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HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2010, 09:48 PM
How come so many people think McD is doing the right thing? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start a bashing or hating thread here, I just can't seem to get my hands around this coach and why everyone is defending him so much. Is it loyalty to the team and he's the "face-of-the-franchise" by default? Is it the way the team is playing? Is it the way he handles personnel decisions? Is it the offensive scheme? Is it because he was successful in NE as the OC so it's going to translate here we just need to give him some more time?

I want opinions and explanations here, not just hate mongering. I just have a really hard time showing a lot of support for a guy who drove Cutler out, is driving Scheffler and Marshall out, and has all but phased Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis out of his offense.

Please explain it like I'm a 4 year old because I just don't get it. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here. You'll get no arguement from me here, I just want to know why.

Thanks.

girler
01-02-2010, 10:25 PM
Because when it comes down to it we fans have no control whatsoever over the team, but McD basically has ALL the power as the coach. So if we are going to follow the team, we will support McD and drink his kool-aid and we will LIKE it, or we will hate everything he does and whine and moan and hit our heads against the wall and be miserable until we-don't-know-when happens.

Some of us are glass-half-full people, and some are glass-half-empty. Just the way the world works. :noidea:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2010, 10:27 PM
Because when it comes down to it we fans have no control whatsoever over the team, but McD basically has ALL the power as the coach. So if we are going to follow the team, we will support McD and drink his kool-aid and we will LIKE it, or we will hate everything he does and whine and moan and hit our heads against the wall and be miserable until we-don't-know-when happens.

Some of us are glass-half-full people, and some are glass-half-empty. Just the way the world works. :noidea:

Thanks for the reply, I was beginning to think this thread had bad breath or something the way folks were avoiding it...

girler
01-02-2010, 10:28 PM
Thanks for the reply, I was beginning to think this thread had bad breath or something the way folks were avoiding it...

Not very many people are on today I think.

Shazam!
01-02-2010, 10:32 PM
I was beginning to think this thread had bad breath or something...

It does.

KCL
01-02-2010, 10:39 PM
IMO Your coach is doing what he thinks gives this team the best chance at winning...that answer is probably one that has been over used a bit but he wants the team to win just like the players and fans do.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2010, 10:42 PM
It does.

Could you elaborate, please? Not on the bad breath remark but on you opinions, it would be appreciated.

NightTrainLayne
01-02-2010, 10:54 PM
For me, it's just that the Head Coach is the boss (whether it's Shanny or McD, or Parcells or Bill Walshe), and he's going to do what he thinks is best for the team as a whole to help them win.

Coach's don't intentionally make decisions to hurt their teams. Now obviously some coaches have more success than others because they make better decisions, but nobody intentionally tries to undermine their own team. That idea is just ridiculous.

But so many act like that's the case. Like McD doesn't have anything better to do than to alienate his best players. Obviously he places a different value on those guys being with them day in and day out than we do.

Does that mean he's right? No, not at all. He could be making a terrible mistake. But questioning his intent doesn't make any sense at all.

McD is going to run the team entirely differently than Shanny. When Shanny goes to Washington he's going to make a lot of changes there too. Likely he won't be questioned as much because he's had a lot more success in his past, but what if Shanny goes into Washington and trades Portis again right off the bat? Don't you think some Washington fans would be upset about that? Especially if he brings in someone the level of Travis Henry again? What about Washington's line? They're not a ZBS line. When he goes to retooling that and they have some growing pains, I'm guessing Washington fans will be questioning the rationale of this change.

McD wants to run an offense that is completely different than Shanny did, and there's some growing pains inherent in making changes like that. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until he has enough of a track record to guage his overall effectiveness.

Calling him names, and throwing him under the bus right now doesn't accomplish anything, and only serves to alienate myself from the team. Being a fan, I don't see any benefit in alienating myself from the team. If things are still going the same direction 18 months from now, then I'll have enough track record to make a rational decision, but at this point I don't.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-02-2010, 10:58 PM
How come so many people think McD is doing the right thing? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start a bashing or hating thread here, I just can't seem to get my hands around this coach and why everyone is defending him so much. Is it loyalty to the team and he's the "face-of-the-franchise" by default? Is it the way the team is playing? Is it the way he handles personnel decisions? Is it the offensive scheme? Is it because he was successful in NE as the OC so it's going to translate here we just need to give him some more time?

I want opinions and explanations here, not just hate mongering. I just have a really hard time showing a lot of support for a guy who drove Cutler out, is driving Scheffler and Marshall out, and has all but phased Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis out of his offense.

Please explain it like I'm a 4 year old because I just don't get it. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here. You'll get no arguement from me here, I just want to know why.

Thanks.

Obviously, no one on here knows what goes on during meetings - i.e. coaches and players, no one on here knows what goes on during practices, no one knows what goes on during the game - exactly what the scheme is, etc., so I see no reason why people on here, feel they can BASH the coach, the QB, etc.,without having one cent of inside information.

Shazam!
01-02-2010, 11:01 PM
Could you elaborate, please? Not on the bad breath remark but on you opinions, it would be appreciated.

Ohh geez. This is so old.

All the crying and shit about McDaniels is doing nobody any good.

He 'drove Cutler out'? Does that really need to be rehashed again? Cutler DID ALL HE COULD do gain as much leverage as possible to get out of Denver, he's a pantie-wearing whiny little ****, who has SUCKED in Chicago and he can go rot in Chicago. You don't want to play for the Broncos, I want you OFF MY TEAM. The minute it was obvious he didn't want to be here and McD reached out plenty and YOU IGNORE THE OWNER, good riddance.

Did you complain when Mike Shanahan was driving the team into the ground? When his Club Med practices ended with half the team injured with stupid groins and hammys? When the Defense was the laughing stock of the League and couldn't slow down a HS Varsity Team?

His QB is Kyle friggin' Orton. KYLE ORTON. He has done a respectable job but we all know he isn't the longterm answer. His abilities are limited and was just a respectable stop gap. He was the best QB he could get in a deal for Cutler. I fully expect another QB to be Drafted because we all know Simms is gone.

I have news for you. If the Broncos win tomorrow they'll have their first winning record since 2006 and it's possible that they can make the Playoffs. Despite all the ups and downs this year, nobody thought they'd have a winning year in McDaniels first season.

McDaniels is going to be around for awhile. You other people better get used to him and stop bitching already. Shit like this is getting old. It's friggin' nauseating.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2010, 11:08 PM
Ohh geez. This is so old.

All the crying and shit about McDaniels is doing nobody any good.

He 'drove Cutler out'? Does that really need to be rehashed again? Cutler DID ALL HE COULD do gain as much leverage as possible to get out of Denver, he's a pantie-wearing whiny little ****, who has SUCKED in Chicago and he can go rot in Chicago. You don't want to play for the Broncos, I want you OFF MY TEAM. The minute it was obvious he didn't want to be here and McD reached out plenty and YOU IGNORE THE OWNER, good riddance.

Did you complain when Mike Shanahan was driving the team into the ground? When his Club Med practices ended with half the team injured with stupid groins and hammys? When the Defense was the laughing stock of the League and couldn't slow down a HS Varsity Team?

His QB is Kyle friggin' Orton. KYLE ORTON. He has done a respectable job but we all know he isn't the longterm answer. His abilities are limited and was just a respectable stop gap. He was the best QB he could get in a deal for Cutler. I fully expect another QB to be Drafted because we all know Simms is gone.

I have news for you. If the Broncos win tomorrow they'll have their first winning record since 2006 and it's possible that they can make the Playoffs. Despite all the ups and downs this year, nobody thought they'd have a winning year in McDaniels first season.

McDaniels is going to be around for awhile. You other people better get used to him and stop bitching already. Shit like this is getting old. It's friggin' nauseating.

Thank you for your passionate answer. To answer your question, yes. I complained about Shanahan's lack of defense all the time. I can't think of anyone who didn't. There were a lot of us that were excited when Jim Bates was brought onboard. He got one year didn't do it, and was gone. All of us complained about Bob Slowik - before the Broncos even played a game. We knew he was a Shanahan puppet, nothing more.

Shazam!
01-02-2010, 11:09 PM
WAIT- I MUST ADD THIS-

Believe you me, this was his first year. If there isn't improvement and a new QB (he'll get leverage if he's grooming Brandy or another rookie however) by 2010-11, you watch how fast I'll call for his head. He gets a pass for now with circumstances as they are. For NOW.

He didnt come into the Denver AFC Pro Bowl team when he arrived. I understand it's a work in progress.

BroncoTech
01-03-2010, 12:17 AM
We as fans can't help notice that integrity and dedication have dissolved from the NFL over the last decade entirely. We watch players quitting on plays, or making a tackle after a 5 yard gain and celebrating like your grand slam just won the world series. We hear about players in the NBA pulling guns on each other or maybe about domestic violence or accidentally shooting themselves. We don't like that the pro sports have turned out to be a magnet for thugs and gangsters and quitters.

Then old school Josh comes in and people said we couldn't win without Cutler, but winning isn't about one player in the NFL. Josh is trying to build a team and that starts with a sound foundation. If Josh wants to clean house after having the likes of Travis Henry on our team I'm all for it. There are too many hungry players that will be team players to put up with any of this over paid riff-raff.

Brandon Marshall is great fun to watch as a fan, but the enjoyment of watching him is stained from the stigma of wondering 'what's he going to pull next'. Personally I'm tired of these stained players and their crappy work ethic. if Josh sends a few of them packing we'll be a better team for it. Just like we can't win without Cutler, we'll still play a bit harder and even in a loss we can keep our head high knowing we gave it all for the team.

getlynched47
01-03-2010, 12:18 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4791500


McDaniels' decision to bench Marshall and Scheffler 48 hours before the most pivotal game of the season didn't sit well in Denver's locker room, where teammates were irked by the timing of the move.

Anyone who chose to speak for the record, however, was diplomatic, choosing not to take sides publicly.

"Irking" your players before the biggest game of our season sounds like a great strategy to win :elefant:

ikillz0mbies
01-03-2010, 12:24 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4791500



"Irking" your players before the biggest game of our season sounds like a great strategy to win :elefant:

Totally the worst time to make these moves, and the irking of the locker room doesn't make it any prettier.

I really hope McDaniels knows what hes doing, as I've been supporting his ass since 'you know who' got traded. If he loses his players, there is no doubt he will be losing the fans as well. I know he's young and it's his first year as a head coach, but it is getting to the point where it is just ridiculous.

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 12:25 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4791500



"Irking" your players before the biggest game of our season sounds like a great strategy to win :elefant:

This sounds like a writer trying to stir shit up. Unless he gives quotes from unhappy players, I take that as nothing but pure speculation.

getlynched47
01-03-2010, 12:29 AM
This sounds like a writer trying to stir shit up. Unless he gives quotes from unhappy players, I take that as nothing but pure speculation.

It's posted from ESPN, so it must be true :coffee:

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 12:30 AM
It's posted from ESPN, so it must be true :coffee:

Yeah, because ESPN NEVER tries to stir shit up! :lol:

NightTrainLayne
01-03-2010, 12:52 AM
Yeah, because ESPN NEVER tries to stir shit up! :lol:

Especially Bill Williamson. .. :ranger:

getlynched47
01-03-2010, 01:03 AM
Yeah, because ESPN NEVER tries to stir shit up! :lol:


Especially Bill Williamson. .. :ranger:

ESPN is 100% true all the time.

Remember when Chris Mortensen all but guaranteed that Mike Shanahan was the new head coach in Kansas City?

Like I said, they're 100% perfect, dependable, and always right :elefant:

BroncoWave
01-03-2010, 01:05 AM
Or when Kirk Herbstreit was 100% positive that Les Miles was the new coach at Michigan. Gotta love that ESPN "reporting"! :lol:

Medford Bronco
01-03-2010, 01:07 AM
IMO Your coach is doing what he thinks gives this team the best chance at winning...that answer is probably one that has been over used a bit but he wants the team to win just like the players and fans do.

Also one would think an NFL coach has more of a pulse of his team over some message board coach wannabes right:confused:

but wait we are there with Brandon Marsall, Sheffler, the OC and everone one else correct

McD is not without his faults but if you told me on Aug 31 we would have a chance at at playoff spot I would say you have rocks in your head.

Orton has outplayed the overrated Qb in Chic.

this team is about where they should be with the talent here IMHO

They need some more upgrades at OL and the DL and could use more consistency on offense as well. I hope for that to happen in the 2010 season.

getlynched47
01-03-2010, 01:11 AM
Or when Kirk Herbstreit was 100% positive that Les Miles was the new coach at Michigan. Gotta love that ESPN "reporting"! :lol:

Oh, don't get me started on Chris Mortensen, the guy is a freakin moron and the epitomy of reporting fail.

Like how Chris Mortensen reported that Shanahan was going to cut Brandon Marshall, but the Denver Post had sources that said otherwise.

Or how he said Parcells would go to Atlanta...guaranteed

Or how he reported that Brett Favre was officially retired, for good...twice.

Gotta love ESPN

silkamilkamonico
01-03-2010, 01:13 AM
How come so many people think McD is doing the right thing? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start a bashing or hating thread here, I just can't seem to get my hands around this coach and why everyone is defending him so much. Is it loyalty to the team and he's the "face-of-the-franchise" by default? Is it the way the team is playing? Is it the way he handles personnel decisions? Is it the offensive scheme? Is it because he was successful in NE as the OC so it's going to translate here we just need to give him some more time?

I want opinions and explanations here, not just hate mongering. I just have a really hard time showing a lot of support for a guy who drove Cutler out, is driving Scheffler and Marshall out, and has all but phased Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis out of his offense.

Please explain it like I'm a 4 year old because I just don't get it. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here. You'll get no arguement from me here, I just want to know why.

Thanks.

In a serious answer, we don't know what's been going on behind closed doors.

Here are some things we do know:

1) all the players that have butted heads with McDaniels are all Shanahan guys.

2) Shanahan held his players hand, which in turn led to players with no resiliency, which in turn has showed us they have no concept of whats going on with the organization professionally (in a business manner).

3) all these guys were solid stars under Shanahan's regime. Shanahan's 24-24 regime with these "stars". SHanahan and his "stars" led the organization to 0 playoff appearances.

Maybe McDaniels is trying to change the culture of the organization from the loose leaf creampuff it's been, and these guys are having a hard time with it.

You can sit here and question all you want, but let's not sit here and pretend McDaniels is butting heads with players that are accostumed to winning.

I think the guys are just "soft". Not in a a physical playing well. But in a preparation work hard for what you want, earn what you get way.

McDaniels has "struggled" to possibly a 9-7 record. With all this turmoil.

That's how good of a coach this guy can be. I would rather he gets the team he wants, rather than Bowlen babying the players into getting another coach, and then go through all this again.

Soft, self entitled, chicldish babies, IMHO.

pnbronco
01-03-2010, 02:01 AM
BroncoTech and NTL, just great posts, Med and Silk too, it too me so long to write this book. Not sure how guys can write in so few words....:D

As a long term fan I've seen a lot of ups and downs with the team. During all that time I have chosen to support the team. My form of support is to buy season tickets, to buy jersey's, to watch the games on TV when they are out of town, or try to pick up the game on the radio if I'm traveling. I do not own the Denver Broncos, so I do not get to pick who plays or works there. If I chose to no longer support this team then I will stop buying tickets to the game and so forth.

I didn't have to travel with my business in Aug so I ended up going to camp every day that it was open to the public. I've gone for years, but this one was different. At the beginning it was a bunch of players showing up for work, but the end I could see those players turning into a team, that had each others backs.

I also saw that Coach would allow the players to have their young families out there and provide a cook out for them on several occasions. It allowed the players to be husbands and dads after a hard day of focusing on their jobs, the sounds of laughter were just music to the ears.

He would look at each player in the eye and tell them what he wanted from them in reps. He would demo a play if that player was not getting the jest of it. They would run fundamental drill after fundamental drill and he expected it to be done correctly. Also the position coaches were allowed to do their job and keep the players in line and focus on what ever drill they were preforming. If it was a kick off then everyone was expected to run the full length of the field, not just go through the motions.

Also as a fan I have never been treated with such respect. We were allowed to walk in at the given time and pick a place to sit with in the outline area. In years past we had security dictate everything when you could walk out, where you could sit, just a bunch of do's and don't like a grade school class. This year there were clear boundaries but we were treated like adults. It's a little thing but he allowed us to take food out there for the evening practice. So you could pick something up and eat if before the practice started. He had a man come through and clean up any trash as the practice progressed. Last year fans would get thrown out for bring in a bag of chips.

I do not believe that Coach is trying to hurt the team. He was raised with the believe that no player is better than the team and has set that as a boundary for the team. The man I saw on that field was not a my way or a highway person, I've known more than my share in my life. I saw a man with a plan and doing his best to get everyone on that same page.

He was not hired by the owner to destroy this team, he was hired to make it better than it was and build for the future. I think he is doing that. I see heart out there on the field again. I see a D that is wrapping up and makes tackles. I also see that they are on a learning curve and sometimes run into each other. They are still learning how to "do their job" and not try to do too much. I saw so much special team work this summer, we aren't there yet, but it's in the plan.

In my life I have never seen anyone do a better job when there were called names, esp nasty ones. So I will choose to support this team and everyone on it.

Shazam!
01-03-2010, 02:10 AM
ESPN is an absolute ****ing joke. They're like bandwagoners.

pnbronco
01-03-2010, 02:45 AM
I don't want to turn this into a Cutler thread, but when I heard that Marshall had the same agent it got me thinking of how much did Cutler gain by leaving Denver. I just think there's more to a story than what we see. So I googled and found this:

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=cutler&player=4067


Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary
2009 Bears $ 14,944,090 $ 0 $ 100,000 $ 15,044,090
2008 Broncos $ 647,500 $ 0 $ 5,850,000 $ 6,497,500




This is what Orton is getting this year, so I keep that in mind too....


2009 Broncos $ 995,000 $ 0 $ 100,000 $ 1,095,000

OK one last thing, dooms salary who has been a class act the whole time...

2009 Broncos $ 535,000 $ 0 $ 5,980 $ 540,980

Ziggy
01-03-2010, 03:47 AM
Let me give the original question in this thread a shot.

Coach McD took over a team that was soft, unprofessional, undertalented as a whole, and mentally weak. Yes, he replaced a bunch of players. The problem is, he can't replace all of the players he got rid of with the kind of players he wants in one offseason. He had to settle for something in between with most of them. It's a lot like trying to get a muddy shirt clean with dirty water. The shirt will be a little bit cleaner, but until you wash it in completely clean water, it's always going to come out dirty, just less so than before. When coach has a few years to bring in the players he wants to, then I'll judge how clean the shirt is. If this team is still collapsing down the stretch after his own guys are in, I'll be calling for his head along with everyone else. Until then, I don't expect a whole lot of change in the final product, especially after only 1 offseason.

As far as the Marshall incident goes, opinions vary. Here's mine. Coach needs to change the culture and attitude on this team, and to do that, no amount of compromise will suffice. If a player is not on board with the team concept, then the rest of the team, fans, and coaching staff need to know that it will not be tolerated. Period. We don't know what was done or said in the locker room. I'll take the captain's word for what should happen:
Co-captain Daniel Graham said that while Marshall has been a good teammate this year, McDaniels was doing what was in the team's best interests.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4788055
Graham knows exactly what has been going on behind closed doors, and he's backing the coach. I'll take his word for it before I take Marshall's.

Let's address the Sheffler comments. While Tony seems to be a superstar in the hearts of fans around these message boards, he has been a complete liability in both run and pass blocking. When he is thrown to, he's been average at best. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. He deserves to sit on the bench. I'd rather have Quinn in, who can at least contribute with solid blocking. Tony thinks that the coach owes him playing time for keeping his mouth shut and practicing. If that were the case, I could be in the NFL.

Has McD made mistakes? Sure he has, he's a rookie head coach. I choose to look at the overall picture, and I like what he's creating here in Denver. Time will tell, but for now I'll back my coach until he gets his own guys in here and fails with them.

Despite all that's happened, this team is going to finish 8-8 or 9-7. That's with a new system on both sides of the ball, a huge roster change, and a tougher schedule. I don't care if we went 8-0 to start the season, I'm happy with the final outcome. The offense has been horrible this season. The defense has been very very good. I'll take a team with a good defense and bad offense over a team with a good offense and bad defense any day of the week and twice on Sundays. This team is headed in the right direction. I have no doubt that coach will bolster the LOS during the offseason, and we'll see more improvement next year.

Italianmobstr7
01-03-2010, 04:22 AM
I'm on Mcd's side as well. It's because he's the head coach, the big cheese. He makes the decisions and I support (most of) them.

I think most people know here that I'm a HUGE Brandon Marshall backer. I have my reasons for this. BMarsh is the ONLY player I've ever really wanted the Broncos to draft in the 3rd round or later that we actually did. I told people the guy was going to be a star when some people didn't know who he was. He's the only person who's authentic jersey I have.

Even in this instance though, I'm siding with McDaniels. He knows what's going on behind closed doors and we don't. I'll take his word for it. Although I do believe that Marshall was hurt and the thinking was that he couldn't play I sort of wish that he would have tried. If McD says that there are players playing with worse injuries than his, then he should try his absolute hardest to play in the biggest game of the season to date.

As for Scheffler, I like him a lot as well but he's had his panties in a bunch since the offseason. Maybe if he would accept his role and play it to the best of his abilities he wouldn't be benched. Reports are he was talking about wanting out of Denver and questioning the coach/playcalling after the Eagles game, that shit won't fly with McDaniels. It's okay for the media/fans to question the playcalling but the players should NOT question it at all.

I don't think that Royal has been outcast in Mcdaniels offense on purpose. I just think he's having a sophomore slump. I think he'll find his groove in the offense more next season. It sucks because he showed so much promise last year and his production has slipped a ton, but I think he'll get his swag back.

As for Peyton Hillis, I don't care. I don't like to get in to arguments about the guy. I like him, but I like Knowshon more. I agree that on 3rd and short Knowshon hasn't been getting 1st downs but it's more on the o-line than it is on Knowhson. I've counted numerous times the defenses dlineman in our backfield almost before Moreno even gets the ball in his hands. Even Hillis would have trouble. If Hillis gets some more carries, great, if not that's okay too. I do hope we utilize his receiving skills more though. He's got some great hands for a fb/rb.

So basically that's it. McD is the coach, and I support him 100% until he gives me a reason not to. It would take a losing season or 2 at least although I will say I'll be very upset if we get rid of Marshall, but I'll get over it. I support the ORANGE AND BLUE. I support the LOGO and the COLORS. I support the players that WANT TO PLAY IN DENVER and the players that DO PLAY IN DENVER and that's why as long as McD is the Broncos coach, I'll be on his side.

Dzone
01-03-2010, 05:02 AM
Nothing wrong with criticizing Mcdaniels. Some people act like youre indicting the entire franchise by not agreeing with the coaches behavior. THIS COACH DESERVES TO BE CRITICIZED. Its clear that many fans have blind obedience. Thats fine, but they dont need to get pissy with people who dont care for Mcds blantant immaturity and repeated blunders. MCDANIELS WAS OUT OF LINE BY PUBLICLY IMPUGNING MARSHALLS INTEGRITY. Coaches who do these things usually dont stick around very long.

sneakers
01-03-2010, 05:23 AM
I trust that he is doing the right thing, because 1) it is his job 2) he is around the team 90000012% more than any of us, and he could make better judgements 3) much more fun to be a bronco fan if you believe your team is headed in the right dirrection.

Dzone
01-03-2010, 06:02 AM
Last year, I couldnt wait to watch what Cutler might do on Sunday. This year I couldnt wait to see what Marshall might do on Sunday. Fans watch PLAYERS, not just games, and get upset when they dont get to see them play, be it injury or "coaches decision".

I have a friend, a huge BMarsh fan, who was going to the game sunday with a Marshall sign. I told her the coach deactivated him. . She was totally bummed. She doesnt get to go to games very often and she spent good money for those tickets to go and sit in the endzone seats with her Marshall Zone sign.

McD not only disrespected his players, but he has disrespected fans by deactivating and criticizing significant players. Those fans pay hard earned money to go and watch players they want to see. At 33, many men have not gained enough maturity to be able to handle enormous responsibility and its related drama and controversy. At 33, I was an established professional in my field, but I also made some dreadful mistakes in response to stressful situations. We gain wisdom over years of experience. With all do respect, it appears this guy is gifted in some areas and completely inept in others. An experienced coach is less likely to talk shit about players in the media. Those players learned second hand and deserved to be confronted first by Mcdaniels, face to face. His handling of these MEN was abhorent. Those players have every right to be pissed.. Imagine what Terrel Owens would be doing right now. Maybe doing situps in his driveway for the national media? Maybe calling a press conference with a gangsta hat and shades? So far, Marshalls response has been pretty damn good, considering how he was disrespected by his childish coach.

Northman
01-03-2010, 09:54 AM
How come so many people think McD is doing the right thing? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start a bashing or hating thread here, I just can't seem to get my hands around this coach and why everyone is defending him so much. Is it loyalty to the team and he's the "face-of-the-franchise" by default? Is it the way the team is playing? Is it the way he handles personnel decisions? Is it the offensive scheme? Is it because he was successful in NE as the OC so it's going to translate here we just need to give him some more time?

I want opinions and explanations here, not just hate mongering. I just have a really hard time showing a lot of support for a guy who drove Cutler out, is driving Scheffler and Marshall out, and has all but phased Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis out of his offense.

Please explain it like I'm a 4 year old because I just don't get it. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here. You'll get no arguement from me here, I just want to know why.

Thanks.

I would explain it too you but because you hated the guy from day one i just dont think it would sink in. You just cant teach the naive and ignorant.

claymore
01-03-2010, 10:06 AM
I would explain it too you but because you hated the guy from day one i just dont think it would sink in. You just cant teach the naive and ignorant.

If he doesnt work out it makes all of his supporters naive and ignorant right?

Northman
01-03-2010, 10:08 AM
If he doesnt work out it makes all of his supporters naive and ignorant right?

Depends. I personally have been objective with both his pro's and con's. However, those that sit on just the pro-Mcd side and those that sit on the anti-Mcd side will be the naive and ignorant ones. But, i think you and i know where you guys stand aint that right Clay. :coffee:

claymore
01-03-2010, 10:12 AM
Depends. I personally have been objective with both his pro's and con's. However, those that sit on just the pro-Mcd side and those that sit on the anti-Mcd side will be the naive and ignorant ones. But, i think you and i know where you guys stand aint that right Clay. :coffee:

I damn near hate the guy. But there is nothing I can do but stand here and watch things unfold.

If JMCD wants his guys in there, he got his wish today!

If he had a good offense Id probably support everything he has done, but Ive seen only the negative, and zero positives. No genius, no offensive juggernaut, just Bloodletting.

Nomad
01-03-2010, 10:14 AM
Depends. I personally have been objective with both his pro's and con's. However, those that sit on just the pro-Mcd side and those that sit on the anti-Mcd side will be the naive and ignorant ones. But, i think you and i know where you guys stand aint that right Clay. :coffee:

Gotta look at it from all sides!! But we're fans and will be naive and ignorant to a point because all we can do is speculate and eventually pick a side!!

Nomad
01-03-2010, 10:17 AM
I damn near hate the guy. But there is nothing I can do but stand here and watch things unfold.

If JMCD wants his guys in there, he got his wish today!

If he had a good offense Id probably support everything he has done, but Ive seen only the negative, and zero positives. No genius, no offensive juggernaut, just Bloodletting.

The Scheffler and Hillis thing I'm wonder about, but I believe Marshall has been looking forward to the end of the 2009 season since last Jan!!

Northman
01-03-2010, 10:20 AM
I damn near hate the guy. But there is nothing I can do but stand here and watch things unfold.

If JMCD wants his guys in there, he got his wish today!

If he had a good offense Id probably support everything he has done, but Ive seen only the negative, and zero positives. No genius, no offensive juggernaut, just Bloodletting.


At least your honest, ill give you that. A lot of the guys who talk shit try to play it off like they are being fair and reasonable. At least your up front so i give you mad props for being honest. I dont care who the coach is as i will give them the opportunity to do what they need to do. I hated Phillips when he was coaching but still gave him the chance to succeed. In the end he couldnt do it and if McD cant do it he too will be replaced. But, one year just isnt enough time for any coach yet some want him gone already. Its ok to like certain players, i get that. But in the end its about the team and winning and thats all i care about. If in the next couple of years McD cant get us back on track then it will be time to look elsewhere. But he should be able to do it his way. I know if any of us were coaching we would be doing it our way as well so its hypocritical for some of the people on this board to constantly cry about some of the changes that are being made. If McD thinks what he is doing is best for the team than let him do it. In the end he's the one that has to answer for the moves if they dont work out. The Broncos will always be here as will I win or lose.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 10:26 AM
I would explain it too you but because you hated the guy from day one i just dont think it would sink in. You just cant teach the naive and ignorant.

So apparently, I'm naive and ignorant now? Okay, have it your way. I just thought I'd ask the question. I've recognized the pros and cons of McDs philosophy myself. I think you're confusing my dislike of Orton as our starting QB as a dislike of McD. I have given McD a chance. I hated the Cutler trade, but it happened and I'm still here. I loved the signing of Mike Nolan and Brian Dawkins. I dislike that McD thinks he's Bellichick jr, I'm still here. I really don't like that any time he gets in front of a microphone he seems to belittle someone on the team, but I'm still here - ignorance and naivete and all.

Right now, I think McD has made more bad decisions than good ones, that's why I was having a hard time understanding why people seem to like this guy so much and "trust in him" even with the state of the team right now. That's why I was hoping for real answers, not just a bunch of personal attacks on this thread and I've gotten many so far, but as I figured some folks take it personally when you disagree with them. So be it, I'm ignorant and naive I guess.

Northman
01-03-2010, 10:29 AM
So be it, I'm ignorant and naive I guess.

See, isnt being honest make you feel better?

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 10:32 AM
See, isnt being honest make you feel better?

Sure does, but it's a 2 way street, brother. Be honest with yourself and maybe you'll feel better, too.

Ziggy
01-03-2010, 10:35 AM
You've only gotten one personal attack in this thread, and Clay came in to defend you immediately. Now you started the thread to read the opinions. You've read them. Like what you've read or not, you asked for it, and everyone with the exception of North has been respectful in responding. Why don't you adress the ones who have.

Bronco Bible
01-03-2010, 10:40 AM
I did not read every reply in this thread but here goes.........
Brett Farve is imo a prime example of why McD is doing this.. bear with me he is saying this is a TEAM called the Denver Broncos not the Brandon Marshalls and the coaches name is not Brandon......Old school the way it should be.jmo

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 10:45 AM
You've only gotten one personal attack in this thread, and Clay came in to defend you immediately. Now you started the thread to read the opinions. You've read them. Like what you've read or not, you asked for it, and everyone with the exception of North has been respectful in responding. Why don't you adress the ones who have.

I tried to do that at the end of the reply to North. I really am enjoying and gaining insight from others by reading their responses, I figured that I'd read a little more and get a better perspective before I reply with any definitiveness. NTM, I just logged on so I'm still reading through. I was worried at first that no one would reply to this thread thinking that it was just another whiner thread, but I'm glad some folks have.

Ziggy
01-03-2010, 10:51 AM
You started this thread with a great attitude. I think you'll find that when you do that on this forum, you'll get great results nearly every time.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2010, 11:01 AM
You started this thread with a great attitude. I think you'll find that when you do that on this forum, you'll get great results nearly every time.

That's what I've tried to do this whole thread. I made it clear in the initial post that I was looking for real answers and not hating or personal attacks. I realize there's been some of it, not by me - I didn't attack Northman when he called me ignorant and naive. I could have, but I didn't. I want his thoughts. If it's because I'm ignorant and naive, so be it.

Thusfar there have been some thoughtful, insightful posts and some not so much. There's been some passionate ones and some that aren't. There have been good reasons, and some that I've felt are lacking in substance. You'll note that if someone made a thoughtful, non attacking, non hateful post, I high-fived them for taking the time to reply. I've pretty much ignored the ones where guys are arguing or hating.

This isn't a thread for guys like me, who aren't big supporters, to vent. there's plenty of those already and I'm a part of them. In this thread, I wanted to hear the McD supporters side of the story and why they thought he's the guy for the job after an offseason and 15 games. That's what I hoped for. I'm having a hard time believing in him right now and I thought some futher insight on the matter would help. I've posted before that I wasn't here for the 6-0 run. I got home to watch from the bye week on. that's really what I have to base my opinions on. I saw the offseason, the Cincy game, then skipped to the Baltimore game.

girler
01-03-2010, 03:31 PM
...That's what I hoped for. I'm having a hard time believing in him right now and I thought some futher insight on the matter would help. I've posted before that I wasn't here for the 6-0 run. I got home to watch from the bye week on. that's really what I have to base my opinions on. I saw the offseason, the Cincy game, then skipped to the Baltimore game.

Oh bummer for you! No wonder you are unhappy! EVERYONE was drinking the orange and blue kool-aid by the end of that 6-0 run. And behold, it was found to be very delicious. :beer: And lo, much hollaring :elefant: and merry-making :clap2: :dancing: :whoo: ensued.

McD, mayhap, could produce that 6-0 again, and yea, extend it to 10-0 or perchance, 14-0! :pray: :angel: :saint: :faint: