted

dorsey/ellis go in top 5

either way really screws us, plus losing foxworth makes S a bigger priority and CB a need in the draft...

i'm tryin to think of other stuff to say, but my head hurts. i'm gonna shut it down for a bit lol.


adding: i think if dorsey was available at six then i wouldn't mind a deal being worked. as good as ellis is, i'd rather have a guy who can play more of a NT role. If everything that i've heard about slowik's attack first style, then ellis might work, but getting a guy that is much smaller than thomas (a great 3-technique guy) has me a little worried.

atwater27
02-22-2008, 04:18 PM
I would do what it takes to get Vilma in the fold, EVEN IF HE CAN"T PLAY THIS SEASON!
That's how good I think he would be for us.
Unless he has the same knee issues Terrell had. Then I would not do it.

topscribe
02-22-2008, 04:40 PM
Vilma would be perfect here. Absolutely perfect. He's a little bit small, but I worry less about that than about some other stuff, and he proved with the Jets that in a 4-3 he's plenty big enough.

He'd make DJ into a monster again (partly by moving him back to the weak-side, partly because he knows DJ like the back of his hand) and he'd be the leader on the defense that we are sorely lacking.

If his knee is right (and that's a biiiig if) I'd love to add Vilma.

And thanks to his injury it shouldn't cost much. I'd sure be willing to find out.

~G

That was the first thing I thought about: Vilma and D.J. reunited.

I can't help but to think D.J. would like that, too.

-----

BOSSHOGG30
02-22-2008, 04:42 PM
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o5/bosshogg30/DJWilliamsandBrandon.jpg
That was the first thing I thought about: Vilma and D.J. reunited.

I can't help but to think D.J. would like that, too.

-----

mclark
02-22-2008, 04:43 PM
as far as i know a pick in a future draft's value is pretty much halved, meaning it would take more than next years 3rd to get vilma. try again.

They're going to cut him if they can't trade him. I think it would cost less than a third, say a fourth or even a fifth. They want to get rid of him.

Retired_Member_001
02-22-2008, 06:23 PM
I think we have to go after Vilma. I would take a risk on him, as long as it wasn't too big of a risk. I think the Broncos are going to have to see how healthy he is. D.J. Williams and Jonathan Vilma would be deadly together, simply deadly.


Vilma isn't just fast - he also has that thing that DJ doesn't have: instincts.

He recognizes plays faster than other guys so he gets started in the right direction faster. He makes up for his size by beating the offensive guys to the hole.

With a good knee he's still got many more exceedingly productive years left IMO.

~G

I completely agree G.

WARHORSE
02-22-2008, 07:25 PM
as far as i know a pick in a future draft's value is pretty much halved, meaning it would take more than next years 3rd to get vilma. try again.


Its my trade, and I said next year.:salute:

mopatt24
02-22-2008, 07:26 PM
This is almost a no-brainer to look at for the Broncos. I'm pretty sure he's able to come back from his injury, but the Broncos would be getting a hell of a linebacker, a voice in the locker room and on the field, and a chance to put a wrecking crew back together with Vilma and Williams.

They have to take a look at this

Hoshdude7
02-22-2008, 07:28 PM
IF this guy is as good as you say I'd be glad to see him here.

WARHORSE
02-22-2008, 07:34 PM
IF this guy is as good as you say I'd be glad to see him here.


His first two years in a 4-3 defense, his stats were so:

Rookie Year:

108 total tackles
2 sacks
3 INTs
1 TD
5 Passes Defensed


Year 2 in the 4-3:

178 tackles. Thats right, I said 178 tackles.
.5 sack
1 INT
4 Forced Fumbles
6 PDs


This guy has hands to intercept, and defend the pass. Not to mention the ability to make tackles all over the field.

I believe his first year he was OLB, and his second he was MLB. He is ample at both in the 4-3.

jhns
02-22-2008, 07:58 PM
I would love to see Vilma come here. Him and DJ, together, would be a good thing for this team.

nevcraw
02-22-2008, 08:17 PM
A risk worth taking for a lower mid-round pick..

shank
02-22-2008, 09:12 PM
Its my trade, and I said next year.:salute:

vilma is on the last year of his contract with the jets. he will be dealt somewhere this offseason and by next year could be hurt again and not worth looking at or could be healthy and be worth much more.

i like the idea of getting him, and if dorsey is there at 6, i like the idea of working adeal for both.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-22-2008, 09:31 PM
Too much healthy depth in this year's draft who won't be a FA after this season...no thanx. We all bich about Henry and Javon's injuryproneness (yeah...nice word, huh?), but are drooling over Vilma who could be one in the same. Reuniting him w/ DJ sounds great, but over the long term...not a wise investment.

Drill-N-Fill
02-22-2008, 09:39 PM
I think Walker is the reason why we don't go for Vilma. Shanny got burned with getting an injury pron Walker. He's not going to make this deal unless he's sure Vilma will hold up. And right now, Vilma isn't close. Shanny won't send
Warhorse's 3rd next year. If he does it, its for a 5th or below.

Watchthemiddle
02-22-2008, 10:23 PM
If Vilma is healthy, no way. In the 4-3 MLB, he is devastating. He won defensive rookie of the year, and was making plays all over the field.

Since Coles and Vilma both want to leave the JETS, lets give em Javon and a third for Vilma and Coles.:cool:

I'd be on board with that.

I just want to see Vilma and DJ together again. They would cause havoc for opposing teams.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-22-2008, 10:28 PM
This isn't the ACC.

#1bmarshfan
02-22-2008, 11:16 PM
yee we better get him

Timmy!
02-23-2008, 02:59 AM
Vilma, IF healthy, is a beast. It's a gamble, but I think it's a gamble worth taking based on the asking price. DJ and Vilma together would be nasty. Not that I'm huge Nate Webster fan, but he went to the "U" as well. I'm sure the 3 of them would make a nasty LB trio.

If we could get Vilma, Johnson/Coles, and Rodgers/Coleman, I could die happy.

Stargazer
02-23-2008, 03:32 AM
Please pass. Build through the draft.

Watchthemiddle
02-23-2008, 03:37 AM
Please pass. Build through the draft.

We still can. This team has so many needs it can't just be done through the draft. Unless we want to be in a re-building stage for 2-3 years.

Stargazer
02-23-2008, 03:56 AM
We still can. This team has so many needs it can't just be done through the draft. Unless we want to be in a re-building stage for 2-3 years.

This team has been rebuilding since the AFC Championship game. Denver needs to stick to the plan and continue building through the draft.

I do not agree trading picks for questionable players>

Retired_Member_001
02-23-2008, 10:47 AM
Please pass. Build through the draft.

If Vilma is healthy, he would be a better pick up than anyone we could get with a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Lonestar
02-23-2008, 12:58 PM
If Vilma is healthy, he would be a better pick up than anyone we could get with a 3rd or 4th round pick.


For the money not, for experience perhaps, but he has a lot of miles on those knees.

I'd rather go for youth and rebuild for next year.. Opposed to another feeble attempt at reloading for another mediocre season..

aberdien
02-23-2008, 03:13 PM
I'd be happy with that or getting a MLB in the draft.

jhns
02-23-2008, 03:48 PM
For the money not, for experience perhaps, but he has a lot of miles on those knees.

I'd rather go for youth and rebuild for next year.. Opposed to another feeble attempt at reloading for another mediocre season..

Vilma is not old. He is going to be in the league for many more seasons.

Lonestar
02-23-2008, 04:15 PM
Vilma is not old. He is going to be in the league for many more seasons.


At what level? on bad knees!!!

dogfish
02-23-2008, 04:31 PM
Too much healthy depth in this year's draft who won't be a FA after this season...no thanx. We all bich about Henry and Javon's injuryproneness (yeah...nice word, huh?), but are drooling over Vilma who could be one in the same. Reuniting him w/ DJ sounds great, but over the long term...not a wise investment.


exactly-- let's "gamble" on some healthy guys for a change!




If Vilma is healthy, he would be a better pick up than anyone we could get with a 3rd or 4th round pick.


he's better than brandon marshall and elvis dumervil?

Retired_Member_001
02-23-2008, 05:04 PM
he's better than brandon marshall and elvis dumervil?

Let me re phrase that.

I meant that a healthy Jonathan Vilma would be better than any LINEBACKER we could get at the 3rd or 4th pick.

turftoad
02-23-2008, 05:18 PM
Let me re phrase that.

I meant that a healthy Jonathan Vilma would be better than any LINEBACKER we could get at the 3rd or 4th pick.

Where did you read or hear that the Jets would take a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.

Retired_Member_001
02-23-2008, 05:20 PM
Where did you read or hear that the Jets would take a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.

I'm assuming it.

I also hear from several Jets fans that they would be happy if they got a 4th and Foxy for him.

WARHORSE
02-24-2008, 06:42 AM
For the money not, for experience perhaps, but he has a lot of miles on those knees.

I'd rather go for youth and rebuild for next year.. Opposed to another feeble attempt at reloading for another mediocre season..


We wont two superbowls with this same formula.

Its called: SUPERBOWL OR BUST.


Forget rebuilding.

Rebuilding is for suckers.

Superbowl champs, or youre not worth the spit on a stamp to mail you home.

nevcraw
02-24-2008, 10:05 AM
Forget rebuilding.

Rebuilding is for suckers.


I'm sure Dan Snyder agrees w/ you.

For 10 years the Broncos have tried to build the team through FA and IMO neglecting the draft.. Well it hasn't worked, The've whiffed on the majority of drafts in this time and the've had marginal success through free agency.

Time to change plans. Good teams that sustain their success, build a nucleus of players from the draft and then sprinkle in the (scheme and team fitting) FA to augment the players they already have..
The only suckers are those continue to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome..

nevcraw
02-24-2008, 12:08 PM
But.. I do think Vilma could be one of those players who would fit nicely, if the price is right.. low risk, high reward..

MHCBill
02-24-2008, 01:24 PM
We still can. This team has so many needs it can't just be done through the draft. Unless we want to be in a re-building stage for 2-3 years.ummmm... we are in the rebuilding phase... we won't be competing for 2-3 years.

MHCBill
02-24-2008, 01:26 PM
We wont two superbowls with this same formula.

Its called: SUPERBOWL OR BUST.


Forget rebuilding.

Rebuilding is for suckers.

Superbowl champs, or youre not worth the spit on a stamp to mail you home.That kind of blind absurdness is what got the team into it's current mess.

Go for broke works when you're close, but when you're not close (present day) then you have to rebuild.

What sense would it make to go out and sign some high priced, underprodcutive free agents that will either be hurt or gone within two years? We won't be winning the Super Bowl in 2008 so don't waste the time, money, or developmental time for young guys by signing worthless vets.

Nice thinking War.