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BroncoWave
01-02-2010, 01:59 PM
Does anyone else think that penalty should be eliminated or at least reduced to a 5 or 10 yarder? Other than the Roy Williams-T.O. incident (which was unfortunate) I can't remember any other examples of it causing a serious injury. I see at least one HCT a game is seems like and every single one I see doesn't result in any sort of injury but still costs that team 15 yards.

I'm beginning to think that this rule was an overreaction by the NFL and CFB to that one play that injured T.O. I see injuries caused by legal hits far more often than I see by the HCT.

I could be completely wrong about this, but I just don't think that should warrant a 15 yard penalty.

Northman
01-02-2010, 02:05 PM
For myself i would have to be bias so i support the rule. I got injured in the same exact manner when i was younger. Its just not a safe way to tackle an opponent. Im all for physical play but its just too risky to have someone pull you down with all their weight on the back of your legs and feet.

BroncoWave
01-02-2010, 02:18 PM
For myself i would have to be bias so i support the rule. I got injured in the same exact manner when i was younger. Its just not a safe way to tackle an opponent. Im all for physical play but its just too risky to have someone pull you down with all their weight on the back of your legs and feet.

But it's legal to pull them down by the shoulder pads or jersey in that manner and it has basically the same effect. I just think 15 yards is too harsh if it should even be a penalty at all.

Northman
01-02-2010, 02:19 PM
True, however pulling down by the shoulder pad at least has some give way.

Ravage!!!
01-02-2010, 02:48 PM
I think its a lame rule. EVERY hit has chances for injury. I never liked this one in particular. This one gets called if anyone grabs the back of the shoulder pads. I don't see how its more dangerous than any other hit.

getlynched47
01-02-2010, 02:54 PM
The horse-collar tackle rose to infamy during the 2004 NFL season, in which it was implicated for six major injuries, four of which were caused by Williams (including two in one game). The injuries that season included broken legs for Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens and quarterback Donovan McNabb, Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith, and Tennessee Titans wide out Tyrone Calico.

The horse-collar is particularly dangerous due to the awkward position of the player getting tackled, who will often fall backward in a twisting motion with one or both legs trapped under the weight of his body. This is exacerbated if the player's foot gets caught in the turf and by the additional weight of the defender. Potential injuries include sprains or tears to ligaments in the knees and ankles (including the ACL and MCL), and fractures of the tibia and fibula.

http://silentarchimedes.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/horsecollar.jpg

Mr. Horse-Collar himself (Roy Williams)

I'm glad it's still a personal foul and I'm glad that the players that do it are fined.

AlWilsonizKING
01-02-2010, 02:57 PM
I remember Gerald Wilhight(sp) breaking a leg due to a horse collar tackle back when I was young.


PEACE!!!

Ravage!!!
01-02-2010, 03:01 PM
wikipedia brought to you by.......

getlynched47
01-02-2010, 03:05 PM
wikipedia brought to you by.......

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H_rVDlsennM/SbTxMlypv1I/AAAAAAAALeI/cv0CSudxDRA/s400/shitopedia.jpg

Gotta love it :lol:

Benetto
01-02-2010, 04:51 PM
Penalties and injuries aside... HCT is a bitch way to tackle someone. If you are a Defensive player and don't want to hurt yourself by blowing someone up with a REAL take down, get them from behind the easy way. But remember don't break a nail.:rolleyes:



BTB...Its kinda funny you are always pointing out the fact people don't know what's really going on behind closed doors (McD), but you seem to have an opinion on Horse Collar Tackles, when you never even played a suited up Football game in your teenage life. So, "Child please"...Don't act like you know about tackling and getting tackled.

OrangeHoof
01-02-2010, 05:05 PM
I think the penalty is being overinforced. If you see the Roy Williams style of grab by the neck and then use all your weight to force the man down, particularly if you simultaneously swing your legs to cut the legs of the ballcarrier, that should be a penalty and I don't mind it being 15 yards.

However, this year I've seen refs call it simply because the guy was tackled from behind, even when the defender clearly grabbed the pads, not the neck. I even saw one penalty for a horse-collar when the runner had long dreads that made it IMPOSSIBLE to give him a horse collar but they still called the penalty.

IMO, they need to keep the penalty for blatant horse collars but they need to let it go when the tackler's hands are clearly on the pads and they are not trying to tackle by the back of the neck.

LordTrychon
01-02-2010, 05:09 PM
I think it's been called and misscalled too much... but 15 yards is in line with other personal fouls... so I don't see it being reduced. There's no such thing as even a 5 yd facemask anymore.

BroncoWave
01-02-2010, 05:44 PM
BTB...Its kinda funny you are always pointing out the fact people don't know what's really going on behind closed doors (McD), but you seem to have an opinion on Horse Collar Tackles, when you never even played a suited up Football game in your teenage life. So, "Child please"...Don't act like you know about tackling and getting tackled.

I played football for 3 years in high school, dumbass. Nice try though. :lol:

I've played in and seen enough football to know that any kind of his can cause injury. I don't think the HCT is personal foul-worthy myself.

Pro football made it 80 something years just fine without it being a penalty. But one high profile player gets hurt and suddenly it's a personal foul, much like the rule changes that stemmed from Brady getting hurt.

Bronco Bible
01-03-2010, 06:35 PM
I remember Gerald Wilhight(sp) breaking a leg due to a horse collar tackle back when I was young.


PEACE!!!

At Minnesota by Joey Browner

spikerman
01-08-2010, 09:27 PM
Does anyone else think that penalty should be eliminated or at least reduced to a 5 or 10 yarder? Other than the Roy Williams-T.O. incident (which was unfortunate) I can't remember any other examples of it causing a serious injury. I see at least one HCT a game is seems like and every single one I see doesn't result in any sort of injury but still costs that team 15 yards.

I'm beginning to think that this rule was an overreaction by the NFL and CFB to that one play that injured T.O. I see injuries caused by legal hits far more often than I see by the HCT.

I could be completely wrong about this, but I just don't think that should warrant a 15 yard penalty. At the high school/college level the horse collar is defined very specifically, but it's still a tough call. I assume the NFL rule is similar. By rule, the player has to be taken down immediately which is the key word. If a tackler grabs a player and the player takes a couple of steps and then goes down it should not be called a HC. It's a tricky call and there are some instances where it isn't called at all. For instance, a quarterback in the pocket is not protected by the horse collar rule.

Personally, I think it should be a 15 yard penalty. There are two reasons for rules in football. The first is to prevent one team from having an unfair advantage and the second, and most important, is safety. Too many players are injured using the horse collar, it's the same reason that a facemask penalty is so severe.

Basically, it's a judgement call and it's a difficult one.

Broncolingus
01-09-2010, 12:42 AM
Does anyone else think that penalty should be eliminated


At Minnesota by Joey Browner


I think its a lame rule. EVERY hit has chances for injury.


1) I completely agree...

2) Good memory...I remembered it was the Vikes, but not who tackled him. Going in for a TD I believe...

3) Excellent point, sir! Look at McCoy last night...

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