Drafting Jared Allen: Broncos Defensive End

[WARHORSE]

For all the hissing that goes on about the inability of the Denver Broncos to get pressure on opposing quarterbacks, one way to help that situation out is by bringing in a proven commodity.

First of all, do we want Jared Allen?.........um, heck yeah.

Second of all, are we willing to pay the price?

Thats the real question.

Denver would have to give up two first round draft selections, but in return they get a young, veteran player who led the league in sacks last season. Anyone predicting hes gonna do worse this year?

First thing Denver does is find out what Jared wants to be paid. Denver can set a price that will undoubtedly be easier for Denver to foot than KC.
Then, decide if we think having a premier defensive end is worth the money hes asking. If so, move forward.

Moving forward would first be to trade our number twelve draft pick away. We move down to the bottom of the first round, pick up an extra second and third, even a first next year. Then we give this years number one to KC, along with the lower pick next year in the first, (if we get one) or simply next years first as well, which will be around.......oh.......the 32nd pick.

We let those two picks be the required two first rounders that KC is alotted, and then ......TA-DA!



We have a pass rush we have wanted for eons, and CHamp and Bly just got nasty. Not only that, we have extra picks this year to boot, in order to take care of other needs.


What say you?

Draft Jared?:beer:

[BOSSHOGG30]

One thing we don't want to do is give KC more good draft picks. They are actually getting better with the young guys they are adding. We are better off letting them bring in and keep the veteran players they have been.

[WARHORSE]

One thing we don't want to do is give KC more good draft picks. They are actually getting better with the young guys they are adding. We are better off letting them bring in and keep the veteran players they have been.


Why not? They dont know what to do with them anyway, and if they had two first rounders this year, and two first rounders next year, they will have to pay them all inflated rookie salaries. Not to mention the fact that they'll all become free agents one on top of the other.

We could very well use our draft pick, and get nothing in return except a George Foster. Besides.....we still gather extra picks to use towards our own ends. We could even trade back into the first round with an extra second rounder.

At the same time, we just put a big hole in their defense.

We just took the best defensive end in the AFC West, and put him on our roster, while giving the Cheevies another draft need. How many picks before they hit on another defensive end? Not to mention, they wont get his prime years of play, we will.

I think its something to seriously consider.

[BroncoJoe]

cswil is going to have a heart-attack when he reads this.

[BeefStew25]

War: No drugs. You and Britney need help.

[ikillz0mbies]

As good as it sounds to have Jared Allen as a Bronco because of what he can do for the defense, its pretty much giving the Chiefs more arsenal, even if it is draft picks. You don't who the Chiefs will draft. Hell, they could end up drafting some stud who the Broncos could miss out on. Basically what I'm saying is that, I'm not for trading within the division. Mainly because to get to the Super Bowl, you need to get in the playoffs, to 100% secure a spot in the playoffs, you need to win the division. Or anything that helps division rivals.

[atwater27]

I'm with ya war. Your scenario seems sound.

[WARHORSE]

As good as it sounds to have Jared Allen as a Bronco because of what he can do for the defense, its pretty much giving the Chiefs more arsenal, even if it is draft picks. You don't who the Chiefs will draft. Hell, they could end up drafting some stud who the Broncos could miss out on. Basically what I'm saying is that, I'm not for trading within the division. Mainly because to get to the Super Bowl, you need to get in the playoffs, to 100% secure a spot in the playoffs, you need to win the division. Or anything that helps division rivals.


To be honest, I'll never understand the 'missing out' on a stud in the draft part. You dont know what youre going to get in the draft.

Besides, at number 12 in the draft, we wouldnt have to give up two draft picks. We would only have to give up one- the 12th.

The value of the 12th pick is two number ones, and you can get that out of the 12th pick by trading down.

You go to the Cowboys, who want to go up anyway at number 28. It would take their first next year to get that from us. OR it would take a second this year, a third and a second next year. It still adds up to 2 first round picks in the lower part of the draft, which are valued at about 600 pts in the draft table.

So we are getting a premier pass rusher in the league, one who led the league in sacks..................in two less games. If he played, the odds are he has two more sacks, putting him at 17.5 sacks on the year. Not only that, he stops the run. On top of that, it makes him a premier pass rusher in the league.

That being mind you, a proven player, not a rookie in which you dont know what youre getting.

The number one priority in Denver is still a pass rush, in case anyone has forgotten. You can plug the DT in there, but if we still cant put pressure on opposing QBs, it only adds up to pain and frustration in the AFC.

Dont let Denvers inablility to stop the run get you focused off our real need. We will have the rest of the draft to use on DTs.

[WARHORSE]

War: No drugs. You and Britney need help.


:salute:That sounds pretty funny comin from you Beef.:salute:

:salute:I salute you.:salute:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Yep, the last thing we need on this team is another headcase that we have to give picks up to get.

[WARHORSE]

Yep, the last thing we need on this team is another headcase that we have to give picks up to get.

Head case that puts pressure on Peyton and Brady that is.

YUP.

I'd give up the 12th for that.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well, obvious you have messed up priorities.

[WARHORSE]

I'm with ya war. Your scenario seems sound.

Well, its a way to a pass rush anyways, huh?

Jared, Moss, Dumerville, Crowder, Thomas.....Ekuban?

Sounds alot better to me than Moss, Dumerville, Crowder, Thomas Ekuban and Engleberger. Even if you added another DT........since we arent gettin Ellis or Dorsey, I dont see one making more of an impact that Thomas did last year.

Bring me in the corn fed kid from KC, Dui's and all.

He led the league in sacks in his fourth year in 14 games, and also had 10.....count em........10 passes defensed for the second year straight.

And did I mention he stops the run?

[WARHORSE]

By the way, did I mention that four of his 10 passes defensed, were against a certain Peyton Manning?

[shank]

i'm trying to think of an idea i dislike more...

[WARHORSE]

i'm trying to think of an idea i dislike more...


LOL

[WARHORSE]

You only have to go back to the superbowl to understand why we need a pass rush here in the AFC.

[shank]

You only have to go back to the superbowl to understand why we need a pass rush here in the AFC.

bringing in kris jenkins/shaun rogers AND corey williams would cost less overall (in money/picks combined), and as far as i'm concerned improve our defense far more than allen could ever do.

[WARHORSE]

bringing in kris jenkins/shaun rogers AND corey williams would cost less overall (in money/picks combined), and as far as i'm concerned improve our defense far more than allen could ever do.


I guess you could go that route. Jenkins and Rogers could be this years Adams and Kennedy.


I'll take the 25 yr old, 6' 6" 270 lb Allen, who with a little more leg strength could absolutely go commando on the league imo.

[ikillz0mbies]

To be honest, I'll never understand the 'missing out' on a stud in the draft part. You dont know what youre going to get in the draft.

Besides, at number 12 in the draft, we wouldnt have to give up two draft picks. We would only have to give up one- the 12th.

The value of the 12th pick is two number ones, and you can get that out of the 12th pick by trading down.

You go to the Cowboys, who want to go up anyway at number 28. It would take their first next year to get that from us. OR it would take a second this year, a third and a second next year. It still adds up to 2 first round picks in the lower part of the draft, which are valued at about 600 pts in the draft table.

So we are getting a premier pass rusher in the league, one who led the league in sacks..................in two less games. If he played, the odds are he has two more sacks, putting him at 17.5 sacks on the year. Not only that, he stops the run. On top of that, it makes him a premier pass rusher in the league.

That being mind you, a proven player, not a rookie in which you dont know what youre getting.

The number one priority in Denver is still a pass rush, in case anyone has forgotten. You can plug the DT in there, but if we still cant put pressure on opposing QBs, it only adds up to pain and frustration in the AFC.

Dont let Denvers inablility to stop the run get you focused off our real need. We will have the rest of the draft to use on DTs.

You got me there, great points. I'm all for the Broncos getting a premier pass rusher, I'm just debating whether the Broncos would be giving up too much.

[WARHORSE]

You got me there, great points. I'm all for the Broncos getting a premier pass rusher, I'm just debating whether the Broncos would be giving up too much.




When the Redkins were drafting 9th in 2005, and we were drafting 25th, it took a first, a third and a fourth to get that pick from us. That pick was 720 pts on the draft table. We ended up getting the 22nd pick, plus their third and fourth, which added up to 1100 pts. It could have easily been much worse for them, and I think the Broncos thought it would be since they were drafting 9th that year.

Well, GB, the Giants, SF and Dallas are all potential draft trade partners. They get our 12th pick. We get their first rounder this year, and their first rounder next year. That would be equal value. When accepting next years picks, most people have to give up more. So we are basically getting 600 pts in draft pts, by trading down. Thats equal to a late first rounder. That would give us three first rounders from which to give two to KC.

Even if we traded down, and got a second, a third and a second or third next year, we still are gaining the equivalent of a first round pick by trading down.

I dont see us with a draft pick under the 20s next year.......no way.

[WARHORSE]

Im repeating myself.

lol.....

[BOSSHOGG30]

Everyone keeps talking about trading back. You make it sound so simple... My first question is who will trade back and the 2nd one would be and for who? If someone is going to give up multiple good picks to move up to the 12th spot... it better be for someone really good. Who on earth will be there at 12 worth giving up half your draft for? Maybe if we were in the top 5 it would make some sense, but we are at 12.

[DallasChief]

I think this is an excellent idea.

I love Jared Allen but I would let him go for two first round picks. Package those picks with our own and we could get a top 5 pick for 3 straight years.

[slim]

I think this is an excellent idea.

I love Jared Allen but I would let him go for two first round picks. Package those picks with our own and we could get a top 5 pick for 3 straight years.

DB, I think you are confused. We would be the team acquiring JA. :coffee:

[Rex]

DB, I think you are confused. We would be the team acquiring JA. :coffee:

Umm, Mr. Fatass.....I think he clearly understands that. Now go eat a donut.

[slim]

Umm, Mr. Fatass.....I think he clearly understands that. Now go eat a donut.

I don't have any donuts :sad:

You do realize he is a bronco fan? Right?

[DallasChief]

DB, I think you are confused. We would be the team acquiring JA. :coffee:

Don't you have a couple of 1099s you need to key into Turbo Tax?

[slim]

Don't you have a couple of 1099s you need to key into Turbo Tax?

No, I don't use Turbo Tax. Actually, I don't really prepare many returns, either. :D

[Scarface]

I'm not giving up two 1st rounders and a ton of money for a drunk DE. No way. Reggie White or Bruce Smith in their prime, yeah I'd do it. But Jared Allen isn't worth all that.

[slim]

I'm not giving up two 1st rounders and a ton of money for a drunk DE. No way. Reggie White or Bruce Smith in their prime, yeah I'd do it. But Jared Allen isn't worth all that.

What he said.

This is crazy talk. :eek:

[DallasChief]

I don't have any donuts :sad:

You do realize he is a bronco fan? Right?


Please don't make me stick 15 Chiefs pics and logos in my sig because you keep calling me a Bronco fan.

TIA

[tubby]

Apparently the Maui Wowi is in season.

:salute:

[Rex]

BTW......Warhorse...

You are nuts. 2 1st round picks for Jared Allen? Only Niner would make that trade.

[mclark]

Didn't the Chiefs just franchise Allen? I think there's a rule against any team signing a franchised player to a long-term contract for that year. Chicago and San Francisco had worked out a trade for Lance Briggs last year but SF couldn't sign Briggs to a long-term contract because of the rule, so the trade fell through.

SHanny just talked about his commitment to rebuilding through the draft. If he made this kind of trade his commitment to the draft would be exploded.

[topscribe]

BTW......Warhorse...

You are nuts. 2 1st round picks for Jared Allen? Only Niner would make that trade.

The 'Skins might . . .

-----

[DallasChief]

Didn't the Chiefs just franchise Allen? I think there's a rule against any team signing a franchised player to a long-term contract for that year. Chicago and San Francisco had worked out a trade for Lance Briggs last year but SF couldn't sign Briggs to a long-term contract because of the rule, so the trade fell through.

The Chiefs have until a certain date, I think it's when training camp starts to sign Jared to a long term deal. If they can't, then he must play under the 1 year tender.

However, I'm not sure which tag the Chiefs used, but another team could sign Allen to a long term contract but they would have to compensate the Chiefs with two first round draft picks.

[topscribe]

The Chiefs have until a certain date, I think it's when training camp starts to sign Jared to a long term deal. If they can't, then he must play under the 1 year tender.

However, I'm not sure which tag the Chiefs used, but another team could sign Allen to a long term contract but they would have to compensate the Chiefs with two first round draft picks.

. . . in which case, the Chiefs might be hoping someone picks up Allen . . .

-----

[BOSSHOGG30]

I wonder if the Chiefs could tag Allen as a tightend and save a butt load of money since he did play TE a play or two last season? I'm sure the Ravens will tag Suggs at linebacker since it would save them money over tagging him as a defensive end.

[mclark]

Franchise tag

The franchise tag is a designation given to a player by a franchise that guarantees that player a contract the average of the five highest-paid players of that same position in the entire league, or 120% of the player's previous year's salary (whichever is greater) in return for retaining rights to that player for one year. An NFL franchise may only designate one player a year as having the franchise tag, and may designate the same player for consecutive years. This has caused some tension between some NFL franchise designees and their respective teams due to the fact that a player designated as a franchise player precludes that player from pursuing large signing bonuses that are common in unrestricted free agency, and also prevents a player from leaving the team, especially when the reasons for leaving are not necessarily financial. A team may, at their discretion, allow the franchise player to negotiate with other clubs, but if he signs with another club, the first club is entitled to two first round draft picks in compensation.

___
Thanks, Dallas Chief.

I think I'd say no to the deal for Allen for two first round picks.

[DallasChief]

. . . in which case, the Chiefs might be hoping someone picks up Allen . . .

-----

There are very few players in this league worth giving up two first round picks for. It would be a waste of time hoping.

[DallasChief]

I wonder if the Chiefs could tag Allen as a tightend and save a butt load of money since he did play TE a play or two last season? I'm sure the Ravens will tag Suggs at linebacker since it would save them money over tagging him as a defensive end.

Well, they drafted him for longsnapping. Maybe they could tag him as a longsnapper. :D

[BOSSHOGG30]

Well, they drafted him for longsnapping. Maybe they could tag him as a longsnapper. :D

How lucky did King Carl get on this guy then... longsnapping to star DE. He had no clue.

[DallasChief]

How lucky did King Carl get on this guy then... longsnapping to star DE. He had no clue.

Nobody did. Or he wouldn't have been there in the fourth. He's the Tom Brady of DE's. Minus all the Super Bowl rings. :D

[topscribe]

Nobody did. Or he wouldn't have been there in the fourth. He's the Tom Brady of DE's. Minus all the Super Bowl rings. :D

Looks like the Chiefs made the same kind of haul with Allen as Denver did with Marshall.

And maybe, just maybe, Thomas.

-----

[Rex]

Nobody did. Or he wouldn't have been there in the fourth. He's the Tom Brady of DE's. Minus all the Super Bowl rings. :D

Personal baggage dropped his stock also.

[Astrass]

Never going to happen. It would be nice to see him in a Bronco uni but it's not even slightly realistic.

[WARHORSE]

Everyone keeps talking about trading back. You make it sound so simple... My first question is who will trade back and the 2nd one would be and for who? If someone is going to give up multiple good picks to move up to the 12th spot... it better be for someone really good. Who on earth will be there at 12 worth giving up half your draft for? Maybe if we were in the top 5 it would make some sense, but we are at 12.

Easy.......the Cowboys.

They dont need a whole bunch of players, theyre going to look for a couple guys who can come in and contribute. If theyre really hot on McFadden, then having the 22nd and the 12th pick in the draft serves their purposes way more than the 22nd and the 28th.

Also, SF has a ton of cap space, and got an impact player in Willis last year at the top of the draft. There are teams that will want to trade up...guaranteed. Finding the right situation wont matter, cause you can still get 1200 pts out of the pick, and actually more if you accept selections from next year.

[WARHORSE]

Progress in Allen negotiations may be problem with Peterson





Edwards certain Allen will play for Chiefs this season (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/497064.html)
Keeping Carl and moving forward could prove to be an impossible task for Clark Hunt, Herm Edwards and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Exhibit A: The Jared Allen negotiations.
When I ran into Allen and his agent, Ken Harris, at the Super Bowl in Phoenix, they were resigned to the fact that The Artist Formerly Known as King Carl would slap the franchise tag on Allen.
They didn’t expect the Chiefs to enter into serious negotiations with the league’s best defensive end and one of its five best defenders in 2007.
Their expectations were met on Monday when the Chiefs franchised Allen, guaranteeing Allen a 2008 salary of $8.9 million but avoiding — for now — giving him a Dwight Freeney-like contract with close to $30 million in guaranteed bonuses and salary.
To be fair, Carl Peterson previously franchised Tony Gonzalez and Will Shields, then rewarded them with long-term deals. But Gonzalez and Shields never disliked and distrusted Peterson the way Allen does.
Allen believes that Peterson broke promises made in private meetings, and that he then made matters worse by labeling Allen as “at-risk” in comments to the media.
Allen weakened his contract leverage in accumulating two drinking-and-driving arrests and a subsequent 2007 two-game suspension. Peterson’s at-risk claim insinuates that he’s a bit reluctant to give Allen a huge contract until he’s comfortable that Allen has matured. Harris counters that standard contract language for NFL players, particularly players in the league’s substance-abuse program, provides the Chiefs more than enough protection if Allen gets in more trouble.
So what is really holding up these negotiations besides The Artist Formerly Known as King Carl’s usual indecision, bully tactics and poor people skills?
It’s a lack of credibility.
When it comes to handing players large sums of guaranteed money and what those players gave the Chiefs after getting it, Peterson’s track record has been a bit shaky in recent years. Right now, the Hunts would be justified in having buyer’s remorse from Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Kendrell Bell, Patrick Surtain and Ty Law. You could make an argument to put Trent Green on the list, too. The Chiefs paid Green a lot of money for zero playoff victories.
Nope. Peterson is a brilliant bargain shopper. Take him to Wal-Mart and he’ll come home with a Willie Roaf and a before-the-big-contract Priest Holmes. But when the Hunts have loaned him a credit card and sent him to shop at Saks, Peterson usually brings back a Ty Law knockoff that looks like the real thing and plays like Carlton Gray.
Does Peterson have the necessary juice to get Allen a market-value contract?
Let’s be clear: Allen’s on-field performance in his first four years warrants a Freeney-level contract.
Even with Allen’s baggage, most NFL franchises would be negotiating passionately to retain him. Yeah, the Patriots, Colts or Giants might momentarily hit Allen with the franchise tag while they figured out how to make the numbers work beneath the cap. But they would do it in cooperation with the player.
Allen and Peterson haven’t been cooperating in more than a year. It’s not healthy. Allen is Kansas City’s best player. The Patriots don’t publicly feud with Tom Brady. Yeah, the Giants survived an offseason contract clash with Michael Strahan, an aging, fading star, and won the Super Bowl.
But Allen is in his prime, and his dispute is a continuation of a troubling pattern.
This is what’s so maddening about the Chiefs under the direction of The Artist Formerly Known as King Carl. They rarely get a major deal done without bloodshed or at least threats of bloodshed.
Good teams identify a handful of key players, peg them as franchise pillars, cultivate them as leaders, put them in the loop on the inner workings of the team and treat them relatively well at contract time. The Chiefs really haven’t had that since Marty Schottenheimer was coach and Derrick Thomas, Marcus Allen, Tim Grunhard and Dave Szott formed the foundation of the team.
I’m not sure the Chiefs can build that kind of foundation or that locker-room chemistry again with Peterson leading the charge. He doesn’t connect with players anymore. He puts too much hostility into the equation.
Good luck moving forward with Peterson hanging around Jared Allen’s neck.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Easy.......the Cowboys.

They dont need a whole bunch of players, theyre going to look for a couple guys who can come in and contribute. If theyre really hot on McFadden, then having the 22nd and the 12th pick in the draft serves their purposes way more than the 22nd and the 28th.

Also, SF has a ton of cap space, and got an impact player in Willis last year at the top of the draft. There are teams that will want to trade up...guaranteed. Finding the right situation wont matter, cause you can still get 1200 pts out of the pick, and actually more if you accept selections from next year.


Willis was the #1 linebacker prospect in the entire draft. He was also a Vernon Davis like player who was high on everyone's draft board. Last year we also had rare talents like Calvin Johnson, JeMarcus Russell and so on... this year we have 1 or 2 guys.... McFadden and Glenn Dorsey. Unlike last year there is less super star talent available in the 1st round. A lot of these guys are looked at as later 1st round talent and early 2nd round picks. Anyone willing to trade up in this draft is either desperate or reaching big time, unless it is for McFadden or Dorsey.

[WARHORSE]

There are very few players in this league worth giving up two first round picks for. It would be a waste of time hoping.


Really?

First of all, we would only lose our twelfth pick. We would not lose two firsts, and at a very minimum have the draft table value for our twelfth. All it takes is one team with a desire to move up to that slot from the bottom of the first.


Take a good look at the first round players who the Broncos have drafted over the last two decades. Now tell me its not worth giving up two picks around number 30 in the first for Jared Allen.

He is your BEST player, and I want him. :cool:

[WARHORSE]

How lucky did King Carl get on this guy then... longsnapping to star DE. He had no clue.


Look at that, we would gain a roster spot as well since we could get rid of Leach.

[WARHORSE]

Never going to happen. It would be nice to see him in a Bronco uni but it's not even slightly realistic.


I can see it now..............

We have a new longsnapper..........

[WARHORSE]

Willis was the #1 linebacker prospect in the entire draft. He was also a Vernon Davis like player who was high on everyone's draft board. Last year we also had rare talents like Calvin Johnson, JeMarcus Russell and so on... this year we have 1 or 2 guys.... McFadden and Glenn Dorsey. Unlike last year there is less super star talent available in the 1st round. A lot of these guys are looked at as later 1st round talent and early 2nd round picks. Anyone willing to trade up in this draft is either desperate or reaching big time, unless it is for McFadden or Dorsey.


Look at it this way......who are the Giants going to draft at 32 that will come in and help them? Unless they want a RB, theyre gonna need to move up.


And wait till the combine..............some superstars will be born.;)

[BOSSHOGG30]

Look at it this way......who are the Giants going to draft at 32 that will come in and help them? Unless they want a RB, theyre gonna need to move up.


And wait till the combine..............some superstars will be born.

Why would they jump up for a RB when this is one of the deepest RB drafts we've ever seen?

[WARHORSE]

Why would they jump up for a RB when this is one of the deepest RB drafts we've ever seen?


I said, unless they want a RB........which I dont think they do.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I said, unless they want a RB........which I dont think they do.

It would be sweet if you are right War..... you are one hard guy to figure out... last year you wanted to trade up to #1 or #2 overall so you can get Calvin Johnson... this year you want to trade back and get more picks.

[BeefStew25]

Ok, I am going to un-subscribe from this thread.

[WARHORSE]

It would be sweet if you are right War..... you are one hard guy to figure out... last year you wanted to trade up to #1 or #2 overall so you can get Calvin Johnson... this year you want to trade back and get more picks.

There are a whole lot of scenarios in the draft that would make me happy.

In all of them, we get impact players.:cool:

[WARHORSE]

Ok, I am going to un-subscribe from this thread.


K.

Nice avatar.

[Stargazer]

It's not just giving up two 1st round picks for Jared Allen. There's also a huge contract involved.

Pass on the trade idea and draft.

[shank]

i'm trying to think of an idea i dislike more...

i'm still thinking.

i thought licking rosie o' donnle's ass was it, but after much contemplation, it's only a close 2nd...

[atwater27]

oh dude. That is so many shades of death.

How bout Michael Moore's ass. After a month of eating pizza 3 times a day and not taking a shower.

[shank]

oh dude. That is so many shades of death.

How bout Michael Moore's ass. After a month of eating pizza 3 times a day and not taking a shower.

getting closer. we might have to let the patented applause-o-meter decide!



oh.. we don't have an applause-o-meter.


we already have 1st and 2nd round DEs and a proven pass rusher in Dumervil. Our DEs are not THE problem. there are cheaper ways to help this problem that also allow us to build other parts of our team beyond 1 position. I gotta say, even without the applause-o-meter, i gotta go with the propaganda-king... (theoretically of course, eff that)

[nevcraw]

Nobody did. Or he wouldn't have been there in the fourth. He's the Tom Brady of DE's. Minus all the Super Bowl rings. :D

But he does have the Mullet and the Blue Oyster Bar Stache. He wins Tom Loses.

[Skinny]

Remembering last year and the little bit of pass rush we did have, it was the lack of rush from the interior that was'nt there. Nothing against Allen his game speaks for itself but a solid contributing DT should be our #1 priority and our main focus if improving anything at all on Defense.

Kill two birds with one stone ... the interior pass rush and a run stopper ... we need both and we need it from a DT.

Ekuban was out for the year ... Moss was injured during the Pitt game which was the 6th game of the Season missing the final 10 games and Crowder did'nt play till the 5th game of the Season. That's alot of snaps missed by our DEs ... 30 games total.

Of the 33 sacks registered on the 2007 Season 6 total were from our interior DTs (possibly 7 with Patterson regeristering 1 but i can't rember if he was lined up at DE or DT. We'll give it to the DTs and say 7). 3 1/2 of those sacks were from Mallard who did'nt play till week 10. Corey Williams alone had 7 sacks on the year ...

Alot of that had to do with the Scheme at the time which changed but that's the #s ... it is what it is. And that's just pathetic, well below average compared to other DT dous around the League.

As we seen, you'll pay for that lack of interior rush with the QB being able to just sit still in the pocket and find his targets while the DEs have to rush the longer distance to get to the QB. When the DEs did get to the QB, the QB just stepped up in the pocket and delivered the ball.

Get the rush up the middle and force the QB outside the pocket and not only will that pressure push the QB into the DE, it forces the QB to bring his eyes down and not up the feild looking for the open guy and scrambling to get away from the rush and busting the designed play. QBs completion percentages go down and your opportunitys for turnovers and sacks go up.

A interior rush from the DTs would do wonders for this Defense, in every facet of the game on that side of the ball.

I like the DEs we have. Majority of them are young and fast with great motors. They just need to stay healthy and get on the feild and play. When their all able to do that, the pass rush will come from them ... and a presence in the middle will also improve that area and make the Defense as a whole, that much better.

[KCL]

Nobody did. Or he wouldn't have been there in the fourth. He's the Tom Brady of DE's. Minus all the Super Bowl rings. :D

Plus he scored 2 TDs last season....:lol:

[Bronco9798]

I think this is an excellent idea.

I love Jared Allen but I would let him go for two first round picks. Package those picks with our own and we could get a top 5 pick for 3 straight years.

It wouldn't matter. Carl would blow your picks. Re: Ryan Simms. It's the Chiefs D.C. I mean, come on man...:D

[Bronco9798]

BTW......Warhorse...

You are nuts. 2 1st round picks for Jared Allen? Only Niner would make that trade.

15.5 sacks in 14 games. People can say what they want about Jared Allen. I'd almost trade 2 first rounders for him. The NFL is a one year wander. You load up and go. You can always worry about the next year, the next year. I look at each season as what you can this year, not 5 years down the road. That's just me though. When you re-build,you give up for a few years.

Jared Allen would have a huge impact the next 4 to 5 years. You have no idea what you are getting with any draft pick. There are few huge impact players in their 1st year. Allen would give you an impact right now. Just saying.....

[frauschieze]

Look at that, we would gain a roster spot as well since we could get rid of Leach.

Blasphemy!



;)

[WARHORSE]

We can't trade down.

It was a solid idea though Warhorse. Jared Allen is a good one but the overall price is too high with the amount of holes we have.


We cant trade down?

How do you figure?

We would basically be using our 12th pick for him.

As for all the holes......what are the other draft picks we have for?

[WARHORSE]

Didn't the Chiefs just franchise Allen? I think there's a rule against any team signing a franchised player to a long-term contract for that year. Chicago and San Francisco had worked out a trade for Lance Briggs last year but SF couldn't sign Briggs to a long-term contract because of the rule, so the trade fell through.

SHanny just talked about his commitment to rebuilding through the draft. If he made this kind of trade his commitment to the draft would be exploded.


An exclusive franchise tag prevents other teams from negotiating with the tagged player. The non-exclusive tag doesnt.

Allen was tagged with the non-exclusive.

Every player tagged with the franchise tag this year has been tagged with the non-exclusive with the exception of the Ratturds corner Asumhoughehamama.

That means we have every right to negotiate a contract with Allen.

[WARHORSE]

Hey War, I don't know if you missed it or not but here you go...



If we're going to have to give up 2 firsts, it'll have to be our original picks. No funny business. :hand:


Not true my friend.

Everything I said is good to go.

Youre misreading. Its talking about us signing Jared to a contract, thereby owing two first rounders........but if we had already traded away our first rounder for this year, they can take subsequent picks in the second, third, etc for equal compensation, THIS year.......hence, the draft value chart.

[WARHORSE]

Remembering last year and the little bit of pass rush we did have, it was the lack of rush from the interior that was'nt there. Nothing against Allen his game speaks for itself but a solid contributing DT should be our #1 priority and our main focus if improving anything at all on Defense.

Kill two birds with one stone ... the interior pass rush and a run stopper ... we need both and we need it from a DT.

Ekuban was out for the year ... Moss was injured during the Pitt game which was the 6th game of the Season missing the final 10 games and Crowder did'nt play till the 5th game of the Season. That's alot of snaps missed by our DEs ... 30 games total.

Of the 33 sacks registered on the 2007 Season 6 total were from our interior DTs (possibly 7 with Patterson regeristering 1 but i can't rember if he was lined up at DE or DT. We'll give it to the DTs and say 7). 3 1/2 of those sacks were from Mallard who did'nt play till week 10. Corey Williams alone had 7 sacks on the year ...

Alot of that had to do with the Scheme at the time which changed but that's the #s ... it is what it is. And that's just pathetic, well below average compared to other DT dous around the League.

As we seen, you'll pay for that lack of interior rush with the QB being able to just sit still in the pocket and find his targets while the DEs have to rush the longer distance to get to the QB. When the DEs did get to the QB, the QB just stepped up in the pocket and delivered the ball.

Get the rush up the middle and force the QB outside the pocket and not only will that pressure push the QB into the DE, it forces the QB to bring his eyes down and not up the feild looking for the open guy and scrambling to get away from the rush and busting the designed play. QBs completion percentages go down and your opportunitys for turnovers and sacks go up.

A interior rush from the DTs would do wonders for this Defense, in every facet of the game on that side of the ball.

I like the DEs we have. Majority of them are young and fast with great motors. They just need to stay healthy and get on the feild and play. When their all able to do that, the pass rush will come from them ... and a presence in the middle will also improve that area and make the Defense as a whole, that much better.


I wouldnt mind that. Problem is, do you use this scenario for Haynesworth?

I pretty much agree with your reasoning, its sound.

However, I honestly think Crowder is in the mold of pass rushing DT just as much as all around DE. A little strength adding and he and Thomas can be devastating. I feel that good about them. Do we need another DT? Yep. But we're talking about a premier player in Allen. He is, bar none, the best player on the Chefs roster.

In all honesty, if we had a Haynesworth type at the other side of Thomas, the DEs we have would be even better, and the entire defense helped. Problem is, to me, Haynesworth is even more iffy in the off the field issues than Allen. Drinking and driving every kid does pretty much. Stomping the scalp off a helmetless player? Not everyday occurances.

This draft doesnt have a Haynesworth DT. Hes huge, as well as strong and dominating.

The pressure on Tom Brady came from the entire defensive front in the superbowl, but most definitely from the DEs primarily. A good rotation of nonstop pass rushing is gonna be key in stopping those guys if we want to get to the superbowl, and we cant wait long to find a great rusher. Our two corners are primed to be at their best now, and the window is closing fast, especially on Bly. Champ is not going to keep up his high level of play forever.

Pressure on the Qb.

WHether up the gut or from the outside, we need to hit the QBs hard. HARD.

[WARHORSE]

Blasphemy!



;)

Look at it this way Frau..........you not only will still have a longsnapper........now you'll have a 6' 6" 270 lb 25 yr old longsnapper who moonlights on kicking the teeth out Rivers, Bradys, Mannings, Russells, and Brodys mouths.:D

Id salute that!:salute:

[shank]

Not true my friend.

Everything I said is good to go.

Youre misreading. Its talking about us signing Jared to a contract, thereby owing two first rounders........but if we had already traded away our first rounder for this year, they can take subsequent picks in the second, third, etc for equal compensation, THIS year.......hence, the draft value chart.

pick #12 is worth far more than the entire rest of our draft value wise. giving up 2 firsts for allen (or the equivelant) is so beyond any reasonable value for a single player at a position that isn't even a need that it's ridiculous.

i understand boners warhorse, but you should probably put this one away.

[WARHORSE]

15.5 sacks in 14 games. People can say what they want about Jared Allen. I'd almost trade 2 first rounders for him. The NFL is a one year wander. You load up and go. You can always worry about the next year, the next year. I look at each season as what you can this year, not 5 years down the road. That's just me though. When you re-build,you give up for a few years.

Jared Allen would have a huge impact the next 4 to 5 years. You have no idea what you are getting with any draft pick. There are few huge impact players in their 1st year. Allen would give you an impact right now. Just saying.....

And Allens best years are ahead. As I stated, with the addition of some leg strength, I think Allen is going to be an absolute beast. One thing I know with him is this: he gives it ALL on every play. You cant teach that. Its just there. I love defensive players like that.


I wish everyone would remember Atlantas trade with us that sent our pick to the Jets for Abraham. The Falcons traded their 17th pick to us for our 29th, and gave that selection to the Jets in order to meet the requirements of a first rounder for Abraham.

That way, the Falcons were able to gain the draft table points from the 17th pick to the 29th in value. Its the same thing Im talking about here.

Some people think Im wanting to trade away our draft. Im only trading away our 12th pick. ONE PICK.

ONE PICK for the league leader in sacks (which he did in 14 games) in his prime.

Can anyone name a better player out of the draft to make an impact defensively?

[shank]

Some people think Im wanting to trade away our draft. Im only trading away our 12th pick. ONE PICK.

ONE PICK for the league leader in sacks (which he did in 14 games) in his prime.

Can anyone name a better player out of the draft to make an impact defensively?

it is NOT one pick. even if you find some GM who has taken enough pcp to give us (as you said) a late round first, a 2nd, a 3rd, and their next years first for our #12 overall, you are giving up 2 first rounders for allen in addition to his ginormous salary.

how are we more fit to purchase the services of allen than the chiefs? they were projected to have around 4 million dollars more cap room than us heading into this offseason...

[WARHORSE]

it is NOT one pick. even if you find some GM who has taken enough pcp to give us (as you said) a late round first, a 2nd, a 3rd, and their next years first for our #12 overall, you are giving up 2 first rounders for allen in addition to his ginormous salary.

how are we more fit to purchase the services of allen than the chiefs? they were projected to have around 4 million dollars more cap room than us heading into this offseason...


Thats not what I said, can you please read.

If the Giants agreed to trade up, it would cost them this years first, and next years from them. In that scenario, we give KC, both of those, thereby only costing us ONE first rounder: our twelve.

OR

They would give up this years first, at 32, their 2nd, 3rd, and a second or third from next year. Whatever adds up to 600, to 600 plus points depending on whether theyre real gungho, or we are. Either way, a low end first round draft pick comes in around 600 pts in value. Heres the tricky part: OUR TWELFTH PICK IS WORTH 1200 PTS. ALL YOU NEED IS ONE TEAM AT THE LOW END OF THE DRAFT WILLING TO MOVE UP, OR WANTING TO MOVE UP. HECK, CHANCES ARE SOME TEAMS HAVE ALREADY TRIED TO TALK TO DENVER ABOUT MOVING UP.

Ooops. Im shouting.

Anyway, we can gain an extra first rounder by trading down. It doesnt matter if it comes in the first package or the second.

For instance. Lets say the Giants dont want to give up next years number one pick, but are willing to give their second this year, their third, and a third next year. (It is a very real possibility to get MORE through the draft table charts due to the fact that next years picks are worth a little less.)

Anyway, so that means that they get our 12, we get their 32nd pick, their 64th in the second, their 96th in the third and their third next year.

That leaves us with only ONE first rounder to give KC at 32, right? So then we would have to give up next years number one in order to satisfy the requirements of two first round draft picks, right? Thereby, we lose two first rounders for Jared, right?

Wrong.

We can easily take the extra second rounder we got from the Giants, and use it in combination with our own second rounder, and move back into the first round. Our second rounder and theirs, added together equals 760 draft board pts, which is equal to the 23rd pick in the draft.

In that scenario, we would have lost what? Our first at 12, and our second at 42. But we still have both the third rounders from the Giants. So how much did we lose? NOT TWO FIRST ROUNDERS. Only ONE.

We would still have our first rounder next year, as well as picks in this draft at 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7. And next year would be 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

See how we avoid losing the picks?

Say no one wants to let us trade back into the first round, and KC gets our first rounder next year. What happens then?

That means we get Jared Allen, our second, their second, their third, both our fourths, both fifths and both sevens to address other needs.

And next year, we have 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

If we can move our second this year, we get a first back next year.

No matter what, by trading down, to the last few picks in the first, we avoid giving up two first rounders.:coffee:

In other words, if we had to pick at 12, and Jared Allen was there, would we take him?

You darn right we would.
--------------------------

As for being more able to pay for Allen over the Chefs.............not only does Denver have more than enough cap space, it has more resources than KC. It would not be an issue of them using all their cap space to buy Allen, vs us using all our cap space. We have enough to give multiple big contracts up. BIG contracts. If you understand how the cap works, you'll understand. IF you dont, you wont. But the difference in cap space is moot at this point.

Besides, we can insert a poison pill. Totally legal. In the contract, you stipulate that if you play more than five games in KC in a given year, your contract doubles. If KC matches the contract, it doubles as soon as he plays the fifth game for them at home.

[WARHORSE]

Abraham Is Happy After Trade to Falcons




By JUDY BATTISTA (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/judy_battista/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: March 22, 2006
In a stare down that took days to resolve, John Abraham got his wish yesterday. And so did the Jets (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/profootball/nationalfootballleague/newyorkjets/index.html?inline=nyt-org).
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/22/sports/22jets.184.jpg European Pressphoto Agency
John Abraham wanted to go to Atlanta because it is close to his South Carolina home.



The Jets, who designated Abraham as their franchise player in hopes of trading him, finally shipped the disgruntled defensive end to the Atlanta Falcons — where Abraham hoped he would land — in exchange for the 29th pick in the first round of April's draft.
The Falcons acquired that pick, and two middle-round picks, from the Denver Broncos (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/profootball/nationalfootballleague/denverbroncos/index.html?inline=nyt-org), in exchange for the Falcons' first-round pick, the 15th over all.
Abraham wanted to go to the Falcons in part because they are close to his home in South Carolina. Abraham and the Jets were engaged in a four-day stalemate when Abraham reached a contract agreement with the Falcons on Friday, but the Jets were not interested in what the Falcons had to offer in a trade: their second-round pick. The Jets, at the same time, reached a trade agreement with the Seattle Seahawks (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/profootball/nationalfootballleague/seattleseahawks/index.html?inline=nyt-org), who were willing to give up their first-round pick — the 31st over all — but they could not reach contract terms with Abraham, who had no interest in playing for Seattle.
Because the Jets owned the rights to Abraham, it was necessary for a team to meet both parties' interests: the long-term contract demands of Abraham, and the trade demands of the Jets. Finally, the Falcons realized yesterday that it would take a first-round pick to pry Abraham loose, and they made the three-way deal with the Broncos.
Abraham is expected to sign a six-year, $45 million deal with Atlanta that includes nearly $16 million in bonus money this season and $18 million in guaranteed money over the life of the contract. Abraham will earn $26 million in the first three years of the contract.
"Until he signs that contract, he's still keeping a stiff upper lip, he's had so many things happen to him," Abraham's agent, Tony Agnone, said in a telephone interview last night. "But he's happy as heck."
With two first-round selections — their original pick is the fourth over all — the Jets are in position to move higher in the draft, if they choose. Speculation has centered on the Jets' moving into the No. 2 spot, occupied by the New Orleans Saints (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/profootball/nationalfootballleague/neworleanssaints/index.html?inline=nyt-org), perhaps to select quarterback Matt Leinart. The Saints recently signed quarterback Drew Brees, taking them out of the hunt for a college quarterback.
Despite trading for Patrick Ramsey last week, the Jets are believed to be interested in one of the top quarterbacks in this year's draft as a future franchise quarterback. They are expected to visit with Leinart, who has expressed an interest in playing in New York, next month.
Both sides made it clear that Abraham would not return to the Jets. Abraham is a three-time Pro Bowl selection — he had 10½ sacks last season — but he was angered when the Jets put a franchise tag on him for the second year in a row. Abraham said the Jets had promised to negotiate a long-term deal with him after using the franchise tag on him last year.

[WARHORSE]

I actually liked the idea of giving up 1200 pts for a 25 year old proven pass rushing stud. One minor problem, we can't sign him from underneath the Chiefs like you're proposing. No coming up with a contract they can't match, and no giving those guys 2 (technical) first round picks... that loophole has already been closed. You can't just take advantage of the top heavy pts chart, trade down to the bottom of the first and use that pick as part of the tender. If we don't have our original picks or better then you are not allowed to come up with an offer sheet. You just don't qualify.

Once again quoted:


....and the deal with Abraham is not relevant because Abraham was TRADED. Not the same. The Chiefs will never in a million years trade Allen for a pick at the bottom of the first round, especially to a rival. The Chiefs would want to take us to the cleaners when it comes to a trade. They have total control in that situation.

I was talking about the value we would be getting back, whether we ended up with the extra first or not. We would have to have the Cowboys two selections in this draft, or use the extra picks from a trade with like say the Giants, to move our second back into the first round.

The two picks have to be in THIS draft, not allowed to next years, unless the Chefs accepted that, which they could.

The Jets FRANCHISED Abraham, and agreed to accept a single first rounder because Abraham didnt want to play for them, and they were tired of him complaining anyway.

As it is right now, Jared Allen is P.O.ed with Peterson for what he terms as a failure to carry out promises to him.


The easiest way to get Allen for our 12th pick, is to trade down to the Cowboys (if they would), it would take the 12th and a third.

The other alternative would be to trade down to 31, 32, or say 29, and then use the comp picks to go back into the first with those same area clubs.

Its a matter of finding trade partners for the 12th, not because this isnt possible.

[scott.475]

I would rather not have the double-row toothed, mullet wearing drunk on our team. I am tired of getting burned by other teams' troubled goods falling apart in Denver. The risk of him screwing up again and getting a long term suspension is too great.

Leave the mullet in KC.

[Lonestar]

not only no but hell no..

[Stargazer]

Posters love to come up with fantasy scenarios rather than build through the draft. Happens every year.

[WARHORSE]

Posters love to come up with fantasy scenarios rather than build through the draft. Happens every year.

If youre going to give big money to a rookie who has proven nothing.....yep..........count me as the guy who would rather give the money to a young, proven stud...........MULLET, bald, six fingered hands, and no teeth.......whatever. He hasnt killed anyone, beaten his woman in public, or set fire to his neighbors cat. He had a couple DUIs. Big deal. So have alot of Broncos players and every other young men.

I also dont subscribe to the 'build through the draft only' line of thinking.

I subscribe to the 'what wins us the superbowl this year' line of thinking.

Same mold as Bowlen.

[Lonestar]

If youre going to give big money to a rookie who has proven nothing.....yep..........count me as the guy who would rather give the money to a young, proven stud...........MULLET, bald, six fingered hands, and no teeth.......whatever. He hasnt killed anyone, beaten his woman in public, or set fire to his neighbors cat. He had a couple DUIs. Big deal. So have alot of Broncos players and every other young men.

I also dont subscribe to the 'build through the draft only' line of thinking.

I subscribe to the 'what wins us the superbowl this year' line of thinking.

Same mold as Bowlen.

Who has publicly stated they are changing the Broncos stance on building the team with draft choices and very few expensive FA's.

He has seen the UN-wisdom of mikey's old habits blowing the DAFT and having to spend big to plug all the holes via FA..

[shank]

you're a year late.

[WARHORSE]

Who has publicly stated they are changing the Broncos stance on building the team with draft choices and very few expensive FA's.

He has seen the UN-wisdom of mikey's old habits blowing the DAFT and having to spend big to plug all the holes via FA..


This isnt the same situation. This is a top of the line pass rusher at the age of 25.

Try to be objective.

[WARHORSE]

Jared Allen (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6885), DE, Kansas City





http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nfl/profiles/players/mugs/65x90/5651.jpg


This one definitely will get nasty. Chiefs president Carl Peterson has a long history of conducting bitter negotiations while Allen is an opinionated free spirit who's licked a drinking problem and earned his first Pro Bowl bid after registering a league-high 15.5 sacks.


It doesn't matter that Peterson has said he wants to keep Allen in Kansas City. The reality is that Allen demanded a trade last season when the Chiefs wouldn't hand him a long-term deal as a restricted free agent.

Now that he has more accomplishments -- and there has been little indication that the two sides have been talking about a multiyear contract since last winter -- it's likely Allen won't have many nice things to say about his boss this offseason.