Mock Draft Consolidation Poll (pre-combine)

[eessydo]

Good news all, I took the liberty to review all of the mock drafts out there and have consolidated the choices. So let's have a poll and select who we believe WILL be the Broncos first selection in the draft. Please note: this is not a wish list this is who you believe the BRONCOS will select.

I have taken the consensus top 6 decisions along with an outlier option. Outliers were determined by there relative infrequency in the mock drafts. The outliers were left off as specific choices in teh Poll, but you do have the option of selecting "outlier" then listing them in the forum.

Outliers are listed below. Please make sure if you choose an outlier that you follow up with your selection in the thread.

Malcom Kelly (WR)
Desean Jackson (WR)
Sam Baker (OT)
Frank Okam (DT)
Pat Sims (DT)
Derrick Harvey (DE)
Phillip Merling (DE)
Reggie Smith (S)
Darren McFadden (RB)
Rashard Mendenhall (RB)

Information was obtained from mock drafts updated in February posted on Walterfootball.com (http://www.walterfootball.com/draftdata.php).

[BOSSHOGG30]

Where is Jonathan Stewart and Glenn Dorsey on that list?

[eessydo]

This forum was moved from the 2008 draft / free agency forum. Sorry for the confusion.....but I didn't move it.

[Fan in Exile]

Given those choices I say take Keith Rivers.

I'm not one of those who are obsessed with size.

I think we need to bring in a RT and let Harris and Pears fight it out for left. There's just no sense in having three LT on the team and then struggle at RT. Drafting Clady as a right tackle is just a waste. That and I'm not sure anymore that he will be around at 12.

Balmer would be a reach at that point.

Conner is the best MLB but he's been rated late first round so it would make more sense to me, to leave DJ at middle and get an OLB.

Finally I don't want to trade up for Ellis because I think we need more picks not less.

[eessydo]

Where is Jonathan Stewart and Glenn Dorsey on that list?

Read my thread and you will see where the information is coming from. I clearly articulated where my data for this specific poll was gleaned.

As for those two Glenn Dorsey will be long gone....so forget it and historically the Broncos under shanahan (http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=DEN&lg=nfl) have never picked up a running back in the first round. Besides, running back is the most interchangable position on the field. It is plug and play. You can get value down the board, even great value on the second day....which is shanahan's preference as indicated by the history listed above.

I personally think it would take a VERY special player for Shanahan to pull the trigger on an RB in the first. He is far too good at evaluating RB value, especially in terms of how they fit into his particular running system.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Read my thread and you will see where the information is coming from. I clearly articulated where my data for this specific poll was gleaned.

As for those two Glenn Dorsey will be long gone....so forget it and historically the Broncos under shanahan (http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=DEN&lg=nfl) have never picked up a running back in the first round. Besides, running back is the most interchangable position on the field. It is plug and play. You can get value down the board, even great value on the second day....which is shanahan's preference as indicated by the history listed above.

I personally think it would take a VERY special player for Shanahan to pull the trigger on an RB in the first. He is far too good at evaluating RB value, especially in terms of how they fit into his particular running system.

historically the Broncos don't lose much under Shanahan either... i'm hopeful this is the year Denver gets a stud back to grow with Cutler and Marshall.

[turftoad]

Read my thread and you will see where the information is coming from. I clearly articulated where my data for this specific poll was gleaned.

As for those two Glenn Dorsey will be long gone....so forget it and historically the Broncos under shanahan (http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=DEN&lg=nfl) have never picked up a running back in the first round. Besides, running back is the most interchangable position on the field. It is plug and play. You can get value down the board, even great value on the second day....which is shanahan's preference as indicated by the history listed above.

I personally think it would take a VERY special player for Shanahan to pull the trigger on an RB in the first. He is far too good at evaluating RB value, especially in terms of how they fit into his particular running system.


I totally agree. I went back into draft history to see what backs the Broncos passed up in the first round since 2000.
The thing I found kind of interesting is there are studs and also duds. You just never know what you're going to get when it comes to the draft.

S. Alexander
M. Bennett
L. Johnson
W. McGahee
Kev. Jones
S. Jackson
J. Addai
D. Williams
L. Maroney

Now keep in mind that these RB were drafted in the first round after Denver had already picked.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I totally agree. I went back into draft history to see what backs the Broncos passed up in the first round since 2000.
The thing is found kind of interesting is there are studs and also duds. You just never know what you're going to get when it comes to the draft.

S. Alexander
M. Bennett
L. Johnson
W. McGahee
Kev. Jones
S. Jackson
J. Addai
D. Williams
L. Maroney

Now keep in mind that these RB were drafted in the first round after Denver had already picked.

And who did we get when we passed up most of these gems?

[turftoad]

And who did we get when we passed up most of these gems?

That not the point Boss. Just posting the backs we passed up. There are some good ones there.
I remember the year Jackson and K. Jones were drafted. No one, no one could believe that they both fell as far as they did. Just found it all interesting.

[BOSSHOGG30]

That not the point Boss. Just posting the backs we passed up. There are some good ones there.
I remember the year Jackson and K. Jones were drafted. No one, no one could believe that they both fell as far as they did. Just found it all interesting.

I know Turf... I'm just tired of settling for average... we need a few more play makers. We were spoiled with TD, Elway, Sharpe, Atwater, Romo, Mobley, Pryce and so on.... I want to have that type of talent again. To do that I think we have to stop settling for average talent in later rounds and get the guys that have star potential.

[turftoad]

I know Turf... I'm just tired of settling for average... we need a few more play makers. We were spoiled with TD, Elway, Sharpe, Atwater, Romo, Mobley, Pryce and so on.... I want to have that type of talent again. To do that I think we have to stop settling for average talent in later rounds and get the guys that have star potential.

We need playmakers with star potential on our defense is what we need.

[BOSSHOGG30]

We need playmakers with star potential on our defense is what we need.

Yes, so instead of settling at 12 for a guy like Kenny Philips, or Balmer, you trade down and get a guy for what his value is really worth..... We jump on Moss.... that was a reach.. bad selection... we did good by jumping on Marcus Thomas... good pick. We need to have more picks like Marcus Thomas and less picks like Ashley Lelie and Jarvis Moss.

[turftoad]

Yes, so instead of settling at 12 for a guy like Kenny Philips, or Balmer, you trade down and get a guy for what his value is really worth..... We jump on Moss.... that was a reach.. bad selection... we did good by jumping on Marcus Thomas... good pick. We need to have more picks like Marcus Thomas and less picks like Ashley Lelie and Jarvis Moss.

Agreed............ however, the jury is still out on Moss. But I do agree.

[eessydo]

I totally agree. I went back into draft history to see what backs the Broncos passed up in the first round since 2000.
The thing I found kind of interesting is there are studs and also duds. You just never know what you're going to get when it comes to the draft.

S. Alexander
M. Bennett
L. Johnson
W. McGahee
Kev. Jones
S. Jackson
J. Addai
D. Williams
L. Maroney

Now keep in mind that these RB were drafted in the first round after Denver had already picked.

The question remains, who did we have as OUR running back at the time we passed up these gems AND what were our needs at the time.

We have done pretty well with our running game even without the Perennial star. You can't just point out the names, where we were and our needs of that time should also be considered.

[slim]

Yes, so instead of settling at 12 for a guy like Kenny Philips, or Balmer, you trade down and get a guy for what his value is really worth..... We jump on Moss.... that was a reach.. bad selection... we did good by jumping on Marcus Thomas... good pick. We need to have more picks like Marcus Thomas and less picks like Ashley Lelie and Jarvis Moss.

It's a little early to compare Moss to Ashley. :coffee:

[turftoad]

The question remains, who did we have as OUR running back at the time we passed up these gems AND what were our needs at the time.

We have done pretty well with our running game even without the Perennial star. You can't just point out the names, where we were and our needs of that time should also be considered.

All I know is if we re sign Henry, we have greater needs than RB.

[BOSSHOGG30]

All I know is if we re sign Henry, we have greater needs than RB.

I agree, we will need to make sure that we have very good public relation expert as well as a very good back up runningback... good thing we have Selvin Young

[atwater27]

I have never been so sure of a pick, trades excepted, of a first round draft in my life.
Denver will Pick Ryan Clady if he is there. The only way we pass on him is in the highly unlikely scenario that one of the Longs or Ellis or Dorsey "slip" down to us.
Clady is a no brainer. We have made a huge investment in a young quarterback. We will protect that investment.

[BOSSHOGG30]

And god be with us please... because Clady won't start from day one... Clady is not better, right now, than Harris or even Pears and we would be reaching for a guy who would normally be a 2nd round pick if it wasn't for the lack of star talent at tackle in this draft.

[atwater27]

You are dead wrong. Fiercely underestimating him.

[atwater27]

Our O-line needs a good first round talent once in awhile, to make up for the 6th round projects Shanahan constantly selects.

[BOSSHOGG30]

You are dead wrong. Fiercely underestimating him.

He is another raw player who will need some grooming. No way he is ready to start as a rookie.

[eessydo]

I totally agree. I went back into draft history to see what backs the Broncos passed up in the first round since 2000.
The thing I found kind of interesting is there are studs and also duds. You just never know what you're going to get when it comes to the draft.

S. Alexander
M. Bennett
L. Johnson
W. McGahee
Kev. Jones
S. Jackson
J. Addai
D. Williams
L. Maroney

Now keep in mind that these RB were drafted in the first round after Denver had already picked.

Here is a little research on who our back was at the time of these selections:

S. Alexander (Drafted 2000): T. Davis knee injury year and M. Anderson goes for 1487 yards as replacement.

Other first rounders include T. Jones (decent), R Dayne (bust) and J. Lewis (Solid)

M. Bennett (Drafted 2001): Still have T. Davis and M Anderson along with an up and coming Olandis Gary.

Other first rounders include L. Tomlinson (Spectacular)

2002 Broncos Draft Clinton Portis in round two and he rushes for 1508 yards as a rookie

First rounders include W green (bust), TJ Ducket (bust)

L. Johnson (Drafted 2003) Clinton Portis rushes for 1591
W. McGahee (Drafted 2003)

No other first rounders

Kev. Jones (Drafted 2004)
S. Jackson (Drafted 2004)
C. Perry (Drafted 2004) Deal portis for bailey. Droughns for 1240...Tatum Bell drafted as potential replacement

No other first rounders

2005 No one behind us--> first rounders include C. Williams (injury prone) Cedric Benson (pseudo bust we'll give him a jury still out verdict) Ronnie Brown..another psuedo bust.

J. Addai (Drafted 2006)
D. Williams (Drafted 2006)
L. Maroney (Drafted 2006) Tatum bell 1025 yards, Mike Bell 677.

Get Jay Cutler that year in first, enough said.

Others include R. Bush (not a primary back, just a matchup issue in an offense with a primary back)

2007 Nobody behind us-- Adrian Peterson goes at 7 Marshawn Lynch @ 12. No ammo to move up so Denver drafts Selvin young and looks to Travis Henry in FA. Shoring up pass rush issues in the first.

We can talk about who missed out on all we want....but if you look at the all of the first rounders in some of these drafts since 2000 we can honestly say that Shanahan looks pretty good when evaluating talent at running back in his draft POSITION against his need.

[eessydo]

And god be with us please... because Clady won't start from day one... Clady is not better, right now, than Harris or even Pears and we would be reaching for a guy who would normally be a 2nd round pick if it wasn't for the lack of star talent at tackle in this draft.

I am not going to say you are wrong, but I think OT has some pretty good talent this year. The guy is not a second rounder in previous drafts since 2007, that much is certain.

I think you are reaching here, both with your Ryan Clady comment along with your Jonathan Stewart pick. If the broncos traded down I would be OK with picking up Stewart, but there are better picks at 12.

[turftoad]

Here is a little research on who our back was at the time of these selections:

S. Alexander (Drafted 2000): T. Davis knee injury year and M. Anderson goes for 1487 yards as replacement.

Other first rounders include T. Jones (decent), R Dayne (bust) and J. Lewis (Solid)

M. Bennett (Drafted 2001): Still have T. Davis and M Anderson along with an up and coming Olandis Gary.

Other first rounders include L. Tomlinson (Spectacular)

2002 Broncos Draft Clinton Portis in round two and he rushes for 1508 yards as a rookie

First rounders include W green (bust), TJ Ducket (bust)

L. Johnson (Drafted 2003) Clinton Portis rushes for 1591
W. McGahee (Drafted 2003)

No other first rounders

Kev. Jones (Drafted 2004)
S. Jackson (Drafted 2004)
C. Perry (Drafted 2004) Deal portis for bailey. Droughns for 1240...Tatum Bell drafted as potential replacement

No other first rounders

2005 No one behind us--> first rounders include C. Williams (injury prone) Cedric Benson (pseudo bust we'll give him a jury still out verdict) Ronnie Brown..another psuedo bust.

J. Addai (Drafted 2006)
D. Williams (Drafted 2006)
L. Maroney (Drafted 2006) Tatum bell 1025 yards, Mike Bell 677.

Get Jay Cutler that year in first, enough said.

Others include R. Bush (not a primary back, just a matchup issue in an offense with a primary back)

2007 Nobody behind us-- Adrian Peterson goes at 7 Marshawn Lynch @ 12. No ammo to move up so Denver drafts Selvin young and looks to Travis Henry in FA. Shoring up pass rush issues in the first.

We can talk about who missed out on all we want....but if you look at the all of the first rounders in some of these drafts since 2000 we can honestly say that Shanahan looks pretty good when evaluating talent at running back in his draft POSITION against his need.

Lets see. You quoted me on this. Where did I say anything about who we MISSED? I wasn't talking about that. I was making the same point you are. We can draft backs in the later rounds and have them be 1000yrd rushers.
I... do no want a back in the first. This is a very deep draft RB wise. I'm sure we,ll draft one Henry or no Henry, we always do. I just thought I'd point it out to the members that want a RB in the first and found it interesting. I want "D".

BTW, we did not draft Selvin Young.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I am not going to say you are wrong, but I think OT has some pretty good talent this year. The guy is not a second rounder in previous drafts since 2007, that much is certain.

I think you are reaching here, both with your Ryan Clady comment along with your Jonathan Stewart pick. If the broncos traded down I would be OK with picking up Stewart, but there are better picks at 12.

Ryan Clady negatives: from Scout's Inc.

Plays too high, hasn?t shown great lower body strength and is going to have problems driving defenders off the ball in short-yardage situations. Lacks ideal explosiveness, hasn't learned how to roll hips into blocks and fails to knock many defenders back at the point of attack. Can be overaggressive, lunges a little too much and is vulnerable to push-pull moves. While shows adequate awareness in pass protection and helps out when nothing comes to him, over commits at times and has some problems picking up delayed blitzes. Doesn't have great lateral mobility, has some problems beating wide edge rushers to the point of attack and is vulnerable to effective double moves. Big enough to hold ground but bends at the waist rather than the knees and is going to have some problems holding ground working against NFL caliber bull rushers. Can get jumpy when defenders start jumping around before the snap and he's vulnerable to false starts.

Does this sound like a top 12 pick? Does this sound like the answer to Denver's problems

[eessydo]

Lets see. You quoted me on this. Where did I say anything about who we MISSED? I wasn't talking about that. I was making the same point you are. We can draft backs in the later rounds and have them be 1000yrd rushers.
I... do no want a back in the first. This is a very deep draft RB wise. I'm sure we,ll draft one Henry or no Henry, we always do. I just thought I'd point it out to the members that want a RB in the first and found it interesting. I want "D".

BTW, we did not draft Selvin Young.

Understood, and I should have been more clear. I did the research based on your comment and responded in the final portion of my comments based on others declaration that we need a first round caliber running back. I am for DT first, OT second, LB third in the first based on best value. Ellis / Clady / Rivers or a trade back (20+ pick) for conner. Would consider drafting an RB ONLY if McFadden fell or we traded back for Stewart into a 15 to 20 slot because the other three were off the board.

Drafts are so fluid that you have to have several scenarios in place based on how the picks in front of you play out.

Thank you for the correction on my mistake regarding young.

[Lonestar]

I totally agree. I went back into draft history to see what backs the Broncos passed up in the first round since 2000.
The thing I found kind of interesting is there are studs and also duds. You just never know what you're going to get when it comes to the draft.

S. Alexander delta oneal
M. Bennett wee willie middlebroken
L. Johnson george foster
W. McGahee george foster
Kev. Jones dj williams
S. Jackson dj williams
J. Addai
D. Williams
L. Maroney

Now keep in mind that these RB were drafted in the first round after Denver had already picked.

2002 ashley lilly, cliton poorti$$ or Brian Westbrook



Just a few notables..

Did we really need them maybe not but with the exception of DJ who probably was not needed either none of the choices we made were worth a crap..

[eessydo]

Ryan Clady negatives: from Scout's Inc.

Plays too high, hasn?t shown great lower body strength and is going to have problems driving defenders off the ball in short-yardage situations. Lacks ideal explosiveness, hasn't learned how to roll hips into blocks and fails to knock many defenders back at the point of attack. Can be overaggressive, lunges a little too much and is vulnerable to push-pull moves. While shows adequate awareness in pass protection and helps out when nothing comes to him, over commits at times and has some problems picking up delayed blitzes. Doesn't have great lateral mobility, has some problems beating wide edge rushers to the point of attack and is vulnerable to effective double moves. Big enough to hold ground but bends at the waist rather than the knees and is going to have some problems holding ground working against NFL caliber bull rushers. Can get jumpy when defenders start jumping around before the snap and he's vulnerable to false starts.

Does this sound like a top 12 pick? Does this sound like the answer to Denver's problems

There are negatives on every player. You read it all day long about ALL of the players. They like to use phrases like "most prepared to play in NFL", "raw talent with plenty of upside" etc. They are scrutinized, then scrutinized again.

Yes he is in the top 12. He is clearly the second best tackle in the draft. Last I checked, franchise tackles last a whole lot longer in the NFL than franchise running backs. They are the anchor of your line and behind the QB are the second most important position on the offense.

They protect your meal ticket, and we have a pretty good one in Cutler.

Let me loan you my 52" 1080p flatscreen. That little 12" black and white set you have is limiting your ability to see the BIG PICTURE.

[BOSSHOGG30]

There are negatives on every player. You read it all day long about ALL of the players. They like to use phrases like "most prepared to play in NFL", "raw talent with plenty of upside" etc. They are scrutinized, then scrutinized again.

Yes he is in the top 12. He is clearly the second best tackle in the draft. Last I checked, franchise tackles last a whole lot longer in the NFL than franchise running backs. They are the anchor of your line and behind the QB are the second most important position on the offense.

They protect your meal ticket, and we have a pretty good one in Cutler.

Let me loan you my 52" 1080p flatscreen. That little 12" black and white set you have is limiting your ability to see the BIG PICTURE.

News flash.... a top 12 athlete shouldn't have this many negatives... especially when you play for Boise St.... it isn't like he blocks great talent week in week out.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Compare to Jake Long, a guy who plays at Michigan and has to face far superior competition:

Weaknesses: Lacks elite mobility for an elite OT prospect. Has enough quickness and balance to perform at a high level in the NFL, but he is not as nimble as former top OT prospects such as Orlando Pace (Rams), Jonathan Ogden (Ravens) and D'Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets). Lacks ideal bulk for his frame. Depending on the scheme, he may need to add some weight in the NFL. Durability is somewhat of a concern after he missed the first seven games of the 2005 season with an ankle/foot injury.

Notice the part about OT prospects such as Pace, Ogden, Ferguson... this isn't that type of draft for the OT.... This is a weak OT draft for stud OT. Long wouldn't even be a top 10 prospect if it wasn't so weak. Then you look at Clady and there is a huge drop from Long to Clady... and you think he is worth a top 12 overall pick?

[eessydo]

News flash.... a top 12 athlete shouldn't have this many negatives... especially when you play for Boise St.... it isn't like he blocks great talent week in week out.

Believe what you want, but who am I to argue with scouting professionals who all have this guy pegged for a top 15 pick. Either the draft is seriously defunct of talent at every position or these guys know what they are talking about. As a professional resource, it is their duty to list both the PROS and the CONS of every player you evaluate. You just decided to post CON information from one source. Doesn't necessarily make a great argument.

So I think I will take door #2 and believe the professionals. They seem to be getting paid for this stuff and I believe have a few more years experience than you.

*This does not mean that I believe internet posted mock drafts have professionals working for them. I believe most of this information is compiled from professional sources in the industry then used to make opinionated comments on the web.

[Lonestar]

Compare to Jake Long, a guy who plays at Michigan and has to face far superior competition:

Weaknesses: Lacks elite mobility for an elite OT prospect. Has enough quickness and balance to perform at a high level in the NFL, but he is not as nimble as former top OT prospects such as Orlando Pace (Rams), Jonathan Ogden (Ravens) and D'Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets). Lacks ideal bulk for his frame. Depending on the scheme, he may need to add some weight in the NFL. Durability is somewhat of a concern after he missed the first seven games of the 2005 season with an ankle/foot injury.

Notice the part about OT prospects such as Pace, Ogden, Ferguson... this isn't that type of draft for the OT.... This is a weak OT draft for stud OT. Long wouldn't even be a top 10 prospect if it wasn't so weak. Then you look at Clady and there is a huge drop from Long to Clady... and you think he is worth a top 12 overall pick?

The issues are we are never (lets hope) be in the position to take THE top OT in the drafts so any that we take at 12 to 25 are going to have negatives..

I agree that an OT should be stable for a decade or more and that few RBs last that long the last stat I saw on RB was a life expectancy of about 3.8 NFL years..

[eessydo]

Compare to Jake Long, a guy who plays at Michigan and has to face far superior competition:

Weaknesses: Lacks elite mobility for an elite OT prospect. Has enough quickness and balance to perform at a high level in the NFL, but he is not as nimble as former top OT prospects such as Orlando Pace (Rams), Jonathan Ogden (Ravens) and D'Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets). Lacks ideal bulk for his frame. Depending on the scheme, he may need to add some weight in the NFL. Durability is somewhat of a concern after he missed the first seven games of the 2005 season with an ankle/foot injury.

Notice the part about OT prospects such as Pace, Ogden, Ferguson... this isn't that type of draft for the OT.... This is a weak OT draft for stud OT. Long wouldn't even be a top 10 prospect if it wasn't so weak. Then you look at Clady and there is a huge drop from Long to Clady... and you think he is worth a top 12 overall pick?

All former first tackle selections in the draft, hence the comparison. Besides Ferguson has yet to impress and they said the same things about Joe Thomas last year who clearly outperformed The Brick ishaw. Say what you want, but each draft is relative from year to year, and these two clearly stand out as the top two prospects and their position AND relative to other positions in teh draft seemed to have solidified their value as TOP 15 picks. More than what can be said for your beloved Jonathan Stewart.

[eessydo]

BOSSHOG

Feel free to post a poll asking "With the Broncos at the 12th pick what position will have better value for them in terms of talent?"

RB
OT

Can add a few other positions in there to balance it out if you want.

It is a valid question, but I know what my answer would be.......


Or you can go with, what is the more important position in an offense

RB
OT

Or maybe just flat out ask Jonathan Stewart or Ryan Clady....who do you select in the 12th position in the draft.

[BOSSHOGG30]

BOSSHOG

Feel free to post a poll asking "With the Broncos at the 12th pick what position will have better value for them in terms of talent?"

RB
OT

Can add a few other positions in there to balance it out if you want.

It is a valid question, but I know what my answer would be.......


Or you can go with, what is the more important position in an offense

RB
OT

Or maybe just flat out ask Jonathan Stewart or Ryan Clady....who do you select in the 12th position in the draft.


I understand we have needs in other areas of the team... and OT is one of the major ones... But you can't convince me that Ryan Clady is worth a top 12 pick, one of the highest picks Denver has held in quite some time. I understand he is rated the 2nd best tackle prospect in the entire draft. That doesn't impress me because I understand the talent this draft has at the tackle position. I also feel that Clady is over-rated because he has too many negatives for a guy playing in the WAC conference. Clady better be freaking dominating in that conference... and he didn't! He was good, some will say very good... that is fine, but if you are going to be a top 12 pick in the NFL and you play in the WAC conference, you better be jumping off the walls awesome. I actually think we would be better off with Chris Williams, Sam Baker, and some of the other tackles ranked right behind him. Clady is just like George Foster... Everyone likes him because of his size, frame, and potential. He is a raw player that needs a lot of work. He could be great, but he could also be a big time bust. As of right now we have that guy in Ryan Harris. Why do we need another project?

[BOSSHOGG30]

All former first tackle selections in the draft, hence the comparison. Besides Ferguson has yet to impress and they said the same things about Joe Thomas last year who clearly outperformed The Brick ishaw. Say what you want, but each draft is relative from year to year, and these two clearly stand out as the top two prospects and their position AND relative to other positions in teh draft seemed to have solidified their value as TOP 15 picks. More than what can be said for your beloved Jonathan Stewart.

As for Joe Thomas... Scout Inc. pre draft bio:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11207

Weaknesses: Despite a smooth recovery, there's still concern regarding long-term durability as a result of 2006 knee surgery. He lacks ideal lower-body bulk and strength. Plays with a narrow base at times and is susceptible to a powerful bull rush. He's not an overpowering run blocker and he can be a bit of a "finesse" blocker at times. Also, his arms are not as long as his massive frame would indicate.


Negatives list looks pretty short to me.. and the guy played in the Big 10 againts elite competition.

[atwater27]

Who do want us to draft in the 1st BossHogg?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Clady was charged with six penalties (five false starts, one holding), including four vs. Washington, and allowed 3.5 sacks for losses of 23 yards

Found this interesting as well.... I'm starting to see why many of you think he is a top 12 talent.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Who do want us to draft in the 1st BossHogg?

At what pick? It really matters what pick we are at. I'm really hopeful we can trade back... because besides runningback which isn't really a position of need I don't see much that will slide our way at the 12 spot worth taking. It's a pretty bad spot to be in this years draft.

[atwater27]

Guess I could have looked at your sig.
Boss, backs are a dime a dozen in this league, and several teams have proven over and over again that a franchise back is not needed to win. We have a group of backs that are good. We have major question marks at a ton of positions, most notably on the offensive and defensive lines. Drafting a runner at #12 would be ludicrous. I would even be ok with trading back to select Clady or perhaps a DT/DE, but drafting a Runner in the 1st when we have 3 or 4 perfectly capable ones on the roster already would be silly. Silly especially because of the depth at running back in this draft, and because of the major needs of the teams in the 1st round will leave plenty of good backs available later.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Guess I could have looked at your sig.
Boss, backs are a dime a dozen in this league, and several teams have proven over and over again that a franchise back is not needed to win. We have a group of backs that are good. We have major question marks at a ton of positions, most notably on the offensive and defensive lines. Drafting a runner at #12 would be ludicrous. I would even be ok with trading back to select Clady or perhaps a DT/DE, but drafting a Runner in the 1st when we have 3 or 4 perfectly capable ones on the roster already would be silly. Silly especially because of the depth at running back in this draft, and because of the major needs of the teams in the 1st round will leave plenty of good backs available later.

Read post above... Ideally I would trade back... I understand we have other needs... but I refuse to accept our needs as an excuse to settle for a draft pick based on that need. We are talking about 1 pick and 1 very important pick... 12th overall!

[atwater27]

I wonder if we could trade completely out of the 1st for a combination of players and picks.

[nj10]

Jonathan Stewart with the first round pick...

[BOSSHOGG30]

Jonathan Stewart with the first round pick...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa109/sickpicsnfl/college%20ball/ORRB102092918_1024x768.jpg

He does need to practice his salute if he is going to be in Denver though.

[broncohead]

Our offensive line will be fine. We have some young guys that are still learning. Bringing in a rookie won't help the OL IMO. A RB in the first won't be needed inless Henry is off the roster. So we look at Safety, LB, and DT in the first. Defense was our biggest need if people have forgotten.

[eessydo]

As for Joe Thomas... Scout Inc. pre draft bio:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11207

Weaknesses: Despite a smooth recovery, there's still concern regarding long-term durability as a result of 2006 knee surgery. He lacks ideal lower-body bulk and strength. Plays with a narrow base at times and is susceptible to a powerful bull rush. He's not an overpowering run blocker and he can be a bit of a "finesse" blocker at times. Also, his arms are not as long as his massive frame would indicate.


Negatives list looks pretty short to me.. and the guy played in the Big 10 againts elite competition.

The level of competition has nothing to do with it. If that was the case the NFL's first 32 picks would come out of the SEC every year. So quit trying to make that case because no one is listening.

Second, what do you mean a short list?

In case you haven't noticed knee surgery IS a MAJOR CON, but they still pulled the trigger on him. The same lower body strength issues that exist with Clady, existed with Joe Thomas. The same questions around drive blocking existed with Joe Thomas that exist with Ryan Clady. I don't see how the NEGATIVES are any different from year to year.

It seems to me you read what you want to read. The rest of us are looking at what you just quoted and wondering how that is any different from what was written about Jake Long?

You are starting to make me laugh...

[BOSSHOGG30]

The level of competition has nothing to do with it. If that was the case the NFL's first 32 picks would come out of the SEC every year. So quit trying to make that case because no one is listening.

Second, what do you mean a short list?

In case you haven't noticed knee surgery IS a MAJOR CON, but they still pulled the trigger on him. The same lower body strength issues that exist with Clady, existed with Joe Thomas. The same questions around drive blocking existed with Joe Thomas that exist with Ryan Clady. I don't see how the NEGATIVES are any different from year to year.

It seems to me you read what you want to read. The rest of us are looking at what you just quoted and wondering how that is any different from what was written about Jake Long?

You are starting to make me laugh...

Yes sir... I'm sorry for having an opinion and replying back to your postings.. what was I thinking... level of competition has nothing to do with deciding on a draft pick... I will keep that in mind... I guess struggling in the WAC conference isn't anything to worry about after all.

Thanks for helping me understand. Lets hope Denver can draft Clady and he can play in the NFL like he did in that Washington game last season.

[dogfish]

oops, i mis-read the question and picked the guy i would prefer out of those choices. . . . in answer to the question of who i think we will actually take, i'll go with desean jackson. . . .

[atwater27]

Thanks for helping me understand. Lets hope Denver can draft Clady and he can play in the NFL like he did in that Washington game last season.

Or we can draft Stewart and have him perform like he did vs UCLA.

Come on, you can pick on every player for having an off game.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Or we can draft Stewart and have him perform like he did vs UCLA.

Come on, you can pick on every player for having an off game.

lol... do you really think that was Clady's only off game. I'm not picking on him for his off game.

I really doubt that many people on this board has seen him play. They have to base their opinion on what the scouts and media say about him. Most "experts" list Clady as the #2 tackle in the draft. Everyone sees that and thinks... wow he must be good. Then they look at his size and day... well I like his size too. Now this is all they really have to go by when looking at offensive line prospects. You can look at runningbacks, QB's and all that all day. It is easy to find this stuff on Youtube and all over the place. You can't quite do that with Offensive linemen. Anyone who has watched Boise State can't honestly say that Ryan Clady is a top 12 prospect! He is a good player with potential. He is very raw and needs work. He does have good size. But if you watch him play you will see exactly why he is considered a raw prospect. Denver already selected a LT that fits this very discription... Ryan Harris. So why on earth would Denver draft another raw LT prospect the very next season?

[eessydo]

Or we can draft Stewart and have him perform like he did vs UCLA.

Come on, you can pick on every player for having an off game.

Exactly Atwater....

[eessydo]

Yes sir... I'm sorry for having an opinion and replying back to your postings.. what was I thinking... level of competition has nothing to do with deciding on a draft pick... I will keep that in mind... I guess struggling in the WAC conference isn't anything to worry about after all.

Thanks for helping me understand. Lets hope Denver can draft Clady and he can play in the NFL like he did in that Washington game last season.

Look at the HoF.....How many tackles are from big name schools from major conferences in their era?

There are just as many OL HoF'ers from schools like William & Mary, Jackson State, Morgan State and Maryland State as those big name schools. Where your conference ranks and who you play against has no bearing on your NFL career. That perception has been debunked over and over again, look at Jerry Rice (MVSU).

It is about the quality, skill or potential of a player and there value in relation to their position. If the guy wasn't top 15 material I don't think he would consistently be placed ahead of the person you believe is a better pick in pretty much every publication and resource available.

Consensus (please read carefully that says consensus NOT majority) opinion says you are completely wrong in your evaluation of Clady against Stewart in terms of overall value and draft position.

So you can say whatever you want, read what you want to read when it comes to these evals. It just appears you are standing on an island, ALONE, making an argument no one else in the professional world of player evaluation seems willing to make.

Good luck to you.

[atwater27]

lol... do you really think that was Clady's only off game. I'm not picking on him for his off game.

I really doubt that many people on this board has seen him play. They have to base their opinion on what the scouts and media say about him. Most "experts" list Clady as the #2 tackle in the draft. Everyone sees that and thinks... wow he must be good. Then they look at his size and day... well I like his size too. Now this is all they really have to go by when looking at offensive line prospects. You can look at runningbacks, QB's and all that all day. It is easy to find this stuff on Youtube and all over the place. You can't quite do that with Offensive linemen. Anyone who has watched Boise State can't honestly say that Ryan Clady is a top 12 prospect! He is a good player with potential. He is very raw and needs work. He does have good size. But if you watch him play you will see exactly why he is considered a raw prospect. Denver already selected a LT that fits this very discription... Ryan Harris. So why on earth would Denver draft another raw LT prospect the very next season?
Yeah, and I am sure you attended all his games and were in the booth with a video camera recording his every move.
It's one thing to provide insight or opinion on players. it's another to think you are some scout god who has infinite knowledge on everything draft related.
The freaking draft is a crap shoot, full of can't miss prospects playing for the Toronto Argonaughts 2 years later and undrafted players who lead their teams to super bowl victories.
Jeez man.

[dogfish]

Yeah, and I am sure you attended all his games and were in the booth with a video camera recording his every move.



wait, are you trying to imply that boss works for the patriots?

[eessydo]

lol... do you really think that was Clady's only off game. I'm not picking on him for his off game.

I really doubt that many people on this board has seen him play. They have to base their opinion on what the scouts and media say about him. Most "experts" list Clady as the #2 tackle in the draft. Everyone sees that and thinks... wow he must be good. Then they look at his size and day... well I like his size too. Now this is all they really have to go by when looking at offensive line prospects. You can look at runningbacks, QB's and all that all day. It is easy to find this stuff on Youtube and all over the place. You can't quite do that with Offensive linemen. Anyone who has watched Boise State can't honestly say that Ryan Clady is a top 12 prospect! He is a good player with potential. He is very raw and needs work. He does have good size. But if you watch him play you will see exactly why he is considered a raw prospect. Denver already selected a LT that fits this very discription... Ryan Harris. So why on earth would Denver draft another raw LT prospect the very next season?

Boss, I would say we are formulating our opinions based on three things.\

1. What games we did watch. I will admittedly say I did not watch every game but caught as many as I possibly could given I live in Georgia

2. Seen what footage we could glean off of sources such as Youtube and scouting sites

3. AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE....Listening to and reading information posted by PAID PROFESSIONALS GIVE THEIR OPINIONS ON PLAYERS and their relative value against team need.

I would say that would be the primary means of information gathering for most of us. So again, CONSENSUS PAID PROFESSIONAL OPINION seems to be completely against you. This isn't just me making the case because someone said he is the second best tackle in the draft, these are people with several years of evaluation under their belt determining these players value.

You are not a PAID PROFESSIONAL.

Is that so hard to process?

[Lonestar]

At what pick? It really matters what pick we are at. I'm really hopeful we can trade back... because besides running back which isn't really a position of need I don't see much that will slide our way at the 12 spot worth taking. It's a pretty bad spot to be in this years draft.

to bad mikey had to prove his manhood in the last few games.. We could have been in contention for some real talent..

[Drill-N-Fill]

Round 1
With the 1st pick the Miami Dolphins select CHRIS LONG, DE, VIRGINA
With the 2nd pick the St Louis Rams select GLENN DORSEY, DT, LSU
With the 3rd pick the Kansas City Chiefs select JAKE LONG, OT, MICHIGAN
With the 4th pick the Atlanta Falcons select MATT RYAN, QB, BOSTON COLLEGE
With the 5th pick the Oakland Raiders select SEDRICK ELLIS, DT, USC
With the 6th pick the New York Jets select DARREN MCFADDEN, RB, ARKANSAS
With the 7th pick the New England Patriots select VERNON GHOLSTON, DE, OHIO ST
With the 8th pick the Baltimore Ravens select BRIAN BROHM, QB, LOUISVILLE
With the 9th pick the Cincinnati Bengals select RYAN CLADY, OT, BOISE ST
With the 10th pick the New Orleans Saints select KENNY PHILLIPS, S, MIAMI
With the 11th pick the Buffalo Bills select AQIB TALIB, CB, KANSAS
With the 12th pick the Denver Broncos select KEITH RIVERS, LB, USC
With the 13th pick the Carolina Panthers select RASHARD MENDENHALL, RB, ILLINOIS
With the 14th pick the Chicago Bears select JEFF OTAH, OT, PITTSBURGH
With the 15th pick the Detroit Lions select JONATHAN STEWART, RB, OREGON
With the 16th pick the Arizona Cardinals select DERRICK HARVEY, DE, FLORIDA
With the 17th pick the Minnesota Vikings select MALCOLM KELLY, WR, OKLAHOMA
With the 18th pick the Houston Texans select RAY RICE, RB, RUTGERS
With the 19th pick the Philadelphia Eagles select DESEAN JACKSON, WR, CALIFORNIA
With the 20th pick the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select LEODIS McKELVIN, CB, TROY
With the 21st pick the Washington Redskins select CALAIS CAMPBELL, DE, MIAMI
With the 22nd pick the Dallas Cowboys select MIKE JENKINS, CB, SOUTH FLORIDA
With the 23rd pick the Pittsburgh Steelers select DOMNIQUE RODGERS-CROMARTIE, CB, TENNESSEE ST.
With the 24th pick the Tennessee Titans select LIMAS SWEED, WR, TEXAS
With the 25th pick the Seattle Seahawks select CHRIS WILLIAMS, OT, VANDERBILT
With the 26th pick the Jacksonville Jaguars select JAMES HARDY, WR, INDIANA
With the 27th pick the San Diego Chargers select GOSDER CHERILUS, OT, BOSTON COLLEGE
With the 28th pick the Dallas Cowboys select FELIX JONES, RB, ARKANSAS
With the 29th pick the San Fransisco 49ers select QUENTIN GROVES, DE/OLB, AUBURN
With the 30th pick the Green Bay Packers select REGGIE SMITH, CB, OKLAHOMA
With the 31st pick the New England Patriots select...No selection because of cheating.
With the 32nd pick the New York Giants select DAN CONNOR, LB, PENN STATE


Round 2
With the 1st pick in the 2nd round the Miami Dolphins select FRED DAVIS, TE, USC
With the 2nd pick in the 2nd round the St Louis Rams select SAM BAKER, OT, USC
With the 3rd pick in the 2nd round the Oakland Raiders select MARIO MANNINGHAM, WR, MICHIGAN
With the 4th pick in the 2nd round the Kansas City Chiefs select ANDRE WOODSON, QB, KENTUCKY
With the 5th pick in the 2nd round the Atlanta Falcons select ANTHONY COLLINS, OT, KANSAS
With the 6th pick in the 2nd round the New York Jets select PHILLIP MERLING, DE, CLEMSON
With the 7th pick in the 2nd round the Baltimore Ravens select PATRICK LEE, CB, AUBURN
With the 8th pick in the 2nd round the San Francisco 49ers select EARLY DOUCET, WR, LSU
With the 9th pick in the 2nd round the New Orleans Saints select CURTIS LOFTON, MLB, OKLAHOMA
With the 10th pick in the 2nd round the the Buffalo Bills select PAT SIMS, DT, AUBURN
With the 11th pick in the 2nd round the Denver Broncos select KENTWAN BALMER, DT, NORTH CAROLINA
With the 12th pick in the 2nd round the Carolina Panthers select JOE FLACCO, QB, DELAWARE
With the 13th pick in the 2nd round the Chicago Bears select CHAD HENNE, QB, MICHIGAN
With the 14th pick in the 2nd round the Detroit Lions select BRANDEN ALBERT, OG, VIRGINIA
With the 15th pick in the 2nd round the Cincinnati Bengals select ALI HIGHSMITH, LB, LSU
With the 16th pick in the 2nd round the Minnesota Vikings select LAWRENCE JACKSON, DE, USC
With the 17th pick in the 2nd round the Atlanta Falcons select CHRIS JOHNSON, RB, ECU
With the 18th pick in the 2nd round the Philadelphia Eagles select CHARLES GODFREY, CB, IOWA
With the 19th pick in the 2nd round the Arizona Cardinals select ANTOINE CASON, CB, ARIZONA
With the 20th pick the Washington Redskins select DEVIN THOMAS, WR, MICHIGAN STATE
With the 21st pick in the 2nd round the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select JOHN CARLSON, TE, NOTRE DAME
With the 22nd pick in the 2nd round the Pittsburgh Steelers select CHILO RACHAL, OG, USC
With the 23rd pick in the 2nd round the Tennessee Titans select MARTELLUS BENNETT, TE, TEXAS A&M
With the 24th pick in the 2nd round the Seattle Seahawks select SIMEON CASTILLE, S, ALABAMA
With the 25th pick in the 2nd round the Cleveland Browns select JEROD MAYO, LB, TENNESSEE
With the 26th pick in the 2nd round the Miami Dolphins select CARL NICKS, OT, NEBRASKA
With the 27th pick in the 2nd round the Jacksonville Jaguars select CHRIS ELLIS, DE, VIRGINIA TECH

[Drill-N-Fill]

Ryan Clady
Height: 6-6 | Weight: 317 | 40-Time: 5.25

Official Bio

Strengths:
Has excellent size and a big frame with long arms...A fantastic athlete...Very light on his feet...An outstanding pass blocker...Real quick and agile..Great mobility and range...Excellent balance...Is a natural knee bender...A hard worker with a terrific motor...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Adequate strength...Adjusts well and never seems to panic....Can fit in a zone or man blocking scheme...Still has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Plays too high at times and need to use better leverage...Gets the job done as a run blocker but is not necessarily dominant...Has to refine his technique and work on mastering the nuances of the position...He isn't overly powerful at the point of attack and can get pushed back...He must continue strengthening his lower body.

Notes:
Redshirted in '04 and then started the next three seasons...Played right tackle as a redshirt frosh and then made a seamless transition to the left side when Daryn Colledge moved on to the pros...Has a rare blend of size and athleticism and was born to protect the quarterbacks blind side (::::cough cough::::)...Has all the physical tools you look for and he's the best pure left tackle prospect in this draft...A sure-fire Top 10-15 pick.

[Lancane]

Rashard Mendenhall for 1200 please! :beer:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I have no issue w/ Clady per se, but I don't want him at 12. As Boss already said...we have that guy in Harris. One of our biggest issues was short yardage/goalline rushing. This isn't the guy to fix that. Clady may be the #2 OT, but the gap between he and Jake Long is MASSIVE compared to the gap among Clady and the likes of Otah, Cherilus, Williams and a few others. I personally feel Otah is a better fit for us given our current concerns about the OLine. Again though...not at 12. Hell...Cherilus or Williams may even be there for us in round 2.

So that leads to what we DO do at #12. Do we trade back? I'm game, but we need a partner. Do we fill a different need? Rivers and Connor could definitely help at OLB, BUT given the depth in this draft at LB, we may as well wait on a LB. Do we go RB? SUPER value at 12 as far as talent goes, but we have a history of getting successful RBs later and we still have Henry getting paid quite well to be in Denver. Do we reach for a DT because the experts say Balmer is climbing the charts? Do we take a Safety like Phillips? 1 month ago, he wasn't making it out of the top 10-12. Now, without any more games being played...he is a late first rounder...says the paid experts.

Here is the thing about the paid experts. They only get paid if people want to read what they have to say. If they say the same thing every week...people stop paying. So that leads to the questions...IS Clady truly the #2 OT, or is it simply that way for this month? Is Kenny Phillips really dropping bigtime...or do these "experts" need to mix things up to sell magazines and super secret insider subscriptions?

But I digress...I personally want Kenny Phillips or Dan Connor. Then again, I played S and OLB in high school and usually tend to gravitate toward those positions. Atwater is my fav Bronco of all time and I am growing impatient for a player of his stature to return to the Denver secondary who can be called a Bronco (Let's be real...Lynch is a Buccaneer). I would LOVE to see Stewart or Mendenhall in a Denver uni. I seriously don't think Shanny goes OT as he has pledged his love (and a day 1 pick) to Harris. But I'd be OK if we did get a OT...but not at 12.

Unfortunately, as much as I like to think I do, I don't have the answer as to what is best. I just know what I believe is the right way to fix this team...and that is draft the biggest potential playmaker at any position at 12 IF WE CAN'T LAND ELLIS OR DORSEY...be it Phillips, Mendenhall, Stewart or even Limas Sweed. Trade Foxxy to Dallas for Carpenter to lock down one side at OLB and sign one of the handful of solid DTs currently on the trade/FA market...Rod Coleman, Rogers, Darwin Walker, etc. This thing won't get fixed in 1 draft, but we can take big steps this offseason to get it fixed. That's why I mention even Sweed. We WILL need a WR at some point in the very near future, and rather than reach for a more seemingly immediate need at 1 spot, I'd like to complete that position on our team for 5 years or so.

[dogfish]

i really don't understand this "clady is the same player as harris" talk. . . the most glaringly obvious difference is that clady has an inch and twenty pounds on harris (and yes, size does matter in the trenches, though i'm certainly not suggesting that it's everything) while still being light on his feet. . . harris' frame may not be maxed out at 300, but it's hard to think he's going to get much bigger when he reportedly had serious problems maintaining his weight in college-- besides which, more weight isn't good for guys with back problems. . . OTOH, draftscout.com claims that clady may actually be playing too light for his frame at 320, and speculates that he could improve his drive blocking by adding 15-20 pounds and not lose significant quickness. . .

also, harris was a much more polished product coming out of college-- he started every game in which he appeared (45) over a four year career (all at OT), and started at OT for three years in high school as well. . . clady didn't even play OT until his second year of college, so he has three years there to harris' seven. . . not to mention, harris played in a pro style offense under charlie weiss the last few years-- he had a FAR greater opportunity to learn the position and refine his technique, yet he was still graded out two rounds below clady by most draftniks. . . clady's ultimate ceiling is much higher than harris. . .

most importantly IMO, i have yet to read a scouting report that calls clady soft, which was pretty much the universal opinion of harris when he came out. . . also, clady isn't coming off surgery for chronic back problems. . . if you don't like him at 12-- or just plain don't like him at all-- that's fine, but i'm not buying that he's the same player as harris. . .

[Drill-N-Fill]

I'm all for Clady or Jonathan Stewart. I would love to see a featured back, and he would def help out with the tough yards we always seem to fail with.

Picking 12 does throw you in the middle of nowhere. But you gotta love Shanny for not being conservative and trading up/down. Although it hurt us last year...def paid off the year before that.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

i really don't understand this "clady is the same player as harris" talk. . . the most glaringly obvious difference is that clady has an inch and twenty pounds on harris (and yes, size does matter in the trenches, though i'm certainly not suggesting that it's everything) while still being light on his feet. . . harris' frame may not be maxed out at 300, but it's hard to think he's going to get much bigger when he reportedly had serious problems maintaining his weight in college-- besides which, more weight isn't good for guys with back problems. . . OTOH, draftscout.com claims that clady may actually be playing too light for his frame at 320, and speculates that he could improve his drive blocking by adding 15-20 pounds and not lose significant quickness. . .

also, harris was a much more polished product coming out of college-- he started every game in which he appeared (45) over a four year career (all at OT), and started at OT for three years in high school as well. . . clady didn't even play OT until his second year of college, so he has three years there to harris' seven. . . not to mention, harris played in a pro style offense under charlie weiss the last few years-- he had a FAR greater opportunity to learn the position and refine his technique, yet he was still graded out two rounds below clady by most draftniks. . . clady's ultimate ceiling is much higher than harris. . .

most importantly IMO, i have yet to read a scouting report that calls clady soft, which was pretty much the universal opinion of harris when he came out. . . also, clady isn't coming off surgery for chronic back problems. . . if you don't like him at 12-- or just plain don't like him at all-- that's fine, but i'm not buying that he's the same player as harris. . .

I for one, do not like Harris as a prospect, but the similarities are there. He doesn't push the pile...not even in the WAC. Even though a few here think level of competition does not matter, if DOES matter if yer not dominating said competition and expect to be picked at #12 overall. He is athletic, but as you said...less polished. We don't know ehere his celing is. It may be beyond that of Harris, but it may not. I can only assess what is true now. Weight aside, they are both athletic, solid pass blockers who can't push a pile. We already have Harris. Although I'm personally not sold, Shanny seems to be. I have a feeling we're gonna see what the boy can do.

[eessydo]

Here is the thing about the paid experts. They only get paid if people want to read what they have to say. If they say the same thing every week...people stop paying.

Just to clarify, when I am speaking of paid experts I am not referring to columnists in major sports media outlets, I am referring to evaluators that have had experience evaluating players for professional sports.

They don't get paid to sell magazines, they get paid to be right!

Columnists condense this professional information and try to place it side by side with inside team sources leaking information about the direction/need of a team. That is what produces our mock drafts and leads to these wonderful discussions.

[Nomad]

I'd like to see the o-line and d-line being concentrated on then LBs. But especially the o-line because I want Cutler on his feet more and a little less on his back. Fix the foundations and everything else will fall into place.

[eessydo]

I'd like to see the o-line and d-line being concentrated on then LBs. But especially the o-line because I want Cutler on his feet more and a little less on his back. Fix the foundations and everything else will fall into place.

agreed. Besides, other than Maurice Jones Drew, who no one had pegged as an NFL RB that could carry a load, what PAC 10 RB has been worth his salt in the last few years? (and please don't say reggie bush, and marshawn lynch needs another year before I give him a golden star sticker)

PAC 10 RB's are overrated. They are still riding the reputation of OJ, Charlie White, and Marcus Allen.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

agreed. Besides, other than Maurice Jones Drew, who no one had pegged as an NFL RB that could carry a load, what PAC 10 RB has been worth his salt in the last few years? (and please don't say reggie bush, and marshawn lynch needs another year before I give him a golden star sticker)

PAC 10 RB's are overrated. They are still riding the reputation of OJ, Charlie White, and Marcus Allen.

well...since you made the rules about how we can answer...I guess yer 100% correct.

Seriously...how can you ask a question about "the last few years" and not let the respondent include the most recent rookie class?

[dogfish]

agreed. Besides, other than Maurice Jones Drew, who no one had pegged as an NFL RB that could carry a load, what PAC 10 RB has been worth his salt in the last few years? (and please don't say reggie bush, and marshawn lynch needs another year before I give him a golden star sticker)

PAC 10 RB's are overrated. They are still riding the reputation of OJ, Charlie White, and Marcus Allen.

okay, i've just gotta play devil's advocate here, even though clady is high on my wish list. . .


according to your reasoning here, he must be a bad pick-- besaides mark schlereth a while back, what WAC school has EVER produced a quality NFL O-lineman, let alone recently? remember, you can't use sampson satele, since rookies are off-limits. . . . that leaves you with a couple of system guys you have given the colts a few decent years, and that's it. . . . but at least no one can say that WAC OLs are over-rated, since they have no reputation to begin with. . . .


if a guy can play he can play, regardless of where he played his college ball. . . . vandy doesn't exactly have a rich tradition of producing all-pro QBs, anyone think cutler was a bad pick? if guys like michael roos, dunta robinson and demarcus ware can be successful in the NFL, so can a lineman from boise state or a RB from oregon. . . . just as long as it's not a WR from florida. . . . :eek: