DeSean Jackson

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I was wondering what everyone thought about the potential for Shanny to shock the world and draft DeSean Jackson. I understand that most, if not all, would vomit if his name was called at 12, but this isn't necessarily about that. The question is...could you see Shanny drafting him?

At first I thought no way. However, as I was writing my post in another thread about landing the biggest playmaker available, his name kept popping up in my head. Although, he would likely need the typical 3 years to develop into a legit NFL receiver, he is a hellion in the open field and would be an instant upgrade as a returnman. After what Shanny saw first hand in Chicago this year, I wouldn't put it past him to take a chance at someone as explosive as Jackson. JWalk's future is in doubt in Denver and Stokley isn't young so WR can be considered a need position. I personally think we're OK at WR for now, but not everyone agrees with that. Mind you, I'm not a proponent of bringing him in, but I COULD see Shanny rolling the dice.

At the very least, it could make for interesting discussion during these, the boring days, of the offseason.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

DeSean Jackson
Height: 6-0 | Weight: 172 | 40-Time: 4.45

Strengths:
An outstanding natural athlete...Excellent speed with a fantastic burst...Extremely elusive and is a terror in the open field...Great quickness and agility...Good hands and will make the tough catch...A legitimate deep threat who can stretch the field vertically...Good leaper with nice body control and ball skills...Versatile and can be utilized in a number of different ways...Decent production...Electrifying return man.

Weaknesses:
Undersized and doesn't have the bulk you look for...Inconsistent and disappeared from games at times...Is not very strong or physical...Will drop the occasional ball due to lack of focus...A sub par blocker...Can still improve as a route runner...May have some typical star receiver character concerns...Durability might be a concern.

Notes:
His brother, Byron, played professional football with the NFL's Kansas City Chiefs in 1992-93...An outstanding baseball player in high school who had Major League potential...Was hampered by a thumb injury in 2007..Scored 28 touchdowns in 36 career college games and 23% of his touches went for 20 yards or more...Awfully similar to Ted Ginn, Jr. when he was coming out last year but is more polished as a wideout and an even better return man..One of the most dynamic offensive and special teams weapons in this draft...He may never be a true #1 target in the NFL but he's the type of elite playmaker who is sure to keep defenses awake at night

[dogfish]

i'm already on record saying we could very well take him. . . . :frusty:

[shank]

i would indeed be one of the pukers you speak of. how hard did we all laugh when the dolphins selected ginn? how hard will the rest of the league laugh and how hard will we cry if we end up taking a 175 lb KR who may or may not become an effective receiver, and who doesn't fit our style of offense (in that he doesn't block well at all).

i think i would take the time to write shanny an angry letter. and i've never written a letter to anyone ever.

[Scarface]

Not my first choice but we could really use him on ST's. Plus I want to add a speedster opposite of B-Marsh.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/WR/DeSean_Jackson_1_WSU.jpg

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't personally think Ginn was that awful of a pick. I saw at least 2 return TDs called back due to penalty and my buddy who is a fins fan tells me he has had a number of very solid returns which the O could not take advantage of. Time will tell with him, but it's nice to start on the 40 from time to time.

[dogfish]

I don't personally think Ginn was that awful of a pick. I saw at least 2 return TDs called back due to penalty and my buddy who is a fins fan tells me he has had a number of very solid returns which the O could not take advantage of. Time will tell with him, but it's nice to start on the 40 from time to time.

yea, but how many teams start on the 40 from time to time WITHOUT spending a top twelve pick to do it?



:lol:

[lex]

DeSean Jackson
Height: 6-0 | Weight: 172 | 40-Time: 4.45

Strengths:
An outstanding natural athlete...Excellent speed with a fantastic burst...Extremely elusive and is a terror in the open field...Great quickness and agility...Good hands and will make the tough catch...A legitimate deep threat who can stretch the field vertically...Good leaper with nice body control and ball skills...Versatile and can be utilized in a number of different ways...Decent production...Electrifying return man.

Weaknesses:
Undersized and doesn't have the bulk you look for...Inconsistent and disappeared from games at times...Is not very strong or physical...Will drop the occasional ball due to lack of focus...A sub par blocker...Can still improve as a route runner...May have some typical star receiver character concerns...Durability might be a concern.

Notes:
His brother, Byron, played professional football with the NFL's Kansas City Chiefs in 1992-93...An outstanding baseball player in high school who had Major League potential...Was hampered by a thumb injury in 2007..Scored 28 touchdowns in 36 career college games and 23% of his touches went for 20 yards or more...Awfully similar to Ted Ginn, Jr. when he was coming out last year but is more polished as a wideout and an even better return man..One of the most dynamic offensive and special teams weapons in this draft...He may never be a true #1 target in the NFL but he's the type of elite playmaker who is sure to keep defenses awake at night

Not a chance.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If Devin Hester was placed back into the draft...you don't think he'd go top 10? My guess is he'd go #1 overall. THAT is why Miami went after Ginn so early...and Ginn should be a better WR when it's all said and done.

[dogfish]

If Devin Hester was placed back into the draft...you don't think he'd go top 10? My guess is he'd go #1 overall. THAT is why Miami went after Ginn so early...and Ginn should be a better WR when it's all said and done.


devin hester is absolutely unique-- he is the best returner to ever play the game of football, end of story-- no one else even deserves to be compared to him. . . .


statistically, ginn wasn't a better returner than aundrae allison or steve breaston. . .




honestly, go back and read that scouting report again. . . . before the devin hester phenomenon, this guy was roscoe parrish, and got drafted where he belonged. . . in the 2nd or 3rd round. . . .

[JONtheBRONCO]

Maybe not an OT like we need, or a Linebacker or Defensive lineman, but he would give a spark to our special teams play. With Jackson we get a great return man, something the Broncos have lacked for years. We also get a deep threat opposite of Marshall. This could help Jay's progress too, allowing some of those deep throws we as fans have been craving. Remember that 72 yard bomb 2 years ago at Arizona, Jay to Javon? I want that again.

May not be the best value at #12, but I wouldn't throw my can of chew at the TV (Willie Middlebrooks) if his name was called for the Broncos.

Here are some videos I found while browsing youtube, dude looks like he could help out our ST immediately (I'd hope at least). Music is terrible for the first video, just a warning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg5EQcXuD7k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXSzia2Zfg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7_5SFxyniY&feature=related

Enjoy!

[dogfish]

more than anything, i think it's just an indictment of how truly terrible our ST has been that people would even consider a return specialist with the potential for the occasional big play from the slot as a legitimate option at #12. . . . you just don't need to spend 1st round picks to get ST help, and no good team drafts that way-- when was the last time indy, san diego or new england spent a high 1st rounder on a part-time player/return specialist? last year, the second-best returner in the league was an undrafted quarterback from kent state. . . .


i have said many times, and will continue to say, that this team will never be any kind of serious contender until we get tougher and more physical, particularly in the trenches. . . if we spend #12 overall on a 170 pound sissy, we fully deserve to get two more 40 point bitch-slappings from san diego and finish 7-9 again. . . .

[JONtheBRONCO]

more than anything, i think it's just an indictment of how truly terrible our ST has been that people would even consider a return specialist with the potential for the occasional big play from the slot as a legitimate option at #12. . . . you just don't need to spend 1st round picks to get ST help, and no good team drafts that way-- when was the last time indy, san diego or new england spent a high 1st rounder on a part-time player/return specialist? last year, the second-best returner in the league was an undrafted quarterback from kent state. . . .


i have said many times, and will continue to say, that this team will never be any kind of serious contender until we get tougher and more physical, particularly in the trenches. . . if we spend #12 overall on a 170 pound sissy, we fully deserve to get two more 40 point bitch-slappings from san diego and finish 7-9 again. . . .

Not a bad point.

[shank]

dog, i can't think of anything right now that i agree more with than what you just wrote. and that's why i would be livid if we took him at 12.

[dogfish]

alright, i think this thing is already dead, but i've just gotta make sure. . . . :deadhorse:


doing a bit of reading on jackson, i discovered an intersting factoid-- this guy doesn't even have any experience as a kick returner. . . he only returned punts in college. . . i'll concede the point that he has the skill set to be a damn fine kick returner without argument, but this year he returned a grand total of two kicks for 38 yards (19.0 average). . . .


soooo, if we're going to take a returner with the #12 pick, why not take one who returned 23 kicks for 614 yards (26.7 average) this past year? one who, coincidentally, also has the chance to be one of the best running backs in the NFL. . . .


seriously, do you want to spend #12 on this pathetic twig:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1969/deseanjacksonbr9.png


or this hoss:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4270/stewarths9.jpg


:questionmark: :questionmark:


before you answer, let me remind you, because i don't want to leave it out, that jackson was also an explosive punt returner in college, while stewart wasn't. . . . let me also remind you that glenn martinez had a higher punt return average than ted ginn, and scored just as many touchdowns. . .

and nobody even mention travis busted down henry, who should consider himself damn lucky that he's going to get another year here. . . .


for even more fun, let's compare jackson's recieving stats from the past year against reshard mendenhall's. . .

mendenhall - 34-318 (9.4 average), 2 TDs

jackson - 65-762 (11.7 average), 6 TDs



this bigtime playmaker barely doubled the recieving production of one of the top running back prospects! of course, mendenhall did redeem himself by rushing for 1,681 yards and 17 touchdowns. . . .



honestly, aside from a quarterback you'd be hard pressed to name a projected 1st rounder who i'd consider a worse pick than jackson-- of course, we'll probably consider him "too good to pass on". . . . :frusty:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Jackson's threat as a returner is the reason his value is so high because he's lethal there. Otherwise, he's just a second to third round guy. Then again, we could just get a guy like Avery 50-75 picks later if we were looking for a slot guy with return skills.

I don't mind Jackson at #12, he makes plays.

[Drill-N-Fill]

I'm not impressed with Jackson at all. I'd rather spend some money and draft pick on Stewart.

[mclark]

Who would have more value to our team AND special teams: Jonathan Stewart (starting running back and kickoff-returner) or Jackson (punt-returner and possible starter at wide receiver)?

[dogfish]

Who would have more value to our team AND special teams: Jonathan Stewart (starting running back and kickoff-returner) or Jackson (punt-returner and possible starter at wide receiver)?

long term?

stewart, no question at all in my mind. . . .



California WR DeSean Jackson measured in at 5'9/169 at the NFL Combine weigh-in.

This is significant. Jackson was listed at 6'0/172 during his Cal days. He still has superior explosiveness to hang his hat on, but teams may not view such a diminutive player as a legitimate outside receiver right away. Expect Jackson to fall at least to the bottom of the first round.
Source: draftheadquarters.com


i just can't see jackson holding up as a fulltime starter-- to me, he's a #3 and a completely one-dimensional one at that. . . . there's nothing to his game but speed. . . .

[SmilinAssasSin27]

devin hester is absolutely unique-- he is the best returner to ever play the game of football, end of story-- no one else even deserves to be compared to him. . . . statistically, ginn wasn't a better returner than aundrae allison or steve breaston. . .

honestly, go back and read that scouting report again. . . . before the devin hester phenomenon, this guy was roscoe parrish, and got drafted where he belonged. . . in the 2nd or 3rd round. . . .

1- Dante Hall, Via Sikehema (sp?)...there have been others as good as Hester.

2- Again, Ginn had a number of big returns called back...that worsens the stats a bit.

3- Jackson is dangerous. I never said he'd be a stud WR, but what he can do in the return game would help considerably. He should contribute at WR as well, but that's not what he'd be drafted for.

Jackson is far from my #1 choice, but yer being close minded if you don't think he can help Denver.

[dogfish]

1- Dante Hall, Via Sikehema (sp?)...there have been others as good as Hester.

no. . . he has done more in two years than hall did in a career. . . .


2- Again, Ginn had a number of big returns called back...that worsens the stats a bit.

every returner has some called back, and properly so if they were sprung by an illegal block. . .


3- Jackson is dangerous. I never said he'd be a stud WR, but what he can do in the return game would help considerably. He should contribute at WR as well, but that's not what he'd be drafted for.

Jackson is far from my #1 choice, but yer being close minded if you don't think he can help Denver.

call me closed-minded then, i'm cool with that. . . . seriously, can you name a single 1st round prospect outside of quarterback who wouldn't potentially help the team in some form? i see no way he helps us enough to justify a selection anywhere near that high. . . . if we can't find a freakin' punt returner without spending a top-12 pick, no wonder we're such a mediocre team. . . . if we draft desean jackson at 12, bowlen should fire shanahan, sundquist, and anyone else inviolved with the selection-- that night, before they can make our 2nd day picks! i don't care if he has to phone 'em in himself. . . .

[broncohead]

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/combine/buzz.html

For the most part we haven't had much big news come out of the weigh-in's but that changed this morning. Everyone knew that Cal WR DeSean Jackson didn't have the bulk you look for but he came in at only 167 lbs., which is 5 lbs. less than he was listed at in college. Making matters even worse though is that Jackson was only 5-9 3/4, over two inches shorter than anticipated.

I personally wouldn't take him in the 1st rd. If he is there in the 2nd it could be a posibility. No question he would help our return game though. One good hit from a 240 pound LB would crush him.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

call me closed-minded then, i'm cool with that. . . . seriously, can you name a single 1st round prospect outside of quarterback who wouldn't potentially help the team in some form? i see no way he helps us enough to justify a selection anywhere near that high. . . . if we can't find a freakin' punt returner without spending a top-12 pick, no wonder we're such a mediocre team. . . . if we draft desean jackson at 12, bowlen should fire shanahan, sundquist, and anyone else inviolved with the selection-- that night, before they can make our 2nd day picks! i don't care if he has to phone 'em in himself. . . .



the word used was "considerably"...not "in some form." He is explosive. He puts teams on their heels and forces mistakes by punters who try to kick away from him. Again, he's hardly my #1 guy, but as has been said before, this isn't the best draft to be sitting at #12 w/o needing a CB or RB. Given that Henry is apparently sataying, RB isn't a need...neither is CB. So...do we reach for LB, DT or S? Do we take a OT at 12 who is basically a carbon copy if the next 4 prospects behind him? I dunno the answer. I just think that Jackson could make at least as much of an immediate impact if not more so than any of the other guys at 12.

[broncohead]

the word used was "considerably"...not "in some form." He is explosive. He puts teams on their heels and forces mistakes by punters who try to kick away from him. Again, he's hardly my #1 guy, but as has been said before, this isn't the best draft to be sitting at #12 w/o needing a CB or RB. Given that Henry is apparently sataying, RB isn't a need...neither is CB. So...do we reach for LB, DT or S? Do we take a OT at 12 who is basically a carbon copy if the next 4 prospects behind him? I dunno the answer. I just think that Jackson could make at least as much of an immediate impact if not more so than any of the other guys at 12.

Good point. I would like us to trade back picking up extra picks. drading up (without selling the farm) is also an option to grab Ellis/Dorsey.

[dogfish]

the word used was "considerably"...not "in some form." He is explosive. He puts teams on their heels and forces mistakes by punters who try to kick away from him. Again, he's hardly my #1 guy, but as has been said before, this isn't the best draft to be sitting at #12 w/o needing a CB or RB. Given that Henry is apparently sataying, RB isn't a need...neither is CB. So...do we reach for LB, DT or S? Do we take a OT at 12 who is basically a carbon copy if the next 4 prospects behind him? I dunno the answer. I just think that Jackson could make at least as much of an immediate impact if not more so than any of the other guys at 12.

i'm more concerned with long term impact than immediate impact-- especially with a pick in the top half of the first round. . . . i'm looking for franchise building blocks, not part-time players. . . . seriously, every single year there are speedy return specialists taken in the middle rounds who make an immediate impact. . . give me stewart or mendenhall, with an OL (albert, cherilus, collins) or LB (wheeler, mayo) in the 2nd, or clady with a LB, DT (simms) or RB (charles) in the 2nd. . . . i'd take stewart or mendenhall over jackson even if you told me they wouldn't take a single snap this year. . . .

[Scarface]

Who would have more value to our team AND special teams: Jonathan Stewart (starting running back and kickoff-returner) or Jackson (punt-returner and possible starter at wide receiver)?

Yeah but do you see Shanny's starting RB returning kickoffs? Not me.

[Scarface]

1- Dante Hall, Via Sikehema (sp?)...there have been others as good as Hester.



Dude, c'mon. Look at TDs per return. Hester is so far above and beyond what other returners have done it's not even funny. He's like the Jordan of returners.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm not willing to call anyone the best ever after 2 years of service. Brian Mitchell was dominant via the return game for quite a long time. Not saying hester won't be, but I wanna see him do it for the long haul.

But that is getting off the point. I'm neither an advocate for nor a detractor of Jackson. It could be any returnman at 12...this year it happens to be Jackson. Given our needs, our draft position and the perceived "value" there, who sees an explosive returnman as a viable option at 12?

[Scarface]

I'm not willing to call anyone the best ever after 2 years of service. Brian Mitchell was dominant via the return game for quite a long time. Not saying hester won't be, but I wanna see him do it for the long haul.

But that is getting off the point. I'm neither an advocate for nor a detractor of Jackson. It could be any returnman at 12...this year it happens to be Jackson. Given our needs, our draft position and the perceived "value" there, who sees an explosive returnman as a viable option at 12?

We may able to get Jackson in RD2. His stock is going to drop unless he runs some crazy time tmorrow.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yeah...I actually started this before I heard he was plummeting...again, it was more about the concept than the specific player. The 12 spot SUX this year.

[Scarface]

Yeah...I actually started this before I heard he was plummeting...again, it was more about the concept than the specific player. The 12 spot SUX this year.

It's better than 13.:cool:

[Fan in Exile]

I found this article at the Mile High Report http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gDEbq7KEEpFcaBy5mqeiQ8BIvZMQ

Jerry Rice said, "He has all the talent in the world," Rice said while watching Cal's pro day from the sideline, his 1989 Super Bowl ring dangling from a chain around his neck. "There's no reason he can't be everything he wants to be at the next level."

After reading that I would be less pissed if we picked Desean Jackson at 12.

[LRtagger]

I dont think DeSean is worthy of a #12 pick. If he is still available in the 2nd, then it might not be a bad pick. IMO if we are going to select a WR on day one, we better be damn sure he is going to compete for the #2 position (or even definitely be the #2).

IMO if we are looking for a #3 or #4 guy that can return kicks, we can pick up Dexter Jackson in the 4th or 5th who is comparible in size to DeSean (5'-10", 182lb), but faster. I believe he ran an unofficial 4.27s 40 at the combine and an official 4.33.

I graduated from App in 05 (so i guess im a little biased) and have watched this guy play. He was a big reason for the three straight national titles and the big win over Michigan. If anybody saw the Michigan game, this was the kid that was outrunning everyone in their secondary (3 catches for 92 yards and 2 TD)

03/11/08 - As the NFL draft (April 26-27) sneaks ever closer, an area player has been shooting up draft boards. That would be Appalachian State wide receiver Dexter Jackson. Don't expect him to wind up a Panther; at 5-foot-9 and 182 pounds, he's not the bigger receiver Carolina is looking for to match with Steve Smith. His ability, though, may eventually be in Smith's neighborhood. Fresh from three straight national championships in Boone and a senior year that brought 8 TDs and 22.9 yards a catch, Jackson first began to open eyes with a strong performance at the East-West All-Star game. From there it was on to the NFL Scouting Combine, and with scouts finally paying attention, he continued to impress. While there, he turned in a fast 4.37 time in the 40-yard dash, ran crisp routes and showed good form in catching the ball. Along the way Jackson, whose Pro Day is scheduled for March 24 at Appalachian, has gone from a projected undrafted free agent to a player who could climb as high as the second round. That would probably be out of the Panthers' range, given their needs at other positions. If he drops though, expect that to change, because talent trumps height at his position. Anyway, expect to see Jackson playing somewhere in the NFL next year. - Stan Olson, Charlotte Observer

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Jackson's abilities as a receiver aren't worthy of the #12 selection, but his special teams impact and game breaking ability makes him a very tempting option at the selection. Would I be pissed? Maybe a little, but it's understandable.

Denver was pissed when they missed out on Hester by a few selections; which forced us to take Scheffler (who they rated highly anyways) instead.

Denver needs another receiver, and they need special teams help. Two birds with one stone, but then again - arguments can and will be made for a guy like Eddie Royal at #42; if we want to go that route. Logical argument as it stands as well.

[Mike]

Jackson's abilities as a receiver aren't worthy of the #12 selection, but his special teams impact and game breaking ability makes him a very tempting option at the selection. Would I be pissed? Maybe a little, but it's understandable.

Denver was pissed when they missed out on Hester by a few selections; which forced us to take Scheffler (who they rated highly anyways) instead.

Denver needs another receiver, and they need special teams help. Two birds with one stone, but then again - arguments can and will be made for a guy like Eddie Royal at #42; if we want to go that route. Logical argument as it stands as well.

Personally, I think Denver's STs problems run deeper than the return man and won't be fixed with just one guy...no matter how good he might be.

I will probably be off the Shanahan bandwagon if he drafts Jackson at #12.

[BOSSHOGG30]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/fperez00/Cal%20Football%202005/DSC00861.jpg

Who wouldn't want this guy...look at those huge arms!

[Requiem / The Dagda]

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog.

[BOSSHOGG30]

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog.

True... I actually think he is very good. I wouldn't be upset if we took him because of his size or the fact he is a wide reciever, I would be more upset that we passed up on Limas Sweed or Malcom Kelly if we are going wide out in the 1st round.

I understand Jackson value might be better because he is a very dangerous returner, which we need, but I would rather have a really good #2 weapon next to Marshall. I'm also fine with Andre Hall as a kick returner and Glenn Martinez as a punt returner till we find a later round guy that can exceed at both.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

My good buddy BPC at Orange Mane had this to say, he was at Cal's Pro Day.


I was at the Cal pro day. Football wise, he is mostly everything you want in a WR... fluid when moving on the field, easily the most athletic WR in the past 3-5 years at the position. He hits every route with such ease, its hard not to envy him. When the ball is thrown his way, he snaps his hands out and catches just like the way it should be taught on a video. I think for his size, he has huge hands too. I hate the term pluck but that is what he does. He has special football talents.

On the down side, he weighed in at 167lbs which had scouts shaking their heads. He also easily puts people off with his attitude and from what I gathered, not many of his Cal "buddies" like him at all. Actually they severely dislike him. A GB scout who was running the 3-cone drill told Jackson he had not run this at the combine and he should participate in it. He bristled at the thought and said he was saving his legs for position work. That rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. In fact, he does it often like it comes naturally to him. He eventually did the drill after scouts gave him crap after he ran the positional drills.

At 167lbs. it is hard to believe that he'll be running hard over the middle of the field for fear of getting whacked like he did against Ellison two years ago which knocked him out of the game vs. USC. He hasn't ran the same way going through the middle often short arming passes. That doesn't bode well for the NFL.

As a football player he is a much better player than Ted Ginn Jr. coming out last year. He is more instinctive, athletic, better hands, ect. Both have that speed to lift coverages. Still, it must be questioned if it is worth bringing an immature head case onto the roster no matter how talented he is. If he had a Randy Moss like stature, sure, consider him. He doesn't have that body though and with the weight that he does have, he'll have a hard time playing a 16 game schedule at his size.

Positives and negatives, like any prospect. Is the risk worth the reward? Who knows, but he's a game breaker, and we need playmakers. Obviously, I'd love other prospects at #12; perhaps even Kelly as the legit option next to Brandon - but I'd cheer this pick and support him the whole way.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Regarding Sweed; he didn't play much this year with the wrist injury; and I'd just stay away from him. Great prospect; but not worth it at #12. Not even close. Kelly > Sweed at #12.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Regarding Sweed; he didn't play much this year with the wrist injury; and I'd just stay away from him. Great prospect; but not worth it at #12. Not even close. Kelly > Sweed at #12.

I agree with you, plus I will go on to say I don't think any receiver is worthy of the 12th overall pick. Too high of a pick and too risky. OT, DT, or RB please.

I really hope we can trade back and pick up another pick. That would be gravy.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I agree with you, plus I will go on to say I don't think any receiver is worthy of the 12th overall pick. Too high of a pick and too risky. OT, DT, or RB please.

I really hope we can trade back and pick up another pick. That would be gravy.

You and I both dude, you and I both!

[lex]

12 is too high for Jackson. And like someone else said, we need to clean up other personnel problems on our special teams.

[G_Money]

Jackson = Ted Ginn Jr.

My jaw hit the floor when Miami blew the draft on that kid last year - I'd rather not be this year's Miami, thanks.

~G

[dogfish]

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog.

exactly! and that little alligator-armed sissy ain't got no fight in him. . . .


gimme dexter over desean any day. . . .

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Jackson = Ted Ginn Jr.

My jaw hit the floor when Miami blew the draft on that kid last year - I'd rather not be this year's Miami, thanks.

~G

Time will tell. Miami had no QB and no other weapons. He had a couple of return TDs and some other very nice returns called back due to penalty. He will need coached up at WR, but I think he'll be fine.

That being said...if DeSean is blowing off the people he is there to perform for, I don't want him.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

exactly! and that little alligator-armed sissy ain't got no fight in him. . . .


gimme dexter over desean any day. . . .

Very people here honestly can even say they've seen Dexter play, myself included. So I think it's really hard to even make that assessment. Measurables are comparable, but I don't think we can say that about their game play; unless we have Appalachian State die hards who can adequately tell us this.

DeSean is a gamer. If the guy didn't have any fight in him, he wouldn't take it to the house on returns. He wouldn't be an explosive weapon. Guys like Jackson are special and few and far between. He worked this year on becoming a more complete receiver, and despite a drop in numbers yardage and TD wise - had more receptions. He improved his overall game, and that's important.

DeSean's receiving skills are much better than Dexter's. Both are excellent returners, but it's quite obvious that DeSean has more upside. Unless, we're talking about "Dexter at #104 is better than DeSean at #12" which in that case, I'd probably believe -- but I don't see how anyone would want Dexter of DeSean, unless it was based on slot position.

DeSean is heads and shoulders the better player; and despite his size - being ranked as one of the top in the draft is really saying something. If the guy didn't have any fight in him; that wouldn't be the case -- but it is.

I like DeSean, and I seriously hope he'll be welcomed here if he's the selection. He's just that electrifying. He's a special player. If he was 6'0 - 195 pounds, we wouldn't be having this argument. He's 5'10 - 170; so we are.

Size is overrated. Sure; durability becomes an issue - but he's been healthy in college. Heck, people doubted Jones-Drew coming out of UCLA; and well. . . he seems to be doing fairly well. I think DeSean on most Broncos forums is judged by his size, and not how he plays on the game. I think that's how a lot of people view him; and most players.

The kid has "it" and that's what matters.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I can say I've seen Dexter play a few times. I'm a pretty big IAA (easier than the new title) fan as a am a Youngstown State graduate. Dude is electric and has been for years. The knock is always the level of competition, but he did play very well vs Michigan. Then again, Michigan graduated most of their D and they had a lot of new bodies trying to deal w/ that spread offense in week 1. I wouldn't be upset w/ Dexter in the 4th or 5th for the same reason I couldn't get too upset about DeSean til I learned he's a flaminf *******...we need a returnman.

[dogfish]

Very people here honestly can even say they've seen Dexter play, myself included. So I think it's really hard to even make that assessment. Measurables are comparable, but I don't think we can say that about their game play; unless we have Appalachian State die hards who can adequately tell us this.

DeSean is a gamer. If the guy didn't have any fight in him, he wouldn't take it to the house on returns. He wouldn't be an explosive weapon. Guys like Jackson are special and few and far between. He worked this year on becoming a more complete receiver, and despite a drop in numbers yardage and TD wise - had more receptions. He improved his overall game, and that's important.

DeSean's receiving skills are much better than Dexter's. Both are excellent returners, but it's quite obvious that DeSean has more upside. Unless, we're talking about "Dexter at #104 is better than DeSean at #12" which in that case, I'd probably believe -- but I don't see how anyone would want Dexter of DeSean, unless it was based on slot position.

DeSean is heads and shoulders the better player; and despite his size - being ranked as one of the top in the draft is really saying something. If the guy didn't have any fight in him; that wouldn't be the case -- but it is.

I like DeSean, and I seriously hope he'll be welcomed here if he's the selection. He's just that electrifying. He's a special player. If he was 6'0 - 195 pounds, we wouldn't be having this argument. He's 5'10 - 170; so we are.

Size is overrated. Sure; durability becomes an issue - but he's been healthy in college. Heck, people doubted Jones-Drew coming out of UCLA; and well. . . he seems to be doing fairly well. I think DeSean on most Broncos forums is judged by his size, and not how he plays on the game. I think that's how a lot of people view him; and most players.

The kid has "it" and that's what matters.



obviously, the michigan game is the only time i've seen dexter play, but i trust the opinions of scouts and draft experts more than my own anyways. . . he reportedly turned heads with his play at both the senior bowl practices and the east-west shrine game, and we know what he did against michgan-- he shows up when the competition is toughest. . . . i didn't like desean jackson as a 1st rounder when i thought he was 6', and i like him less now. . . i'll betcha a buck dexter makes a better pro. . .

[SmilinAssasSin27]

obviously, the michigan game is the only time i've seen dexter play, but i trust the opinions of scouts and draft experts more than my own anyways. . . he reportedly turned heads with his play at both the senior bowl practices and the east-west shrine game, and we know what he did against michgan-- he shows up when the competition is toughest. . . . i didn't like desean jackson as a 1st rounder when i thought he was 6', and i like him less now. . . i'll betcha a buck dexter makes a better pro. . .

I remember another WR who made his mark in his Bowl Game and post season all star/bowl game...we call him B-Marsh.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

obviously, the michigan game is the only time i've seen dexter play, but i trust the opinions of scouts and draft experts more than my own anyways. . . he reportedly turned heads with his play at both the senior bowl practices and the east-west shrine game, and we know what he did against michgan-- he shows up when the competition is toughest. . . . i didn't like desean jackson as a 1st rounder when i thought he was 6', and i like him less now. . . i'll betcha a buck dexter makes a better pro. . .

You got yourself a deal. :beer:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I remember another WR who made his mark in his Bowl Game and post season all star/bowl game...we call him B-Marsh.

Yeah, and I'll never forget Jim Goodman's statements saying how they "discovered" him at the Shrine Bowl (perhaps it was Hula) despite many teams having him ranked as one of their top sleepers. That had me concerned, but point well taken.

Neither of these Jackson's are our #2 solutions, but I'd be pleased with either. It just depends where, I guess.

[LRtagger]

DeSean's receiving skills are much better than Dexter's. Both are excellent returners, but it's quite obvious that DeSean has more upside. Unless, we're talking about "Dexter at #104 is better than DeSean at #12" which in that case, I'd probably believe -- but I don't see how anyone would want Dexter of DeSean, unless it was based on slot position.

DeSean is heads and shoulders the better player; and despite his size - being ranked as one of the top in the draft is really saying something. If the guy didn't have any fight in him; that wouldn't be the case -- but it is.


Wait a second...I thought we couldnt form an opinion on Dexter's skills because no one has seen him play enough....yet somehow his skills are inferior to DeSean's?



I like DeSean, and I seriously hope he'll be welcomed here if he's the selection. He's just that electrifying. He's a special player. If he was 6'0 - 195 pounds, we wouldn't be having this argument. He's 5'10 - 170; so we are.

If Dexter played for a big name school, we wouldnt be having this conversation either. HE would easily be a top 5 WR in the draft. The fact that he is coming from a small school like App dramatically hurts his draft position. I remember before the combine he was looked at as a 6th or 7th rounder...now I hear he is more a 3rd or 4th and could even go in the 2nd depending on how the rest of the draft goes. He hasnt had his Pro-Day yet either...which could shoot him up the board even further.

Personally, I think he would be a STEAL for us in the 4th or 5th, while I can't say I think DeSean would even be worth a 2nd round pick. Not to mention the ammount of money we would save on Dexter.

Dexter is faster, has comparible (if not better) size, all scouts are saying he ran great routes at the combine, he has proven himself (to those that have watched) at some huge games, he's not a little whiney bitch like DeSean, he had ZERO FUMBLES in his entire collegiate career, he had a fr/so running QB (Armanti Edwards) throwing to him his Jr/Sr years, etc.

I wouldnt be so quick to say DeSean is that much better than Dexter.

[LRtagger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeuCmr5dfns

^^ only highlight video i could find. Most of those clips were from his Jr year.

some Michigan highlights:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/dexter-jackson-catch/2738114366?icid=acvsv2
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/dexter-jackson-td-catch/1556531030?icid=acvsv1
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/dexter-jackson-run/1466123194?icid=acvsv2

USAToday Combine analysis:

Appalachian State's Dexter Jackson and Hawaii's Davone Bess were every bit as dynamic as DeSean Jackson during wide receiver drills. Dexter Jackson turned in among the elite 40s of the year (4.37) to go along with spectacular quickness and sure hands during drills. His ascension from a small school prospect to East-West Shrine Game standout to Senior Bowl late addition to combine star is one of the more intriguing stories (that no one seems to be talking about) of the 2008 draft.

Sorry to clog this up with Dexter trivia, but I have watched him play throughout his collegiate career an I can tell you that he is no joke. If he drops as low as the 4th or 5th rounds, whoever picks him up will be getting an amazing bargain. I hope we can pick him up on day two.

[Scarface]

If we want a WR then Devin Thomas is our guy. He'd fit in nicely in our offense. He's got nice size, speed, and run after the catch ability.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/WR/78113884.jpg

[BOSSHOGG30]

If we want a WR then Devin Thomas is our guy. He'd fit in nicely in our offense. He's got nice size, speed, and run after the catch ability.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/WR/78113884.jpg

4. Devin Thomas, Michigan State

Height/Weight: 6'2/217
College Experience: Fourth-year junior
Combine Results: 4.40 forty, 28" vertical, 10.06' broad jump
Comparison: Anquan Boldin
Draft Projection: Early to late second round
2007 Statistics: 79-1260-15.9-8 Tds, 27-177-6.6-0 Tds

Positives: While his timed speed is superior, Thomas is devastating after the catch like Anquan Boldin. He has an excellent build and strong, soft hands. Thomas is a gifted special teamer, having blocked punts at MSU and averaged 29.1 yards per kick return as a junior. He was the Spartans' only legitimate passing game weapon in 2007 and often carried the offense. Thomas is an instinctive wideout and plays with swagger.

Negatives: He had only one big season in the Big Ten and is raw as route runner, particularly in the downfield department. There is limited game film on Thomas and several of his big plays came after underneath throws. He'll need to refine the "little things" in his game to help a pro team as a rookie.

Verdict: While he may have been a first-round lock for the 2009 draft had he stayed in East Lansing another year, it's hard to knock Thomas for leaving early after a marvelous junior campaign. His postseason workouts have been phenomenal. Thomas is raw with kinks to work out, but won't have to be the focal point of his next offense. If an NFL team can take full advantage of Thomas' after-the-catch ability, he could emerge as the best receiver in the class when we re-evaluate in 2011.

[LRtagger]

If we want a WR then Devin Thomas is our guy. He'd fit in nicely in our offense. He's got nice size, speed, and run after the catch ability.

I would be happy with him if we could get him in Rd 2. Much more potential than DeSean considering draft position.

[Scarface]

I would be happy with him if we could get him in Rd 2. Much more potential than DeSean considering draft position.

That's probably not happening now unfortunately. There's talk about him being the first WR taken. He's rising up the charts.

We could take Eddie Royal who's also rising. He'd provide return ability while he develops as a WR.



http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/ScarfaceBroncos2007/NFL%20Draft%2008/WR/vt_hokieRoyal002b.jpg

[lex]

Very people here honestly can even say they've seen Dexter play, myself included. So I think it's really hard to even make that assessment. Measurables are comparable, but I don't think we can say that about their game play; unless we have Appalachian State die hards who can adequately tell us this.

DeSean is a gamer. If the guy didn't have any fight in him, he wouldn't take it to the house on returns. He wouldn't be an explosive weapon. Guys like Jackson are special and few and far between. He worked this year on becoming a more complete receiver, and despite a drop in numbers yardage and TD wise - had more receptions. He improved his overall game, and that's important.

DeSean's receiving skills are much better than Dexter's. Both are excellent returners, but it's quite obvious that DeSean has more upside. Unless, we're talking about "Dexter at #104 is better than DeSean at #12" which in that case, I'd probably believe -- but I don't see how anyone would want Dexter of DeSean, unless it was based on slot position.

DeSean is heads and shoulders the better player; and despite his size - being ranked as one of the top in the draft is really saying something. If the guy didn't have any fight in him; that wouldn't be the case -- but it is.

I like DeSean, and I seriously hope he'll be welcomed here if he's the selection. He's just that electrifying. He's a special player. If he was 6'0 - 195 pounds, we wouldn't be having this argument. He's 5'10 - 170; so we are.

Size is overrated. Sure; durability becomes an issue - but he's been healthy in college. Heck, people doubted Jones-Drew coming out of UCLA; and well. . . he seems to be doing fairly well. I think DeSean on most Broncos forums is judged by his size, and not how he plays on the game. I think that's how a lot of people view him; and most players.

The kid has "it" and that's what matters.

You make a lot of solid points but truthfully, Jackson looked bad in the USC game a year ago when they banged him around and he disappeared. That only becomes more magnified in the NFL. Granted, with his speed, few teams are going to expect him to be the over the middle guy but still, youd like to know he wont disappear if someone knocks him around a little bit. Like you said, thats where the 12 vs 104 comes in and for the uncertainty I mentioned, taking a similar, albeit less polished, guy hurts less if he is a disappointment. When you take a guy at 12 you should be confident he'll contribute...which is one of the reasons Im in favor of taking a running back.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Wait a second...I thought we couldnt form an opinion on Dexter's skills because no one has seen him play enough....yet somehow his skills are inferior to DeSean's?

They are. That's why DeSean's a first-rounder and Dexter is a mid-round guy. That's common sense.


If Dexter played for a big name school, we wouldnt be having this conversation either. HE would easily be a top 5 WR in the draft. The fact that he is coming from a small school like App dramatically hurts his draft position. I remember before the combine he was looked at as a 6th or 7th rounder...now I hear he is more a 3rd or 4th and could even go in the 2nd depending on how the rest of the draft goes. He hasnt had his Pro-Day yet either...which could shoot him up the board even further.

A guy who has never caught more than 35-40 balls in a season wouldn't be a top five receiver in this draft. The only way he's a top prospect is if he played like one at a big school, and he didn't play like one at a small school. Erroneous assumption.


Personally, I think he would be a STEAL for us in the 4th or 5th, while I can't say I think DeSean would even be worth a 2nd round pick. Not to mention the ammount of money we would save on Dexter.

DeSean is worth #42; and yes - Dexter is great value in those rounds. Nobody argued that.


Dexter is faster, has comparible (if not better) size, all scouts are saying he ran great routes at the combine, he has proven himself (to those that have watched) at some huge games, he's not a little whiney bitch like DeSean, he had ZERO FUMBLES in his entire collegiate career, he had a fr/so running QB (Armanti Edwards) throwing to him his Jr/Sr years, etc.

Dexter is faster? That's why DeSean Jackson timed faster than he did. Right.

I could talk about California and their positional woes and their offense this year too to compensate for why DeSean might have had a "down" year - but it's not about excuses. Talk about prospects regardless of the hands they're dealt. Neither situations this year were that awesome for either receiver, so I guess that makes it a moot point.


I wouldnt be so quick to say DeSean is that much better than Dexter.

Oh, but I would. There's a reason DeSean is ranked as a top 20 selection in the draft and Dexter is a mid-round guy.

[LRtagger]

They are. That's why DeSean's a first-rounder and Dexter is a mid-round guy. That's common sense.
Not really. Dexter is a mid-round guy because he is coming from a spread, run-oriented, second-tier program.


A guy who has never caught more than 35-40 balls in a season wouldn't be a top five receiver in this draft. The only way he's a top prospect is if he played like one at a big school, and he didn't play like one at a small school. Erroneous assumption.
Like I said, ASU is a run-oriented program. Sure, he only had 30 receptions his sr year, but he averaged 23 yards per catch. That should tell you something about his speed and playmaking ability. DeSean averaged 12 yards per catch his senior year. In other words, Dexter had less than half the catches as DeSean, but nearly the same ammount of yards (and more scores might I add).

DeSean is worth #42; and yes - Dexter is great value in those rounds. Nobody argued that.
Only time will tell, but I don't see DeSean making a big impact on the league with his size and attitude.

Dexter is faster? That's why DeSean Jackson timed faster than he did. Right.
Sure, he was faster by 0.02s in official time. Dexter ran several sub 4.35 40's, but all were unofficial.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/24/dexter-jackson-runs-4-27-at-combine/

I could talk about California and their positional woes and their offense this year too to compensate for why DeSean might have had a "down" year - but it's not about excuses. Talk about prospects regardless of the hands they're dealt. Neither situations this year were that awesome for either receiver, so I guess that makes it a moot point.
Apples to Oranges. I didn't bring up App's offensive status as an excuse for Dexter. Obviously Dexter has proven himself at the combine and post season games. I brought up App's offense because they have an inexperienced, left handed, weak armed, young QB throwing to him who's forte is rushing for 300 yards per game (not passing for 300 yards). Dexter in a west coast style offense with a strong-armed pocket QB would have faired much better stat-wise.


Oh, but I would. There's a reason DeSean is ranked as a top 20 selection in the draft and Dexter is a mid-round guy.
You're right...the reason is Cal > App State

You sure have managed to become an expert on Dexter from a day ago when you said
Very people here honestly can even say they've seen Dexter play, myself included. So I think it's really hard to even make that assessment. Measurables are comparable, but I don't think we can say that about their game play; unless we have Appalachian State die hards who can adequately tell us this.

Now that you have an App State die-hard who has watched their team win 3 national titles in as many years, you suddenly have formed a very strong opinion about why Dexter is not very good. :confused: