Week 17 Morning Aftermath: McDaniels should be on the hot seat

[broncofaninfla]

Week 17 Morning Aftermath: McDaniels should be on the hot seat

Posted by Mike Florio on January 4, 2010 1:59 AM ET
Before the 2009 season began, many league observers believed that Broncos coach Josh McDaniels had waded into a swamp several inches deeper than his height.

McDaniels shipped away a franchise quarterback, picked a fight with a gamebreaking receiver, and generally inspired little confidence with a press-conference demeanor involving more ticks and touches than a third-base coach trying to instruct the batter to swing away.

But then the games started, and McDaniels became the Broncos' boy wonder. Six wins later, it was presumed that McDaniels "gets it," and that he has what it takes to be a successful NFL head coach.

Eight losses in 10 games later, it's time to revisit that assessment, especially with receiver Brandon Marshall now destined to be shipped out of town in the offseason.

And here's the key -- with Mike Shanahan poised to return to the NFL and give up most if not all of the remaining $14 million the Broncos owe him over the next two years, owner Pat Bowled could choose to divert that money to fund the balance of McDaniels' contract over the next three seasons, with roughly $8 million to spare.

It's unlikely that Bowlen will pull the trigger. But who would have dreamed a year ago that Shanahan would get shown the door? This year, the outcome was the same, including a three-game losing streak that squandered what had once appeared to be a clear shot at the postseason.

So while the end result of McDaniels' first season still wasn't as bad as most thought it would be -- and also not nearly as horrendous as the overall performance of Eric Mangini's Browns, Raheem Morris' Buccaneers, Jim Schwartz's Lions, Jim Mora's Seahawks, Todd Haley's Chiefs, and Steve Spagnuolo's Rams -- McDaniels merits as much or more scrutiny than each of them, and even if he sticks around for another year he deserves a spot on the hot seat for 2010.

[Northman]

Yea, a franchise QB with a losing record no matter what team he is on. A receiver who is more concerned about himself and is afraid of the cold. Florio is totally off on this.

[Dirk]

You know. I am as stunned as the next person that we didn't make the playoffs.

But all in all, it was the defense that let this team down over the last 3 games. Again.

They couldn't stop JaFatty at the end of the Raider game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop McNoob at the end of the Eagles game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop the run during the entire game with the Chiefs.

The end of the season falls on the defense. Plain and simple.

Yes Orton had the INTs but the defense couldn't stop KC.....KC!

McD has done quite a job with what he had this year. And so has Nolan. Everyone is quick to throw McD under the bus but not Nolan on this collapse. Not fair at all.

Now, I was hoping for an 8-8 season and I got it. Although after the 6-0 start I thought it would be more.

Alas, we all knew going into this year that we are in REBUILDING MODE! So, we are going to have to weather out the storm and give McD some slack and hope that he learned from his first year and he is better at player relations come the next year.

We all saw how great McD can be. Inspiring, smart and desires to win as much as not more than any other coach in the league.

So I salute McD for the job he did this year and hope that next year he gets us better and it makes us a dynasty over these next 10 years.

[Northman]

You know. I am as stunned as the next person that we didn't make the playoffs.

But all in all, it was the defense that let this team down over the last 3 games. Again.

They couldn't stop JaFatty at the end of the Raider game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop McNoob at the end of the Eagles game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop the run during the entire game with the Chiefs.

The end of the season falls on the defense. Plain and simple.

Yes Orton had the INTs but the defense couldn't stop KC.....KC!

McD has done quite a job with what he had this year. And so has Nolan. Everyone is quick to throw McD under the bus but not Nolan on this collapse. Not fair at all.

Now, I was hoping for an 8-8 season and I got it. Although after the 6-0 start I thought it would be more.

Alas, we all knew going into this year that we are in REBUILDING MODE! So, we are going to have to weather out the storm and give McD some slack and hope that he learned from his first year and he is better at player relations come the next year.

We all saw how great McD can be. Inspiring, smart and desires to win as much as not more than any other coach in the league.

So I salute McD for the job he did this year and hope that next year he gets us better and it makes us a dynasty over these next 10 years.


Excellent point about the defense. These are some stats for the total year.

Offense:
326 points scored
Average of 120 yds a game
36% on 3rd down
93 penalties for 800 yards
4.2 ypc
13 INTs , 10 fumbles lost

Defense:
324 points allowed
Average of 80 yds a game
37% on 3rd down stops
17 INTs , 13 FR

But, after the 6-0 start look what happens especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Offense:
193 total points scored
104 rushing yards a game for 4.1 ypc
33% 3rd down conversion rate
61 penalties for 537 yards
12 interceptions
6 fumbles lost

Defense:
258 points allowed
158 rushing yards per game allowed for 5.0 ypc
43% 3rd down conversion rate
11 interceptions
7 fumbles recovered

[Dirk]

The main concerns are still O-Line and D-line IMO.

We must be able to run the ball, and we must be able to stop the run. It all starts and ends on the lines. Period.

Orton gets another year IMO. He played quite well this year considering we really didn't have a running game. How many times did our running game get stuffed on short yardage for a first or at the goal line?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

One quick thing to point out about rebuilding... Bowlen didn't bring McDaniels in here to "rebuild" this team. He brought him here to fix the defense and win.

He fired a Superbowl winning coach for 8-8. I can pretty much guarantee you that this was not in Bowlen's plan. Maybe he/McD aren't really on the same page, but there isn't a "grace period" for McDaniels here. No, I don't think Bowlen would can him after one year, but this isn't on-the-job-training.

He was paid to come in and get us over the hump. Yes, in his first year.

[Nomad]

McDaniels and hot seat in the same sentence...ridiculous!!

[Northman]

One quick thing to point out about rebuilding... Bowlen didn't bring McDaniels in here to "rebuild" this team. He brought him here to fix the defense and win.

He fired a Superbowl winning coach for 8-8. I can pretty much guarantee you that this was not in Bowlen's plan. Maybe he/McD aren't really on the same page, but there isn't a "grace period" for McDaniels here. No, I don't think Bowlen would can him after one year, but this isn't on-the-job-training.

He was paid to come in and get us over the hump. Yes, in his first year.


Be that as it may i would think that Bowlen is also smart enough to understand that with the changes that McD has/had to make that he does have a window albeit a short one.

[Nomad]

Be that as it may i would think that Bowlen is also smart enough to understand that with the changes that McD has/had to make that he does have a window albeit a short one.

He'll give him a chance to build his team and get rid of the headaches of the team, but I'm sure he's on a short leash. It's just the way the NFL is run nowadays!! Especially since the team did better than expected this year!!;)

[gobroncsnv]

Well if we start being on the coaching carousel every year, we'll be no better than the Cardinals (of old), Lions, and all those other teams that had no continuity, and everybody wondered why they have no traction. Turn your eyes towards Pittsburgh to see what a franchise should look like.

[SoCalImport]

He was paid to come in and get us over the hump. Yes, in his first year.

Hmm.. I'm pretty sure that statement was never made. It's a bit of an absurd assumption as well.

McDaniels (imho) was hired to change the culture of mediocrity in Denver (mixed reviews on how he's done in his first year). It was NEVER intended to be a one year turn around, and I believe that (barring a step backwards next season) McD will be given at least a couple more years to get the Broncos moving in the right direction.

[Elevation inc]

i really dont have a problem with MCD being on the hot seat, i like the guy....but he is also the coach....mike shanahan was held responsible so should josh MCd....only reason shanny lasted so long was becasue he was a trusted friend and brought us back to back SB wins.....Bowlen has no allegiance in that form to MCd.....MCd needs to show marked improvement as a coach, talent evlautor, playcaller, leader etc....the guy has a chnace to be good but he def needs to learn from his errors this year...

and spin it how you want folks there were some made by him in a big way.....

[gobroncsnv]

By no means does a coach ever escape responsibility, but many agree that we saw a lot of steps in the right direction with Josh. He's got a lot to learn, but I think he will do his self evaluation, along with that for the team. I believe he will learn from his mistakes, and build on his successes.

[lameduck33]

if mcd is wanting to have all yes sir men on this team it will take longer than what he has left on his contract to get them here...if the coach does not have the ability to teach and bring unity to diverse players its on the coach for not being able to adapt.

[CoachChaz]

I think fans are looking for a scapegoat more than the coach is. This is the same coach that called himself out after the Oakland game for his own play-calling. He has also called out the o-line, the QB and as soon as he calls out his prima donna WR...the shit hits the fan. Go figure.

Seems to me that McD has blamed himself along with the players in this situation and what happens this off-season will go a long way towards determining what he and the team have learned. but if you REALLY want to lose the players on this team and create locker room issues...go ahead and fire Josh after just one year. Then watch it burn.

[broncofaninfla]

You know. I am as stunned as the next person that we didn't make the playoffs.

But all in all, it was the defense that let this team down over the last 3 games. Again.

They couldn't stop JaFatty at the end of the Raider game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop McNoob at the end of the Eagles game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop the run during the entire game with the Chiefs.

The end of the season falls on the defense. Plain and simple.

Yes Orton had the INTs but the defense couldn't stop KC.....KC!

McD has done quite a job with what he had this year. And so has Nolan. Everyone is quick to throw McD under the bus but not Nolan on this collapse. Not fair at all.

Now, I was hoping for an 8-8 season and I got it. Although after the 6-0 start I thought it would be more.

Alas, we all knew going into this year that we are in REBUILDING MODE! So, we are going to have to weather out the storm and give McD some slack and hope that he learned from his first year and he is better at player relations come the next year.

We all saw how great McD can be. Inspiring, smart and desires to win as much as not more than any other coach in the league.

So I salute McD for the job he did this year and hope that next year he gets us better and it makes us a dynasty over these next 10 years.

It would have been nice to field even a half ass offense this season but we didn't. The defense was asked to do too much and slowly wore down as the season progressed.

Are we a better team now than we were a year ago? IMO no and the future isn't looking good. Our "me first" coach keeps labling Shanny's guys as "me first" players and yelling accountbility while never taking accountibility for his own putrid playcalling.

[CoachChaz]

It would have been nice to field even a half ass offense this season but we didn't. The defense was asked to do too much and slowly wore down as the season progressed.

Are we a better team now than we were a year ago? IMO no and the future isn't looking good. Our "me first" coach keeps labling Shanny's guys as "me first" players and yelling accountbility while never taking accountibility for his own putrid playcalling.

I guess we missed where he called out himself for the play-calling in the Oakland game.

As far as Shanny's players being "me first" guys. Am I crazy or have Cutler and Marshall not proven that to be true?

[Shazam!]

One quick thing to point out about rebuilding... Bowlen didn't bring McDaniels in here to "rebuild" this team. He brought him here to fix the defense and win.

He fired a Superbowl winning coach for 8-8. I can pretty much guarantee you that this was not in Bowlen's plan. Maybe he/McD aren't really on the same page, but there isn't a "grace period" for McDaniels here. No, I don't think Bowlen would can him after one year, but this isn't on-the-job-training.

He was paid to come in and get us over the hump. Yes, in his first year.

Pat Bowlen was thrilled, quote, thrilled that Mike Shanahan got the Broncos to 8-8 in his first Season way back in 1995. If you think Bowlen expected the AFC Championship Game this year you're lying to yourself.

Shanahan simply could not continue to get an unlimited free pass based on success he had here 10 years ago with a totally different core of veteran players led by a HoF QB.

Is it disappointing? Of course. Is it the wrong kind of 8-8, sliding into it late after a fast start? Yes. But if you think Bowlen thought this wasn't a rebuilding year, you're kidding yourself. He knows it's a process, evaluating the roster and making wholesale roster changes are going to take time.

Now if the Broncos aren't better in some key areas, show progress or finish worse, I'll be there calling for a new Head Coach too. I promise you that.

[claymore]

Pat Bowlen was thrilled, quote, thrilled that Mike Shanahan got the Broncos to 8-8 in his first Season way back in 1995. If you think Bowlen expected the AFC Championship Game this year you're lying to yourself.

Shanahan simply could not continue to get an unlimited free pass based on success he had here 10 years ago with a totally different core of veteran players led by a HoF QB.

Is it disappointing? Of course. Is it the wrong kind of 8-8, sliding into it late after a fast start? Yes. But if you think Bowlen thought this wasn't a rebuilding year, you're kidding yourself. He knows it's a process, evaluating the roster and making wholesale roster changes are going to take time.

Now if the Broncos aren't better in some key areas, show progress or finish worse, I'll be there calling for a new Head Coach too. I promise you that.
If you think Bowlen isnt waiting to see what Shanahan does before completley weighing his options than you are kidding yourself. JMCD didnt have near the season he (Bowlen) had hoped for.

And its not all about the win loss columm. JMCD has done some pretty weird things.

[Shazam!]

If you think Bowlen isnt waiting to see what Shanahan does before completley weighing his options than you are kidding yourself. JMCD didnt have near the season he (Bowlen) had hoped for.

And its not all about the win loss columm. JMCD has done some pretty weird things.

So, you're thinking he's gonna be fired?

Who's kidding who here?

[claymore]

So, you're thinking he's gonna be fired?

Who's kidding who here?

I think it depends on what Shanahan does morso than how Bowlen thinks of JMCD.

If that money gets freed up it gives Bowlen some options. If you were the owner of a billion dollar team, would you want a young emotional coach that hasnt proven anything, cant handle the media, and cannot get along with the players, or would you want a guy like Cowher, who is a proven SB winning coach, that would instantly bring the locker room and the fan base back together?

Not saying thats what would happen... But its a logical alternative.

[Dirk]

I think it depends on what Shanahan does morso than how Bowlen thinks of JMCD.

If that money gets freed up it gives Bowlen some options. If you were the owner of a billion dollar team, would you want a young emotional coach that hasnt proven anything, cant handle the media, and cannot get along with the players, or would you want a guy like Cowher, who is a proven SB winning coach, that would instantly bring the locker room and the fan base back together?

Not saying thats what would happen... But its a logical alternative.

I don't have a crystal ball, but that's never going to happen IMO.

[claymore]

I don't have a crystal ball, but that's never going to happen IMO.

None of us do. My only point is that Pat Bowlen CEO is going to base his decision off of money.

And he cannot do so until he knows for sure what Shanny is going to do.

If he thinks he can make more money with another coach, that is the direction he will take.

[Shazam!]

I know the thought of McD getting fired makes you hard Clay, but it's not going to happen, even with Shanahan coming out.

[Medford Bronco]

I know the thought of McD getting fired makes you hard Clay, but it's not going to happen, even with Shanahan coming out.

Even if it did happen, Cutler is not coming back so its time to move on IMHO.

both teams lost out. Yes at times this year I thought of what Cutler could have done, its only naturel. but like 2009 its over now for me. I just want Denver back to its late 90s teams.

That team ran the ball and had a HOF QB, so we are a long way off now.

[claymore]

I know the thought of McD getting fired makes you hard Clay, but it's not going to happen, even with Shanahan coming out.
McD getting fired would make me incredibly happy. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Bowlen will weigh his options.

[Dirk]

I think Bowlen will keep McD at least for another year.

You don't fire your HOF headcoach to go 1 and done with his replacement.

[broncofaninfla]

The thought of one more year of Mcd scares the hell out of me. I know it won't happen but I would LOVE to see us hire Cower.

[claymore]

I think Bowlen will keep McD at least for another year.

You don't fire your HOF headcoach to go 1 and done with his replacement.

You didnt fire him to purge the roster of the handful of good players. Its more than giving Josh another chance.

If Im Bowlen, do I like this past draft, do I like the fact Cutler is gone, and do I want to lose Marshall, Hillis, Sheff and possibly Doom?

If I do lose Marshall, That gives me 2 x #1 picks again.... Do I want JMCD bringing in his guys, If I have no confidence he will be here in a couple of years?

Bowlen has an investment in JMCD, but he is a business man, that ight not be willing to sink more into the investment when it hasnt shown much of any promise.

Not to mention the fanbase is divided, morso than I have ever seen it. The Plummer benching kinda looks like a minor event in comparison to all the controversey over the last year.

[Superchop 7]

I am trying to find the Forbes article....

Point is.....

The value of a franchise correlates to a number of things. (Think Parcells adding 100 mil just by walking in the door to a franchise)

We lost ground when Shanny and Jay left......period.

We would gain ground with Cowher.

And wins.

[Superchop 7]

What has McDaniels done ?

1) Alienate a fan base

2) Dismantle a great offense.

3) Treat players (Shanny's) like red-headed step children.

4) Lose every divisional game at HOME.

5) Lose 8 out of his last 10

6) Turn a franchise into a soap opera.

7) Lose ground with poor drafting.

Should he be on the hot seat.......your damn right he should be on the hot seat.

[claymore]

I am trying to find the Forbes article....

Point is.....

The value of a franchise correlates to a number of things. (Think Parcells adding 100 mil just by walking in the door to a franchise)

We lost ground when Shanny and Jay left......period.

We would gain ground with Cowher.

And wins.

Same reason I said we would draft Moreno. Sales, money... Excitement, and intrest of the fans.

Marshal will be gone, and I think all the Royal, Moreno, and Clady jersey's that will get bought have been bought.

If Cowher isnt brought in I dont see anyone else. But like you said there is a monatary value placed on this decision.

If the McRib isnt making Money, you invent the Big N tasty.

[arapaho2]

in fact he should be warned that the boss isnt happy and his job may be in jeopordy...even if it isnt

MCD came here with a belichek cloned attitude...he was holier then thou...he scoffed at mike shannahans red zone offense, ridiculed its ineffiencys and swore to improve it.

his first act in free agency was to release leach...who was under contract, never missed a snap..ever, and was fairly cheap...and bring in his boy from NE for a enourmous amount of $ is he better then leach?...no was it needed? no..but he wanted his mark and as many NE players as he could get

then he screws up a team with a pro bowl qb...you may not like cutler...but his season with the bears wont be a model of his career...but there is no doubt he is better then orton even with the ints...he plays on a suck ass offense, with no wrs..a horrible playcaller and horrid oline

the deffense holding teams virtually scoreless in the second half..they held teams to 10 points and a few 3rd down conversions in the first six games..thats amazing..

thats why we were 6-0..not because josh was a briliant young coach

but the the wheels fell off...and it started with the ravens loss. before that game it was a small concern about the dink and dunk never go deep offesne...after that game the ravens smirked that it was easy to beat us..we never go deep, we dont challange the whole field and it was just a matter of playing short allow orton the close underneath stuff, stop it short and the offense became predictable...guess what...it was

it was a defensive stratagy followed by nearly every team..and we became our own worst enemy...with a coach unwilling to, change his philosophy. every week it was the same think...pre game during the game...the commentaters, experts all said...if we dont open up the field we are playing short ball in a stacked field..very hard ..we must spread the field out to keep the defense honest..we didnt

we have talented players like scheff, royal. hillis, stokely almost written out of the playbook...instead we stick with gaffney and jordon over better players

we have hillis who proved last year he could get the tuff yards..he proved a weapon out of the backfield and he's reduced to special teams...instead we stick with a rookie back who never could crack a hundred...all season, not one 100 yard game...lamont "im over the hill" jordon gets more carries then hillis

we have the #2 overall offense, #16 scoreing team..11# rush offense, #3 passing offense...

reduced to ..15th overall, #20th in scoreing....#18th in rushing and 13th in passing

then we got worse in redzone production, worse in 3rd down conversions, worse in 4th down conversion

so was reducing our offensive turnovers by 7 total worth dropping so drasticcaly in every other offensive stat?...ask me id rather have the extra turnovers with the 08 numbers

He then throws the entire oline under the bus, blaming them for the poor offense?...HEY JOSH YOU THINK MAYBE ITS BECAUSE THEY WERE DRAFTED/SIGNED AND ASSEMBLED TO RUN A ZBS...AND NOT A POWER SCHEME...MAYBE ITS BECAUSE YOU TRADED A ELUSIVE MOBILE QB FOR A STATUE..MAYBE?..A LITTLE?

and if any one thinks were gonna be just as good with gaffney over marshall? your an idiot....mcd took that game and made a mockery of it....he took it as a challange to prove he can win without marshall and scheff....scheffs complaints were about the short passing game...mcd went in to prove he could do it...guess what orton cant

where were the bubble screens we seen every other week 10 times a game? sure orton again fixated on gaffeny...was that because he was the only one open...OR BECAUSE HE AND MCD WERE MORE CONCERNED WITH BREAKING MARSHALLS RECORD INSTEAD OF WINNING



NO THIS SEASON FALLS DIRECTLY ON MCD

[Dirk]

Wow. All I can say is wow.


It was one year. If the O-line could have made holes for Moreno and Bucky moreso than they did (which was terrible), there would have been more wins.

If the Defense hadn't allowed those last moment touchdowns by Oak and Philly they would be in the playoffs.

I know it hurts to not be in the playoffs but they were close. Real close.

I will give McD a chance to fix the O and D lines this offseason before I can condemn him completely. Those were the very glaring issues this season. If he does not address them, I will be right there with you.

But I will not give up on him simply because he made rookie headcoach mistakes and taking us to 8-8 with the team he had.

[NightTrainLayne]

You didnt fire him to purge the roster of the handful of good players. Its more than giving Josh another chance.

If Im Bowlen, do I like this past draft, do I like the fact Cutler is gone, and do I want to lose Marshall, Hillis, Sheff and possibly Doom?

If I do lose Marshall, That gives me 2 x #1 picks again.... Do I want JMCD bringing in his guys, If I have no confidence he will be here in a couple of years?

Bowlen has an investment in JMCD, but he is a business man, that ight not be willing to sink more into the investment when it hasnt shown much of any promise.

Not to mention the fanbase is divided, morso than I have ever seen it. The Plummer benching kinda looks like a minor event in comparison to all the controversey over the last year.

This whole idea that McD's only intent was to purge the roster of the "handful" of talented guys we had just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

For how many years have we collectively complained about the slew of me-first, questionable character guys that Shanny brought in here? The last 5-6 years were an almost endless parade of head-scratchers with one or two each season. Travis Henry, Maurice Clarett, Simeon Rice just to name three.

Does anyone else besides me ever question whether or not maybe the guy who brought those "winners" in allowed a me-first culture to develop?

I was a big supporter of Shanahan. I posted a year ago at this time, after that embarrasing loss to San Diego that I still wanted Shanahan to finish what he started when he started building around Cutler. I stated that the decision to keep Slowik was absurd, and to me was the first crack in Shanny's foundation, but that he needed at least another year. .. and then Bowlen pulled the rug out, which is certainly a defensible position as well.

Now, watching how some of these guys handled this season. Most notably Marshall and his antics, and I really have to start questioning exactly what kind of culture this locker-room had when McD first walked into it.

McD's only had one year to do anything, which isn't any time at all in the NFL when you're managing a 53 man roster. With another year to work on it, and get some more of his pieces together, I predict good things for our future.

It sucks to have to come to grips with the fact that we hadn't really been cheering for a "team" over the past few years, but a conglomeration of players, but that kind of appears to be the case, and is a pretty darn good explanation for the team packing it in when the playoff race got tight each of the last four years.

It also sucks that McD couldn't overcome that this season, but it would also appear that the organization was in worse shape than most of us realized.

I have to go back to some posts I made back in May about the book "A Few Seconds of Panic". Here's the link: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15458

That book really shed a lot of light for me on the inner workings and psyche of the organization. It wasn't intended as a book about the Broncos, but more about being a player in the NFL, so it won't answer all of our questions, but I credit that book with completely changing my own thinking on Shanahan the past few years. He simply didn't have control of that locker room, or really the respect of the players.

Everybody's welcome to their own opinion, and none of us have been or are inside the organzation, so it all boils down to speculation. But my speculation, is that this team was coming apart at the seams when Bowlen pulled the trigger. . .and yes, he probably should have done it quicker. McD had a huge job in front of him, and I think he got it about half-accomplished this season.

We're on the right track, and McD looks to me to be the guy to make the change. Could someone else do it? Probably, but it would appear they'd get pilloried too.

[weazel]

oh the drama!!!

what makes any of you think that Cowher would want to be here?

[arapaho2]

Wow. All I can say is wow.


It was one year. If the O-line could have made holes for Moreno and Bucky moreso than they did (which was terrible), there would have been more wins.

If the Defense hadn't allowed those last moment touchdowns by Oak and Philly they would be in the playoffs.

I know it hurts to not be in the playoffs but they were close. Real close.

I will give McD a chance to fix the O and D lines this offseason before I can condemn him completely. Those were the very glaring issues this season. If he does not address them, I will be right there with you.

But I will not give up on him simply because he made rookie headcoach mistakes and taking us to 8-8 with the team he had.

Or maybe the coach coulda fIgured out...clady, hamilton,kuper and polumbus were drafted to run the zone blocking scheme...weigman was brought here to run the ZBS...if your entire oline is drafted and suited for the ZBS and you have your same rb coach and oline coach who runs the "ZBS"...it doesnt take a rocket scientist to stay with THE "ZBS"

or maybe the coach should have given the ball to a powerhouse back named hillis?

as for the defnese...maybe if the offense didnt have so dam many 3 n outs in the raider and philly games...the indy game two...maybe if the offense woulda ran the clock out in the philly and raider game...we wouldnt have had to rely on a wore out defense to stop them

as for fixing the dline...dude had a chance at brian orakpo..theres a fix...dude coulda moved up for the prize NT...didnt

[weazel]

Or maybe the coach coulda fIgured out...clady, hamilton,kuper and polumbus were drafted to run the zone blocking scheme...weigman was brought here to run the ZBS...if your entire oline is drafted and suited for the ZBS and you have your same rb coach and oline coach who runs the "ZBS"...it doesnt take a rocket scientist to stay with THE "ZBS"

or maybe the coach should have given the ball to a powerhouse back named hillis?

as for the defnese...maybe if the offense didnt have so dam many 3 n outs in the raider and philly games...the indy game two...maybe if the offense woulda ran the clock out in the philly and raider game...we wouldnt have had to rely on a wore out defense to stop them

as for fixing the dline...dude had a chance at brian orakpo..theres a fix...dude coulda moved up for the prize NT...didnt

you're kidding, right?

wtf did Hillis do when he was put in there? the only time he did anything was when he was put in at the end of the KC game after we already ran for 250 yds. He picked on a team that had already given up on the game and were just letting the clock run out. Hillis is not any better than Tatum Bell.

[roomemp]

Or maybe the coach coulda fIgured out...clady, hamilton,kuper and polumbus were drafted to run the zone blocking scheme...weigman was brought here to run the ZBS...if your entire oline is drafted and suited for the ZBS and you have your same rb coach and oline coach who runs the "ZBS"...it doesnt take a rocket scientist to stay with THE "ZBS"

or maybe the coach should have given the ball to a powerhouse back named hillis?

as for the defnese...maybe if the offense didnt have so dam many 3 n outs in the raider and philly games...the indy game two...maybe if the offense woulda ran the clock out in the philly and raider game...we wouldnt have had to rely on a wore out defense to stop them

as for fixing the dline...dude had a chance at brian orakpo..theres a fix...dude coulda moved up for the prize NT...didnt

ZB'ing is great betwen the 20's but it stinks in the redzone.


Pwerhouse back named Hillis??????????????? The dude has less than 400 rushing yards in the NFL and you are talking like he is F'in Jim Brown

As for you drafting suggestions....Drafting is a crap shoot. Its always easy to look back and say," WOW how could we of not selected that guy.....Look at his production"

[CoachChaz]

Or maybe the coach coulda fIgured out...clady, hamilton,kuper and polumbus were drafted to run the zone blocking scheme...weigman was brought here to run the ZBS...if your entire oline is drafted and suited for the ZBS and you have your same rb coach and oline coach who runs the "ZBS"...it doesnt take a rocket scientist to stay with THE "ZBS"

or maybe the coach should have given the ball to a powerhouse back named hillis?

as for the defnese...maybe if the offense didnt have so dam many 3 n outs in the raider and philly games...the indy game two...maybe if the offense woulda ran the clock out in the philly and raider game...we wouldnt have had to rely on a wore out defense to stop them

as for fixing the dline...dude had a chance at brian orakpo..theres a fix...dude coulda moved up for the prize NT...didnt

Clady and Kuper were drafted because they CAN run in the ZBS. They can also block straight ahead too. Amazing concept.

But at the end of the day, I think you should be our new personnel guy. You seem to have this all figured out.

[arapaho2]

ZB'ing is great betwen the 20's but it stinks in the redzone.


Pwerhouse back named Hillis??????????????? The dude has less than 400 rushing yards in the NFL and you are talking like he is F'in Jim Brown

As for you drafting suggestions....Drafting is a crap shoot. Its always easy to look back and say," WOW how could we of not selected that guy.....Look at his production"


apparently this PBs suckes between the 20s and based on rushing tds 09-08 sucks just the same in the redzone

dont hate on hillis cause im right...who said anything about being jim brown? exxaggerate much?...hillis came on as a rookie fb thrust into the starting tailback spot
had 68 rushes averaged 5.0 yards per carry...and in his 4 starts before tearing a hammy had 5 rushing tds

moreno only average 3.8 ypc played in every game..9 starts, predominate back in 12 games...7 tds

[arapaho2]

Clady and Kuper were drafted because they CAN run in the ZBS. They can also block straight ahead too. Amazing concept.

But at the end of the day, I think you should be our new personnel guy. You seem to have this all figured out.


i should be.... in the end its a fool who believes that dropping from 11th in rushing with undrafted and over the hill rbs..where we lose 6 to IR to ......... 18th with a 12th overall 1st rnd pick, buckhalter who is better then any body we had last year....is because the line is suddenly sucky..and that them being drafted for the zbs forced to run a new scheme has nothing to do with it?

i guess it would be the same fools who believe this oline which only gave up 12 sacks all season in 08 just got sucky cause they gave up 34 this season:coffee:..right...new coach, new offense...new immobile qb had nothing to do with it

[CoachChaz]

i should be.... in the end its a fool who believes that dropping from 11th in rushing with undrafted and over the hill rbs..where we lose 6 to IR to ......... 18th with a 12th overall 1st rnd pick, buckhalter who is better then any body we had last year....is because the line is suddenly sucky..and that them being drafted for the zbs forced to run a new scheme has nothing to do with it?

i guess it would be the same fools who believe this oline which only gave up 12 sacks all season in 08 just got sucky cause they gave up 34 this season:coffee:..right...new coach, new offense...new immobile qb had nothing to do with it

I think alot of the difference lies within the need. Last year, when we were behind...we were WAY behind. In those games, we had to pass, which allowed us to run more. This year, the games have been close and we could utilize both areas of our offense.

Unfortunately, the line chose differently. Seriously...do you really believe that the line played poorly because we had a more dynamic RB and because they were asked to run a more basic blocking scheme?

[lameduck33]

accountability, when marshall told moreno hold onto the ball, yet it seemed to me mcd didnt every take the ball from that guy, yet hillis has a fumble and gets scratched for the season! all the drops by recievers yesterday by your new number one reciever going into next year! was he held accountable, yeah right!

[claymore]

This whole idea that McD's only intent was to purge the roster of the "handful" of talented guys we had just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

For how many years have we collectively complained about the slew of me-first, questionable character guys that Shanny brought in here? The last 5-6 years were an almost endless parade of head-scratchers with one or two each season. Travis Henry, Maurice Clarett, Simeon Rice just to name three.

Does anyone else besides me ever question whether or not maybe the guy who brought those "winners" in allowed a me-first culture to develop?

I was a big supporter of Shanahan. I posted a year ago at this time, after that embarrasing loss to San Diego that I still wanted Shanahan to finish what he started when he started building around Cutler. I stated that the decision to keep Slowik was absurd, and to me was the first crack in Shanny's foundation, but that he needed at least another year. .. and then Bowlen pulled the rug out, which is certainly a defensible position as well.

Now, watching how some of these guys handled this season. Most notably Marshall and his antics, and I really have to start questioning exactly what kind of culture this locker-room had when McD first walked into it.

McD's only had one year to do anything, which isn't any time at all in the NFL when you're managing a 53 man roster. With another year to work on it, and get some more of his pieces together, I predict good things for our future.

It sucks to have to come to grips with the fact that we hadn't really been cheering for a "team" over the past few years, but a conglomeration of players, but that kind of appears to be the case, and is a pretty darn good explanation for the team packing it in when the playoff race got tight each of the last four years.

It also sucks that McD couldn't overcome that this season, but it would also appear that the organization was in worse shape than most of us realized.

I have to go back to some posts I made back in May about the book "A Few Seconds of Panic". Here's the link: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15458

That book really shed a lot of light for me on the inner workings and psyche of the organization. It wasn't intended as a book about the Broncos, but more about being a player in the NFL, so it won't answer all of our questions, but I credit that book with completely changing my own thinking on Shanahan the past few years. He simply didn't have control of that locker room, or really the respect of the players.

Everybody's welcome to their own opinion, and none of us have been or are inside the organzation, so it all boils down to speculation. But my speculation, is that this team was coming apart at the seams when Bowlen pulled the trigger. . .and yes, he probably should have done it quicker. McD had a huge job in front of him, and I think he got it about half-accomplished this season.

We're on the right track, and McD looks to me to be the guy to make the change. Could someone else do it? Probably, but it would appear they'd get pilloried too.
What do you see that tells you we are on the right track?

[CoachChaz]

accountability, when marshall told moreno hold onto the ball, yet it seemed to me mcd didnt every take the ball from that guy, yet hillis has a fumble and gets scratched for the season! all the drops by recievers yesterday by your new number one reciever going into next year! was he held accountable, yeah right!

Kind of hard to do that when they are all on their way home.





But I agree. Hillis should have started over Moreno from day one. He's obviously more dynamic and much more skilled. LOL

[broncofaninfla]

What has McDaniels done ?

1) Alienate a fan base

2) Dismantle a great offense.

3) Treat players (Shanny's) like red-headed step children.

4) Lose every divisional game at HOME.

5) Lose 8 out of his last 10

6) Turn a franchise into a soap opera.

7) Lose ground with poor drafting.

Should he be on the hot seat.......your damn right he should be on the hot seat.

This! :beer:

[broncofaninfla]

in fact he should be warned that the boss isnt happy and his job may be in jeopordy...even if it isnt

MCD came here with a belichek cloned attitude...he was holier then thou...he scoffed at mike shannahans red zone offense, ridiculed its ineffiencys and swore to improve it.

his first act in free agency was to release leach...who was under contract, never missed a snap..ever, and was fairly cheap...and bring in his boy from NE for a enourmous amount of $ is he better then leach?...no was it needed? no..but he wanted his mark and as many NE players as he could get

then he screws up a team with a pro bowl qb...you may not like cutler...but his season with the bears wont be a model of his career...but there is no doubt he is better then orton even with the ints...he plays on a suck ass offense, with no wrs..a horrible playcaller and horrid oline

the deffense holding teams virtually scoreless in the second half..they held teams to 10 points and a few 3rd down conversions in the first six games..thats amazing..

thats why we were 6-0..not because josh was a briliant young coach

but the the wheels fell off...and it started with the ravens loss. before that game it was a small concern about the dink and dunk never go deep offesne...after that game the ravens smirked that it was easy to beat us..we never go deep, we dont challange the whole field and it was just a matter of playing short allow orton the close underneath stuff, stop it short and the offense became predictable...guess what...it was

it was a defensive stratagy followed by nearly every team..and we became our own worst enemy...with a coach unwilling to, change his philosophy. every week it was the same think...pre game during the game...the commentaters, experts all said...if we dont open up the field we are playing short ball in a stacked field..very hard ..we must spread the field out to keep the defense honest..we didnt

we have talented players like scheff, royal. hillis, stokely almost written out of the playbook...instead we stick with gaffney and jordon over better players

we have hillis who proved last year he could get the tuff yards..he proved a weapon out of the backfield and he's reduced to special teams...instead we stick with a rookie back who never could crack a hundred...all season, not one 100 yard game...lamont "im over the hill" jordon gets more carries then hillis

we have the #2 overall offense, #16 scoreing team..11# rush offense, #3 passing offense...

reduced to ..15th overall, #20th in scoreing....#18th in rushing and 13th in passing

then we got worse in redzone production, worse in 3rd down conversions, worse in 4th down conversion

so was reducing our offensive turnovers by 7 total worth dropping so drasticcaly in every other offensive stat?...ask me id rather have the extra turnovers with the 08 numbers

He then throws the entire oline under the bus, blaming them for the poor offense?...HEY JOSH YOU THINK MAYBE ITS BECAUSE THEY WERE DRAFTED/SIGNED AND ASSEMBLED TO RUN A ZBS...AND NOT A POWER SCHEME...MAYBE ITS BECAUSE YOU TRADED A ELUSIVE MOBILE QB FOR A STATUE..MAYBE?..A LITTLE?

and if any one thinks were gonna be just as good with gaffney over marshall? your an idiot....mcd took that game and made a mockery of it....he took it as a challange to prove he can win without marshall and scheff....scheffs complaints were about the short passing game...mcd went in to prove he could do it...guess what orton cant

where were the bubble screens we seen every other week 10 times a game? sure orton again fixated on gaffeny...was that because he was the only one open...OR BECAUSE HE AND MCD WERE MORE CONCERNED WITH BREAKING MARSHALLS RECORD INSTEAD OF WINNING



NO THIS SEASON FALLS DIRECTLY ON MCD

And this! :beer:

[CoachChaz]

If McDaniels has alienated the Broncos fan base, then why are so many negative nancy's still logged on here and bitching?

[topscribe]

This whole idea that McD's only intent was to purge the roster of the "handful" of talented guys we had just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

For how many years have we collectively complained about the slew of me-first, questionable character guys that Shanny brought in here? The last 5-6 years were an almost endless parade of head-scratchers with one or two each season. Travis Henry, Maurice Clarett, Simeon Rice just to name three.

Does anyone else besides me ever question whether or not maybe the guy who brought those "winners" in allowed a me-first culture to develop?

I was a big supporter of Shanahan. I posted a year ago at this time, after that embarrasing loss to San Diego that I still wanted Shanahan to finish what he started when he started building around Cutler. I stated that the decision to keep Slowik was absurd, and to me was the first crack in Shanny's foundation, but that he needed at least another year. .. and then Bowlen pulled the rug out, which is certainly a defensible position as well.

Now, watching how some of these guys handled this season. Most notably Marshall and his antics, and I really have to start questioning exactly what kind of culture this locker-room had when McD first walked into it.

McD's only had one year to do anything, which isn't any time at all in the NFL when you're managing a 53 man roster. With another year to work on it, and get some more of his pieces together, I predict good things for our future.

It sucks to have to come to grips with the fact that we hadn't really been cheering for a "team" over the past few years, but a conglomeration of players, but that kind of appears to be the case, and is a pretty darn good explanation for the team packing it in when the playoff race got tight each of the last four years.

It also sucks that McD couldn't overcome that this season, but it would also appear that the organization was in worse shape than most of us realized.

I have to go back to some posts I made back in May about the book "A Few Seconds of Panic". Here's the link: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15458

That book really shed a lot of light for me on the inner workings and psyche of the organization. It wasn't intended as a book about the Broncos, but more about being a player in the NFL, so it won't answer all of our questions, but I credit that book with completely changing my own thinking on Shanahan the past few years. He simply didn't have control of that locker room, or really the respect of the players.

Everybody's welcome to their own opinion, and none of us have been or are inside the organzation, so it all boils down to speculation. But my speculation, is that this team was coming apart at the seams when Bowlen pulled the trigger. . .and yes, he probably should have done it quicker. McD had a huge job in front of him, and I think he got it about half-accomplished this season.

We're on the right track, and McD looks to me to be the guy to make the change. Could someone else do it? Probably, but it would appear they'd get pilloried too.

This. :beer:

-----

[topscribe]

You know. I am as stunned as the next person that we didn't make the playoffs.

But all in all, it was the defense that let this team down over the last 3 games. Again.

They couldn't stop JaFatty at the end of the Raider game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop McNoob at the end of the Eagles game when we had the lead.

They couldn't stop the run during the entire game with the Chiefs.

The end of the season falls on the defense. Plain and simple.

Yes Orton had the INTs but the defense couldn't stop KC.....KC!

McD has done quite a job with what he had this year. And so has Nolan. Everyone is quick to throw McD under the bus but not Nolan on this collapse. Not fair at all.

Now, I was hoping for an 8-8 season and I got it. Although after the 6-0 start I thought it would be more.

Alas, we all knew going into this year that we are in REBUILDING MODE! So, we are going to have to weather out the storm and give McD some slack and hope that he learned from his first year and he is better at player relations come the next year.

We all saw how great McD can be. Inspiring, smart and desires to win as much as not more than any other coach in the league.

So I salute McD for the job he did this year and hope that next year he gets us better and it makes us a dynasty over these next 10 years.

And this. :beer:

-----

[broncofaninfla]

If McDaniels has alienated the Broncos fan base, then why are so many negative nancy's still logged on here and bitching?

Because we are Broncos fans and we want better for our franchise. Thinks this hasn't affected the fan base? Look how many no shows there were for the KC game yesterday. There are a lot of fans that don't like the direction this franchise is headed and I'm one of them.

[topscribe]

Because we are Broncos fans and we want better for our franchise. Thinks this hasn't affected the fan base? Look how many no shows there were for the KC game yesterday. There are a lot of fans that don't like the direction this franchise is headed and I'm one of them.

If Winston Churchill had worried about what the people thought, Britain would have lost the war . . .

-----

[dogfish]

when i agree with mike florio on anything related to football, somebody please remind me to shoot myself. . .


anyone who thinks a first-time head coach should be on the hot seat after ONE season should take a look at how well the coaching carousel has worked out over the years in places like oakland, detroit, washington, cleveland, and arizona before the last two years. . . teams like indy and pitt benefit tremendously from continuity and having established schemes in place-- you keep changing coaches, keep changing systems, and then you have to keep cycling through players because the guys you just signed or drafted don't fit what you want to do anymore-- you also risk stunting the development of your young talent if you ask them to learn a new scheme every year. . .

thankfully, bowlen doesn't run his organization that way. . . mcdaniels will be given a FAIR chance to build up this franchise, and the people who don't like it can cry about it if it makes them feel better. . . won't change anything. . .

does the guy need to make some changes? did he make mistakes this year that he needs to improve on? absolutely. . . bill ****ing walsh didn't win the super bowl his first season, and belichick was a disaster in cleveland. . . i'm not suggesting that mcD gets a free pass-- he has a LOT of work to do, and he needs to make changes in a number of areas. . . that stuff doesn't just magically happen over night, though-- i won't say "give the guy a chance before you burn him to the ground" because those of you who aren't now aren't going to change, and if you need a scapegoat, i guess that's part of the coach's job. . .

i'm going to wait and see what he does this offseason-- if he doesn't fix the interior O-line and draft with a better eye towards value, i'll probably be bitching too. . . :lol:


i wish people would quit with the cowher stuff, though. . . he was never an X's and O's guy, and i see no real reason to believe he can duplicate his results from pittsburgh. . . that organization is a football factory, from top to bottom-- they scout well, they draft and develop well, and they coach well. . . they haven't missed a beat without cowher-- tomlin has as many rings in three years there as cowher did in fifteen. . . cowher owes a TON of his success in the 'burgh to dick le beau's defense and the pittsburgh personnel department and coaching staff. . . we'll see how well the guy does on his own, when he doesn't have guaranteed talent and depth pretty much every year, an elite defense coordinated by one of the all-time great defensive minds and a rugged O-line put together by russ grimm. . . a lot of guys could succeed with what he had in pitt. . .

[NightTrainLayne]

What do you see that tells you we are on the right track?

Clue #1 is that McD is making changes.

You all are all complaining about all the changes. The only way this team was going to get better was to change from top (Shanny) to bottom. Those changes haven't had time to pay off yet, but I see a lot of seeds planted this season that will start to bear fruit down the road.

You can't see it. You can't bother yourself to look at the seeds underground. All you care about is the full-grown crop at harvest.

That's all Shanny seemed to care about as well over the past decade. He didn't want to plant, and nurture a crop, but just harvest the end product. Just look at all the "final pieces" he brought in every year.

Right now as fans, we should all be enjoying watching how our team is being built. Look at what's developing. Try and figure out where it's all going, and what the final plan will look like.

Instead, so many are bitching about the south 40 that got infested with a fungus and had to be plowed under. . .and blaming the tractor driver for it in the process.

That's a bad analogy I know, but it's the best I can do on short notice.

[CoachChaz]

Because we are Broncos fans and we want instant success without having to earn it. Thinks this hasn't affected the fan base? Look how many no shows there were for the KC game yesterday. There are a lot of fans that don't like the fact that McD couldnt turn us into a Super Bowl contender overnight and I'm one of them.

Edited for accuracy

[lameduck33]

and to say hillis should have started was never my point, my point is, he is a great reciever out of the backfield and better runner than anyone on our roster for short yardage situations...hillis is underutiliezed regardless of what anyone says! now on the other hand shanny would have never let this happen, when and if he had players that didnt want to be here he got them out, so we wouldnt have these situations come up in week 16, ala portis! another thing wasnt it cutler who talked wiegman to come back and play?

[arapaho2]

I think alot of the difference lies within the need. Last year, when we were behind...we were WAY behind. In those games, we had to pass, which allowed us to run more. This year, the games have been close and we could utilize both areas of our offense.

Unfortunately, the line chose differently. Seriously...do you really believe that the line played poorly because we had a more dynamic RB and because they were asked to run a more basic blocking scheme?


we were forced to pass therfore we ran more?...:listen: pssst it dont work that way....and bunked by facts...last year in a pass happy attack we ran the ball 387 times..ranked 11th...this year in your orton led balanced attack we ran 440 times yet have less yards, and ranked alot lower

i believe...
1. the switch to pbs from the zbs these guys were drafted for was a mistake and our run game shows it
2. i believe it was a mistake to keep running moreno when we had hillis...if hillis showed no improvment in rushing yards or couldnt get the short yardage conversions that moreno couldnt..then keep plugging away with moreno...but at least try to fix it and not throw the line under the bus!!

[arapaho2]

accountability, when marshall told moreno hold onto the ball, yet it seemed to me mcd didnt every take the ball from that guy, yet hillis has a fumble and gets scratched for the season! all the drops by recievers yesterday by your new number one reciever going into next year! was he held accountable, yeah right!

gaffeny has more drops then scheffler or marshall for the season...yet he's ok:confused:

[silkamilkamonico]

But who would have dreamed a year ago that Shanahan would get shown the door?


Especially cosidering he should have been shown the door 5-6 years ago.

With as patient as Bowlen was with Shanahan, McDaniels will sure get at least 5-6 years, regardless of results.

[arapaho2]

If Winston Churchill had worried about what the people thought, Britain would have lost the war . . .

-----

if america didnt save britains butt they would be speaking german in london today

[silkamilkamonico]

gaffeny has more drops then scheffler or marshall for the season...yet he's ok:confused:

Gaffney doesn't have character issues, and doesn't think he's above the his teammates like marshall apparently does.

[topscribe]

gaffeny has more drops then scheffler or marshall for the season...yet he's ok:confused:

Has documentation been posted to that effect, or did I miss something?

-----

[broncofaninfla]

If Winston Churchill had worried about what the people thought, Britain would have lost the war . . .

-----

So what? Mcd is Winston Churchill now???? LMAO!!! Our coach was given the responsibility to make us a better team this year and he didn't do that. Now we are arguably the worst team in the AFC West losing at home to EVERY AFC West team. I know Mcd is safe for now and I would LOVE to eat Crow on my opinion of him BUT I see very little reason for optimism with him as our head coach.

[topscribe]

if america didnt save britains butt they would be speaking german in london today

Winston Churchill had worried about what the people thought, Britain would have lost the war . . .

Get my point. :tsk:

-----

[claymore]

if america didnt save britains butt they would be speaking german in london todayUSA, USA, USA!


Gaffney doesn't have character issues, and doesn't think he's above the his teammates like marshall apparently does.

Lots of scrub players dont have attitudes.

[silkamilkamonico]

Lots of scrub players dont have attitudes.

So do a lot of star players.

[claymore]

So do a lot of star players.

Marshall has youthful character issues. And I want him traded. Like I did before TC.

Having said that, anyone that says Marshall isnt a team player is just being hateful.

He has zero loyalty to a team that has misdiagnosed medical problems, put him on the trading block, and refused to invest money in him long term.

I wouldnt play the last game either. Not if 60 million dollars was on the line. Only an idiot would.

[silkamilkamonico]

Marshall has youthful character issues. And I want him traded. Like I did before TC.

Having said that, anyone that says Marshall isnt a team player is just being hateful.

He has zero loyalty to a team that has misdiagnosed medical problems, put him on the trading block, and refused to invest money in him long term.

I wouldnt play the last game either. Not if 60 million dollars was on the line. Only an idiot would.

I would be hateful if I said he isn't a team player, yet he shouldn't take one for the team because $60 million dollars was on the line? That's completely contradictive. I can understand him not wanting to play from a business perspective, but I certaintly can't say he's team oriented with his decision.

I agree about the misdiagnosed problems. Although he lost any chance of an early long term deal, which Denver was getting ready to give him, with his TC tirade.

[arapaho2]

Winston Churchill had worried about what the people thought, Britain would have lost the war . . .

Get my point. :tsk:

-----

my point is it didnt matter what the brits thought or what churchill worried about...without us they would be speaking german;)

[arapaho2]

Winston Churchill had worried about what the people thought, Britain would have lost the war . . .

Get my point. :tsk:

-----


besides top...i counter with

if mcd had worried about what people thought..he would have kept the zbs..he would have kept a probowl qb...he would have just given a pro bowl wr his money..he would have utilized the talent wasting away on the bench...he would have not waited until the last game when you dont have a pass catching TE and a pro bowl wr to start chucking the ball downfield...we would have canned the predictable playcalling

but he didnt care...and here we are..8-8

[claymore]

I would be hateful if I said he isn't a team player, yet he shouldn't take one for the team because $60 million dollars was on the line? That's completely contradictive. I can understand him not wanting to play from a business perspective, but I certaintly can't say he's team oriented with his decision.

I agree about the misdiagnosed problems. Although he lost any chance of an early long term deal, which Denver was getting ready to give him, with his TC tirade.

They werent going to pay him anyway, thats wwhy he threw the fit. He had a meeting with JMCD right before that happened. And we can only speculate the sevarity of his injury. The coach benched him so he never got a chance to NOT play.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Gaffney doesn't have character issues, and doesn't think he's above the his teammates like marshall apparently does.

I think some of that may be that he's just happy to have a job somewhere. he did play for two other teams before and neither thought he was worth re-signing when his contract was up. Just saying.

[Ravage!!!]

I think some of that may be that he's just happy to have a job somewhere. he did play for two other teams before and neither thought he was worth re-signing when his contract was up. Just saying.

But now some are saying that he "proved he could be our #1" after the KC game. :shocked: :lol:

[Broncolingus]

Florio is totally off on this.

I agree...surprised we didn't make the playoffs after the fast start, and even more surprised at how this story has repeated for the past 3-4 seasons with sooo many changes over that span.

Sure, McD has blame for the poor finish, but that isnt solely on him or any one or two people only for that matter. Team won together...and then failed together and a team approach (some coaches and owners need to check that methinks) is the way you win championships.

On the side, a couple of idiots comment frequently about how (truth or no) its some sports writers thing to stir the pot, but bottom line, Florio's article is just fluff...

IMO of course...