Trade up for Sedrick Ellis...

[MHCBill]

With the Henry situation settled and Corey Williams off the market it's now time to think drastic.

Most of us agree that DT's in the NFL that are worth a darn rarely see free agency.

So, since we already have Thomas why not solidfy that position for the next 5-8 years and go after Ellis, HARD.

Obvioulsy, the great unknown is how far will he drop. I think realisticly he'll have to fall out of the top five for us to have a shot.

The Jets are at six and the Pats are at seven. Neither of those teams will draft Ellis in my opinion because he is not a 3-4 NT. Ellis is a three-technique DT and a penetrator. That fits our new philosophy/scheme with Slowick perfectly.

What is the price to get up to #6? Tough to say. We have so many other holes to fill I would really hate to deal away a bunch of picks, but we do have Javon that may appeal to the Jets, especially with Coles being very unhappy currently.

So, assuming the Jets would be interested I would propose our #1, #4, Walker, and next year's #2 for #6 overall this year. That's a lot for the Jets to fall back only six spots... that's why I think they'll do it.

We need Ellis now more than ever. I don't want to see us go into next season with Mckinley or worse as our other DT.

Lastly, as much as I would like to grab Stewart in round one it just makes no sense if Henry will still be here. There will be more stud running backs next year so let's fix the DT position for once and for all and grab Ellis now.

[BOSSHOGG30]

What if Ellis gets picked before Dorsey? It could happen.

I think you have to mention both guys when trading up... Pretty much... trade up for the 2nd available DT.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Marcus Thomas and Sederick Ellis
Marcus Thmas and Glenn Dorsey

We are talking Jacksonville or Minnesota like front 4 here.

[MHCBill]

What if Ellis gets picked before Dorsey? It could happen.

I think you have to mention both guys when trading up... Pretty much... trade up for the 2nd available DT.Agree 100%, but my assumption is that Dorsey will go first, but nonetheless whichever falls out of the top 5 is the one we should trade for at #6.

Fix the DT problem now!

We may not have a chance to get this close to the top of the draft again for a while (hopefully) so now is the time to strke. Get the other stud DT now and forget the position for the next 5-8 years.

Thomas and Ellis

or

Thomas and Dorsey

That would be sweet.

[lex]

Here's the problem with this. You'd have to wait until draft day to do this because its conceivable that Dorsey and Ellis might go 1 and 2. This would mean we'd have to trade up to the 2nd overall pick.

[BOSSHOGG30]

You are right lex... but as of right now... if I had to put money on it I would have to say that the Dolphins will take someone for the 3-4 defense they will want to run. They don't want to get stuck with a player they won't use later on like the Jets did with Vilma. Unlike the Jets, the Dolphins know they will be switching to the 3-4 at some point. They will probably go, McFadden, Chris Long, Jake Long or even QB.

[MHCBill]

I don't think we can, nor do I want to trade up to #2.

Yea, we won't know until draft day. So, what's the alternative?

I think the front office needs to be patient and wait until draft day to see if this scenario plays out. If not, have a back-up plan. (i.e. try and trade back from #12, look for a DT in round 2, draft someone else at #12, etc.)

Again, this would be my game plan for draft day. Obviously though you have to have a plan B, plan C, plan D...

Also, now is not the time to panic and go out and overpay for some underproductive, expensive, has-been defensive tackle. We've been down that road before with very little results.

Damnit, why did they trade Warren? He wasn't an All-pro, but he was a servicable DT.

[CoachChaz]

LSU runs more of a Pro-style defense. I think that will benefit Dorsey on draft day.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I hope Dorsey runs a 5.2 forty and only manages 20 reps

[lex]

Well, I think if they're available when the Jets come up, it might be doable. But if before that, its kind of iffy in terms of how much it costs. And the thing is too, I dont see the combine vaulting RBs, WRs, QBs, Ss, or LBs, into the top 5 that arent already there. And I dont see a lot of movement coming out of the combine for linemen. I think everyone is pretty much in the clubhouse once the Senior Bowl ends where linemen are concerned. So basically, I think the top 5 is fairly static. There might still be surprises but I dont think teams are going to change their minds on who they want. The only thing I can really see is if Stewart runs in the 4.3s or if McFadden has a disappointing 40 at his pro day.

With that in mind, I think the best value is with Dre Moore, Red Bryant, or Trevor Laws. I also think we should either sign that FA DT from SF or trade for Rogers if theyll take a 4th for him.

[lex]

LSU runs more of a Pro-style defense. I think that will benefit Dorsey on draft day.

How is that? I just find this interesting considering Carroll is an old NFL guy.

[BOSSHOGG30]

USC runs a pro style offense and defense too.

[tubby]

Pat Sims

[MHCBill]

Sims would be a nice fall back plan, but he is no Dorsey or Ellis.

If either of them fall out of the top 5 we MUST get them!

[BOSSHOGG30]

Pat Simms worries me because he left the team for personel reasons then had to beg the coach to let him play again. He also has a record of being lazy at times and taking plays off. Some say he is just as talented as Sederick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey, but he doesn't always play that way because of lack of motivation. Similar to Shaun Rogers.

[broncohead]

Trade up for Ellis/Dorsey who ever drops past 5. If they don't or we can't get a deal done trade back to the mid 20s and pick up an extra pick.

[Watchthemiddle]

Marcus Thomas and Sederick Ellis
Marcus Thmas and Glenn Dorsey

We are talking Jacksonville or Minnesota like front 4 here.

I am liking the sound of that. :salute:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'd prefer it if we didn't trade up for them, and I hope to God we won't. We don't need two three technique's pounding rear on the interior. God no, another three technique is the last thing we need.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I'd prefer it if we didn't trade up for them, and I hope to God we won't. We don't need two three technique's pounding rear on the interior. God no, another three technique is the last thing we need.

A 3-technique tackle lines up between the offensive guard and tackle. A 3-technique tackle is supposed to run through his gap immediately. He is a 1-gap player. His job is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans. Because of this a 3-technique tackle is a lighter, more athletic guy than a nose tackle. I think a 3 technique is exaclty what the Broncos need.

[BOSSHOGG30]

LSU DT Glenn Dorsey is not expected to attend the NFL Combine due to a death in the family.

Dorsey struggled with a leg injury in his junior year and a knee ailment as a senior, so it doesn't bode well that he's not attending. One of the main things teams are looking for at the Combine is medical information.
Source: Palm Beach Post

[shank]

A 3-technique tackle lines up between the offensive guard and tackle. A 3-technique tackle is supposed to run through his gap immediately. He is a 1-gap player. His job is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans. Because of this a 3-technique tackle is a lighter, more athletic guy than a nose tackle. I think a 3 technique is exaclty what the Broncos need.

a three technique guy is what we already have in thomas and mckinley. i agree with dream that we need a guy who can play nose tackle, eat up some double teams and collapse the pocket with strength. not saying i don't want ellis or dorsey, but i don't want to trade up either.

[shank]

LSU DT Glenn Dorsey is not expected to attend the NFL Combine due to a death in the family.

Dorsey struggled with a leg injury in his junior year and a knee ailment as a senior, so it doesn't bode well that he's not attending. One of the main things teams are looking for at the Combine is medical information.
Source: Palm Beach Post

that's pretty lame. i don't know if i just read it or if it was on nfl network, but they said that the death only caused him to miss a week of training in preperation for the combine.

it said he would still attend but wouldn't do the 40 or bench press til his pro day.

if i get my vote, let the fall to 12 begin!

[BOSSHOGG30]

a three technique guy is what we already have in thomas and mckinley. i agree with dream that we need a guy who can play nose tackle, eat up some double teams and collapse the pocket with strength. not saying i don't want ellis or dorsey, but i don't want to trade up either.

I don't know if Dorsey is just a 3 tech player... he has shown he is great when double teamed. He has plenty of experience with double teams.

[shank]

I don't know if Dorsey is just a 3 tech player... he has shown he is great when double teamed. He has plenty of experience with double teams.

like i said, i would love dorsey or ellis on our team, but would rather not trade up for either one just because of the cost involved in doing so. i'm hoping the combine shuffles everything and makes a few extra guys jump up as 'can't miss' top 10 players and dorsey is 'forgotten about' because of injury concerns and his skipping of the combine^. i'll start crossing my fingers and doing the drop dance (similar to a native american rain dance) right now.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

A 3-technique tackle lines up between the offensive guard and tackle. A 3-technique tackle is supposed to run through his gap immediately. He is a 1-gap player. His job is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans. Because of this a 3-technique tackle is a lighter, more athletic guy than a nose tackle. I think a 3 technique is exaclty what the Broncos need.

I know what a three technique is Boss, and we already have two of them in McKinley and Thomas. We don't need a third.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't know if Dorsey is just a 3 tech player... he has shown he is great when double teamed. He has plenty of experience with double teams.

Dorsey's a fantastic player, but I don't see the need in trading up for him. We have two three technique players.

The kind of DT that'd go well next to either of them would be a Trevor Laws or a Marcus Harrison.

[broncogirl7]

I would love to see us get Sedrick Ellis. He could bring alot of fire to the position. He dominated in the Senior Bowl.

[WARHORSE]

If Haynesworth was there at 12, would you select him?

[broncogirl7]

If Haynesworth was there at 12, would you select him?

No. He has too many character flaws and I'd rather see us get Ellis. I thought the Titans are were calling him a "franchise" player to prevent him from leaving as a free agent? Don't you thnk the Jets would take a serious look at Haynesworth? Rumor mill I guess...:laugh:

[shank]

The kind of DT that'd go well next to either of them would be a Trevor Laws or a Marcus Harrison.

not pat sims?

also, how do you feel about red bryant? any late round guys you see fitting well?

+at this point, where is okam expected to go? it seems like he's almost reached terminal velocity...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

not pat sims?

also, how do you feel about red bryant? any late round guys you see fitting well?

+at this point, where is okam expected to go? it seems like he's almost reached terminal velocity...

Pat Sims is a pretty versatile guy; he wouldn't be a bad fit, but he's still a 3 in my eyes.

Red Bryant would be sort of the type we're looking for, and would have been a perfect fit in Bates' system; which no longer exists.

Marcus Harrison, Trevor Laws, Ahtyba Rubin, Letroy Guion (Go Noles, and better than Fluellen from FSU), James McClinton and Frank Morton. Granted I've seen like two games of Tulane; so I can't say much about Morton - but those other guys would be ideal pairs next to either McKinley or Thomas in our defense.

Dre Moore also has that nose potential, but he too would probably be a ripper at a 3.

[lex]

Pat Sims is a pretty versatile guy; he wouldn't be a bad fit, but he's still a 3 in my eyes.

Red Bryant would be sort of the type we're looking for, and would have been a perfect fit in Bates' system; which no longer exists.

Marcus Harrison, Trevor Laws, Ahtyba Rubin, Letroy Guion (Go Noles, and better than Fluellen from FSU), James McClinton and Frank Morton. Granted I've seen like two games of Tulane; so I can't say much about Morton - but those other guys would be ideal pairs next to either McKinley or Thomas in our defense.

Dre Moore also has that nose potential, but he too would probably be a ripper at a 3.

I dont know why Dre Moore couldnt play a 2. He certainly seems strong enough to face up the guard and hold his ground.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I have to wonder if Atlanta will take a DT now that they have the #3 overall pick and they recently gave Rod Coleman his walking papers? Doesn't look good for Denver.

[MHCBill]

I think Atlanta will take Ryan or McFadden.

Skill players sell tickets and right now that's what Atlanta needs.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think Atlanta will take Ryan or McFadden.

Skill players sell tickets and right now that's what Atlanta needs.

I hope they take Ryan. Oakland will take a DT more than likely and Chiefs will take the other DT or OL. It doesn't look like Ellis or Dorsey will make it past the top 4 or 5.

[MHCBill]

Only way I see one of the two making it out of the top five is if the first five players are...

Chris Long
Darren Mcfadden
Matt Ryan
Jake Long
Dorsey/Ellis

As long as four of these five go in the top five we should make the move to get to #6 overall... Jake Long, Chris Long, Darren Mcfadden, and Matt Ryan. It's possible.

If Dorsey or Ellis slips to #6 trade the Jets our #1, #4, (Walker), and '09 #2. If Walker's gone I would consider bumping '09 #2 to '09 #1.

We need Ellis or Dorsey with Thomas for the next 5-8 years.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Rod Coleman, Shaun Rogers, Darwin Walker...

...the last thing Shanny should do is overreact and mortgage the future for a top 5 choice. Gimme the Irishman, the Terp or the Cyclone. a bit later on to rotate with a FA DT and Thomas.

I think our 2 FA/Trade acquisitions should be WR and DT. Then in the draft we LOAD UP on LBs, Ss and OTs.

[broncohead]

We have a lot of picks and I don't think we should give up a lot just for one player. DT is generally a high bust rate position. I would rather pick up 2 or 3 DT with the current picks that we have.

[jhns]

I would love to somehow get either of these top two DT's. I don't see it as a likely thing to happen, but it would be nice.

[fcspikeit]

With the Henry situation settled and Corey Williams off the market it's now time to think drastic.

Most of us agree that DT's in the NFL that are worth a darn rarely see free agency.

So, since we already have Thomas why not solidfy that position for the next 5-8 years and go after Ellis, HARD.

Obvioulsy, the great unknown is how far will he drop. I think realisticly he'll have to fall out of the top five for us to have a shot.

The Jets are at six and the Pats are at seven. Neither of those teams will draft Ellis in my opinion because he is not a 3-4 NT. Ellis is a three-technique DT and a penetrator. That fits our new philosophy/scheme with Slowick perfectly.

What is the price to get up to #6? Tough to say. We have so many other holes to fill I would really hate to deal away a bunch of picks, but we do have Javon that may appeal to the Jets, especially with Coles being very unhappy currently.

So, assuming the Jets would be interested I would propose our #1, #4, Walker, and next year's #2 for #6 overall this year. That's a lot for the Jets to fall back only six spots... that's why I think they'll do it.

We need Ellis now more than ever. I don't want to see us go into next season with Mckinley or worse as our other DT.

Lastly, as much as I would like to grab Stewart in round one it just makes no sense if Henry will still be here. There will be more stud running backs next year so let's fix the DT position for once and for all and grab Ellis now.

I agree, I am unsure if either Ellis or Dorsey will fall out of the top 5 but if they do we should go hard for either.

Beings the Jets are also wanting to trade Vilma, maybe we could work out a deal with them for both Vilma and their 6th pick. If Walker could be in the equation that might also help us get more for him then we would trading him outright by himself..

[shank]

man, i shouldn't have watched ellis' combine presser. he's a great player and seeing him speak, he seems to know football, be a good guy, and seems very smart.

it's going to suck to see him go somewhere else!

[Astrass]

I'd like to see this happen. I really want Ellis on this team. Our tackles would be set for years. No more over the hill FA BS like the last couple years.

[Astrass]

I hope they take Ryan. Oakland will take a DT more than likely and Chiefs will take the other DT or OL. It doesn't look like Ellis or Dorsey will make it past the top 4 or 5.

if raiders go DT i see them taking Dorsey for 2 reasons.

A. Dorsey is the flashier of the 2 which Al David prefers

and

B. Kiffin would want Ellis which Al Davis would dispute just cause he doesn;t like kiffin.

[Lonestar]

For now I do not see either of them getting past 5 or 6..

Solid DTs are rarely passed over in the Draft they are a hot commodity in really short supply.

[shank]

For now I do not see either of them getting past 5 or 6..

Solid DTs are rarely passed over in the Draft they are a hot commodity in really short supply.

did you see that dorsey supposedly had stress fractures in his leg? this is the same problem that started alan branches freefall from the top 5 to the 2nd round last year... if the situation is similar, i can see it dropping him (though i hope its only a big enough of a concern to drop him to 12, not the 2nd round)

[fcspikeit]

We have a lot of picks and I don't think we should give up a lot just for one player. DT is generally a high bust rate position. I would rather pick up 2 or 3 DT with the current picks that we have.

After watching the Senior Bowl and the combine, Trever Laws is really impressing me. I think he has consistently closed the cap between himself, Ellis and Dorsey.

If we could trade back, pick up a late 2nd or 3rd and then grab Laws that would be awesome!

[Lonestar]

did you see that dorsey supposedly had stress fractures in his leg? this is the same problem that started alan branches freefall from the top 5 to the 2nd round last year... if the situation is similar, i can see it dropping him (though i hope its only a big enough of a concern to drop him to 12, not the 2nd round)

So do we waste a solid #1 pick at 12 on him hoping he will be prime beef next year?

We have had a bunch of first day picks that have no panned out because of the following.

willie middlebroken had a bum wrist his senior year.. for all intents and purposes never played a meaningful down for us..

delta oneal played CB for just over a year in college after being moved to it because he was great athlete only to find out he was a great athlete but had a long term memory issue and could not forget the last play.. normally being burnt on the next one. Had he played CB longer in college we would have probably know it up front...

paul toveiessi hurt and never played a down..

foster hurt as a senior and his value dropped. one of the top mistakes mikey ever made..

C brown hailed a the best DE in the draft, proved he was a load when he was on the field but that was seldom because of injuries.

just a few examples of why I think we should not take less than prime USDA #1 with a #12.

Call me paranoid but I do not trust mikey to make a great decision here..

[Watchthemiddle]

JR, I agree.

I have never understood taking a "chance" on guys who were injured while in college and missed a lot of playing time.

To me, there is enough talent out there to use your draft picks on guys who have played and have not been hampered by injury.

[shank]

i agree, it's a very tough call. but from what i understand, he's had the stress fractures for like a year, and played despite them this season... i don't know what the actual impact of stress fractures are, if it can actually affect performance, if it's just a pain issure, or what, so i'm not sure.

i know that if dorsey drops to 12 and we pass on him and he turns out to be what everyone thinks he can be that i'll learn to kick myself in the head. then i'll write shanny a letter, because someone had obviously cursed him. (al davis; he got a mortality elixer while he was at the voodoo store as well)

[Lonestar]

JR, I agree.

I have never understood taking a "chance" on guys who were injured while in college and missed a lot of playing time.

To me, there is enough talent out there to use your draft picks on guys who have played and have not been hampered by injury.


i agree, it's a very tough call. but from what i understand, he's had the stress fractures for like a year, and played despite them this season... i don't know what the actual impact of stress fractures are, if it can actually affect performance, if it's just a pain issure, or what, so i'm not sure.

i know that if dorsey drops to 12 and we pass on him and he turns out to be what everyone thinks he can be that i'll learn to kick myself in the head. then i'll write shanny a letter, because someone had obviously cursed him. (al davis; he got a mortality elixer while he was at the voodoo store as well)


A tough call, maybe after all the really bad picks the odds are with us now..

[Astrass]

With the Henry situation settled and Corey Williams off the market it's now time to think drastic.

Most of us agree that DT's in the NFL that are worth a darn rarely see free agency.

So, since we already have Thomas why not solidfy that position for the next 5-8 years and go after Ellis, HARD.

Obvioulsy, the great unknown is how far will he drop. I think realisticly he'll have to fall out of the top five for us to have a shot.

The Jets are at six and the Pats are at seven. Neither of those teams will draft Ellis in my opinion because he is not a 3-4 NT. Ellis is a three-technique DT and a penetrator. That fits our new philosophy/scheme with Slowick perfectly.

What is the price to get up to #6? Tough to say. We have so many other holes to fill I would really hate to deal away a bunch of picks, but we do have Javon that may appeal to the Jets, especially with Coles being very unhappy currently.

So, assuming the Jets would be interested I would propose our #1, #4, Walker, and next year's #2 for #6 overall this year. That's a lot for the Jets to fall back only six spots... that's why I think they'll do it.

We need Ellis now more than ever. I don't want to see us go into next season with Mckinley or worse as our other DT.

Lastly, as much as I would like to grab Stewart in round one it just makes no sense if Henry will still be here. There will be more stud running backs next year so let's fix the DT position for once and for all and grab Ellis now.

With Mcnair retiring The Ravens need a QB. I think we will trade up with the Ravens to #8 if Ellis or Dorsey gets past KC. I think we will swap first rounders, and we throw in a CB and a pick. I'm just hoping it's not a 2nd rounder. I think the Ravens may be desperate and just take a CB and maybe a 4th or a pick next year.

[TXBRONC]

With Mcnair retiring The Ravens need a QB. I think we will trade up with the Ravens to #8 if Ellis or Dorsey gets past KC. I think we will swap first rounders, and we throw in a CB and a pick. I'm just hoping it's not a 2nd rounder. I think the Ravens may be desperate and just take a CB and maybe a 4th or a pick next year.

With McNair retiring they may not want to move out of the 8th spot in the draft.

[Buff]

After watching the Senior Bowl and the combine, Trever Laws is really impressing me. I think he has consistently closed the cap between himself, Ellis and Dorsey.

If we could trade back, pick up a late 2nd or 3rd and then grab Laws that would be awesome!

Laws has a good motor, but I'm not a huge fan of bringing in an undersized DT unless his name is Sedrick Ellis.

[Astrass]

With McNair retiring they may not want to move out of the 8th spot in the draft.

they could most likely move down to the 12th and still have Ryan sitting there. Cincy isnt going to take a QB neither is NO or Buffalo.....why not move? Before Mcnair decided to retire most people had BAL picking a CB, why not move down get the QB they need and also a CB.

[BOSSHOGG30]

There is "no way" the Ravens will pass on Boston College QB Matt Ryan if he falls to No. 8 in the draft, according to ESPN's John Clayton.

Steve McNair's retirement has cost Baltimore even the possibility of smokescreening. If Ryan becomes a Raven, the team will likely look hard at cornerbacks at the start of the second round. With an aging roster, Clayton says the Ravens are "unlikely" to trade up in the first round.
Source: ESPN Insider

[claymore]

There is "no way" the Ravens will pass on Boston College QB Matt Ryan if he falls to No. 8 in the draft, according to ESPN's John Clayton.

Steve McNair's retirement has cost Baltimore even the possibility of smokescreening. If Ryan becomes a Raven, the team will likely look hard at cornerbacks at the start of the second round. With an aging roster, Clayton says the Ravens are "unlikely" to trade up in the first round.
Source: ESPN Insider
That was my first thought upon hearing of his retirement. Which means another quality player falls to us........... According to me..........

[TXBRONC]

There is "no way" the Ravens will pass on Boston College QB Matt Ryan if he falls to No. 8 in the draft, according to ESPN's John Clayton.

Steve McNair's retirement has cost Baltimore even the possibility of smokescreening. If Ryan becomes a Raven, the team will likely look hard at cornerbacks at the start of the second round. With an aging roster, Clayton says the Ravens are "unlikely" to trade up in the first round.
Source: ESPN Insider

I can't see them passing him up if falls to them at the 8th pick.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I can. He's no Manning and I could see them giving Smith a legit shot as he looked quite good last year

[TXBRONC]

I can. He's no Manning and I could see them giving Smith a legit shot as he looked quite good last year

Ok but I could still see them taking Ryan if he's available. Troy started the last two games of the year. One was a blowout by the Seahawks so I don't that part of his good stats had to do with Seahawks playing soft on defense. The other game was a meaningless against a team already going to the playoffs so I would imagine the Steelers rested most of their starters.

[lex]

Ok but I could still see them taking Ryan if he's available. Troy started the last two games of the year. One was a blowout by the Seahawks so I don't that part of his good stats had to do with Seahawks playing soft on defense. The other game was a meaningless against a team already going to the playoffs so I would imagine the Steelers rested most of their starters.

Does anyone think Baltimore would just like to move on from Boller and might use a high pick to justify parting ways with Boller. If they take a QB, for example, at the end of the draft its harder to justify cutting him lose. If you take a QB high, you can move on. I mean, if they got rid of Billick, doesnt it make sense that theyd also want to get rid of his mistakes (Boller being at the top of the list).

[WARHORSE]

When it comes to QBs, unless theyre remarkably talented, Id rather take a chance on a later pick than an early one.

They seem to have the same chances of success.


Romo

Edwards

Brady

Montana

Etc................


Smith may actually be their man......I agree with SA.

He didnt set the world on fire, but he didnt exactly look shell shocked either.:coffee: