Who Will Give Us a First and a Third For Marshall?

[WARHORSE]

Now that we are officially in the offseason, the discussion undoubtedly turns to a different avenue.

Frankly, Im ready.



Who is so WR needy, that they are going to give up a first and a third for Brandon. Afterall, while some teams may need a WR, are many willing to pony up for Marshall?

Below is pretty much the draft order. Looking at both position and needs, here are my thoughts on what the considerations for each team would be in looking at a possible trade for Marshall.


1. Saint Louis -Nope, too high
2. Detroit - Nope, too high
3. Tampa Bay - Nope, too high
4. Washington - Would Shanny do it? Nope. Hes gettin a QB.
5. Kansas City - Nope- Pioli doesnt want ME players.
6. Seattle -Not here, but possible below at 14, adding someone to TJ Housh
7. Cleveland - Holmgren wont do it.
8. Oakland - Al Davis would be IGNORANT to do it- Definitely in the running
9. Buffalo -I was gonna say no, but they signed T.O. last year. Maybe.
10. Jacksonville - I dont think Del Rio will go for a Marshall type. Maybe.
11. Denver (via Chicago) Im gonna list Chicago. They may give up 2011 pick.
12. Miami - I doubt it with Parcels running the show.
13. San Francisco - This is a possibility.
14. Seattle (via Denver) This is a possibility.
15. New York Giants This is a possibility.
16. Tennessee Fisher wont like the character, but Marshall is what Young needs. Together with Johnson.....look out.
17. San Francisco (via Carolina) This would be the pick Denver gets from SF
18. Pittsburgh -Nope. No need.
19. Atlanta - Possible. Already have a high priced WR.
20. Houston - Possibility. He knows Kubes offense. Matched with Andre...scary.
21. New York Jets - Possible. They have defense. Missing offensive firepower. Big help to Sanchez.
22. Baltimore -Possible.
23. Arizona - Nope.
24. Cincinnati - Nope.
25. New England - Possible. He knows the offense. Marshall. Welker. Moss. Brady throwin the ball.
26. Green Bay - Nope.
27. Philadelphia - I dont think so. Possible.
28. Dallas - Jerry Jones....possible, but have to sign Austin, have Williams already.
29. Minnesota- Possible.
30. New Orleans -Nope.
31. San Diego -They gotta sign Jackson. I dont see it.
32. Indianapolis-Yes. Value for the 32nd pick cant be matched. Scary.

As we can see, half the league would be willing to do it....especially at the lower end of the draft.



Thats why Denver will franchise Marshall. This will be the only way to get maximum value for him. No one is going to give up two firsts, except possibly San Fran imo. That means, that if he were franchised, Denver gains leverage.

I believe, if you look above, that alot of teams would be willing to give up a first and a third. Thing is, if you have three or four, and all of them know the other teams are willing to give up the same, then it comes down to money. The team willing to pay the most would get Marshall, and Denver would really have no say as to how high the draft picks are.

Say for instance, its the Patriots. Do you think the Patriots are williing to give up the 25th pick in rounds 1 and 3 for a player that knows their offense? Especially after Welker went down? I do. In that intstance, the Pats would simply have to outbid other teams. They would gain alot.

By franchising BM. The Pats would have to give up two first rounders. They dont have them. If none of the teams are willing to give up two first rounders, then it becomes an issue of what Denver is willing to accept as compensation. THEN, the Broncos have leverage. They can at least determine that their first rounder will be significant, and not low end, as well as the third, which they may end up saying should be a second.

Marshall is a goner. Lets get what we can.

:salute:

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Why not just ******* pay the man?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I still don't think it will take a 1st and 3rd to land marshall no matter what he's tendered.

Nobody will offer that so we might get a single 1st or a 2nd. It's like buying a car, just because the sticker price says a 1st and 3rd, doesn't mean that's what you have to pay to drive it off the lot - that's what you hope to get. We don't have any reason to keep Marshall. McD hates him. That first and third is for players that you don't want to lose, but can't afford to sign long term. We don't want to keep Marshall. We'll jump at the first opportunity we get at a second round pick or better. Just watch. Washington has the #4 pick in the second, don't be surprised to see Snyder, Allen, and Shanny offer it up for Marshall and us jump all over it.

[Northman]

Rumor is Bmore is still interested in Marshall. With Mason probably not sticking around next year they may bite.

[Northman]

Why not just ******* pay the man?

Its probably not about money at this point. Its a clash of minds. Just like the Jay fiasco its just not going to happen.

[camdisco24]

I still don't think it will take a 1st and 3rd to land marshall no matter what he's tendered.

Nobody will offer that so we might get a single 1st or a 2nd. It's like buying a car, just because the sticker price says a 1st and 3rd, doesn't mean that's what you have to pay to drive it off the lot - that's what you hope to get. We don't have any reason to keep Marshall. McD hates him. That first and third is for players that you don't want to lose, but can't afford to sign long term. We don't want to keep Marshall. We'll jump at the first opportunity we get at a second round pick or better. Just watch. Washington has the #4 pick in the second, don't be surprised to see Snyder, Allen, and Shanny offer it up for Marshall and us jump all over it.

I'm still not convinced that Shanny liked Marshall all that much.... Would he be willing to deal with him again?? If so, I think Wash is the likley home for B Marsh.

I hope he goes to some terrible 1-15 or 2-14 to team so he misses Denver. Oh wait.... he doest care about winning just $$$$$$$$$!!!!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Why not just ******* pay the man?

Because McDaniels hates him. All hope of re-signing Marshall and having him around next year went out the window the second McD benched him and then publicly called out his toughness and integrity.

[mopatt24]

SF will make that deal, they have the ammo to do it with 2 first round picks

[WARHORSE]

Why not just ******* pay the man?

If I gotta tell ya, you havent been paying attention.

[WARHORSE]

I still don't think it will take a 1st and 3rd to land marshall no matter what he's tendered.

Nobody will offer that so we might get a single 1st or a 2nd. It's like buying a car, just because the sticker price says a 1st and 3rd, doesn't mean that's what you have to pay to drive it off the lot - that's what you hope to get. We don't have any reason to keep Marshall. McD hates him. That first and third is for players that you don't want to lose, but can't afford to sign long term. We don't want to keep Marshall. We'll jump at the first opportunity we get at a second round pick or better. Just watch. Washington has the #4 pick in the second, don't be surprised to see Snyder, Allen, and Shanny offer it up for Marshall and us jump all over it.



If we got that pick, its a done deal in my eyes.


But if you dont think a team with a late pick in the draft wouldnt give up a late first and third for a player of BMs ability, Id have to say that you and I have a differing view of talent in the NFL. :coffee:

[Nomad]

SF will make that deal, they have the ammo to do it with 2 first round picks

As rc said in his thread, the BRONCOS would be dumb to trade with an in conference team plus Singletary would set him straight!! SF would be a good place for him, since he doesn't want to be a BRONCO!!

[jjtodd5]

While I hope we can move Marshall for a first and a 3rd the other issue we have is that Anquan Boldin will probably be on the market too. Maybe he's not quite as talented as Marshall but he is very good, and he's sucked it up and played when he wanted his new contract, no punting balls during practice or any of that fun stuff. having Boldin on the market could drive our price down, especially with our extremely inexperienced front office. If they wait for Boldin to go first they could pull off a heist from a desperate team (San Fran, maybe, cuz I doubt Boldin would go in division), but I seriously wonder if our front office will be patient enough to do this or if they just want the problem off their hands.

[Ravage!!!]

San Fran just paid big bucks to a hold-out WR. Why would they use another high pick on yet another WR???? they wouldn't

I keep reading "too high, too high".. why? These teams would have to pay big bucks to their first round pick anyway. WHy wouldn't they be willing to spend the money on a proved commodity?

The Jets would be wise to. The Titans would be smart to. Seattle, the Giants, Tampa, Cleveland, Baltimore.. would all be smart to.

[Ravage!!!]

St Louis decides the up-front money they would be spending on a pick is better off being spent to a player that has proved to be a stud in the NFL. Then, we used those grabbed pick to send to AZ for Boldin instead of taking on the 1st over-all pick. AZ then gives us their pick in exchange for Marshall and the 1st over all. :salute:

[Nomad]

How does this stuff work?? Do they have to wait until have the SB or can the teams not in the playoffs start shopping around/negotiating!!

[dogfish]

Who Will Give Us a First and a Third For Marshall?

IMO, probably no one, given that whoever acquires him will also have to turn around and sign him to a giant contract-- and also given that he can be a major pain in the ass, has some questions about his work ethic, and most importantly is one more legal screw-up away from an 8-game or longer suspension. . . IF the current situation hadn't have developed a would've said possibly, but as of right now i doubt it. . . we can speculate back and forth from now until next year's training camp, and it only takes one team to pull the trigger, but as of right now i'd say signing him to the highest RFA tender and then trading him is more realistic than getting somebody to sign him to an offer sheet. . .

if i had to guess i'd say that baltimore and the jets are the top possiblities-- they both have a screaming need for an impact wideout, and both were interested when we dangled him last year. . . i think buffalo is a solid possibility also-- marshall's FAR better than TO at this point in their respective careers, and has never been a QB killer like owens. . . and ralph wilson wants badly to see his team have success again in his lifetime. . .

dallas and washington are obvious wild cards. . . you can scratch washington IF they hire shenanigans and reports about his feelings towards marshall were true, but otherwise they're a prime candidate. . . and if dallas can keep miles austin as an RFA, i think they're near the top of the list for obvious reasons-- jerruh jones has never cared about character or price when he has a chance to collect flashy talent. . . cleveland has an obvious need and a high 2nd to offer, but i don't know if holmgren would want the headaches-- and they're about fifteen other pieces besides a top wideout away from being contenders. . . st. louis has a major need and a high 2nd, but i don't know that spagnuolo would want him. . . tampa has a need and a high 2nd, but the glazers are too cheap to pay out the kind of money he'll want. . .

jacksonville is probably the other serious candidate-- del rio is perpetually on the hot seat, they desperately need to put a team on the field that can sell more tickets, and marshall is the kind of talent that could put david garrard and that offense over the hump and into contention in that division again. . .

i don't know why people are mentioning indy-- it couldn't be further from the way they do business! they never spend a dime in free agency, and they're always right up against the cap (to the point that they frequently let their own talent walk). . . when was the last time they acquired a big name veteran talent? and where's the need? they have a deadly receiving corps as it is, with not one but THREE talented young receivers who are just going to get better, along with a stud number one wideout and elite receiving TE. . . they need marshall like pittsburgh needs more linebackers. . . what's he going to do, help them win about 13 games every year? they already do, and when they lose in the playoffs it certainly isn't because of their passing game. . .

i'm guessing the main contenders for his services will be baltimore, the jets, dallas, buffalo and jacksonville. . .

[dogfish]

SF will make that deal, they have the ammo to do it with 2 first round picks

i doubt it. . . they just spent a top ten pick and a big contract on crabtree to be their number one receiver, and he's already shown signs of being just that. . . how much money does a coach with a grind-it-out running mentality really want to tie up in the position? besides, josh morgan is a physical freak with sick potential, jason hill is another young talent with a lot of ability, and vernon davis blossomed into a bigtime receiving threat this year. . . the niners desperately need help with their feeble offensive line and mediocre pass rush, not more pass catchers. . .

[bcbronc]

Miami should be in the mix as well. they need a #1 receiver in the worst way. remember, Parcels and Keyshawn were BFFs, so Tuna isn't afraid of personalities.

there should be enough potential suitors that a mid 1st-high 2nd should be the minimum we receive for him. Too bad, love the kids talent, but that's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

[sneakers]

I think the broncos will franchise tag him this next season

[JDL]

San Fran just paid big bucks to a hold-out WR. Why would they use another high pick on yet another WR???? they wouldn't

I keep reading "too high, too high".. why? These teams would have to pay big bucks to their first round pick anyway. WHy wouldn't they be willing to spend the money on a proved commodity?

The Jets would be wise to. The Titans would be smart to. Seattle, the Giants, Tampa, Cleveland, Baltimore.. would all be smart to.

Agree with point 1 - San Fran doesn't want TWO PRIMA DONNA WRS... they just got done with one headache, not taking on a 2nd... and they have visions of T.O. in their past.

No top 10 draft team is giving up that pick for Marshall...period. It's just the way it is... I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment it shouldn't be that way...but the only team that's come close to that philosophy is Washington and it hasn't worked out.

[JDL]

BTW, Giants have ZERO interest... they have a TERRIFIC young WR Corps!!!

Everyone ought to hope that Indianapolis misses the Super Bowl... if they do, Marshall can rekindle his friendship with Manning from last year (broadcasters talked about during EvERY damn drop.) lol But, Marshall hasn't dropped many passes this year... his wrist looks healthy and if he has a good Pro Bowl with Manning they are very much in consideration with Wayne going on 32 and needing to secure another long-term target for Manning. They wouldn't hesitate to part with pick #30 (again super bowl contestants don't play in Pro Bowl so that might work against this happening.. plus an early exit would push them into a possible bidding war.)

[JDL]

I would love Boldin... I would love to get a 1 and 3 from Indianapolis and use the 1 on Boldin...(he's up there in age.. will be 30 next year... but he works hard, blocks great and plays hurt.)

[jjtodd5]

If we could get Boldin that'd be awesome. He's a great reciever and he plays through pretty much anything. Plus, that totally opens up the market for Marshall because there would be no one comparable to Marshall out there anymore.

[JDL]

If we could get Boldin that'd be awesome. He's a great reciever and he plays through pretty much anything. Plus, that totally opens up the market for Marshall because there would be no one comparable to Marshall out there anymore.

Well, we'd have to deal Marshall to have the draft pick to get Boldin... no way Boldin is worth our higher 1st rd pick or really anything earlier than a late 1st rd pick.. (injuries/age/contract) depending on Warner though, Cardinals could be very willing to start reloading this offseason... but it really would take a 1st I think to finally make that happen. It's been talked about here forever. Guy hates the organization as much as Marshall hates Denver, but has gone about it in a completely different way.

[jjtodd5]

Well, we'd have to deal Marshall to have the draft pick to get Boldin... no way Boldin is worth our higher 1st rd pick or really anything earlier than a late 1st rd pick.. (injuries/age/contract) depending on Warner though, Cardinals could be very willing to start reloading this offseason... but it really would take a 1st I think to finally make that happen. It's been talked about here forever. Guy hates the organization as much as Marshall hates Denver, but has gone about it in a completely different way.

I don't know though from what was reported earlier this year, although it's died down recently, it seemed that Arizona was prepared to move Boldin this offseason, where they hadn't been the last two years. Another option would be a 3 way trade where someone gets Marshall, we get Boldin, and a late round pick, and Arizona gets someone elses first. Than again does the NFL even allow 3 team deals? That sounds more like an NBA trade than something you'd ever see in the NFL.

[WARHORSE]

St Louis decides the up-front money they would be spending on a pick is better off being spent to a player that has proved to be a stud in the NFL. Then, we used those grabbed pick to send to AZ for Boldin instead of taking on the 1st over-all pick. AZ then gives us their pick in exchange for Marshall and the 1st over all. :salute:

Its possible.

[WARHORSE]

Well, we'd have to deal Marshall to have the draft pick to get Boldin... no way Boldin is worth our higher 1st rd pick or really anything earlier than a late 1st rd pick.. (injuries/age/contract) depending on Warner though, Cardinals could be very willing to start reloading this offseason... but it really would take a 1st I think to finally make that happen. It's been talked about here forever. Guy hates the organization as much as Marshall hates Denver, but has gone about it in a completely different way.


Boldin is beat up. Hes one of those receivers that tries to run through everyone. Problem is, it leads to a short NFL career.


NO THANKS when it comes to Boldin for me.

[JDL]

I don't know though from what was reported earlier this year, although it's died down recently, it seemed that Arizona was prepared to move Boldin this offseason, where they hadn't been the last two years. Another option would be a 3 way trade where someone gets Marshall, we get Boldin, and a late round pick, and Arizona gets someone elses first. Than again does the NFL even allow 3 team deals? That sounds more like an NBA trade than something you'd ever see in the NFL.

Arizona has been ready, nobody has offered the #1 ... but he'll be entering the last year of his deal, Warner might not come back... there was certainly hesitation before, but they've always been willing I think, for the right price. Also, their young WRs have really stepped up, I don't think Boldin is seen as integral.. it would be really nice if they'd take a mid-2nd and 4th for him as it is tough because he is VERY beat up, no doubt... but he does take his offseason workout routine very seriously and plays hard... wouldn't be a bad locker room guy. No way is Gaffney a #1 WR, he's a questionable #2 (1 game against a bad pass D doesn't change all that) and so we will need someone and I'd rather spend it on a known quantity than one of the many WR picks that bust (they are very scary to project... lot's of failed evaluations when it comes to drafting WR.)

[dogfish]

Its possible.

no way-- they started printing "suh" jerseys in st. louis several hours ago. . .

[Italianmobstr7]

I think that Denver will re-sign Brandon. I know that seems far fetched right now, but I really just have a good feeling about it. I know the season ended on a crappy note, but I think that Rod may talk to Brandon again and we will re-sign Marshall. Scheffler is gone though.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Why not just ******* pay the man?

Oh... because the little scared Bronco fans fear that he may go full blown T.O.

The horrors!

Top 2 wide out in this league. Make him happy. Nick the problems in the ass.

And as you said.... PAY THE ******* MAN!

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

If we could get Boldin that'd be awesome. He's a great reciever and he plays through pretty much anything. Plus, that totally opens up the market for Marshall because there would be no one comparable to Marshall out there anymore.

Major downgrade.

Pass.

[camdisco24]

Major downgrade.

Pass.

Major Downgrade?? I dont think so. Sure he's no Marshall but the dude can play and is much less of a risk than some kid out of college.

Heck, he's actually an upgrade when it comes to work ethic and being a GOOD (accountable) teammate. I think it'd be a good pickup when you weigh all the other options.

(Outside of football, people actually respect Boldin. Half of Denver hates Marshall right now, he's a goner. Face it.)

[topscribe]

Major Downgrade?? I dont think so. Sure he's no Marshall but the dude can play and is much less of a risk than some kid out of college.

Heck, he's actually an upgrade when it comes to work ethic and being a GOOD (accountable) teammate. I think it'd be a good pickup when you weigh all the other options.

(Outside of football, people actually respect Boldin. Half of Denver hates Marshall right now, he's a goner. Face it.)

After the way Gaffney played today, I could live with him and Boldin on the field together . . .

-----

[camdisco24]

After the way Gaffney played today, I could live with him and Boldin on the field together . . .

-----

Oh yeah, they'd be a great duo.
Gaffney looked like he could step up as a #1 for us.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Major Downgrade?? I dont think so. Sure he's no Marshall but the dude can play and is much less of a risk than some kid out of college.

Heck, he's actually an upgrade when it comes to work ethic and being a GOOD (accountable) teammate. I think it'd be a good pickup when you weigh all the other options.

(Outside of football, people actually respect Boldin. Half of Denver hates Marshall right now, he's a goner. Face it.)

Ok, major downgrade was hyperbole.

Boldin is a hell of a receiver, no denying that but as another poster alluded to, the type of game he plays, I just don't see him having a lengthy career in the league. His playing style doesn't lend itself to longevity and the last thing this team needs is to bank its fortunes (or some of them at least) on a go to star receiver only to have him on the sidelines more often than not.

I didn't see much accountability from the Broncos today at Invesco. Brandon isn't an angel but he gives this team the best chance to win on any given day right now.

Anyway, yeah moot point. Denver hates Marshall (not me), and Marshall probably despises Denver and the gong show that is the Bronco organization.

It will be a sad day when he goes for me. But hey, as a Bronco fan... have to be used to being the red headed stepchild of the NFL I guess.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Oh yeah, they'd be a great duo.
Gaffney looked like he could step up as a #1 for us.

So we're banking on a #1 based on a one game sample size now?

Gaffney is a great wideout but doing it (being a #1 guy) over the course of a season compared to one or two games is a whole different story.

[camdisco24]

So we're banking on a #1 based on a one game sample size now?

Gaffney is a great wideout but doing it (being a #1 guy) over the course of a season compared to one or two games is a whole different story.

I said he looked like he could step up, not he would step up.
He's been solid all year when involved, so he has the possibility to be good for us if he and Orton and get on the same page. But who knows whats gonna happen with our WR corp at this point... it'll be interesting to watch.

[Medford Bronco]

Oh wait.... he doest care about winning just $$$$$$$$$!!!!

That sounds like the QB with zero winning seasons since HS that just got a 30million dollar extension this year. Hmmmmmm

[Medford Bronco]

Oh yeah, they'd be a great duo.
Gaffney looked like he could step up as a #1 for us.

I like Gaffney but he is not a #1 wideout this this league. He is a serviceable #2 but best at being a #3

[bcbronc]

I didn't see much accountability from the Broncos today at Invesco. Brandon isn't an angel but he gives this team the best chance to win on any given day right now.



don't matter. Marshall wasn't going to play even if McDaniels did activate him. Remember the whole "I knew I wouldn't be playing as soon as I tweaked my hamstring" thing?

the McD haters have to remember that McDaniels didn't scratch a Marshall that wanted on the field; all he did was refuse to say BM couldn't play due to injury since McD (and apparently the team captains) felt Marshall was pussing out.


After the way Gaffney played today, I could live with him and Boldin on the field together . . .

-----

I'm not throwing the towel in on Royal yet. I'll let give him a chance to show this season was just a combination of sophomore slump, a new QB/system, and Orton locking in on his primary receiver too often.

if we assume BM is gone, Royal is now by far our most talented receiver. next season, he'll be the lucky recipient of 6 bubble screens per game.

[WARHORSE]

no way-- they started printing "suh" jerseys in st. louis several hours ago. . .

I know.

But its still possible.


I wasnt agreeing, and I know it wont happen, but its possible.


I was trying to be encouraging to a bad thought. heh heh

[Overtime]

Baltimore would give up a 1st and and possibly a 2nd for Marshall.

they're going to need another receiver when Derrick Mason retires.

it would also be a win/win for them due to the fact they made the playoffs, and will pick later in each round of the draft, but it would be a win/win for Denver because we can get some decent players with both picks.

[BCJ]

WHo says we have to trade for draft picks? I would like a stud receiver with some good potential and not a mental case. Franchise tagging him doesnt help the situation for both parties.

[CoachChaz]

I dont know if Gaffney's play today proves he can be a #1, but it certainly proves that the system creates the numbers. You could have had Lloyd in the #1 spot and the numbers would have been the same. Worked the same way in NE. When Brown and Givens were done...Moss and Welker stepped in.

[broncofaninfla]

If NFL fans are any indication we'll have no problem trading Marshall. I was at a sports yesterday and that was a HUGE topic of discussion, seems everybody wants him.

[CoachChaz]

If NFL fans are any indication we'll have no problem trading Marshall. I was at a sports yesterday and that was a HUGE topic of discussion, seems everybody wants him.

Lot's of people wanted TO at one point. Just saying.

[broncofaninfla]

Lot's of people wanted TO at one point. Just saying.

Yeah but we had Marshall and have had a chance to see how dominant he can be first hand. This team lacks playmakers and we are about to trade away our best. There is no guarentee we will get a playmaker in return in fact odds are against it.

[CoachChaz]

Personally, if we get a 1st and a 3rd for Marshall, I think we are fleecing someone. Possession receivers that average 10 yards per reception are a dime a dozen. Take any one of them and throw the ball at them 150+ times and I'm betting they get 100 receptions out of it. See: Jabar Gaffney

Marshall has skill and talent...no argument there. But calling him a "playmaker"? Not yet anyway. Say what you want about the 100 reception seasons, but it's not like that is a rare things anymore.

[SOCALORADO.]

All of these teams will be in the mashall market.
NYJ
NYG
BALT
CLE
SEA
TB
SF

Kenny Britt has played really well for TEN, so i think they pass.
BALT is the team that can come in and not only offer picks, but BALT may even offer a player as well. They have the veterans and coach to put Marshall in his place. he wont be able to throw any tantrums there. And he will play in cold weather, and he will like it.
SF also has a coach and a track record (Davis) of getting the most out of problematic players. amrshall would make SF's offense really potent, and SF has the picks.
NYG also would be a team to consider. They have a bunch of smaller, speedsters, but not a big possesion reciever. I actually could see a multi player deal possibly for BOTH! Marshall and! Sheffler to NYG's for some of their offensive and defensive linemen.
Crhis Canty DT/DE
Jonathan Goff ILB
Terrell Thomas CB
Justin Tuck DT/DE
Mario Manningham WR
Steve Smith WR

Any of these players could be considered in a massive trade with the NYG who also underachieved this year as a team, and yet have alot of talented players on their team.
Picks would also possibly be included. Who knows. Anythings possible.

[topscribe]

Personally, if we get a 1st and a 3rd for Marshall, I think we are fleecing someone. Possession receivers that average 10 yards per reception are a dime a dozen. Take any one of them and throw the ball at them 150+ times and I'm betting they get 100 receptions out of it. See: Jabar Gaffney

Marshall has skill and talent...no argument there. But calling him a "playmaker"? Not yet anyway. Say what you want about the 100 reception seasons, but it's not like that is a rare things anymore.

If they have 100 at the conclusion of game 14, now that would be something.

That's what our Lionel Taylor did.

Anyway, after seeing what Gaffney did, I'd take a 1st and 3rd for Marshall in a heartbeat . . .

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

All of these teams will be in the mashall market.
NYJ
NYG
BALT
CLE
SEA
TB
SF

Kenny Britt has played really well for TEN, so i think they pass.
BALT is the team that can come in and not only offer picks, but BALT may even offer a player as well. They have the veterans and coach to put Marshall in his place. he wont be able to throw any tantrums there. And he will play in cold weather, and he will like it.
SF also has a coach and a track record (Davis) of getting the most out of problematic players. amrshall would make SF's offense really potent, and SF has the picks.
NYG also would be a team to consider. They have a bunch of smaller, speedsters, but not a big possesion reciever. I actually could see a multi player deal possibly for BOTH! Marshall and! Sheffler to NYG's for some of their offensive and defensive linemen.
Crhis Canty DT/DE
Jonathan Goff ILB
Terrell Thomas CB
Justin Tuck DT/DE
Mario Manningham WR
Steve Smith WR

Any of these players could be considered in a massive trade with the NYG who also underachieved this year as a team, and yet have alot of talented players on their team.
Picks would also possibly be included. Who knows. Anythings possible.

I'll trade Marshall for Ngata straight up.

[G_Money]

Just to say one thing about 100+ reception seasons:


Players with Multiple 100+ reception seasons:
Marvin Harrison (4)
Jerry Rice (4)
Herman Moore (3)
Andre Johnson (3)
Brandon Marshall (3)
Wes Welker (3)
Reggie Wayne (2)
Anquan Boldin (2)
Jimmy Smith (2)
Tory Holt (2)
Randy Moss (2)
Rod Smith (2)
Sterling Sharpe (2)
Larry Fitzgerald (2)
Chris Carter (2)

Michael Irvin only did it once. TO only did it once. Hines Ward? Once.

The multiple 100+ catch season list is pretty exclusive. 100 catches rates well with a 1,500 yard season by a RB (66 seasons with 100+ catches have been recorded, 78 with 1500 yards running).

Marshall is tied for 3rd all-time on that list behind 2 first-ballot HOF receivers. His YPC isn't significantly behind someone LIKE Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson(.9 yards). He's pretty much where Hines Ward and Anquan Boldin are (12.1-12.2 yards per touch).

Marshall is every bit the talent on the field that he wants to be paid like. Is it worth the price of that production to risk his potential suspension for another run-in with the law? That's what some other team will have to decide, and someone is gonna give up a first round pick.

And then it will be our job to replace that production. It shouldn't be hard; as Coach mentioned Gaffney, we might as well go with him - his per-catch numbers are the same as Marshall's.

We'll find out very soon if Marshall's 100 catches every year are an over-rated part of our offense.

~G

[turftoad]

Sheeeesh...... if we do get a first and a third, who's to say that they won't be busts?

Draft picks haven't played a down if the NFL yet. Marshal is already a proven NFL player.

Sucks either way doesn't it.

[SOCALORADO.]

Just to say one thing about 100+ reception seasons:



Michael Irvin only did it once. TO only did it once. Hines Ward? Once.

The multiple 100+ catch season list is pretty exclusive. 100 catches rates well with a 1,500 yard season by a RB (66 seasons with 100+ catches have been recorded, 78 with 1500 yards running).

Marshall is tied for 3rd all-time on that list behind 2 first-ballot HOF receivers. His YPC isn't significantly behind someone LIKE Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson(.9 yards). He's pretty much where Hines Ward and Anquan Boldin are (12.1-12.2 yards per touch).

Marshall is every bit the talent on the field that he wants to be paid like. Is it worth the price of that production to risk his potential suspension for another run-in with the law? That's what some other team will have to decide, and someone is gonna give up a first round pick.

And then it will be our job to replace that production. It shouldn't be hard; as Coach mentioned Gaffney, we might as well go with him - his per-catch numbers are the same as Marshall's.

We'll find out very soon if Marshall's 100 catches every year are an over-rated part of our offense.

~G

Nice. I cant tell though if your being sarcastic when saying Gaffney should replace Marshalls production. :lol:
I dont see Gaffney going up and making those catches that Marshall made all year. Thats what makes Marshall so good.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Just to say one thing about 100+ reception seasons:



Michael Irvin only did it once. TO only did it once. Hines Ward? Once.

The multiple 100+ catch season list is pretty exclusive. 100 catches rates well with a 1,500 yard season by a RB (66 seasons with 100+ catches have been recorded, 78 with 1500 yards running).

Marshall is tied for 3rd all-time on that list behind 2 first-ballot HOF receivers. His YPC isn't significantly behind someone LIKE Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson(.9 yards). He's pretty much where Hines Ward and Anquan Boldin are (12.1-12.2 yards per touch).

Marshall is every bit the talent on the field that he wants to be paid like. Is it worth the price of that production to risk his potential suspension for another run-in with the law? That's what some other team will have to decide, and someone is gonna give up a first round pick.

And then it will be our job to replace that production. It shouldn't be hard; as Coach mentioned Gaffney, we might as well go with him - his per-catch numbers are the same as Marshall's.

We'll find out very soon if Marshall's 100 catches every year are an over-rated part of our offense.

~G

Yards per catch are usually completely based on scheme. How can anyone think that Marshall's YPC average is "bad" when all we did was throw 3 yd curls and 0 yd bubble screens? Almost all of marshall's receiving yardage this season was YAC. That's a personal achievement on his part. I think it would be interesting to see what the stats really are based on where he caught the ball compared to where he was tackled. Short of the two long bombs where he was completely uncovered during the Washignton game, I can't think of any big plays that he made that would have run up his YPC that he didn't make a huge individual effort to gain yards (break tackles, shake off a defender, juke somebody, etc).

Marshall is a playmaker on the field whether people like him personally or not. I'm not saying he's irreplaceable and in our current scheme with our current QB it really doesn't matter because any WR can stand still and catch a pass, usually. I think in the right system, Marshall can be an impact player. I don't think his talents are fully put to use in the system we currently employ with the QB we currently employ (other than being a big target) so it won't be a huge loss when he leaves.

[weazel]

Jets or Ravens would be my guess. Anyone but Indy...

[dogfish]

I dont know if Gaffney's play today proves he can be a #1, but it certainly proves that the system creates the numbers. You could have had Lloyd in the #1 spot and the numbers would have been the same. Worked the same way in NE. When Brown and Givens were done...Moss and Welker stepped in.

huh?

i don't remember troy brown or david givens ever catching 23 TDs in a season. . . :lol:

[Poet]

Marshall is a top flight WR, but he isn't as good as some people here think or thought.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fizgerald and Calvin Johnson are the only WR's worth a first and a third, and those guys are all significantly better than Marshall. Yes, Calvin's numbers are worse, but when you factor in where he's playing it's obvious the dude is already better than Marshall.

[56crash]

I'm still not convinced that Shanny liked Marshall all that much.... Would he be willing to deal with him again?? If so, I think Wash is the likley home for B Marsh.

I hope he goes to some terrible 1-15 or 2-14 to team so he misses Denver. Oh wait.... he doest care about winning just $$$$$$$$$!!!!

I think Shanahan hated marshall

[CoachChaz]

huh?

i don't remember troy brown or david givens ever catching 23 TDs in a season. . . :lol:

No, but they were part of a pretty potent passing attack on the way to a SUper Bowl...which if I recall...NE didnt win when the TD records were set. Further proof that stats have limited meaning

[Poet]

No, but they were part of a pretty potent passing attack on the way to a SUper Bowl...which if I recall...NE didnt win when the TD records were set. Further proof that stats have limited meaning

It wasn't Moss' fault that they lost the SB. It was the offensive line and defense's fault, to be fair.

[topscribe]

It wasn't Moss' fault that they lost the SB. It was the offensive line and defense's fault, to be fair.

I think the bulk of the blame lay with the New York Giants . . .

-----

[CoachChaz]

I think the bulk of the blame lay with the New York Giants . . .

-----

Probably moreso the officiating, but my point is it doesnt require a 100 reception per year receiver to win a Super Bowl

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Probably moreso the officiating, but my point is it doesnt require a 100 reception per year receiver to win a Super Bowl

True, but it sure doesn't hurt your chances.

[topscribe]

True, but it sure doesn't hurt your chances.

Depends on who is that 100-per year receiver, doesn't it?

----

[lameduck33]

was the playcalling fault they lost the game. when they were running the ball they were doing good, but then they went to passing all over the field and thats why they lost, but anyway, nobody will give a 1st and 3rd for marshall, he is not wanted here and we will have to give him away for less.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Depends on who is that 100-per year receiver, doesn't it?

----

I don't think so. Short of being benched for the last game, that didn't make a difference anyway because both Baltimore and NY won, Marshall did nothing but help this team every week. He was our leading receiver by far and he kept us in a lot of games almost single handedly.

I'm not going to "good riddance" Marshall just yet. On the field, he's done nothing but try to keep us competitive.

[topscribe]

I don't think so. Short of being benched for the last game, that didn't make a difference anyway because both Baltimore and NY won, Marshall did nothing but help this team every week. He was our leading receiver by far and he kept us in a lot of games almost single handedly.

I'm not going to "good riddance" Marshall just yet. On the field, he's done nothing but try to keep us competitive.

So then, why have Moss and T.O. been jettisoned by various teams so many times?

A splendid, self-centered talent is not beneficial to the team . . .

-----

[CoachChaz]

I don't think so. Short of being benched for the last game, that didn't make a difference anyway because both Baltimore and NY won, Marshall did nothing but help this team every week. He was our leading receiver by far and he kept us in a lot of games almost single handedly.

I'm not going to "good riddance" Marshall just yet. On the field, he's done nothing but try to keep us competitive.

He was our leading receiver over the last 10 games...when we went 2-8. over the first 6 games, he was pretty much on par with Gaffney and Royal.

So when he was the go-to guy...we sucked.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So then, why have Moss and T.O. been jettisoned by various teams so many times?

A splendid, self-centered talent is not beneficial to the team . . .

-----

Well, except for the fact that both TO and Moss are responsible for getting their teams to a Superbowl. Both lost once there, but they got them there. Just the fact that those guys take the field once a week makes their offense better. Their talent level demands the best cover man (usually two guys) on the other team be dedicated to them. that frees up whoever is across from them. Marshall being here was no different.

Will they ever win "nice guy of the year" awards? No. But teams are still willing to pay top dollar for their services. It must be something...

[HORSEPOWER 56]

He was our leading receiver over the last 10 games...when we went 2-8. over the first 6 games, he was pretty much on par with Gaffney and Royal.

So when he was the go-to guy...we sucked.

You're right, we went 2-8, but like you guys are so willing to say about Orton instead of blaming him... Is Marshall playing Guard and run blocking? Can he pick up the blitz? Can he stop the run or cover WRs downfield? Maybe he can get sacks, turnovers, and force the other team into 3 and outs?

You can't blame Marshall for those losses if you don't blame Orton which you rarely do. The real question is, when the rest of the offense was floundering and not moving the ball, who was the only guy making plays? Who was the guy making great catches on poorly thrown balls then never going down on first contact?

just playing Devil's advocate here, Devil's advocate.

[topscribe]

Well, except for the fact that both TO and Moss are responsible for getting their teams to a Superbowl. Both lost once there, but they got them there. Just the fact that those guys take the field once a week makes their offense better. Their talent level demands the best cover man (usually two guys) on the other team be dedicated to them. that frees up whoever is across from them. Marshall being here was no different.

Will they ever win "nice guy of the year" awards? No. But teams are still willing to pay top dollar for their services. It must be something...

Those same teams went to the Super Bowl without them, too . . . and won it.

But I'm sure Marshall will get top dollar, too. More power to him.

Provided the Broncos get their draft choices . . .

-----

[CoachChaz]

You're right, we went 2-8, but like you guys are so willing to say about Orton instead of blaming him... Is Marshall playing Guard and run blocking? Can he pick up the blitz? Can he stop the run or cover WRs downfield? Maybe he can get sacks, turnovers, and force the other team into 3 and outs?

You can't blame Marshall for those losses if you don't blame Orton which you rarely do. The real question is, when the rest of the offense was floundering and not moving the ball, who was the only guy making plays? Who was the guy making great catches on poorly thrown balls then never going down on first contact?

just playing Devil's advocate here, Devil's advocate.

I agree. With limited time to pass, perhaps Orton did look Marshall's way more often than not. That being said...with more time to throw...does Marshall get 100 catches?

[G_Money]

Probably moreso the officiating, but my point is it doesnt require a 100 reception per year receiver to win a Super Bowl

100% agree with this. :salute:

But SOME talent most definitely is required. You don't HAVE to have a Great WR or a Great RB or a great QB or a Great pass rusher in order to win it all. But you do need to have some guys who ARE crazy-talented. If we don't have incredible defenders, or an incredible QB, or an incredible RB, AND we trade away our incredible WR, we'd better get back some of the former for him. More mediocrity will not help us.

Dropping the talent level on the team is not Plan A on the way to a championship. We'll see what we can turn Marshall into. But the odds of pulling a Hershel Walker deal are small.


He was our leading receiver over the last 10 games...when we went 2-8. over the first 6 games, he was pretty much on par with Gaffney and Royal.

So when he was the go-to guy...we sucked.

But did we become bad because Marshall became the go-to guy, or did Marshall become the go-to guy because our offense got figured out and Brandon was the only guy talented enough to still produce after that?

I have concerns about our inability to correct our offensive flaws in the 2nd half of the year. Trading Marshall isn't a curative for that problem by itself, but I'm interested to see what we can get for him and how we'll use those picks we receive.

~G

[CoachChaz]

100% agree with this. :salute:

But SOME talent most definitely is required. You don't HAVE to have a Great WR or a Great RB or a great QB or a Great pass rusher in order to win it all. But you do need to have some guys who ARE crazy-talented. If we don't have incredible defenders, or an incredible QB, or an incredible RB, AND we trade away our incredible WR, we'd better get back some of the former for him. More mediocrity will not help us.

Dropping the talent level on the team is not Plan A on the way to a championship. We'll see what we can turn Marshall into. But the odds of pulling a Hershel Walker deal are small.



But did we become bad because Marshall became the go-to guy, or did Marshall become the go-to guy because our offense got figured out and Brandon was the only guy talented enough to still produce after that?

I have concerns about our inability to correct our offensive flaws in the 2nd half of the year. Trading Marshall isn't a curative for that problem by itself, but I'm interested to see what we can get for him and how we'll use those picks we receive.

~G

I dont expect a Walker type deal, but I could see someone giving up a 1st and 3rd. Even then...as you said...the question is what we turn that into. Even if it was Suh and Dez Bryant...we wont have the answer immediately.

I think my point with the second half of the season is we got away from the team oriented ball we were playing early. I think we did become predictable and I believe teams may very well have simply went along with us throwing to marshall all day while stopping everything else. Like i said...when we were 6-0, the WR corps all had similar stats. After that...it was all marshall.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Those same teams went to the Super Bowl without them, too . . . and won it.

But I'm sure Marshall will get top dollar, too. More power to him.

Provided the Broncos get their draft choices . . .

-----

Philly went without TO? When? have they been back since he left?

[topscribe]

Philly went without TO? When? have they been back since he left?

I guess you should specify about whom you're talking.

I thought you were talking about San Francisco . . .

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I guess you should specify about whom you're talking.

I thought you were talking about San Francisco . . .

-----

Understandable, but San Fran hasn't been to the Superbowl since '95. Before TO was in the league.

[topscribe]

Understandable, but San Fran hasn't been to the Superbowl since '95. Before TO was in the league.

Well, there you go! :2thumbs:

-----

[bcbronc]

Philly went without TO? When? have they been back since he left?

You may want to go back and check how big a contribution TO had on Philly's Superbowl run. Iirc the Eagles lost the only post-season game TO played in that year.

[weazel]

So then, why have Moss and T.O. been jettisoned by various teams so many times?

A splendid, self-centered talent is not beneficial to the team . . .

-----

top, to be fair, Moss has been a model player since going to New England. I never would have guessed it, but he has matured into a pretty good team player.

I'm not arguing anyones posts in here as I haven'tread half of them.

[Northman]

There's a lot of talk of Bmroe still interested in Marshall. With Mason most likely retiring they will either go after Boldin or Marshall or draft a young receiver. But considering that they are a playoff team and closer to championship material i would guess they might take a shot at getting Brandon.

[Ravage!!!]

Understandable, but San Fran hasn't been to the Superbowl since '95. Before TO was in the league.

and they had some guy by the name of.. rice? Something like that.

[Nomad]

When can we shop Marshall and whoever else around??

[topscribe]

top, to be fair, Moss has been a model player since going to New England. I never would have guessed it, but he has matured into a pretty good team player.

I'm not arguing anyones posts in here as I haven'tread half of them.

I agree. I was basically talking about before then . . .

-----

[topscribe]

and they had some guy by the name of.. rice? Something like that.

Again, you made my point.

There is more than just Marshall around . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Again, you made my point.

There is more than just Marshall around . . .

-----

Uhhuh.. they are everywhere :coffee:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Marshall is a top flight WR, but he isn't as good as some people here think or thought.

Andre Johnson, Larry Fizgerald and Calvin Johnson are the only WR's worth a first and a third, and those guys are all significantly better than Marshall. Yes, Calvin's numbers are worse, but when you factor in where he's playing it's obvious the dude is already better than Marshall.

I HATE Marshall...but I think you're pretty wrong here. Dude is a beast. He is nasty after the catch and can bully most CBs for the rock. NO WR in this league is SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than Marshall.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Understandable, but San Fran hasn't been to the Superbowl since '95. Before TO was in the league.

...and TO never got Philly to the SB either.

He was hurt throughout the end of the season and the playoffs, remember? That's why there is a horsecollar rule.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'd trade him to the Rams for their #2, #3 and a future #2. They will be the first picks of the rounds and also won't be expensive to pay out. It will give us crazy draft flexibility. We could land a very good WR w/ pick #33...Brandon LaFell would likely be there...maybe even Golden Tate.

The Rams now have a stud which would make Donnie Avery, etc that much better and a badass RB in Jackson. W/ the #1 overall, they take a QB and their offense has been completely overhauled for the future. JMHO

[Poet]

Spags isn't going to want Marshall.

I think Baltimore is his likely landing spot, which is ironic to say the least.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'd be fine with that. They would pick late in round 1. I think we'd get a #1 and either a 3 or a future #2 from Bmore. They hafta think they are close. They wanna win NOW before Ray Ray and Ed get too old.

[dogfish]

I'd trade him to the Rams for their #2, #3 and a future #2. They will be the first picks of the rounds and also won't be expensive to pay out. It will give us crazy draft flexibility. We could land a very good WR w/ pick #33...Brandon LaFell would likely be there...maybe even Golden Tate.

The Rams now have a stud which would make Donnie Avery, etc that much better and a badass RB in Jackson. W/ the #1 overall, they take a QB and their offense has been completely overhauled for the future. JMHO

get 'em on the phone, smiley-- i'd weep like a small child if we could get that kind of haul out of this mess. . . and tate's my boy. . .

unfortunately, i do agree with bacon brain that spagnuolo doesn't really seem like the kind of coach who'd want to deal with brandon. . .

we'll see. . .

[HORSEPOWER 56]

get 'em on the phone, smiley-- i'd weep like a small child if we could get that kind of haul out of this mess. . . and tate's my boy. . .

unfortunately, i do agree with bacon brain that spagnuolo doesn't really seem like the kind of coach who'd want to deal with brandon. . .

we'll see. . .

After a 1-15 season, coaches tend to get desperate. Even Shanahan who for a long time had one of the classiest rosters (outside of Bill Romanowski, that is) in the league even reverted to the dark side to try to salvage some wins when the Broncos were struggling to make/win in the playoffs. Daryll Gardener, Dale Carter, Maurice Clarett, Travis Henry, etc. these guys should've never been brought in. they were a sign of desperation. Spags is lucky he's not out of a job, yet. A guy like Marshall might be just what he needs.

I don't think anyone will give up a 1 and 3 for Marshall after what happened to Dallas with the Roy Williams trade and Marshall's History, but I could see teams offering up a second rounder (and he's worth it) and probably a player or two to get Marshall. I'd take Haloti Ngata straight up!

Seriously, I could see the Ravens offering us a 2nd, 5th and Mark Clayton for Marshall and I probably would take it.

[dogfish]

After 1-15 seasons, coaches tend to get desperate. Even Shanahan who for a long time had one of the classiest rosters (outside of Bill Romanowski, that is) in the league even reverted to the dark side to try to salvage some wins when the Broncos were struggling to make/win in the playoffs. Daryll Gardener, Dale Carter, Maurice Clarett, Travis Henry, etc. these guys should've never been brought in. they were a sign of desperation. Spags is lucky he's not out of a job, yet. A guy like Marshall might be just what he needs.

that's a fair point, and it's actually one that i considered, but i still don't think it'll happen-- not saying that it won't, of course-- JMO. . . but spags is a defensive coach who wants to play a grind-it-out running game and get after the opposing quarterback. . . i just think wide receiver is going to be a ways down on his priority list compared to beefing up his own lines-- and if he did look that direction, i have a feeling he'd be more likely to look at anquan boldin, who despite some contract squabbles of his own is a higher character, higher work ethic individual than marshall. . . and quan should be available cheaper given his age, leaving them more resources to help fill their myriad of holes. . .

we'll see how it plays out, but i'll be surprised if st. louis tries to acquire marshall. . .

[Foochacho]

Watch Marshall go to the ravens next year and knock us out of the playoffs and win the sb. Just like sharpe did. Watching sharpe on another team knocking us out of the playoffs sucked ass. Gus Frerotte sucked ass too.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

that's a fair point, and it's actually one that i considered, but i still don't think it'll happen-- not saying that it won't, of course-- JMO. . . but spags is a defensive coach who wants to play a grind-it-out running game and get after the opposing quarterback. . . i just think wide receiver is going to be a ways down on his priority list compared to beefing up his own lines-- and if he did look that direction, i have a feeling he'd be more likely to look at anquan boldin, who despite some contract squabbles of his own is a higher character, higher work ethic individual than marshall. . . and quan should be available cheaper given his age, leaving them more resources to help fill their myriad of holes. . .

we'll see how it plays out, but i'll be surprised if st. louis tries to acquire marshall. . .

Nothing in the NFL surprises me anymore. For the second year in a row a rookie head coach has taken his team led by a rookie QB (not even a good one) to the playoffs. ******* Jets. :tsk:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Watch Marshall go to the ravens next year and knock us out of the playoffs and win the sb. Just like sharpe did. Watching sharpe on another team knocking us out of the playoffs sucked ass. Gus Frerotte sucked ass too.

Yes he did.

That was one of the few games that I really wish Griese could've suited up for us. We probably would've won it.

[JDL]

When Ryan Harris returns and we shore up LG... we'll be fine... even with Casey for another year (no rookie Center is coming in and taking his job.) We were fine when we had Harris and Kuper working together... POlumbus ... sucked @ss (I still remember people here admiring the job he was doing.) strange.

[WARHORSE]

When Ryan Harris returns and we shore up LG... we'll be fine... even with Casey for another year (no rookie Center is coming in and taking his job.) We were fine when we had Harris and Kuper working together... POlumbus ... sucked @ss (I still remember people here admiring the job he was doing.) strange.

Sorry. But Wiegs got ATE UP this year.

And I mean EATEN ALIVE.

If it werent for his mental ability, he would have been sat down long ago imo.

I dont think he could drive a good LBer off the line.


He will make a good mentor to a youngster, and he will be a first class backup in his last year. First four or five games, he looked good.

After that, he simply began to wear down and feel his age.

LG and C are both positions that HAVE to be taken care of.

In actuality, Polumbus may be better suited to play inside this coming season, and being a tackle backup after that. Polumbus would be a great guard imo, without having to worry about speed rushers.

I like Polumbus, and know he can get stronger. If he can show the coaches that he can play guard, lets hope thats what happens.

[JDL]

Sorry. But Wiegs got ATE UP this year.

And I mean EATEN ALIVE.

If it werent for his mental ability, he would have been sat down long ago imo.

I dont think he could drive a good LBer off the line.


He will make a good mentor to a youngster, and he will be a first class backup in his last year. First four or five games, he looked good.

After that, he simply began to wear down and feel his age.

LG and C are both positions that HAVE to be taken care of.

In actuality, Polumbus may be better suited to play inside this coming season, and being a tackle backup after that. Polumbus would be a great guard imo, without having to worry about speed rushers.

I like Polumbus, and know he can get stronger. If he can show the coaches that he can play guard, lets hope thats what happens.

It's going to be hard to find a better replacement ... good centers tend to get locked up and that is too much for a rookie to handle honestly. I'm fairly certain unless someone turns up in free agency that he is our starting center opening day next year, like it or not.

[WARHORSE]

It's going to be hard to find a better replacement ... good centers tend to get locked up and that is too much for a rookie to handle honestly. I'm fairly certain unless someone turns up in free agency that he is our starting center opening day next year, like it or not.

Nick Mangold not only did it as a rookie, he excelled. Still kickin butt to this day.

Perhaps we could be so lucky this year.

[dogfish]

if kris o'dowd comes out, i think he's a guy who could start right away. . . i don't know enough about tennant to say. . . it's not unheard of for one of the OGs to handle making the line calls for a while if a team's breaking in a new center and don't think he's up to the added responsibility. . .

[SOCALORADO.]

if kris o'dowd comes out, i think he's a guy who could start right away. . . i don't know enough about tennant to say. . . it's not unheard of for one of the OGs to handle making the line calls for a while if a team's breaking in a new center and don't think he's up to the added responsibility. . .

Theres 3 really good Centers in this years draft who could start right away.
Chris O'Dowd USC
Stefen Wiseinewski Penn St
Matt Tennant BC

All 3 would be an immediate upgrade.
Also, if DEN were to go out and sign FA Logan Mankins, it would also help a new rookie center transition to the Pros, having a top notch guard like him right next to him, and Kuper on the other side. After waching the LSU/Penn St bowl game, i think Wiseinewski is a better center than O'Dowd.

Eric Olsen ND, is a huge Center as well, and could be a option.

[CoachChaz]

Tennant is the only guy I'd shy away from. His size is really no better than Casey's.

But, I'd welcome O'Dowd, Wisniewski or Olsen

[Medford Bronco]

Depends on who is that 100-per year receiver, doesn't it?

----

It helped when it was Eddie Mac and Rod Smith but when we won Super Bowls it was on them and obviously TD, Elway and Sharpe.

This team does not even remotely have that.. Marshall is the Best WR and he is as good as them on the field but as a citzen....not even close. They were not ME players. Marshall should watch that 1998 team and maybe he would learn something.........

My biggest memories of them were the block Eddie Mack laid out Seth Joyner that was (or is) in SeeingReds sig to spring a great play by TD or Howard Griffith and Elway getting killed on the helicopter play. Imagine if that ever happened to most Qbs today (not all), They would have been broken in half and probably fumbled.

its a team brandon, if you want to be an individual play tennis or golf.

[Dean]

It helped when it was Eddie Mac and Rod Smith but when we won Super Bowls it was on them and obviously TD, Elway and Sharpe.

This team does not even remotely have that.. Marshall is the Best WR and he is as good as them on the field but as a citzen....not even close. They were not ME players. Marshall should watch that 1998 team and maybe he would learn something.........

My biggest memories of them were the block Eddie Mack laid out Seth Joyner that was (or is) in SeeingReds sig to spring a great play by TD or Howard Griffith and Elway getting killed on the helicopter play. Imagine if that ever happened to most Qbs today (not all), They would have been broken in half and probably fumbled.

its a team brandon, if you want to be an individual play tennis or golf.

With time we forget. I love me some Rod Smith but he did have some citizenship problems early in his career.

I am not Marshall's fan boi but he is a very good blocker.

IMO most QBs today would slide feet first and not make it. Many of the others are statues and don't have the athleticism Elway had even at that late stage in his career. They also would come up short.