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rcsodak
01-03-2010, 12:40 PM
Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels decided to bench wide receiver Brandon Marshall for the regular-season finale after he was late to a scheduled therapy session with the Denver medical staff for treatment of a hamstring injury the team already believed he was exaggerating, according to multiple team sources.

Both Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler have been advised they will not be permitted on the sideline or in the locker room when the Broncos play the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday in a game with playoff implications.



The Broncos sent Marshall for an MRI on his hamstring after he complained of the injury during Wednesday's practice. According to team sources, the test indicated that Marshall's hamstring was healthy.

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe.

Then, as the team reviewed tape of its loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, in which Marshall dropped several passes, McDaniels mentioned that certain plays had to be made. Marshall apparently felt he was being unfairly singled out for criticism.

According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, DJ Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

That development, combined with a home loss to the Raiders, compelled McDaniels to emphasize the need for accountability in a full team meeting Wednesday. It was later that day when Marshall complained about his hamstring.

Scheffler was presumably demoted to the scout team after he was overheard telling teammates that he couldn't wait for Denver's season to end.

The Broncos do not think it's a coincidence that Marshall became a distraction almost immediately after achieving several personal goals, including having another 100-catch season and making the Pro Bowl. McDaniels has been implementing a team-first mentality similar to that he experienced while part of Bill Belichick's staff with the three-time Super Bowl champion New England Patriots.

It's possible Marshall has played his last game with the Broncos, sources close to the situation told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. Marshall is scheduled to be a free agent this offseason, and will be a restricted free agent if next season is uncapped, as is expected.

In an uncapped year, the Broncos would be expected to tender Marshall at the highest level possible -- one worth a first- and third-round draft choice. If another team signed Marshall to an offer sheet, Denver would have seven days to match it. If Denver opted not to match the offer -- and the Broncos have shown little inclination of signing him to a long-term deal -- then Marshall would become the other teams' property and Denver would get back first- and third-round draft choices.

Because Marshall would be a free agent, Denver could not trade Marshall without his signing an offer sheet with another team.

Ed Werder is an NFL reporter for ESPN. ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter contributed to this report.

underrated29
01-03-2010, 12:46 PM
So- for the draft gurus- look for us to get balts first rd pick, and 3rd. We will once again have two 1sts.

Nomad
01-03-2010, 12:48 PM
So- for the draft gurus- look for us to get balts first rd pick, and 3rd. We will once again have two 1sts.

Marshall better keep his nose clean there because Lewis and a few others will take care of him....in house!!

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 12:50 PM
So- for the draft gurus- look for us to get balts first rd pick, and 3rd. We will once again have two 1sts.

Claussen! :lol::elefant:

I doubt Marshall will bring that kind of return, though. The broncos can choose to trade him for much less if they want to and aren't getting that kind of offer. We might see a first rounder for him, but i'd be more willing to believe a 2nd and a 5th or something seeing as how Marshall has a history of off the field issues.

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 12:53 PM
Claussen! :lol::elefant:

I doubt Marshall will bring that kind of return, though. The broncos can choose to trade him for much less if they want to and aren't getting that kind of offer. We might see a first rounder for him, but i'd be more willing to believe a 2nd and a 5th or something seeing as how Marshall has a history of off the field issues.

It's not about trading him. It's about tendering him as an RFA with a 1st and a 3rd. If someone wants a WR bad enough, it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone give up those picks and sign him.

rcsodak
01-03-2010, 12:58 PM
So- for the draft gurus- look for us to get balts first rd pick, and 3rd. We will once again have two 1sts.

But....but.....but......Pat is broke!!!!!! Denver is Bankrupt!!!!! The team will SURELY trade one of them for a bunch of 2's/3's!!!!!!!

:eek:

underrated29
01-03-2010, 12:59 PM
Bingo!


We give him the highest rd tender. Its a win win for us. We either keep him or we trade him for a 1st and 3rd--I suspect Balt would go for it easily. They have a shot- however a long shot at dez bryant, but there is no guarantee he will pan out. And Derek Mason tried to retire this year, but got talked into coming back...I doubt he will do that again this year.

rcsodak
01-03-2010, 01:01 PM
Bingo!


We give him the highest rd tender. Its a win win for us. We either keep him or we trade him for a 1st and 3rd--I suspect Balt would go for it easily. They have a shot- however a long shot at dez bryant, but there is no guarantee he will pan out. And Derek Mason tried to retire this year, but got talked into coming back...I doubt he will do that again this year.

If Denver is stupid enough to trade a PB WR to an in-conference foe, then they are stupid.

NFC or nothing.

We've all seen what happens when you go to the 'black n blue' conference. ie cutler/porti$$

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 01:04 PM
It's not about trading him. It's about tendering him as an RFA with a 1st and a 3rd. If someone wants a WR bad enough, it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone give up those picks and sign him.

But the tender really doesn't mean anything. The Broncos can pull that tender at any time and take what others give. If nobody offers a first and third, the Broncos can just go with the best offer. If not, we're just stuck with all the McD/Marshall drama for another season. I doubt McD will even let him dress on gameday. It'll be a Philly/TO situation all over again. Marshall will eventually leave and we'll get NOTHING in return. TO sure didn't have a problem finding work after Philly, did he? Marshall knows this. Regardless of what you think of him, someone will want him. the problem is, his value is less. We won't get a 1st and 3rd for him. Maybe a 1st. I'm thinking a 2nd. It's happened too many times before.

Nomad
01-03-2010, 01:07 PM
If Denver is stupid enough to trade a PB WR to an in-conference foe, then they are stupid.

NFC or nothing.

We've all seen what happens when you go to the 'black n blue' conference. ie cutler/porti$$

Yeah, it would be a dumb move to trade him to an in conference team!!

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 01:08 PM
But....but.....but......Pat is broke!!!!!! Denver is Bankrupt!!!!! The team will SURELY trade one of them for a bunch of 2's/3's!!!!!!!

:eek:

Nobody said anything about being broke... Look at the history of trades involving high-talent players with issues. Typically, their street value drops and teams NEVER get what they are asking. Hell, nobody was willing to give up a 1st for Julius Peppers last year! The highest the Pats offered was a second round pick!

rcsodak
01-03-2010, 01:21 PM
Nobody said anything about being broke... Look at the history of trades involving high-talent players with issues. Typically, their street value drops and teams NEVER get what they are asking. Hell, nobody was willing to give up a 1st for Julius Peppers last year! The highest the Pats offered was a second round pick!

Oh? REALLY?

I bet it wouldn't be hard at all to find where certain posters said as much. Like that being the reasoning behind trading Denver's 1st rounder this year for ASmith?

Hmmmm....in fact, didn't YOU say something to that effect? :confused:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 01:26 PM
Oh? REALLY?

I bet it wouldn't be hard at all to find where certain posters said as much. Like that being the reasoning behind trading CHI's 1st rounder this year for ASmith?

Hmmmm....in fact, didn't YOU say something to that effect? :confused:

I don't give a damn about what some armchair GMs say. I've never given a crap about our supposed "cap space" especially in what looks like an "uncapped year". I don't control the money and i don't care what contracts these guy get. If we want a player, we can afford him. it's that simple.

BTW, it was our 1st rounder we traded to get Smith. Not Chicago's

Fan in Exile
01-03-2010, 02:38 PM
If Detroit can get a first and third for Roy Williams we can get that for Marshall.

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 02:41 PM
[/B]
According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, DJ Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.


Who cares what guys like Dawkins and Bailey think of. Who are they ? They're nobody's.

CLearly Marshall and Scheffler are the true inspirations of this team, and their playoff less tenure as a Denver Bronco.

Dzone
01-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels decided to bench wide receiver Brandon Marshall for the regular-season finale after he was late to a scheduled therapy session with the Denver medical staff for treatment of a hamstring injury the team already believed he was exaggerating, according to multiple team sources.

Both Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler have been advised they will not be permitted on the sideline or in the locker room when the Broncos play the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday in a game with playoff implications.



The Broncos sent Marshall for an MRI on his hamstring after he complained of the injury during Wednesday's practice. According to team sources, the test indicated that Marshall's hamstring was healthy.

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe.

Then, as the team reviewed tape of its loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, in which Marshall dropped several passes, McDaniels mentioned that certain plays had to be made. Marshall apparently felt he was being unfairly singled out for criticism.

According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, DJ Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

That development, combined with a home loss to the Raiders, compelled McDaniels to emphasize the need for accountability in a full team meeting Wednesday. It was later that day when Marshall complained about his hamstring.

Scheffler was presumably demoted to the scout team after he was overheard telling teammates that he couldn't wait for Denver's season to end.

The Broncos do not think it's a coincidence that Marshall became a distraction almost immediately after achieving several personal goals, including having another 100-catch season and making the Pro Bowl. McDaniels has been implementing a team-first mentality similar to that he experienced while part of Bill Belichick's staff with the three-time Super Bowl champion New England Patriots.

It's possible Marshall has played his last game with the Broncos, sources close to the situation told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. Marshall is scheduled to be a free agent this offseason, and will be a restricted free agent if next season is uncapped, as is expected.

In an uncapped year, the Broncos would be expected to tender Marshall at the highest level possible -- one worth a first- and third-round draft choice. If another team signed Marshall to an offer sheet, Denver would have seven days to match it. If Denver opted not to match the offer -- and the Broncos have shown little inclination of signing him to a long-term deal -- then Marshall would become the other teams' property and Denver would get back first- and third-round draft choices.

Because Marshall would be a free agent, Denver could not trade Marshall without his signing an offer sheet with another team.

Ed Werder is an NFL reporter for ESPN. ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter contributed to this report.

Interesting article. Thanks. Obviously, McD isnt the only one to blame here. Sounds like BMarsh was putting on his diva wig again. Oh well. He is no doubt another TO and ochocinco.

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Interesting article. Thanks. Obviously, McD isnt the only one to blame here. Sounds like BMarsh was putting on his diva wig again. Oh well. He is no doubt another TO and ochocinco.

Sorry but you can't but ochocinco in that class at all. He doesn't cause locker room trouble, he just has his celebrations.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 02:55 PM
Sorry but you can't but ochocinco in that class at all. He doesn't cause locker room trouble, he just has his celebrations.

Really? WTF happened last year when he kept demanding a trade and eventually got benched? Was that excessive celebration?

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 02:59 PM
Really? WTF happened last year when he kept demanding a trade and eventually got benched? Was that excessive celebration?

A one time incident in his entire career. Not a pattern of behavior at all.

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 03:00 PM
Ochocinco has very much been a cancer in the lockerroom.

He's been quiet this year because they have been winning.

Carson palmer can attest for that.

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 03:01 PM
Ochocinco has very much been a cancer in the lockerroom.

He's been quiet this year because they have been winning.

Carson palmer can attest for that.

He was quite and a model citizen this offseason before they had played one game.

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 03:02 PM
A one time incident in his entire career. Not a pattern of behavior at all.

Every year of consistent calling out his QB, not showing up for meetings, not getting to camp on time, causing distractions to your teammates, celebrating TD's at the expense of 15 yard penaltys for his "me" show.....no, not a pattern at all.

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 03:02 PM
He was quite and a model citizen this offseason before they had played one game.

And how long has he been in the NFL?

Sorry, anyone a fan of the NFL can tell you he is very much a lockerroom cancer.

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 03:03 PM
Every year of consistent calling out his QB, not showing up for meetings, not getting to camp on time, causing distractions to your teammates, celebrating TD's at the expense of 15 yard penaltys for his "me" show.....no, not a pattern at all.
He has not called out palmer every year. That's just a lie.

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 03:06 PM
He has not called out palmer every year. That's just a lie.

You got me. Not every year. More like every 2 out of 3 years.

Brand
01-03-2010, 03:23 PM
Who cares what guys like Dawkins and Bailey think of. Who are they ? They're nobody's.

CLearly Marshall and Scheffler are the true inspirations of this team, and their playoff less tenure as a Denver Bronco.

See, it's posts like this that just confuses the h3ll out of the bewildered.....

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 03:25 PM
See, it's posts like this that just confuses the h3ll out of the bewildered.....

Choose a side. That's what's happening here.

Bailey and Dawkins and other veterans asked for a harder stance from McD's in these clownish acts by Shanahans guys. It stems back to Cutler, when Dawkins told Cutler to keep his mouth shut and Cutler wouldn't listen.

Meanwhile, coach killer Cutler will likely be going into next season with his 3rd HC in as many years.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Interesting article. Thanks. Obviously, McD isnt the only one to blame here. Sounds like BMarsh was putting on his diva wig again. Oh well. He is no doubt another TO and ochocinco.

If this is true - there should be ZERO blame on Coach McDaniels. He met with the team captains - OBVIOUSLY to get their opinions on the situation, and based on their opinions/resolution, he put that in place.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 03:45 PM
If this is true - there should be ZERO blame on Coach McDaniels. He met with the team captains - OBVIOUSLY to get their opinions on the situation, and based on their opinions/resolution, he put that in place.

Obviously.

Why then did he talk to the media? That was a spiteful, "I'll show you what a badass I am", response to Marshall. Other than keeping it house, he's decided made us the mockery of the sports world again. Just like he did after the Cutler trade and just like he did after smack talking SD players before a game where we got DEMOLISHED.

It's going to happen again today if we lose to KC at home especially if we can't score points. He's going to look like a fool and a child that can't keep his emotions in check and makes rash decisions. It doesn't matter what the truth is. He's embarrassed MY team and YOURS. Now he'll just continue to embarrass us. Do you think Bellicheat would get away with so much of his arrogance and BS if he wasn't winning? If he was missing the playoffs? No. Folks would've gotten tired of him a long time ago. McD's childish BS only works if you're winning. When you don't, you just look like a spoiled brat who won't take responsibility for your actions no matter what the real story is. Winners get to write the headlines, losers get stuck reading what is written about them. Right now, we're the latter.

Northman
01-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Why then did he talk to the media? That was a spiteful, .

Whats more spiteful? To pretend that you buy into a coache's philosphy and rasie your stock for personal gain or too tell the media that you think said player is not really as hurt as he is and needs him to play an important game?

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 03:57 PM
Whats more spiteful? To pretend that you buy into a coache's philosphy and rasie your stock for personal gain or too tell the media that you think said player is not really as hurt as he is and needs him to play an important game?

The latter. McD's the LEADER of this TEAM. Marshall is one player. Everyone already knows what they get with him. McD embarrassed the FRANCHISE with his remarks. It makes it look like if he has a problem controlling his team (which is his job as the HC) that he'll just play the media angle to discredit the guy. It's become a goddamned smear campaign against Marshall. A personality contest. The Broncos don't need that shit around and no matter what people report now, it will affect the locker room. Bank it.

I DO believe that McD went to the Captains and asked for input. I'd bet my paycheck they didn't expect the results of that meeting to go PUBLIC! If I were them, I'd be pissed at McDaniels for betraying my trust in a closed door meeting and crucifying one of my teammates in public!

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 04:01 PM
McD embarrassed the FRANCHISE with his remarks.

Him and Marshall apparently have something in common.

And this is the one time he came forward to the public. Let's not sit here and pretend he was doing it the entire season, especially after the Cutler fiasco, when he kept that entirely in house. And Cutler didn't.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-03-2010, 04:13 PM
Timeline - Coach met with the captains on Monday - this in itself tells you something happened that he wanted to get their opinions on. Wednesday - Marshall acts like he pulled his hamstring - an MRI shows nothing - Thursday - Marshall will not practice. First question in Friday's presser was if Marshall would play. So, it sounds like some on here feel that McDaniels SHOULD have LIED, and stated that he was injured - FULLY knowing that he was not injured. Just possibly, Coach NOT stating the TRUTH may have upset the team captains - their preference may have been for the TRUTH to come out - so Coach McDaniels stated - no, he will be deactivated - Coach's decision, to NOT expose that the team captain's weighed in on the decision.

ursamajor
01-03-2010, 04:51 PM
If Denver is stupid enough to trade a PB WR to an in-conference foe, then they are stupid.

NFC or nothing.

We've all seen what happens when you go to the 'black n blue' conference. ie cutler/porti$$

28 tds

Dzone
01-03-2010, 05:38 PM
The latter. McD's the LEADER of this TEAM. Marshall is one player. Everyone already knows what they get with him. McD embarrassed the FRANCHISE with his remarks. It makes it look like if he has a problem controlling his team (which is his job as the HC) that he'll just play the media angle to discredit the guy. It's become a goddamned smear campaign against Marshall. A personality contest. The Broncos don't need that shit around and no matter what people report now, it will affect the locker room. Bank it.

I DO believe that McD went to the Captains and asked for input. I'd bet my paycheck they didn't expect the results of that meeting to go PUBLIC! If I were them, I'd be pissed at McDaniels for betraying my trust in a closed door meeting and crucifying one of my teammates in public!
Mcdaniels is a work in progress. He is still going through "on the job" training. Give him a few seasons and he will show some maturity. I mean, wasnt that the whole idea in hiring a coach with no HC experience? In the meantime, we should be patient and let this guy figure out how to be a head coach. :laugh:

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 06:19 PM
Mcdaniels is a work in progress. He is still going through "on the job" training. Give him a few seasons and he will show some maturity. I mean, wasnt that the whole idea in hiring a coach with no HC experience? In the meantime, we should be patient and let this guy figure out how to be a head coach. :laugh:

I agree with your point of "on the job" training. But hey, if I can get an 8-8 or a 9-7 season for my head coach to get on the job training, 'd take it in a heartbeat and twice on Sunday. And to think people here were happy with Shanahan's "fully trained" 8-8 and 9-7 seasons.

McDaniels is going to be such a great head coach someday it's going to be scary.

Dean
01-03-2010, 07:34 PM
I agree with your point of "on the job" training. But hey, if I can get an 8-8 or a 9-7 season for my head coach to get on the job training, 'd take it in a heartbeat and twice on Sunday. And to think people here were happy with Shanahan's "fully trained" 8-8 and 9-7 seasons.

McDaniels is going to be such a great head coach someday it's going to be scary.

On the job training attampts to improve performance by changing choices and actions that lead to negative outcomes. Did you see those changes or improvements?

I am not trying to single you out individually but I keep seeing this concept stated by fans. I can not say that I saw him change or grow. He believes in a system and won't alter it.

Next year, we will see if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Right now it doesn't look good but who knows :noidea: he has the excuse that he is a rookie head coach (though he is not a rookie signal caller).

rcsodak
01-03-2010, 07:40 PM
The latter. McD's the LEADER of this TEAM. Marshall is one player. Everyone already knows what they get with him. McD embarrassed the FRANCHISE with his remarks. It makes it look like if he has a problem controlling his team (which is his job as the HC) that he'll just play the media angle to discredit the guy. It's become a goddamned smear campaign against Marshall. A personality contest. The Broncos don't need that shit around and no matter what people report now, it will affect the locker room. Bank it.

I DO believe that McD went to the Captains and asked for input. I'd bet my paycheck they didn't expect the results of that meeting to go PUBLIC! If I were them, I'd be pissed at McDaniels for betraying my trust in a closed door meeting and crucifying one of my teammates in public!

You sure do ASSUME alot. :coffee:

Your Shanny is showing.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 07:57 PM
You sure do ASSUME alot. :coffee:

Your Shanny is showing.

You ASSUME even more believing everything you read that bashes Marshall and supports McD.

I hope my Shanny shows a little... he's a future HOFer, and an important part of this team's history. Saying that is like saying "your Elway is showing", or "your Rod Smith is showing"

Damn rc, you're really hurting my feelings...:coffee:

Ravage!!!
01-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Unnamed sources.. yeah.. Oooooh Kay.

Un-names sources say that the PLAYERS wanted Marshall benched going into the game. Great.. so not only do know we have IDIOT coach, we know we have some IDIOT players (captains) as well.

Ravage!!!
01-03-2010, 08:32 PM
How many times is rc going to use that lame "your shanny is showing" line? Does he think its that funny? Whats the over-under on that?

claymore
01-03-2010, 08:33 PM
How many times is rc going to us that lame "your shanny is showing" line? Does he think its that funny? Whats the over-under on that?

I always took it as a compliment, so I could hear it all day. :D

Ravage!!!
01-03-2010, 08:33 PM
The latter. McD's the LEADER of this TEAM. Marshall is one player. Everyone already knows what they get with him. McD embarrassed the FRANCHISE with his remarks. It makes it look like if he has a problem controlling his team (which is his job as the HC) that he'll just play the media angle to discredit the guy. It's become a goddamned smear campaign against Marshall. A personality contest. The Broncos don't need that shit around and no matter what people report now, it will affect the locker room. Bank it.

I DO believe that McD went to the Captains and asked for input. I'd bet my paycheck they didn't expect the results of that meeting to go PUBLIC! If I were them, I'd be pissed at McDaniels for betraying my trust in a closed door meeting and crucifying one of my teammates in public!


Great points. You are 100% right.

Ravage!!!
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
28 tds

I'd take Cutler back in a friggin heartbeat.

Ravage!!!
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
I always took it as a compliment, so I could hear it all day. :D

Good point... I'll wear it with a badge of honor.

LordTrychon
01-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Honestly... I had my doubts about the captains asking for this...

But I was hoping that maybe there was some truth, since the Marshall situation looks unlikely to be repairable.

I was hoping that it would be a precursor to the team coming out and playing with heart today.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Good point... I'll wear it with a badge of honor.

Me too, me too!

There, I fixed my sig!

horsepig
01-03-2010, 08:46 PM
So- for the draft gurus- look for us to get balts first rd pick, and 3rd. We will once again have two 1sts.

Boy, right now, I'd take that deal and start trying to build a receiving corps like the Sparklers'. All 6'5" and fast. Copycat league you know.

Ravage!!!
01-03-2010, 08:47 PM
By Dave Krieger

On the bright side, players aren't pulling guns on each other in the locker room. The Broncos are clearly less dysfunctional than the Washington Wizards. So they've got that going for them.

On the other hand, they end the season pretty much as they started it, with a young coach who says he's all about team unity and manages to wreak havoc anyway.

For the first time, players are publicly acknowledging a division in the locker room. Tight end Tony Scheffler, deactivated along with receiver Brandon Marshall for today's regular-season finale, said the move "doesn't sit very well with me or some of my teammates."

Meanwhile, first-year coach Josh McDaniels insists that a team without Marshall and Scheffler gives the Broncos their "best opportunity to win" today, an analysis so dubious from a football standpoint that it suggests McDaniels would rather lose with players loyal to him than win with players who are not.

The locker room appears to have broken into two camps — the roughly 60 percent of the roster McDaniels brought in and the roughly 40 percent remaining from last season. McDaniels has now feuded publicly with Marshall, Scheffler and former quarterback Jay Cutler, while substantially reducing the roles of Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Peyton Hillis and Ben Hamilton, all holdovers from the Mike Shanahan regime.

Unfortunately for McDaniels, the best players on the team are mostly Shanahan holdovers. Of the six Broncos named Pro Bowl starters, reserves or alternates, five were here when McDaniels arrived. As he makes the case that his acquisitions — players such as Jabar Gaffney and Knowshon Moreno — give the Broncos their best chance to win, fans who actually watch the games begin to wonder if this is about ability or favoritism.

McDaniels has gone to great lengths, for example, to rationalize Moreno's declining production by blaming an offensive line dominated by Shanahan holdovers, even as other backs exceed Moreno's per-carry averages behind the same line.

The rift with Marshall, the team's most productive offensive player, is of the old-school variety. The coach wants the player to play through a hamstring injury after an MRI showed no major damage. The player, who submitted in a similar situation last season and wound up needing hip surgery, says he can't.

McDaniels chose to escalate this dispute by publicly questioning Marshall's injury. This reflects a rather dramatic double standard on the subject of team unity.

Last summer, Stokley criticized the treatment of long snapper Mike Leach, whom McDaniels cut for no apparent reason other than to bring in his own guy. Scheffler was unhappy with McDaniels' treatment of Cutler. Both players have been on the outs with their coach since, a status reflected in their decreased role in the offense.

In short, under McDaniels, criticism of the coach is destructive of team unity, but criticism of a top player is not.

In response, Marshall suggested McDaniels is seeking scapegoats for his team's collapse since starting the season 6-0. No one in the locker room would have said so publicly had McDaniels not opened the door with his shots at Marshall.

The upside of this divisive strategy for McDaniels is if the Broncos get past the 3-12 Chiefs today, it will be mostly his guys getting it done.

McDaniels' double standard is fairly typical of NFL coaches, but he has made his retribution against those he considers disloyal more visible than most.

It appears now that Marshall played McDaniels during the season. His public hugs of the coach, which so delighted McDaniels, were interpreted by some as a victory for McDaniels' stern discipline in training camp. In retrospect, they look more like Marshall understanding exactly what it took to get back in McDaniels' good graces long enough to put up another 100-catch season, which he did. Now, with the season unraveling, so is the pretense of any loyalty between them.

McDaniels' approach can work if he wins. There have been lots of autocratic NFL coaches, some of them very successful. But in order to win with players loyal to him, McDaniels is going to have to pick better players. Except for 36-year-old safety Brian Dawkins, few of McDaniels' 30-odd additions to the roster have turned heads this year.

He has little choice now but to clear out more of the Shanahan holdovers this offseason in an effort to make the entire locker room "his guys." It seems increasingly clear that it is not so much loyalty to the Broncos that Josh McDaniels requires as it is loyalty to Josh McDaniels.

MasterShake
01-03-2010, 08:53 PM
I'd take Cutler back in a friggin heartbeat.

That's like seeing a hot woman and saying, "I'd do her..."

The question is, would she do YOU? :)

horsepig
01-03-2010, 08:56 PM
Interesting read. Krieger makes some valid points, points which will inspire endless discussion from now on.

getlynched47
01-03-2010, 09:03 PM
By Dave Krieger

On the bright side, players aren't pulling guns on each other in the locker room. The Broncos are clearly less dysfunctional than the Washington Wizards. So they've got that going for them.

On the other hand, they end the season pretty much as they started it, with a young coach who says he's all about team unity and manages to wreak havoc anyway.

For the first time, players are publicly acknowledging a division in the locker room. Tight end Tony Scheffler, deactivated along with receiver Brandon Marshall for today's regular-season finale, said the move "doesn't sit very well with me or some of my teammates."

Meanwhile, first-year coach Josh McDaniels insists that a team without Marshall and Scheffler gives the Broncos their "best opportunity to win" today, an analysis so dubious from a football standpoint that it suggests McDaniels would rather lose with players loyal to him than win with players who are not.

The locker room appears to have broken into two camps — the roughly 60 percent of the roster McDaniels brought in and the roughly 40 percent remaining from last season. McDaniels has now feuded publicly with Marshall, Scheffler and former quarterback Jay Cutler, while substantially reducing the roles of Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Peyton Hillis and Ben Hamilton, all holdovers from the Mike Shanahan regime.

Unfortunately for McDaniels, the best players on the team are mostly Shanahan holdovers. Of the six Broncos named Pro Bowl starters, reserves or alternates, five were here when McDaniels arrived. As he makes the case that his acquisitions — players such as Jabar Gaffney and Knowshon Moreno — give the Broncos their best chance to win, fans who actually watch the games begin to wonder if this is about ability or favoritism.

McDaniels has gone to great lengths, for example, to rationalize Moreno's declining production by blaming an offensive line dominated by Shanahan holdovers, even as other backs exceed Moreno's per-carry averages behind the same line.

The rift with Marshall, the team's most productive offensive player, is of the old-school variety. The coach wants the player to play through a hamstring injury after an MRI showed no major damage. The player, who submitted in a similar situation last season and wound up needing hip surgery, says he can't.

McDaniels chose to escalate this dispute by publicly questioning Marshall's injury. This reflects a rather dramatic double standard on the subject of team unity.

Last summer, Stokley criticized the treatment of long snapper Mike Leach, whom McDaniels cut for no apparent reason other than to bring in his own guy. Scheffler was unhappy with McDaniels' treatment of Cutler. Both players have been on the outs with their coach since, a status reflected in their decreased role in the offense.

In short, under McDaniels, criticism of the coach is destructive of team unity, but criticism of a top player is not.

In response, Marshall suggested McDaniels is seeking scapegoats for his team's collapse since starting the season 6-0. No one in the locker room would have said so publicly had McDaniels not opened the door with his shots at Marshall.

The upside of this divisive strategy for McDaniels is if the Broncos get past the 3-12 Chiefs today, it will be mostly his guys getting it done.

McDaniels' double standard is fairly typical of NFL coaches, but he has made his retribution against those he considers disloyal more visible than most.

It appears now that Marshall played McDaniels during the season. His public hugs of the coach, which so delighted McDaniels, were interpreted by some as a victory for McDaniels' stern discipline in training camp. In retrospect, they look more like Marshall understanding exactly what it took to get back in McDaniels' good graces long enough to put up another 100-catch season, which he did. Now, with the season unraveling, so is the pretense of any loyalty between them.

McDaniels' approach can work if he wins. There have been lots of autocratic NFL coaches, some of them very successful. But in order to win with players loyal to him, McDaniels is going to have to pick better players. Except for 36-year-old safety Brian Dawkins, few of McDaniels' 30-odd additions to the roster have turned heads this year.

He has little choice now but to clear out more of the Shanahan holdovers this offseason in an effort to make the entire locker room "his guys." It seems increasingly clear that it is not so much loyalty to the Broncos that Josh McDaniels requires as it is loyalty to Josh McDaniels.



Basically, Josh McDaniels will never admit he is wrong. He plays favorites.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-03-2010, 09:41 PM
My youngest son called me on his way home from the game, and I started to tell him about this article (posted in Post #1), and he said he read it online. Then he said he was listening to Rod Mackey (Ch 9 sports) Wednesday night, and could not figure out why Rod said "wouldn't you know it, Marshall pulled his hamstring just right after the tv cameras started rolling at practice today".

Quite a coincidence, or good timing - one of the two.

Also, the following was posted in today's Denver Post, and also online:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_14112328

Movers and shakers get in the game at Shanahan's

"It was the first New Year's Eve for the swank new watering hole Shanahan's — and for those of a certain age and income, it was the place to be.

Brandon Marshall (sitting out today's game) was sitting down with Elvis Dumervil."

So, I am thinking - well, both of their contracts are up this year, and with all of the different places they could have been to on New Year's Eve - they went to Shanahan's. Hope it's just my imagination running wild.

Broncolingus
01-03-2010, 09:55 PM
Hope it's just my imagination running wild.

...methinks it isnt.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-03-2010, 10:06 PM
...methinks it isnt.

I hope in the case of Dumervil it is. I figured that Brandon would either end up with Shanahan or Cutler.

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 02:10 AM
28 tds

What?

Not enough keys to type in the int's?

:coffee:

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2010, 05:13 AM
What?

Not enough keys to type in the int's?

:coffee:

Who cares about interceptions, throwing games, winning, and killing coaches when you have a stronger arm than John Elway.

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 05:52 AM
What?

Not enough keys to type in the int's?

:coffee:

We all know the ints. 26

To start the season, Jay Cutler had a Kick Returner, a 2nd year receiver with no career receptions, a 5th round rookie, and a receiver who never made his way off of other team's practice squads.

And to start the season, Kyle Orton had a WR who had back to back 100 catch seasons, and another wideout who had over 90 catches the year prior. Oh and the best Oline in all of football.

Kyle threw 21 tds in an offense that was likened to a ferarri, and Jay threw 27 tds with the corps I mentioned, and an Oline that was bagged routinely on this board.

Why did Jay throw more TDs? There should be absolutely no reason right rcsodak and silk? I mean he sucks.

Brett Favre only had a team around him that played almost as bad as the '09 Bears once, and he put up a whopping 20 tds to go along with his 29 picks. To be fair though, Favre had the better oline, and Donald Driver.

Popular opinion is that Favre is going into the HOF the first year he is eligible. And he has won an MVP or two if memory serves.

Once again, why has Jay scored more than Kyle, even though Jay had far far less. Worst season of Jay's entire career, and he has thrown more tds than Kyle has in his best.

Why?

No seriously why?

SoCalImport
01-04-2010, 06:22 AM
Umm. Becuase he's a very talented but reckless, gunslinger?

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 06:41 AM
Umm. Becuase he's a very talented but reckless, gunslinger?

That post was meant for them. They are not objective, and will never give honest analysis.

And allow me to clarify, I like Kyle. It is not my intent to bag him.

My point is, for all of Jay's struggles this year, he still managed to score 28 total tds, 27 passing.

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 01:44 PM
On the job training attampts to improve performance by changing choices and actions that lead to negative outcomes. Did you see those changes or improvements?

I am not trying to single you out individually but I keep seeing this concept stated by fans. I can not say that I saw him change or grow. He believes in a system and won't alter it.

Next year, we will see if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Right now it doesn't look good but who knows :noidea: he has the excuse that he is a rookie head coach (though he is not a rookie signal caller).

Well, coach, reading his comments after the game, he himself said he'll be examining HIS coaching, his Staff's coaching, the players, AND THE SCHEME/PLAYCALLING.

That, at least, shows he IS learning OTJ.

That's all we can ask right now. Right?

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 01:53 PM
You ASSUME even more believing everything you read that bashes Marshall and supports McD.

I hope my Shanny shows a little... he's a future HOFer, and an important part of this team's history. Saying that is like saying "your Elway is showing", or "your Rod Smith is showing"

Damn rc, you're really hurting my feelings...:coffee:

Call me edumacated then.

Glad you brought them up.

My "Rod Smith"/"John Elway" was showing when they opined on Bmarsh, and the team. As previous players, I listen to them.

Do you?

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 02:00 PM
Unnamed sources.. yeah.. Oooooh Kay.

Un-names sources say that the PLAYERS wanted Marshall benched going into the game. Great.. so not only do know we have IDIOT coach, we know we have some IDIOT players (captains) as well.

Since when are "captains"...."Bailey"...."Dawkins"...."Unnamed sources"?

We already knew anybody that doesn't agree with you, you think is an "IDIOT".

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 02:03 PM
How many times is rc going to use that lame "your shanny is showing" line? Does he think its that funny? Whats the over-under on that?
:coffee:

I'll be your huckleberry.

:coffee:

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 02:14 PM
We all know the ints. 26

To start the season, Jay Cutler had a Kick Returner, a 2nd year receiver with no career receptions, a 5th round rookie, and a receiver who never made his way off of other team's practice squads.

And to start the season, Kyle Orton had a WR who had back to back 100 catch seasons, and another wideout who had over 90 catches the year prior. Oh and the best Oline in all of football.

Kyle threw 21 tds in an offense that was likened to a ferarri, and Jay threw 27 tds with the corps I mentioned, and an Oline that was bagged routinely on this board.

Why did Jay throw more TDs? There should be absolutely no reason right rcsodak and silk? I mean he sucks.

Brett Favre only had a team around him that played almost as bad as the '09 Bears once, and he put up a whopping 20 tds to go along with his 29 picks. To be fair though, Favre had the better oline, and Donald Driver.

Popular opinion is that Favre is going into the HOF the first year he is eligible. And he has won an MVP or two if memory serves.

Once again, why has Jay scored more than Kyle, even though Jay had far far less. Worst season of Jay's entire career, and he has thrown more tds than Kyle has in his best.

Why?

No seriously why?

Why does cutler constantly throw redzone int's?
Why does cutler constantly throw late across the middle for int's?
Why does cutler constantly get rattled with pressure and throw int's?
Why does cutler constantly LEAD teams to non-winning seasons?
Why does cutler always throw tirades if things don't work out?
Why does cutler always blame everybody else for his int's?

Why?

No seriously why?

Watchthemiddle
01-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels decided to bench wide receiver Brandon Marshall for the regular-season finale after he was late to a scheduled therapy session with the Denver medical staff for treatment of a hamstring injury the team already believed he was exaggerating, according to multiple team sources.

Both Marshall and tight end Tony Scheffler have been advised they will not be permitted on the sideline or in the locker room when the Broncos play the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday in a game with playoff implications.



The Broncos sent Marshall for an MRI on his hamstring after he complained of the injury during Wednesday's practice. According to team sources, the test indicated that Marshall's hamstring was healthy.

The latest showdown between the head coach and the Pro Bowl receiver actually began the week before when Marshall excused himself from practice, complaining the cold weather was making it difficult for him to breathe.

Then, as the team reviewed tape of its loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, in which Marshall dropped several passes, McDaniels mentioned that certain plays had to be made. Marshall apparently felt he was being unfairly singled out for criticism.

According to Broncos sources, the problems with Marshall and Scheffler came after team leaders including Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Kyle Orton, DJ Williams and Daniel Graham all met with McDaniels on Monday and encouraged him to take a hardline approach in preparing the team to finish the season against the Chiefs.

That development, combined with a home loss to the Raiders, compelled McDaniels to emphasize the need for accountability in a full team meeting Wednesday. It was later that day when Marshall complained about his hamstring.

Scheffler was presumably demoted to the scout team after he was overheard telling teammates that he couldn't wait for Denver's season to end.

The Broncos do not think it's a coincidence that Marshall became a distraction almost immediately after achieving several personal goals, including having another 100-catch season and making the Pro Bowl. McDaniels has been implementing a team-first mentality similar to that he experienced while part of Bill Belichick's staff with the three-time Super Bowl champion New England Patriots.

It's possible Marshall has played his last game with the Broncos, sources close to the situation told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. Marshall is scheduled to be a free agent this offseason, and will be a restricted free agent if next season is uncapped, as is expected.

In an uncapped year, the Broncos would be expected to tender Marshall at the highest level possible -- one worth a first- and third-round draft choice. If another team signed Marshall to an offer sheet, Denver would have seven days to match it. If Denver opted not to match the offer -- and the Broncos have shown little inclination of signing him to a long-term deal -- then Marshall would become the other teams' property and Denver would get back first- and third-round draft choices.

Because Marshall would be a free agent, Denver could not trade Marshall without his signing an offer sheet with another team.

Ed Werder is an NFL reporter for ESPN. ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter contributed to this report.


Thanks for posting this.

Watchthemiddle
01-04-2010, 03:46 PM
Why does cutler constantly throw redzone int's?
Why does cutler constantly throw late across the middle for int's?
Why does cutler constantly get rattled with pressure and throw int's?
Why does cutler constantly LEAD teams to non-winning seasons?
Why does cutler always throw tirades if things don't work out?
Why does cutler always blame everybody else for his int's?

Why?

No seriously why?

Why did a team picked by MANY in the sports world pick a team to go to the SUper Bowl ONLY because CUtler was on the team....only to fall to 7-9 BECAUSE of Cutler??

Look for more coaches to get fired because of Cutler and his inability to be a decent QB in the NFL.

broncofaninfla
01-04-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm glad the team captains swayed to coach to feild only team players yeterday, that approach worked like a champ. Our team players got their asses handed to them. I wouldn't be surprised if this story is complete BS to bail Mcd out of another bad decision.

claymore
01-04-2010, 03:50 PM
I'm glad the team captains swayed to coach to feild only team players yeterday, that approach worked like a champ. Our team players got their asses handed to them. I wouldn't be surprised if this story is complete BS to bail Mcd out of another bad decision.

I would put money on the fact that JMCD went to them, or called them to his office.

This isnt "We are the titans". You just dont do that stuff.

And If they did do it. They should have played a hell of alot harder yesterday.

CoachChaz
01-04-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm glad the team captains swayed to coach to feild only team players yeterday, that approach worked like a champ. Our team players got their asses handed to them. I wouldn't be surprised if this story is complete BS to bail Mcd out of another bad decision.

Keep reaching

broncofaninfla
01-04-2010, 03:54 PM
I would put money on the fact that JMCD went to them, or called them to his office.

This isnt "We are the titans". You just dont do that stuff.

And If they did do it. They should have played a hell of alot harder yesterday.

Agreed. I thought we'd come out balls to the wall with this "team players only" battle cry but instead it was the same old lame ass offense and a very sub par performance by a wornout defense. Thic latest public drama backfired on Mcd and killed what little chance we had for the postseason.

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Why did a team picked by MANY in the sports world pick a team to go to the SUper Bowl ONLY because CUtler was on the team....only to fall to 7-9 BECAUSE of Cutler??

Look for more coaches to get fired because of Cutler and his inability to be a decent QB in the NFL.

Great post, WTM!

That point has caused me to scratch my head many o' times.....

Maybe they thought Shanny was "holding him back" last year, but lovie would "turn him loose"???

:rolleyes:

jrelway
01-04-2010, 03:57 PM
we dont need playmakers on this team. we just need team players to give their best efforts for the team. i love 2nd half season meltdowns. i love losing to the chiefs at home with playoffs on the line.

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 03:59 PM
I'm glad the team captains swayed to coach to feild only team players yeterday, that approach worked like a champ. Our team players got their asses handed to them. I wouldn't be surprised if this sdtory is complete BS to bail Mcd out of another bad decision.

That loss was on the hands of the Defense.

Unless bm/ts switched positions, your post makes zero sense.

broncofaninfla
01-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Keep reaching

The moment Mcd decided to make this issue public drama he lost all rights not to be second guessed and opened questioning for his motives. Am I saying he made the team captain story up, no BUT it wouldn't surprise me.

broncofaninfla
01-04-2010, 04:02 PM
That loss was on the hands of the Defense.

Unless bm/ts switched positions, your post makes zero sense.

Yeah, the same offense that has been on the field way more than they should have been this year because the offense is so horribly ineffective?? I guess Ortons two short yardage interceptions have nothing to do with our loss??

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 04:03 PM
Agreed. I thought we'd come out balls to the wall with this "team players only" battle cry but instead it was the same old lame ass offense and a very sub par performance by a wornout defense. Thic latest public drama backfired on Mcd and killed what little chance we had for the postseason.

They could have won by 100, they still wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Quit dramatizing.


OAK/KS/CLE/TB all beat "better" teams because they weren't taken seriously.

Shit happens when you party naked.

rcsodak
01-04-2010, 04:05 PM
Yeah, the same offense that has been on the field way more than they should have been this year because the offense is so horribly ineffective?? I guess Ortons two short yardage interceptions have nothing to do with our loss??

Put the drink down....


Denver has NEVER won a game this year after allowing 100yd rushers.

What the HELL do you think allowing 300yds is going to parlay into?


:rollseyes:

broncofaninfla
01-04-2010, 04:14 PM
Put the drink down....


Denver has NEVER won a game this year after allowing 100yd rushers.

What the HELL do you think allowing 300yds is going to parlay into?


:rollseyes:

As Moreno gets stuffed for another loss..........

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2010, 04:17 PM
The moment Mcd decided to make this issue public drama he lost all rights not to be second guessed and opened questioning for his motives. Am I saying he made the team captain story up, no BUT it wouldn't surprise me.

Your "letting the inmates run the asylum" argument has led to 1 playoff win in the last 10 years under Shanahan.

I'm glad to see your reaching for mediocrity at best.

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 04:25 PM
Why does cutler constantly throw redzone int's?Constantly? that is an overstatement. The RZ picks were a problem. He has been improving in that area the last few games-closing the deal in the RZ, or settling for the FG

Why does cutler constantly throw late across the middle for int's?Again constantly? He does hate to concede a play. BTW, I understand it esp in Chi this year. Week 16 v Minn for example. Jay lead the Bears to a 16 point lead at the half, and the D hemorrhaged 30 points in the second half. That just goes to show that if Jay doesnt keep his foot on the gas for the entire game, the Bears will lose. The Cardinals game is another example. Jay threw 3 tds and 370+ yards and what happened? the Bears lost in a 20 point blow out.

Why does cutler constantly get rattled with pressure and throw int's?Again trying to make a play. I will rather my guy lose the game trying to actually win, than lose a game because he is too scared to take a chance, and is more intereested in not losing than winning.

Why does cutler constantly LEAD teams to non-winning seasons?With all of those "complete teams" :rolleyes: that he lead, I have no idea

Why does cutler always throw tirades if things don't work out?Really? I have yet to see that. With all the adversity faced in Chicago, I have yet to see Jay once lash out at any team mate, coach, etc etc.

Why does cutler always blame everybody else for his int's?The only person he has blamed for his picks this year was himself. Nice try though. Im curious, what are you going to accuse Jay of next? Starting the Great Chicago Fire? Shooting JFK? Selling secrets to the Soviets?

Food for thought. From Lovie's own mouth-Jay has been given "total control" of the offense the last two weeks. I found that interesting.

Now that I have answered your hyperbole, can you answer my questions?

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2010, 04:36 PM
Constantly? that is an overstatement. The RZ have been a problem. He has been improving in that area the last few games-closing the deal in the RZ, or settling for the FG

Improving? The guy has now been in the league as a starter for 4 years. He's already been passed as a QB by younger players. He's the third best QB in your division. At what point will he start winning. That's still a huge glaring problem with him as a player that you're missing.




Again constantly? He does hate to concede a play. BTW, I understand it esp in Chi this year. Week 16 v Minn for example. Jay lead the Bears to a 16 point lead at the half, and the D hemorrhaged 30 points in the second half. That just goes to show that if Jay doesnt keep his foot on the gas for the entire game, the Bears will lose. The Cardinals game is another example. Jay threw 3 tds and 370+ yards and what happened? the Bears lost in a 20 point blow out.
Again trying to make a play. I will rather my guy lose the game trying to actually win, than lose a game because he is too scared to take a chance, and is more intereested in not losing than winning.

You apparently didn't watch many Bears games. Shall I point out the games he basically lost for you, because the defense played well, not allowing him to have to "keep his foot on the gas all game"?

Green Bay 2x
Atlanta
San Fransicsco

4 games he lost. That's 25% of the games he played in. I'm glad to see you either aren't Bears intelligent, or choose to ignore it altogether.



With all of those "complete teams" :rolleyes: that he lead, I have no idea

Please. Peyton Manning won playoff games without complete teams. Jake Plummer won a playoff game with the #27 ranked defense, and no run game. Trent Green went 13-3 with the 32nd ranked defense.

I'm not even sure you guys are arguing. Cutler isn't a top 10 QB in the NFL, and with guys like Stafford and Sanchez, he doesn't even have the "potential" argument backing him up.

Hell, he's only the 3rd best QB in his own division.

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 04:46 PM
Improving? The guy has now been in the league as a starter for 4 years. He's already been passed as a QB by younger players. He's the third best QB in your division. At what point will he start winning. That's still a huge glaring problem with him as a player that you're missing.





You apparently didn't watch many Bears games. Shall I point out the games he basically lost for you, because the defense played well, not allowing him to have to "keep his foot on the gas all game"?

Green Bay 2x
Atlanta
San Fransicsco

4 games he lost. That's 25% of the games he played in. I'm glad to see you either aren't Bears intelligent, or choose to ignore it altogether.




Please. Peyton Manning won playoff games without complete teams. Jake Plummer won a playoff game with the #27 ranked defense, and no run game. Trent Green went 13-3 with the 32nd ranked defense.

I'm not even sure you guys are arguing. Cutler isn't a top 10 QB in the NFL, and with guys like Stafford and Sanchez, he doesn't even have the "potential" argument backing him up.

Hell, he's only the 3rd best QB in his own division.

He lost the 1st greenbay game, and the SF game-true. He did not lost the Atlanta game-not even close-nor the second Greenbay game. He had us winning at one point actually.

Seriously the Atlanta game? Jay had us in position to win it, and the Oline penalized the game away.

Obvioulsy you have not watched any Bears games this year.

Oh yeah, in the SF game you had...A receiver quitting on a route that resulted in a pick...a receiver running into a ref on a cross, the pass was thrown to lead him. It resulted in a pick. A receiver falling over his feet after the ball was released-pick. A 260+lbs TE having position on a much smaller safety, but getting out muscled for the ball, even though the TE was between the safety and the qb. Damnedest thing I have ever seen.

Now again I have answered your questions again. When will you answer mine? Or will your pride, and your sour grapes paradigm not allow you too?

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2010, 04:58 PM
He lost the 1st greenbay game, and the SF game-true. He did not lost the Atlanta game-not even close-nor the second Greenbay game. He had us winning at one point actually.

Seriously the Atlanta game? Jay had us in position to win it, and the Oline penalized the game away.

Obvioulsy you have not watched any Bears games this year.


Yes he did.

The defense gave up 21 points, which is average. He also had a chance to win the Falcons game, and couldn't get it done. His 2 interceptions certainly didn;t help either. Because Atlanta wasn't scoring every other possession, perhaps he should stayed within the flow of the game.

Green Bay, just another failed attempt at him having to score when Chicago needed him too. His 2 interceptions, again, was him trying to do too much and shows he doesn't understand the flow of the game.



Now again I have answered your questions again. When will you answer mine? Or will your pride, and your sour grapes paradigm not allow you too?

What are you talking about? You haven't asked me any questions. Don't take your animosity out on me because Cutler isn't the elite QB you thought you had.

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 05:00 PM
Jake Plummer won a playoff game with the #27 ranked defense, and no run game.

You lost me at Jake Plummer. Unless there are 2 Jake Plummers that played QB in the NFL.

You really cant be throwing out the guy that had that amazing 9 td 24 int season can you?

The Jake Plummer arguement may fly with Broncos fans, but not with me. Shanny has forgotten more about QBs than you or I will ever know. And he benched 9 and 24 for a rookie. 'Nuff said.

BTW Plummer lead the league in ints that year :lol:

And Cutler still has yet to have a season where he threw more ints than tds.

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2010, 05:03 PM
You lost me at Jake Plummer. Unless there are 2 Jake Plummers that played QB in the NFL.
You really cant be throwing out the guy that had that amazing 9 td 24 int season can you?

Was that the year he went to the playoffs and ended the COwboys dynasty? Apparently you haven't been an NFL fan that long.




The Jake Plummer arguement may fly with Broncos fans, but not with me. Shanny has forgotten more about QBs than you or I will ever know. And he benched 9 and 24 for a rookie. 'Nuff said.

BTW Plummer lead the league in ints that year :lol:

And Cutler still has yet to have a season where he threw more ints than tds.

Great point. Who cares about winning, and playoffs, when you can always throw more TD's than int's.

Considering Chicago has never had an elite QB, the fans there probably wouldn't understand that anyways.

LMAO

Ravage!!!
01-04-2010, 05:11 PM
Getting rid of Cutler will hold this team back for years. Its going to be a DOMINO effect, and I'll be very glad to take a guy's opinion like Stokely, over anyone here. He never had a bad thing to say about Cutler, and was pissed that he was shipped off. This is only a guy that is not only a class act, a headsy player, but one that has played with the very best in the game. Seems this is the kind of guy that wanted Cutler around. Strange how the haters around here think they know better.

silkamilkamonico
01-04-2010, 05:15 PM
Not sure how it holds it back. If Cutler was an elite QB in the NFL, or winning plenty of games here in Denver than I could see that argument.

This organization was being held back long before Cutler got here. I'm not sure how a guy who didn't even have a winning record holds an organization back.

There's a plethora of good system QB's in the NFl if not franchise/elite QB's.

Denver will find one soon enough.

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Was that the year he went to the playoffs and ended the COwboys dynasty? Apparently you haven't been an NFL fan that long.

The Cowboys Dynasty ended in the nineties. Apparently you haven't been an NFL fan that long.

And The Broncos beat the Cowboys in the playoffs. Plummer was just there. Like Dilfer was.

You going to tell me that Dilfer was a better QB than Marino or Kelly next. I mean he does have a superbowl.

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 05:28 PM
There's a plethora of good system QB's in the NFl if not franchise/elite QB's.

Denver will find one soon enough.

If you think that Plummer was good, then I am sure that there are a "plethora" of "franchise/elite QBs out there. Hell with Plummer as the measuring stick, you already have and elite QB.

Actually 3 elite QBs. :laugh:

MasterShake
01-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Damn, Ursa. Your animated gif sigs are bringing every page to a grind! I started typing this two hours ago and won't know if I'll finis----

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 05:44 PM
Damn, Ursa. Your animated gif sigs are bringing every page to a grind! I started typing this two hours ago and won't know if I'll finis----
ill cut it down to the one then.

MasterShake
01-04-2010, 05:47 PM
ill cut it down to the one then.

If you can pick one you like I can make you a fancy one like this:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/8y8ac3.gif

ursamajor
01-04-2010, 06:00 PM
If you can pick one you like I can make you a fancy one like this:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/8y8ac3.gif

Really? that would be awesome. If you could do that with the one that is currently in my sig I would definitely appreciate it.